I agree. But my personal favorite version of Batman is the run Grant Morrison did a while ago (when Dick Grayson took over after Bruce got sent back in time.) That shit was good.Jack the Potato said:
Why Do People Like Batman So Much?
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Ha you're welcome. The Avengers was a fantastic superhero movie as well. It was waaaaaay better than TDKR.Xdeser2 said:
Oh yea, definitely. Batman being light-hearted and laid back and Robin being serious and down-to-business? Good stuff. Kind of a shame it didn't stick, but ya know, god forbid they ever progress storylines.Kenbo Slice said:
For real. I've always liked the dynamic of Dick/Damian more than Bruce/Damian. Didn't on one occasion Damian said he liked Dick better? It's a shameJack the Potato said:
THEY KILLED DAMIAN!
Among other things, it's because he's probably alot more human than most other comic heroes. Punisher's human, of course, but he strikes me as a real vigilante, a merc with several chips on his shoulder no different than any soldier with a slew of weapons. Batman is a rich boy who doesn't waste our fucking time being a stupid rich boy. As Bruce Wayne, he's a billionaire with altruism in his blood, which we'd prefer more rich people were in real life. As Batman, he is many things.
He's a different style of crimefighter in that he's also classic for having been around a long time. You cross the masked mystery man who uses the shadows to his advantage with someone who has also studied hard in detective work and backs it up with resources to make it all work, so that people believe that he is maybe not even human, that he's all-seeing and terrifying to behold. Half of the dark knight's work is through criminals being too AFRAID to commit crimes, all by putting on a rubber suit and swinging around a bit. You can't get that intimidation with a gun-toter.
This is not to say that the Punisher is bad. He's clever, he's got the equipment, and he's frigging deadly. But to any person he meets, he seems human. Batman made his reputation making people think he was MORE than human. And then when they finally figured out that he was just a man, he caught them off guard by being a hella-smart man, a well-disciplined and trained man, a man who uses the unexpected quite alot... In short, Bruce was always ahead of the game. Maybe it's because he had money or that he had tragedy long before Punisher to set him on the path, but he got there first and he held the lead.
He's a different style of crimefighter in that he's also classic for having been around a long time. You cross the masked mystery man who uses the shadows to his advantage with someone who has also studied hard in detective work and backs it up with resources to make it all work, so that people believe that he is maybe not even human, that he's all-seeing and terrifying to behold. Half of the dark knight's work is through criminals being too AFRAID to commit crimes, all by putting on a rubber suit and swinging around a bit. You can't get that intimidation with a gun-toter.
This is not to say that the Punisher is bad. He's clever, he's got the equipment, and he's frigging deadly. But to any person he meets, he seems human. Batman made his reputation making people think he was MORE than human. And then when they finally figured out that he was just a man, he caught them off guard by being a hella-smart man, a well-disciplined and trained man, a man who uses the unexpected quite alot... In short, Bruce was always ahead of the game. Maybe it's because he had money or that he had tragedy long before Punisher to set him on the path, but he got there first and he held the lead.
.....I'm not sure if you know this, but one of the worst kept secrets in the DCU is that Batman is a massive twat. His worst enemy isn't the Joker, its the writers who treat him as if he's an infallible prophet and scion of awesomeness. Batman doesn't change to suit his world, the writers change the world to suit Batman and it's really obnoxious.HoneyVision said:
As for Superman, since when does being a nice guy make you a wanker? At what point did that transition occur?
Because he always hit the jackpot in every industry he is in compared to other super heroes. Think of videogames. We have Batman on NES. You know the one with the killer soundtrack and wall jumping. Then we have Superman...yeah.
Have you guys seen the Mask of Phantasm. It had one of the more disturbing scenes that didn't involve hardcore violence in a cartoon. It made me say out loud "Batman/Bruce Wayne is really batshit crazy". What is even more disturbing was that I could relate to him... scary.
Also the villains.
That was one of the few shows that got better as I grew older.
Have you guys seen the Mask of Phantasm. It had one of the more disturbing scenes that didn't involve hardcore violence in a cartoon. It made me say out loud "Batman/Bruce Wayne is really batshit crazy". What is even more disturbing was that I could relate to him... scary.
Also the villains.
That was one of the few shows that got better as I grew older.
You've got to be kidding me.
To start with, he's like most male aspirational role models rolled into one.
He's the worlds greatest detective. Sherlock Holmes with more technology.He goes up against far more powerful villains and holds his own in a universe with demigods because he's brilliant.
He's Zorro for the modern age, a masked man of the elite who is willing to risk everything on his insane skills to protect people.
He has more gadgets than James Bond, and more women fawning over him.
He is a ninja who goes through other ninjas like they were hardly there.
He fights modern day incarnation of Dick Tracy villians, who are all the more groteseque because Gotham is meant to be far more gritty and "real" than say Metropolis or Keystone City.
And beyond that he's a tragic character, not just because of his backstory but because nothing exists for him outside his war. Even Bruce Wayne is a mask to be donned and discarded if necessary. It's often said "so and so gives 100%" but thats BS, THIS is what giving 100% looks like. He's his own human sacrifice, everything in his life is fed into his war. It's awesome but also tragic.
Punisher is cool and all but is too obviously psychopathic to be truly interesting, he's very much a one dimensional character. Batman is deranged too but in a more subtle way. He has one foot in humanity, and one in The Batman. One foot in sanity and the other in madness.
Compare all this to Clark "I have 18 stupidly broken powers and my motivation is that I'm a nice guy and thus like helping people" Kent. The writers have to struggle to keep conflict interesting for characters like him, Green Lantern (I imagine things and there they are), Flash (I can run at the speed of light and holy hell thats overpowered) etc.
He's not a patriotic symbol or a tin soldier. He's a bitter, cynical, brilliant and ultimately heroic man. Nothing in DC comes close, nothing. Marvel is much better about slightly more complex characters.
To start with, he's like most male aspirational role models rolled into one.
He's the worlds greatest detective. Sherlock Holmes with more technology.He goes up against far more powerful villains and holds his own in a universe with demigods because he's brilliant.
He's Zorro for the modern age, a masked man of the elite who is willing to risk everything on his insane skills to protect people.
He has more gadgets than James Bond, and more women fawning over him.
He is a ninja who goes through other ninjas like they were hardly there.
He fights modern day incarnation of Dick Tracy villians, who are all the more groteseque because Gotham is meant to be far more gritty and "real" than say Metropolis or Keystone City.
And beyond that he's a tragic character, not just because of his backstory but because nothing exists for him outside his war. Even Bruce Wayne is a mask to be donned and discarded if necessary. It's often said "so and so gives 100%" but thats BS, THIS is what giving 100% looks like. He's his own human sacrifice, everything in his life is fed into his war. It's awesome but also tragic.
Punisher is cool and all but is too obviously psychopathic to be truly interesting, he's very much a one dimensional character. Batman is deranged too but in a more subtle way. He has one foot in humanity, and one in The Batman. One foot in sanity and the other in madness.
Compare all this to Clark "I have 18 stupidly broken powers and my motivation is that I'm a nice guy and thus like helping people" Kent. The writers have to struggle to keep conflict interesting for characters like him, Green Lantern (I imagine things and there they are), Flash (I can run at the speed of light and holy hell thats overpowered) etc.
He's not a patriotic symbol or a tin soldier. He's a bitter, cynical, brilliant and ultimately heroic man. Nothing in DC comes close, nothing. Marvel is much better about slightly more complex characters.
Going to preface this with, I have basic knowledge of marvel or DC hero's.hazabaza1 said:
Properly tragic backstory? Unlike superman's whole planet being blown up and losing his biological parents?
A normal guy who's only advantage is money? He is also a genius, master detective and can apparently learn at super human levels 'cos nobody can learn what he has so quickly.
From what I have heard, he hasn't really gone toe to toe with superman. Superman was holding back or batman had help of some kind ... toe to toe would be mean the two hero's going at it, no holds barred and no help, which would mean batman would be fucked.
As I said on a youtube video about this subject, batman would have to be able to block .50 cal bullets with his chin to stand a chance.
The reasons I have heard for how batman would win are just the biggest load of bull, "he would distract him" how long do you think it takes for superman to regain focus? Just goes to show that it doesn't matter how powerful you are, popularity is the strongest force in comics ... cavity plot insulation all the way!
He's an alright hero, definitely not my favorite by any means, and his popularity might have something to do with his recent track record in TV shows, movies and video games.
Remember The Dark Knight? Of course you do.
Remember Superman Returns? Sorry to remind you.
Remember The Dark Knight? Of course you do.
Remember Superman Returns? Sorry to remind you.
The only reason Batman wins is 'cos Batman is fan favorite. Superman has a suit that stop kryptonite from working, it can rip but that can hardly be a factor.hazabaza1 said:
Lets see ... bullets bounce of superman, so what is batman going to do that does more damage than a gun but isn't a gun 'cos batman doesn't use guns?
Superman has superhuman speed, so not only can he dodge every one of batman's attacks he could hit batman before he could blink.
Superman has superhuman strength, so he could punch through batman with a jab.
Superman has superhuman hearing and sight, so it's not like batman could sneak up on him.
Superman process information like a super computer and he battles the smartest guy in comics (Lex Luthor) so he has to be at least smart himself, so he might not be able to outwit batman but he isn't stupid.
So what's that? Lets be generous and say superman 4, batman 1? Lets be honest, the fight wouldn't go on long enough for wit or intelligence to be a factor ... it would start like any fighting game "ready? Fight" superman would fly across the room, falcon punch batman and batmans head would explode as his eye lids were only half closed.
But no, in comics superman is a tank made out of Papier-mâché (slow and weak but looks intimidating) and batman has to win 'cos everybody loves batman. Batman will have like 12 people helping him, kryponite out the ass and superman will walk headlong into a trap, totally oblivious to everything.
When you think about it, Batman actually plays into our desires for what we want the wealthy to be. He sinks millions of dollars into projects designed to help those who can't help themselves (not just make him more money or serve his public image), and he puts his life on the line all the time to help those people. Essentially, he plays into our desires that the wealthy would use their money to look out for more than just themselves, but that they would also look out for us. At the same time, for those who believe the wealthy do help us out enough, he's a symbol of how the wealthy do help us but that we just don't see it and/or understand how they are doing it.
Personally, though, I've always liked him for his interesting and tragic backstory, his potentially mentally unstable state yet incredibly powerful will, his insane determination, and his general method of dealing with villains (he's more of a martial-arts master detective rather than an unstoppable superhuman). In many ways, he's still a fragile person but one who overcomes that through his determination to turn his tragedy into motivation to help others. When you consider his more human method of dealing with villains, it just makes him better.
Personally, though, I've always liked him for his interesting and tragic backstory, his potentially mentally unstable state yet incredibly powerful will, his insane determination, and his general method of dealing with villains (he's more of a martial-arts master detective rather than an unstoppable superhuman). In many ways, he's still a fragile person but one who overcomes that through his determination to turn his tragedy into motivation to help others. When you consider his more human method of dealing with villains, it just makes him better.
Well, he's a bit like Light/L mixed with some Ichigo from Bleach. At least that's the examples that spring to mind right now, maybe there is something better. But anyway - brilliant like both of those, and a good fighter to boot. So there you go - its something along those lines.Angie7F said:
