No, it's been canned due to poor sales of previous games (read pirates).
Treblaine said:
Please, don't revel in spreading ignorance TELL ME HOW to find these DIRECT KEY INPUTS for each suit mode so I can set it as:
X = Max Strength
C = Max Armour
V = Max Speed
F = Invisible
Onesquillionbazillion times this, I got into Crysis Wars (multiplayer) for a while but had to retire due to a lack of the above. It felt so clunky being forced to use the radial menu to say the least. Allowing Quake (or any competitive shooter's) binding of weapons/skills to keys might have seen Crysis Wars take off in a big way.
Hey, Piracy isn't the problem. The easy to pirate Crysis 1 sold more than Crysis 2 even with 2/3 unpiratable console releases.
STALKER I think would have suffered just as much because it was expensive to make and not enough people wanted to play it, it just added insult to injury that a proportion who were interested did not pay for their copy. Remember, on console if you have only passing interest the unscrupulous pirate, but on console they rent or pre-own, either way no money to the developer.
They needed to find a way to either broaden the game's appeal to sell to more copies, or some way to get more funding from that passionate core of gamers. I don't know. Hat's or something. It worked for Valve.
Hey, Piracy isn't the problem. The easy to pirate Crysis 1 sold more than Crysis 2 even with 2/3 unpiratable console releases.
STALKER I think would have suffered just as much because it was expensive to make and not enough people wanted to play it, it just added insult to injury that a significantproportion who were interested did not pay for their copy. Remember, on console if you have only passing interest the unscrupulous pirate, but on console they rent or pre-own, either way no money to the developer.
It's sad when one of the PC's poster children (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.) cannot fund a sequel, if that's a wake up call I don't know what is. That said, I don't think Crysis 2 is comparable in the same way, it's a simplified and less impressive sequel to a PC exclusive. Also, console piracy is getting very visible with the biggest titles being pirated as heavily as their PC counterparts.
It's digressing from the original topic though, I haven't bought Crysis 2 nor do I plan to. I have Crysis + Warhead, and it's not really a "generic shooter" but it could be a lot better.
Sorry dude, but I disagree with a few things you said.
It seems you had trouble with the radial menu. In all honesty I thought it worked great, as long as you memorise where the different suit powers are on the menu. I don't agree with your hatred of having the weapon customisation on the radial menu, but I can see how it would annoy some people.
You mentioned how the radial menu obstructed your vision and stopped you from turning and aiming. I can only imagine this being an issue in combat. Even then it's not really a problem if you've memorised the different power locations, since you can then select your wanted suit power very quickly.
As for shortcuts, I never used them since the radial menu always worked great for me.
Ironically I had huge problems with the radial menu in Crysis 2. For some reason it always selected a different power from the one I had highlighted. Maybe it's just me.
As for the powers themselves, I never liked what Crytek did to the nanosuit in Crysis 2. Making speed/strength the default suit power felt stupid to me since it meant you were always using up energy. Speed is essentially sprint now, instead of 'really really fast' sprint like it was in Crysis, which means that no longer can you normally run out of a nasty situation if you've lost all your energy from being shot at(since being shot takes energy, even if you're not in armour mode). Throwing things in Crysis 2 is just pointless: for whatever reason, enemies aren't effected by thrown objects like they used to be. And holding down the attack key to power-throw an object takes more time than quickly switching modes and hitting the throw key. For me anyway.
It seems that you didn't care for the destructible environments in Crysis. Even if they didn't do much for you, don't you think it's better that they were there? Compared to Crysis 2 where the environment is mostly static. In Crysis you can destroy a bench with a rocket launcher. You can't in Crysis 2. The destruction may not serve much practical purpose (for some people) but at least it was there.
I respect your opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Anything that I haven't mentioned means that I either agree with you, or don't necessarily disagree with you.
The problem is muscle memory, all all the mouse-gesture interfaces not just in games but in interfaces for browsers it is done at 90-degrees segments and possibly further sub-divided into 45-degree segments. This 5-way 72-degree split defies ALL the muscle memory! It's needlessly different and all that is to put something in there that doesn't even need to be in there!!! Can't you recognise the failure in ergonomic design here?
"Making speed/strength the default suit power felt stupid to me since it meant you were always using up energy."
Well that is just plain ignorant as in the game the suit is NOT always using up energy in Crysis 2. Only when you ACTUALLY sprint or ACTUALLY PERFORM a strength move is energy used. The default movement speed is about the speed you move in Crysis-1-Max-Armour with sprint always held down. If you run out of energy in either Crysis 1 OR 2 you cannot sprint away at super speed. Super-sprint is slightly slower in Crysis 2 but is traded off by you can overall go further on its energy consumption rate. The speed was ultimately too fast in Crysis 1, you'd fly into object or enemies before they are actually rendered.
"And holding down the attack key to power-throw an object takes more time than quickly switching modes and hitting the throw key."
That defies the logic of its use in practice. Not only does it take time to switch modes (even if you are super fast there is a lag in the actual switching) but you only have to hold down for anything longer than a tap and WHILE you are holding it down your fingers and mind are free to focus on aiming your shot AND you can do all this while in Max-armour.
So while in max-armour (protected) you can instantly pick something up something heavy and as soon as it is in you hand, hold down throw key/button as you look around and aim at what you want to throw at and release.
The enemies react differently because the physics actually make sense, you can't throw an empty cardboard box at a heavily armoured soldier and expect the impact to send them flying like hit by a cannonball. The game has been IMPROVED with satisfyingly accurate physics.
" Even if the (destructible environment) didn't do much for you, don't you think it's better that they were there?"
Well from the sake of facile bragging rights of "we got it" yes, but it was so poorly implemented it's worthless. It wasn't really destructible environments, more like a delicate arrangement of indestructible boards that clipped and jittered annoyingly when they did collapse. It had no gameplay use like for blowing a hole in a wall or roof for alternate access. IF (big if) Battlefield 3 style destructible environments HAD been in Crysis 1 there but was absent in the sequel. that would be bad.
Actually, most of the environments of Crysis 1 were indestructible. So many times I tried to blow a hole through a wall or fortification and it shrugged it off like I had just thrown a water balloon at it. Both Crysis 1 and Crysis 2 had pre-animated explosions that significantly deformed the environment in response to specific ations, so it's a zero sum change there.
Hey, Piracy isn't the problem. The easy to pirate Crysis 1 sold more than Crysis 2 even with 2/3 unpiratable console releases.
STALKER I think would have suffered just as much because it was expensive to make and not enough people wanted to play it, it just added insult to injury that a significantproportion who were interested did not pay for their copy. Remember, on console if you have only passing interest the unscrupulous pirate, but on console they rent or pre-own, either way no money to the developer.
It's sad when one of the PC's poster children (S.T.A.L.K.E.R.) cannot fund a sequel, if that's a wake up call I don't know what is. That said, I don't think Crysis 2 is comparable in the same way, it's a simplified and less impressive sequel to a PC exclusive. Also, console piracy is getting very visible with the biggest titles being pirated as heavily as their PC counterparts.
It's digressing from the original topic though, I haven't bought Crysis 2 nor do I plan to. I have Crysis + Warhead, and it's not really a "generic shooter" but it could be a lot better.
Give Crysis 2 a chance. It is NOT simplified. Making something ergonomic is not "simplifying" in a patronising sense, if anything the suit powers are MORE complex in how they are arranged but more intuitive in their use. Crysis had the simplest approach to suit powers with separate modes for each, that became obtuse to use.
Valve used to make PC exclusives, but all their latest release have been getting console-releases at the same time, yet they aren't considered sell outs to "consolisation".
STALKER needed to be marketed better and to spite how many people hate this term it needed to be monetized. NOT gouging like charging real money for virtual ammo, but plug into a network that provides services like extra missions and live updates on the Zone. Something that couldn't easily be replaced by a crack or series of youtube videos.
"console piracy is getting very visible with the biggest titles being pirated as heavily as their PC counterparts."
Sorry, but last time I checked they console games were not pirated as much as PC counterparts, though still significant levels of piracy on consoles. But I believe console game releases ARE losing similar numbers of sales not to piracy but to pre-owned and rented copies.
Max speed also increases action times like reloading. Max speed is much faster in Crysis 1 and still allows you to sprint normally. Crysis 1's speed also increased movement in every position so you had multiple different options while Crysis 2 simply drains suit energy whenever you want to sprint, regardless of how you want to use it.
Treblaine said:
There is NOTHING AUTOMATIC. Auto aim makes intelligent decisions for you, the controls in Crysis 2 doesn't. There is NO special context menus, in Crysis 2 you can hold down melee button anywhere.
Never said control layouts should be secret. They shouldn't. But clearly they weren't difficult to find/figure out for the rest of us.
Treblaine said:
In all this you NEVER directly address any one of my specific problems such as:
-how the game and the Wiki doesn't explain suit shortcut controls
-the inability to super sprint and super jump at the same instance with separate modes, and other problems with separate modes idea.
-the stupid design decisions with the Radial menu, even if radial menu in principal is a good idea.
-I don't why they don't explain it. But it was easy to find and that doesn't affect my enjoyment of the actual game itself.
-Double tap sprint to go into max speed, then double tap jump to max jump. Bam. No it isn't as elegant as it could be, but it's no more inelegant than having to hold the jump button down. You also can use the radial menu (which is normally what I do) because you do retain momentum from maximum speed for a short time.
-Yeah it could have been better, but once you get over the base controls, the mechanics can do a lot more.
Treblaine said:
Crysis 1 controls you DO NOT get more freedom! You have LESS freedom compared to Crysis 2 as it is impossible to use two suit modes at the same time. You Cannot sprint while using other powers, after picking something up you can't super-throw while continuously tracking a target.
I don't get you, I really don't get you, why do you keep saying Crysis 2 controls are "compromised" when I have demonstrated that in every objective way they are NOT compromised but IMPROVED in their capability! Please, explain to me what is so "compromised" about a control scheme that allows you to combine Super-Sprint and Super-Jump for the furthest leaps?
Improved is not the opposite of compromised. The Crysis 2 controls are easier to get into but the mechanics do less, and once you get past the learning curve, you're more powerful with the Crysis 1 suit than Crysis 2.
Treblaine said:
Because these developers have endeavoured to make things better and yet people shit on their work from 20'000 feet and say the awkward controls of the previous game were good enough and reject all the improvements for no adequately explained reason. People like you are standing in the way of progress, unable to see or accept when things have improved by relishing in poor design.
You seem to think controls are the end all be all ultimate test of game design, and I absolutely disagree with that. Crysis 1 had awkward controls at first, but once you get over that and work with it they're very comfortable.
It's ridiculous to me that you seem to think controls are the pinnacle of progress. You seriously think limiting the nanosuit, limiting the environment, limiting the graphics, limiting the multiplayer, limiting the physics, limiting the game, is all excused because the controls feel more fluid? If anything it's you standing in the way of progress because you hold such a trivial matter to such high standards that you'd forsake everything else in the actual game just so it's a little easier for you to use.
EDIT: Crysis 2 was good. Probably the best of the more confined shooters that I've played (that includes Half Life 2), but it could have been more if it hadn't been so constrained.
Max speed also increases action times like reloading. Max speed is much faster in Crysis 1 and still allows you to sprint normally. Crysis 1's speed also increased movement in every position so you had multiple different options while Crysis 2 simply drains suit energy whenever you want to sprint, regardless of how you want to use it.
Max speed also increases action times like reloading. Max speed is much faster in Crysis 1 and still allows you to sprint normally. Crysis 1's speed also increased movement in every position so you had multiple different options while Crysis 2 simply drains suit energy whenever you want to sprint, regardless of how you want to use it.
Treblaine said:
There is NOTHING AUTOMATIC. Auto aim makes intelligent decisions for you, the controls in Crysis 2 doesn't. There is NO special context menus, in Crysis 2 you can hold down melee button anywhere.
Never said control layouts should be secret. They shouldn't. But clearly they weren't difficult to find/figure out for the rest of us.
Treblaine said:
In all this you NEVER directly address any one of my specific problems such as:
-how the game and the Wiki doesn't explain suit shortcut controls
-the inability to super sprint and super jump at the same instance with separate modes, and other problems with separate modes idea.
-the stupid design decisions with the Radial menu, even if radial menu in principal is a good idea.
-I don't why they don't explain it. But it was easy to find and that doesn't affect my enjoyment of the actual game itself.
-Double tap sprint to go into max speed, then double tap jump to max jump. Bam. No it isn't as elegant as it could be, but it's no more inelegant than having to hold the jump button down. You also can use the radial menu (which is normally what I do) because you do retain momentum from maximum speed for a short time.
-Yeah it could have been better, but once you get over the base controls, the mechanics can do a lot more.
Treblaine said:
Crysis 1 controls you DO NOT get more freedom! You have LESS freedom compared to Crysis 2 as it is impossible to use two suit modes at the same time. You Cannot sprint while using other powers, after picking something up you can't super-throw while continuously tracking a target.
I don't get you, I really don't get you, why do you keep saying Crysis 2 controls are "compromised" when I have demonstrated that in every objective way they are NOT compromised but IMPROVED in their capability! Please, explain to me what is so "compromised" about a control scheme that allows you to combine Super-Sprint and Super-Jump for the furthest leaps?
Improved is not the opposite of compromised. The Crysis 2 controls are easier to get into but the mechanics do less, and once you get past the learning curve, you're more powerful with the Crysis 1 suit than Crysis 2.
Treblaine said:
Because these developers have endeavoured to make things better and yet people shit on their work from 20'000 feet and say the awkward controls of the previous game were good enough and reject all the improvements for no adequately explained reason. People like you are standing in the way of progress, unable to see or accept when things have improved by relishing in poor design.
You seem to think controls are the end all be all ultimate test of game design, and I absolutely disagree with that. Crysis 1 had awkward controls at first, but once you get over that and work with it they're very comfortable.
It's ridiculous to me that you seem to think controls are the pinnacle of progress. You seriously think limiting the nanosuit, limiting the environment, limiting the graphics, limiting the multiplayer, limiting the physics, limiting the game, is all excused because the controls feel more fluid? If anything it's you standing in the way of progress because you hold such a trivial matter to such high standards that you'd forsake everything else in the actual game just so it's a little easier for you to use.
EDIT: Crysis 2 was good. Probably the best of the more confined shooters that I've played (that includes Half Life 2), but it could have been more if it hadn't been so constrained.
But compare reloading speed in Crysis 2 to Crysis 1... it's like Speed-mode reloading is always there. Which has to be good for game balance as the time you want to reload quickly is when under fire when you'll want to have Max-armour.
"Crysis 1's speed also increased movement in every position so you had multiple different options while Crysis 2 simply drains suit energy whenever you want to sprint, regardless of how you want to use it. "
That doesn't make any sense. What does "in every position" mean? Do you mean regular sprint (not max speed sprint) and by "very position" you mean "every suit mode"? Well it's superfluous having two modes of sprint and in Crysis 1 the regular sprint was just so slow. Crysis 2 the default movement speed was the speed of Crysis 1 (in non-Max-Speed mode) with sprint key held down. I ALWAYS wanted to move around at that speed in Crysis 1, I got cramp in my pinkie constantly holding down the sprint key.
Car punting in Crysis 1 is also context sensitive, you just didn't know it because an icon didn't appear on screen. In Crysis 1 you do in fact have a separate attack that is context sensitive on facing the vechicle in the right way. Same as Crysis 2, if you are at the wrong angle you will harmlessly punch it. Difference is in Crysis 2 you can more easily execute the car "throw" with the push of ONE button (rather than radial menu) for jsut one super punch not be left in strength mode and get to that position more effectively while in Max-Armour or Cloak Engaged.
"But (suit shortcuts) clearly they weren't difficult to find/figure out for the rest of us."
Clearly? Again fallaciously claiming apparent when it flies in the face of established facts. The wiki never figured it out. This thread is full of people who didn't figure it out. Half the forums on inCrysis act completely oblivious to it. You (or the other guy) earlier admitted you don't even remember where you figured it out from!
Sorry, you lose momentum for Max-Speed sprinting VERY quickly! You'd have to triple-tap jump while sprinting to perform that maximum jump. In Crysis 2 all you have to do is hold jump for anything longer than a single tap, about 0.2-sec hold time and it super-jumps right after that time.
"The Crysis 2 controls are easier to get into but the mechanics do less, and once you get past the learning curve, you're more powerful with the Crysis 1 suit than Crysis 2."
For the love of all reason and logic..
[HEADING=2]HOW!?!?![/HEADING]
How are you less powerful? Is it the cloak time, which is longer in Crysis 2? The more effective Armour mode in Crysis 2? The ability to sprint-super-jump in Crysis 2 without needing a guitar-hero-like button combination so it's actually worth trying?
How are the mechanics less? With the ability to combine suit modes in a total of 8 combinations in Crysis 2?
Learning curve? It's not worth it trying to learn to use the radial menu that quick. And anyway, the game is unreasonable in how quickly the suit uses that meagre energy reserve when Max-speed sprinting as if you take too long to switch there isn't even enough energy to make the super-jump and you just plough straight into the minefield you are trying to vault over!
Anything Crysis 1 can do Crysis 2 can do better.
"You seem to think controls are the end all be all ultimate test of game design"
YES A MILLION TIMES! What do you think is more important... graphics? Go watch Avatar. The controls DEFINE it as a computer game rather than any other type of game!
This is the main freaking appeal of PC gaming, better controls in breadth, precision and capability. I'd argue scientifically that keyboard is an inherently superior input for movement in an FPS game, better even than a thumbstick. For one its far easier to circle-strafe and REMEMBER to circle strafe actively pressing A or D to move laterally.
You have crossed the line here:
" You seriously think limiting the nanosuit, [NO!]
limiting the environment, [NO!]
limiting the graphics, [NO!]
limiting the multiplayer, [NO!]
limiting the physics, [NO!]
limiting the game, [NO!]
is all excused because the controls feel more fluid?"
We CANNOT discuss anything if you base your argument on such obvious falsehoods. I have explained this to you and you have simply denied it. I repeatedly say it wasn't limited, I proved it wasn't limited, yet you have the nerve to say:
"You seriously think limiting (every aspect of the game) is all excused because the controls feel more fluid?"
There is no limitation nor compromise!
-Limiting the Nanosuit: NO. Not this AGAIN. The suit has not been limited, everything you can do with nanosuit in Crysis 1 you can do in Crysis 2. Half the things you can do with nanosuit in crysis 2 you CANNOT do with nanosuit in Crysis 1.
-Limited environment: NO. It has been CHANGED. The breadth of gameplay possibilities have been in no way limited in net by setting it in a city.
-Limited graphics: NO. The console version predictably has turned down settings but PC version has the full gamut of the Highest settings and more than that, it uses the latest rendering techniques
-Limited multiplayer: No. Crysis 2 has more features in multiplayer than Crysis 1
-Limited Physics: No. The physics have been made more realistic, no more cannonball coffee cups or supposedly resting objects jittering and bouncing in-perpetuity.
And EVEN IF these had been compromised, that is no reason to oppose superior controls as the state of the graphics is ultimately completely separate. The graphics can be more or less ambitious, but are the controls designed better or worse?
In almost every objective way Crysis 2 is better than or equal (so close it's negligible) to Crysis 1.
If you liked Crysis 1 but liked Crysis 2 less, you are going to have to come up with better reasons than what you have given as it seem to be entirely based on flawed ideas and false assertions if not down right prejudice (like it not PC exclusive).
But compare reloading speed in Crysis 2 to Crysis 1... it's like Speed-mode reloading is always there. Which has to be good for game balance as the time you want to reload quickly is when under fire when you'll want to have Max-armour.
Car punting in Crysis 1 is also context sensitive, you just didn't know it because an icon didn't appear on screen. In Crysis 1 you do in fact have a separate attack that is context sensitive on facing the vechicle in the right way.
...You didn't have context-sensitive car punting Crysis 1, you hit something and physics took care of it. In Crysis 2 you have to be positioned correctly for the kick to work.
Treblaine said:
Clearly? Again fallaciously claiming apparent when it flies in the face of established facts. The wiki never figured it out. This thread is full of people who didn't figure it out. Half the forums on inCrysis act completely oblivious to it. You (or the other guy) earlier admitted you don't even remember where you figured it out from!
And yet amazingly, if you Google "crysis nanosuit shortcuts", the top result is a page written five years ago that simply and clearly states what they do. Yes it should've been more obvious but come on. The reason I don't remember where I figured it out from is because it probably took me a few seconds. And further this has no affect on the actual game.
Treblaine said:
Sorry, you lose momentum for Max-Speed sprinting VERY quickly! You'd have to triple-tap jump while sprinting to perform that maximum jump. In Crysis 2 all you have to do is hold jump for anything longer than a single tap, about 0.2-sec hold time and it super-jumps right after that time.
Triple tap jump? Where did that come from? Do you mean double tap? That's still faster than holding the button. Having to hold the button instead of double tap or the radial menu does take longer and thus is a compromise. The same is true for melee. The first game let's you get up to a person, double tap melee or use the radial menu and hit him, it takes only as long as you take. The Crysis 2 forces you to charge up your punch like a chump no matter how quick you are.
Crysis 1 can do everything faster once you get good at it. because the powers depend on you far more. You don't have to wait for maximum strength, you have more options with maximum speed, maximum armor doesn't slow you down to a crawl (though I enjoy armor more in crysis 2), and cloak feels far more balanced (gasp, subjective!)
Treblaine said:
You have crossed the line here:
" You seriously think limiting the nanosuit, [NO!]
limiting the environment, [NO!]
limiting the graphics, [NO!]
limiting the multiplayer, [NO!]
limiting the physics, [NO!]
limiting the game, [NO!]
I've explained this already. You keep ignoring it. Nanosuit - The player's control of the powers has been limited. When maximum strength isn't context sensitive, it requires you to hold the button which takes longer than doing it in Crysis 1. Maximum speed has become nothing more than a slightly inconvenient sprint button that's slower than Crysis 1's speed and automated any other features. And you can string together powers, just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean it's impossible. Environment - This is obvious. The levels in Crysis 1 may have been linear overall, but they were still very open and allowed you an extremely wide area to maneuver. Some of the maps are huge with multiple objectives that you can attack in any order at any angle, sometimes with optional vehicles. Crysis 2 is far more cramped. Often times the only way to flank an enemy is to use the specifically designated route that the game points at and says "HEY LOOK YOU CAN FLANK EM HERE!" The environment has absolutely been limited. Graphics - I played Crysis 2 when it first came out where that was definitely true. It has probably been fixed by now, so I'll concede this point because I don't enough about it. Multiplayer - 32 player matches with vehicles, capturable buildings, huge maps, and nuclear weapons has been limited to short matches between a small amount of people on tiny maps. You think adding more superficial carrot-on-a-stick features makes up for the actual gameplay? Physics - Not nearly as many dynamic objects, almost no destruction. Physics have been delegated to specific objects, often of which only use pseudo-physics with context sensitive actions. Making it more "realistic" (such as "realistically" being unable to break a skinny sidewalk tree with a grenade) has nothing to do with limitations. There is less of it, it is limited.
Treblaine said:
We CANNOT discuss anything if you base your argument on such obvious falsehoods. I have explained this to you and you have simply denied it. I repeatedly say it wasn't limited, I proved it wasn't limited, yet you have the nerve to say:
"You seriously think limiting (every aspect of the game) is all excused because the controls feel more fluid?"
Everything I said above was factually true, and issues making powers like strength take longer is a compromise no matter how small you think it is.
Treblaine said:
And EVEN IF these had been compromised, that is no reason to oppose superior controls as the state of the graphics is ultimately completely separate. The graphics can be more or less ambitious, but are the controls designed better or worse?
Why in the hell do you keep saying this? I absolutely do not oppose better controls. I have said that time and time again and it's comments like this that make me sure you're just glazing over everything I write. Crysis 1 absolutely did have awkward controls, it absolutely could have done better. My point this whole time is that it's very possible to get over that flaw and find a very rewarding experience that's actually based on how you utilize the powers. Once you get over the controls, the mechanics of Crysis 1's powers allowed for a higher level of skill.
The problem is muscle memory, all all the mouse-gesture interfaces not just in games but in interfaces for browsers it is done at 90-degrees segments and possibly further sub-divided into 45-degree segments. This 5-way 72-degree split defies ALL the muscle memory! It's needlessly different and all that is to put something in there that doesn't even need to be in there!!! Can't you recognise the failure in ergonomic design here?
"Making speed/strength the default suit power felt stupid to me since it meant you were always using up energy."
Well that is just plain ignorant as in the game the suit is NOT always using up energy in Crysis 2. Only when you ACTUALLY sprint or ACTUALLY PERFORM a strength move is energy used. The default movement speed is about the speed you move in Crysis-1-Max-Armour with sprint always held down. If you run out of energy in either Crysis 1 OR 2 you cannot sprint away at super speed. Super-sprint is slightly slower in Crysis 2 but is traded off by you can overall go further on its energy consumption rate. The speed was ultimately too fast in Crysis 1, you'd fly into object or enemies before they are actually rendered.
"And holding down the attack key to power-throw an object takes more time than quickly switching modes and hitting the throw key."
That defies the logic of its use in practice. Not only does it take time to switch modes (even if you are super fast there is a lag in the actual switching) but you only have to hold down for anything longer than a tap and WHILE you are holding it down your fingers and mind are free to focus on aiming your shot AND you can do all this while in Max-armour.
So while in max-armour (protected) you can instantly pick something up something heavy and as soon as it is in you hand, hold down throw key/button as you look around and aim at what you want to throw at and release.
The enemies react differently because the physics actually make sense, you can't throw an empty cardboard box at a heavily armoured soldier and expect the impact to send them flying like hit by a cannonball. The game has been IMPROVED with satisfyingly accurate physics.
" Even if the (destructible environment) didn't do much for you, don't you think it's better that they were there?"
Well from the sake of facile bragging rights of "we got it" yes, but it was so poorly implemented it's worthless. It wasn't really destructible environments, more like a delicate arrangement of indestructible boards that clipped and jittered annoyingly when they did collapse. It had no gameplay use like for blowing a hole in a wall or roof for alternate access. IF (big if) Battlefield 3 style destructible environments HAD been in Crysis 1 there but was absent in the sequel. that would be bad.
Actually, most of the environments of Crysis 1 were indestructible. So many times I tried to blow a hole through a wall or fortification and it shrugged it off like I had just thrown a water balloon at it. Both Crysis 1 and Crysis 2 had pre-animated explosions that significantly deformed the environment in response to specific ations, so it's a zero sum change there.
You do make some good points. I understand what you're talking about with the muscle memory thing, but I guess it comes down to preference in the end. I assume Crytek put the customisation option on the radial menu so that if you say, suddenly came across an enemy jeep, you could quickly slap a grenade launcher on to your rifle and start shooting. I suppose it'd be just as quick to hit the weapon customisation key, but Crytek probably thought they were being convenient by giving you the options. Maybe it is a failure in ergonomic design, but I don't think too many people during the game development thought so, or else they'd have ditched it by the release date.
My statement on having speed/strength mode as the default suit power: when I said that 'you were always using up energy' I didn't mean it literally. I apologise for using a bad choice of words there. Rather I was poking fun at the sprint that always used up energy, even though the sprint never made you go really fast.
As for the power throw thing, I guess it also comes down to preference. I still think that holding down the attack button takes longer than just toggling the suit mode and hitting the throw key. It's very hard to power throw something in Crysis 2 when you're being shot at, since being shot takes energy, no matter what suit mode you're in. Mind you, I once power threw a barrel at a guy and it went straight through him. I'm assuming this was a glitch so maybe Crytek has fixed it with a patch.
I don't know about you, but I always found it satisfying to punch down a wall in Crysis 1 and watch the small structure collapse on the person inside. The game was fairly consistent with what you could and couldn't destroy, so I don't know why you tried to blow a hole through a wall or fortification. That being said, I do agree with your point about it being not really 'destructible environment' as such. I wish however that Crysis 2 had offered more destruction than what it did. I wasn't expecting to be running down solid light posts with a car, but what about a small wooden park bench?
My biggest complaint with Crysis 2 is that for me it wasn't as much fun. It was more realistic, yes, but not as much fun. Throwing a chicken or a tree branch at a guy may not be realistic, but it's fun (from what I recall, small power-thrown objects couldn't knock down enemies anyway). In the first game you felt like a god. In number two, the nanosuit just feels weaker (I'm not talking about the armor mode, I'm talking about thr nanosuit in general). No more punching up guards with your bare fists. No more picking up a dude and instantly throwing him at another dude to knock them both down, because usually you'll get shot first, and so your energy will decrease (in Crysis 2 it slowly decreases when you're holding someone anyway), then you won't be able to power throw the guy because you don't have enough energy, then you'll run out of energy completely and so your character will throw the dude away automatically, with no effect on the other dude that you were aiming at. No more super sprinting up to an enemy, picking him up, and throwing him to the ground. No more throwing a large trash bin at a guy and watching him fly away twenty feet.
Having accurate physics doesn't make a game fun, just realistic. In my opinion anyway.
That's not automatic to always have a faster reload speed, you only reload on your command, nothing is done without your consent. If the nanosuit muscle fibres can speed up gun reloading, then that should be possible all the time, not just when in a particular mode.
Crysis 1 you automatically go to standing when using Max Speed sprint.
No, there IS different mode for punting a car that was context-sensitive in Crysis 1.
"Triple tap jump? Where did that come from?"
Double tap to enter strength mode, and a further tap to actually perform super jump. Verses: just holding down jump for 0.2 of a second. Crysis 1 can only possibly be faster if you have Morse-code fast fingers and distract large parts of your brain from calculating enemy position + strategy formation to changing simple controls!
Considering how dangerous it is to NOT have max-armour on in Crysis, how you can only switch to Max-strength when you absolutely need it... then it DEFINITELY takes longer to perform strength attacks in Crysis 1 compared to Crysis 2. It is COMPLETELY impractical trying so overlap suit modes in Crysis 1, it's not freaking worth it.
You're looking at the change to city scape you are ONLY looking at what has been lost - the sprawling and undulating width - and ignoring what has been granted, mainly the greatly increased verticality, layers and effect of corners and elevated ledges. Helicopters that move in and out of cover behind objects. This is no overall limitation on gameplay. It's clearly no console limitation as Far Cry 2 copies the Crysis moulds of map layout. The developers for crysis 2 wanted MORE gameplay variety and were LIMITED by the jungle environment that they were probably sick of after having it for every on of their games since Far Cry 1.
Crysis 2 actually has just as many dynamic objects as Crysis 1 in terms of stuff too pick up and throw. The only absence are those glitchy jenga buildings that added nothing to the game but an awkward tech demo for what passes for destructible environments. The concrete buildings in Crysis 1 were indestructible by any of your means. Most of the buildings in Crysis 2 were concrete. You CAN shoot the trees to pieces with your gun in Crysis 2, just like Crysis 1
You are a broken record on this strength thing, your problem is you have ZERO consideration to ergonomic design. It's not enough that theoretically you can switch to strength mode instantaneously with the radial menu, the ERGONOMICS (look it up) mean it is in practice much slower and the further time wasting of having to change back. You do NOT have to hold the button for any longer than a fraction of a second and needs no further mental load.
Well I guess all we have is opinion. You think it is worth is "getting over" Crysis 1's admittedly terrible controls but I have proven you can be just as capable and MORE capable with Crysis 2's controls where there is nothing to get over. Superiority. That's what I spent vast amounts of money on PC trying to get, not something to "get over". I hear people saying you can "get over" aiming with a thumbstick in console games but everyone knows a mouse is in every way better, it's the same case with Crysis 2's controls.
You do make some good points. I understand what you're talking about with the muscle memory thing, but I guess it comes down to preference in the end. I assume Crytek put the customisation option on the radial menu so that if you say, suddenly came across an enemy jeep, you could quickly slap a grenade launcher on to your rifle and start shooting. I suppose it'd be just as quick to hit the weapon customisation key, but Crytek probably thought they were being convenient by giving you the options. Maybe it is a failure in ergonomic design, but I don't think too many people during the game development thought so, or else they'd have ditched it by the release date.
My statement on having speed/strength mode as the default suit power: when I said that 'you were always using up energy' I didn't mean it literally. I apologise for using a bad choice of words there. Rather I was poking fun at the sprint that always used up energy, even though the sprint never made you go really fast.
As for the power throw thing, I guess it also comes down to preference. I still think that holding down the attack button takes longer than just toggling the suit mode and hitting the throw key. It's very hard to power throw something in Crysis 2 when you're being shot at, since being shot takes energy, no matter what suit mode you're in. Mind you, I once power threw a barrel at a guy and it went straight through him. I'm assuming this was a glitch so maybe Crytek has fixed it with a patch.
I don't know about you, but I always found it satisfying to punch down a wall in Crysis 1 and watch the small structure collapse on the person inside. The game was fairly consistent with what you could and couldn't destroy, so I don't know why you tried to blow a hole through a wall or fortification. That being said, I do agree with your point about it being not really 'destructible environment' as such. I wish however that Crysis 2 had offered more destruction than what it did. I wasn't expecting to be running down solid light posts with a car, but what about a small wooden park bench?
My biggest complaint with Crysis 2 is that for me it wasn't as much fun. It was more realistic, yes, but not as much fun. Throwing a chicken or a tree branch at a guy may not be realistic, but it's fun (from what I recall, small power-thrown objects couldn't knock down enemies anyway). In the first game you felt like a god. In number two, the nanosuit just feels weaker (I'm not talking about the armor mode, I'm talking about thr nanosuit in general). No more punching up guards with your bare fists. No more picking up a dude and instantly throwing him at another dude to knock them both down, because usually you'll get shot first, and so your energy will decrease (in Crysis 2 it slowly decreases when you're holding someone anyway), then you won't be able to power throw the guy because you don't have enough energy, then you'll run out of energy completely and so your character will throw the dude away automatically, with no effect on the other dude that you were aiming at. No more super sprinting up to an enemy, picking him up, and throwing him to the ground. No more throwing a large trash bin at a guy and watching him fly away twenty feet.
Having accurate physics doesn't make a game fun, just realistic. In my opinion anyway.
Well I found Crysis 1 hugely frustrating byond the awful radial menu ideas. I was pissed how much sway my weapon had to spite laying prone in strength-mode I had no way to steady my aim, in Crysis 2 it was like a laser. And how if I was in a building soldiers would mag-dump and toss grenades at me and the building would fall on my head and without fail start glitching as the piles of flat polygons clipped in and out of each other.
To spite the breadth of the environments, they were just so undulating that it was hard to really exploit blind spots for flanking.
I don't know if you have played Crysis 2 but you don't realise how short a time you have to hold down to get the super punch, it's really anything longer than a tap becomes a super punch. I guarantee you would REALLY STRUGGLE to deliver super-punches as quick as you can in Crysis 2 in Crysis 1. I've been back and forth between both, I CANNOT be as quick. The quicker I get with crysis 1 the sooner I know when I'm total charge (it's literally a fraction of a second) and can release. Of course super jump you don't have to release, just hold jump and you super-jump as soon as charged.
A game about a nano-suited super-soldier fighting totalitarian soldiers and alien monsters... if the fun is coming from throwing chickens at people then the developers have kind of failed in their tone. The fun in Crysis 2 is actually FROM the scenario they are supposed to be in, not ridiculous shit like throwing chickens at people. That's stuff for the blooper reel. That's more fitting in games like Team Fortress 2, not in a Crysis game. So I didn't miss it.
You can still punch dudes in Crysis 2, what's so special about going two bare fisted? That is just SILLY to ever do that if you have a gun! You can still grab and throw enemies in Crysis 2, it's far easier than in Crysis 1 were you needed strength to do that and without max-armour you got ripped to shreds before you could do anything. You can still super-sprint (that isn't much slower than Crysis 1) and grab enemies, for one the sprint uses suit-energy at a much lower rate it is in fact EASIER to sprint up to a guard, grab them and slam them down in Crysis 2.
Crysis 2 you get WAY more suit energy, and it recharges quicker. It's also way easier to sneak up on or flank enemies in a city scape with so many right angle corners compared to the undulating expanses of the jungle.
Crysis 2 fixed all the frustrations of Crysis 1. While I would like to see them return to the jungle, it's no major need unless they actually exploit the jungle's unique attributes.
We both just keep saying the same things. The difference is that I'm arguing mine largely as an opinion on one of Crysis 2's failings and you keep clinging to this arrogant notion of "proving" your argument to me, despite your explanations of these proofs being mostly based on your subjective perspective of quality and are often justified with facts that don't address the actual issue. And you do this while conveniently ignoring things like how maximum speed affects far more than just a simple (and slower) sprint or how the super jump really does only require a double tap which has no hold time constraint on it like Crysis 2. Also not sure why you keep mentioning PC gaming or the idea of consolization because I certainly haven't.
And have some fucking respect for discussion. You've been vehemently denying anything I say, and no matter the ridiculously subjective nature of those denials, no matter how much I show you that an argument doesn't work, you claim that you've "proven" it to me. You haven't proven anything when I can still do everything faster, and have better control over my suit's powers in Crysis 1. You can't "prove" this by saying it's just as easy to do in Crysis 2 because that entirely misses the point. You seem to think ease of use validates a loss of tactical control, then you argue controls as if it's a binary opposite of mechanics. It's simply not correct to claim that you've proven something based on concepts that aren't directly comparable.
But pretty much my issue comes to this:
Treblaine said:
That's not automatic to always have a faster reload speed, you only reload on your command, nothing is done without your consent. If the nanosuit muscle fibres can speed up gun reloading, then that should be possible all the time, not just when in a particular mode.
You basically spelled out the problem I've had this whole time. Reread this quote because it epitomizes the issue. The suit power is used automatically when you reload, removing any control from the player. In the exact same line of reasoning, if Crysis 3 comes out and automates even more you'd say maximum strength isn't automatic because it activates when you melee or maximum speed isn't automatic because it activates when you sprint (already works this way), and those powers should be possible at all times because something something nanosuit muscle fibers.
It's a specifically blind justification for a system that did in fact limit player control. No matter how much easier it is for you to use, it still makes speed and strength less of a tactical option at any given time, limiting how I get to choose, how I allocate my resources and plan my fight. Hell even your precious wiki lists strength as a passive secondary mode and doesn't even list speed as a main or secondary mode. if simplifying and streamlining was indicative of quality, we'd all be playing iOS games. I have no issue with you liking Crysis 2's system better, but don't say you've "proven" to me Crysis 2's superiority by way of streamlining or that I get in the way of progress by not supporting simplification.
I like having more options that allow for a higher level of skill. If two people in a firefight have to reload, I absolutely support the idea that one of them could get an edge by switching to speed mode in order to reload or switch weapons faster. More tangible player options add increased variety and control of actions. It puts more variables in play and makes for a more engaging experience. I'm the type who would love games to have something like this http://dl.dropbox.com/u/677391/Demo.html where manually having to reload and pull back the slide allows a slightly higher level of skill to develop. If the sequel to that demo made reloading and other actions into simple animation, the function stays the same but that player's interaction and overall control becomes limited.
We both just keep saying the same things. The difference is that I'm arguing mine largely as an opinion on one of Crysis 2's failings and you keep clinging to this arrogant notion of "proving" your argument to me, despite your explanations of these proofs being mostly based on your subjective perspective of quality and are often justified with facts that don't address the actual issue. And you do this while conveniently ignoring things like how maximum speed affects far more than just a simple (and slower) sprint or how the super jump really does only require a double tap which has no hold time constraint on it like Crysis 2. Also not sure why you keep mentioning PC gaming or the idea of consolization because I certainly haven't.
And have some fucking respect for discussion. You've been vehemently denying anything I say, and no matter the ridiculously subjective nature of those denials, no matter how much I show you that an argument doesn't work, you claim that you've "proven" it to me. You haven't proven anything when I can still do everything faster, and have better control over my suit's powers in Crysis 1. You can't "prove" this by saying it's just as easy to do in Crysis 2 because that entirely misses the point. You seem to think ease of use validates a loss of tactical control, then you argue controls as if it's a binary opposite of mechanics. It's simply not correct to claim that you've proven something based on concepts that aren't directly comparable.
But pretty much my issue comes to this:
Treblaine said:
That's not automatic to always have a faster reload speed, you only reload on your command, nothing is done without your consent. If the nanosuit muscle fibres can speed up gun reloading, then that should be possible all the time, not just when in a particular mode.
You basically spelled out the problem I've had this whole time. Reread this quote because it epitomizes the issue. The suit power is used automatically when you reload, removing any control from the player. In the exact same line of reasoning, if Crysis 3 comes out and automates even more you'd say maximum strength isn't automatic because it activates when you melee or maximum speed isn't automatic because it activates when you sprint (already works this way), and those powers should be possible at all times because something something nanosuit muscle fibers.
It's a specifically blind justification for a system that did in fact limit player control. No matter how much easier it is for you to use, it still makes speed and strength less of a tactical option at any given time, limiting how I get to choose, how I allocate my resources and plan my fight. Hell even your precious wiki lists strength as a passive secondary mode and doesn't even list speed as a main or secondary mode. if simplifying and streamlining was indicative of quality, we'd all be playing iOS games. I have no issue with you liking Crysis 2's system better, but don't say you've "proven" to me Crysis 2's superiority by way of streamlining or that I get in the way of progress by not supporting simplification.
I like having more options that allow for a higher level of skill. If two people in a firefight have to reload, I absolutely support the idea that one of them could get an edge by switching to speed mode in order to reload or switch weapons faster. More tangible player options add increased variety and control of actions. It puts more variables in play and makes for a more engaging experience. I'm the type who would love games to have something like this http://dl.dropbox.com/u/677391/Demo.html where manually having to reload and pull back the slide allows a slightly higher level of skill to develop. If the sequel to that demo made reloading and other actions into simple animation, the function stays the same but that player's interaction and overall control becomes limited.
But when would you ever want a slower reload? I get when you'd want to not throw at max force or punch with max force, or move at a slower speed so you don't fly off and edge or out of cover.
You can vehemently claim that double tapping to ENTER strength mode is an adequate shortcut to just quickly do a single super-jump but I think this speaks for itself. But surely you can see how most people will find it more tactically flexible to just hold jump for a fraction of a second than try to perform multiple taps.
"Hell even your precious wiki lists strength as a passive secondary mode and doesn't even list speed as a main or secondary mode."
So what? It's a false assumption that the abilities should be divided into discrete modes.
The point is these abilities are capable and surely you can see that is is better that these abilities they are NOT subdivided into 4 discrete modes. Especially when there is no direct single-key-press to go from one mode to the other.
Simplification is a dirty word for how it implies that features are limited. Except in the case Crysis 2 there are no limitations, you have more PRACTICAL options. It is PRACTICAL to press one key to engage sprint then hold jump to super jump, versus the rapid and precise key presses and gestures needed to do the same thing with Crysis 1 controls. It's utterly pointless if Speed Mode has you reload slightly quicker if it takes you a certain amount of tiem to switch to speed mode then switch back to the mode you actually need to be in.
I have proven the controls are not limited, you have not refuted my points. You have simply denied them and then based your assumptions on that.
How is it a limitation to always reload at faster speed? That's an advantage. You CANNOT paint Crysis 2 as some iOS game no matter how much you assert it.
We both just keep saying the same things. The difference is that I'm arguing mine largely as an opinion on one of Crysis 2's failings and you keep clinging to this arrogant notion of "proving" your argument to me, despite your explanations of these proofs being mostly based on your subjective perspective of quality and are often justified with facts that don't address the actual issue. And you do this while conveniently ignoring things like how maximum speed affects far more than just a simple (and slower) sprint or how the super jump really does only require a double tap which has no hold time constraint on it like Crysis 2. Also not sure why you keep mentioning PC gaming or the idea of consolization because I certainly haven't.
And have some fucking respect for discussion. You've been vehemently denying anything I say, and no matter the ridiculously subjective nature of those denials, no matter how much I show you that an argument doesn't work, you claim that you've "proven" it to me. You haven't proven anything when I can still do everything faster, and have better control over my suit's powers in Crysis 1. You can't "prove" this by saying it's just as easy to do in Crysis 2 because that entirely misses the point. You seem to think ease of use validates a loss of tactical control, then you argue controls as if it's a binary opposite of mechanics. It's simply not correct to claim that you've proven something based on concepts that aren't directly comparable.
But pretty much my issue comes to this:
Treblaine said:
That's not automatic to always have a faster reload speed, you only reload on your command, nothing is done without your consent. If the nanosuit muscle fibres can speed up gun reloading, then that should be possible all the time, not just when in a particular mode.
You basically spelled out the problem I've had this whole time. Reread this quote because it epitomizes the issue. The suit power is used automatically when you reload, removing any control from the player. In the exact same line of reasoning, if Crysis 3 comes out and automates even more you'd say maximum strength isn't automatic because it activates when you melee or maximum speed isn't automatic because it activates when you sprint (already works this way), and those powers should be possible at all times because something something nanosuit muscle fibers.
It's a specifically blind justification for a system that did in fact limit player control. No matter how much easier it is for you to use, it still makes speed and strength less of a tactical option at any given time, limiting how I get to choose, how I allocate my resources and plan my fight. Hell even your precious wiki lists strength as a passive secondary mode and doesn't even list speed as a main or secondary mode. if simplifying and streamlining was indicative of quality, we'd all be playing iOS games. I have no issue with you liking Crysis 2's system better, but don't say you've "proven" to me Crysis 2's superiority by way of streamlining or that I get in the way of progress by not supporting simplification.
I like having more options that allow for a higher level of skill. If two people in a firefight have to reload, I absolutely support the idea that one of them could get an edge by switching to speed mode in order to reload or switch weapons faster. More tangible player options add increased variety and control of actions. It puts more variables in play and makes for a more engaging experience. I'm the type who would love games to have something like this http://dl.dropbox.com/u/677391/Demo.html where manually having to reload and pull back the slide allows a slightly higher level of skill to develop. If the sequel to that demo made reloading and other actions into simple animation, the function stays the same but that player's interaction and overall control becomes limited.
But when would you ever want a slower reload? I get when you'd want to not throw at max force or punch with max force, or move at a slower speed so you don't fly off and edge or out of cover.
You can vehemently claim that double tapping to ENTER strength mode is an adequate shortcut to just quickly do a single super-jump but I think this speaks for itself. But surely you can see how most people will find it more tactically flexible to just hold jump for a fraction of a second than try to perform multiple taps.
"Hell even your precious wiki lists strength as a passive secondary mode and doesn't even list speed as a main or secondary mode."
So what? It's a false assumption that the abilities should be divided into discrete modes.
The point is these abilities are capable and surely you can see that is is better that these abilities they are NOT subdivided into 4 discrete modes. Especially when there is no direct single-key-press to go from one mode to the other.
Simplification is a dirty word for how it implies that features are limited. Except in the case Crysis 2 there are no limitations, you have more PRACTICAL options. It is PRACTICAL to press one key to engage sprint then hold jump to super jump, versus the rapid and precise key presses and gestures needed to do the same thing with Crysis 1 controls. It's utterly pointless if Speed Mode has you reload slightly quicker if it takes you a certain amount of tiem to switch to speed mode then switch back to the mode you actually need to be in.
I have proven the controls are not limited, you have not refuted my points. You have simply denied them and then based your assumptions on that.
How is it a limitation to always reload at faster speed? That's an advantage. You CANNOT paint Crysis 2 as some iOS game no matter how much you assert it.
The great part of Crysis 1 was that you had to balance out all the suit modes and how you wanted to spend your energy - if that was all streamlined and simplified it would take a whole dimension out of the game.
I'm all for key shortcuts in the game like Crysis 2 did, but changing every to be automatic is just too much.
Why do you keep saying that? Double tapping space performs a super jump. And it's factually true that I can perform the super jump in Crysis 1 faster than I can in Crysis 2.
Treblaine said:
The point is these abilities are capable and surely you can see that is is better that these abilities they are NOT subdivided into 4 discrete modes. Especially when there is no direct single-key-press to go from one mode to the other.
My point is that mixing the powers into each other or automating them defeats the whole idea. When you have four discrete modes that each perform specific functions it's up to you to choose between then. The suit powers are another layer to combat, acting separately from the basic run point shoot and allowing you to weave those powers into that basic routine to create something unique. Once they start becoming integrated and automated they lose the whole purpose of being an added mechanic and simply become a static variable that a programmer increased a bit.
I've said so many times that I agree they should have single button inputs but I'm not arguing about a disparity between learning curves, this is from the perspective of someone who got over the awkward controls.
Treblaine said:
Simplification is a dirty word for how it implies that features are limited. Except in the case Crysis 2 there are no limitations, you have more PRACTICAL options.
This is exactly what I was talking about when I said you constantly justify your position with unrelated points. You do not "prove" that a limitation doesn't exist by stating it's now more practical. Those concepts do not cancel each other out, you're trying to prove something by saying the better features are simply an adequate compromise. Your proofs are just you claiming "It's close enough to not really matter and Crysis 2 has easier controls, therefore no limitations". The reality is that the player's control, for better or worse, is more limited. There is no denying that. When the game takes control of how mechanics are performed, even slightly, it limits the player that much more. I'm totally willing to call this an extreme difference of opinion if you'd just stop claiming to have "proven" me incorrect with such ridiculous pseudo-logic.
Treblaine said:
How is it a limitation to always reload at faster speed? That's an advantage.
Again, you cannot simply disprove a limitation by stating you now have an advantage. You make arbitrary correlations between concepts and use those to "prove" your point.
You also still seem under the impression that limitation exists only as a concept of scaling down. I have constantly said that this is an issue with the player's control being limited.
If there was an attack that made you automatically kill everything in your line of sight, I would call that a limitation on the player's control as it decreases the interactivity and range of possible skill. Would you argue that it's an advantage? The player was gonna shoot everything in their line of sight anyway, surely this can't be an issue because this new attack only does it faster, makes you stronger and is far easier to use. Such an attack could only be good, right?
I'd like to focus in on this quote that seem to underpin the centre of your argument:
"My point is that mixing the powers into each other or automating them defeats the whole idea."
Well that's YOUR idea of the way the game should be.
But did you stop to consider people liked the abilities themselves not the fact that they were LIMITED by being subdivided into discrete modes - that it didn't help how it wasn't as quick and intuitive to switch between them as they could be.
I actually had a chance to fire up Crysis 1 recently and discovered I accepted quite a lot of nonsense you claimed on bad faith:
-In Crysis 1 you cannot jump AT ALL while sprinting, in any mode! Using suit-shortcuts Double tapping jump while sprinting not only do you not jump, but you don't change modes at all.
-Entering radial menu instantly breaks sprint momentum.
-Combining forward velocity of Max-sprint and vertical thrust of Max-strength jump is impossible the way you claim.
-double tapping jump any other time may activate a super-jump but then you are left in strength mode!
-Speed mode has absolutely no effect on reload speed of any of the weapons
-half the trees I found in the jungle in Crysis 1 were indestructible and in fact only a few select trees were in any way destructible
-I also discovered the pistol has a really low fire-cap (about 300rpm)
Note: I am running the latest patch of the Steam version without any patches or special macros. I'm told by my friend the Max-speed-sprint + max-strength- jump is only possible with macros.
Well I found Crysis 1 hugely frustrating byond the awful radial menu ideas. I was pissed how much sway my weapon had to spite laying prone in strength-mode I had no way to steady my aim, in Crysis 2 it was like a laser. And how if I was in a building soldiers would mag-dump and toss grenades at me and the building would fall on my head and without fail start glitching as the piles of flat polygons clipped in and out of each other.
But at least you can prone in Crysis and from what I recall, there wasn't much sway at all if you were laying prone (there was less sway in Crysis 2, I agree with you there). The building pieces would glitch sometimes, that's very true, but it's not like it broke the game or anything. Crysis 2 still had the problem of enemies weapons getting stuck in the environment. They never fixed that physics issue - removing the destroyable building pieces simply made it less noticeable. BTW, what's wrong with soldiers tossing grenades at you while you're in a destructible building? Isn't that an acceptable strategy? You seem to be implying that it's stupid.
Treblaine said:
To spite the breadth of the environments, they were just so undulating that it was hard to really exploit blind spots for flanking.
Not too sure what you mean here. Flanking in Crysis was usually quite easy. There were some parts where it was impossible especially towards the end, but most of the time stealth could allow you to flank any enemy encampment. It's easier to flank in Crysis 2, but that's because the environments are smaller.
Treblaine said:
I don't know if you have played Crysis 2 but you don't realise how short a time you have to hold down to get the super punch, it's really anything longer than a tap becomes a super punch. I guarantee you would REALLY STRUGGLE to deliver super-punches as quick as you can in Crysis 2 in Crysis 1. I've been back and forth between both, I CANNOT be as quick. The quicker I get with crysis 1 the sooner I know when I'm total charge (it's literally a fraction of a second) and can release. Of course super jump you don't have to release, just hold jump and you super-jump as soon as charged.
It seems that we're never going to agree here. I went back and played Crysis 2 before writing this: you are right when you say that you don't have to hold the attack button in for too long to super punch, but in the first game as long as you were in strength mode then you could deliver punch after punch until your energy ran out, whereas with Crysis 2 there's that slight delay before each super punch. Plus super punching in Crysis 2 uses up all your energy.
Treblaine said:
A game about a nano-suited super-soldier fighting totalitarian soldiers and alien monsters... if the fun is coming from throwing chickens at people then the developers have kind of failed in their tone. The fun in Crysis 2 is actually FROM the scenario they are supposed to be in, not ridiculous shit like throwing chickens at people. That's stuff for the blooper reel. That's more fitting in games like Team Fortress 2, not in a Crysis game. So I didn't miss it.
You can still punch dudes in Crysis 2, what's so special about going two bare fisted? That is just SILLY to ever do that if you have a gun! You can still grab and throw enemies in Crysis 2, it's far easier than in Crysis 1 were you needed strength to do that and without max-armour you got ripped to shreds before you could do anything. You can still super-sprint (that isn't much slower than Crysis 1) and grab enemies, for one the sprint uses suit-energy at a much lower rate it is in fact EASIER to sprint up to a guard, grab them and slam them down in Crysis 2.
Throwing chickens never detracted from the mood of the first game because it wasn't a major gameplay gimmick. You didn't HAVE to throw chickens at koreans, but the option was there. You didn't HAVE to attack a group of soldiers with your bare fists, but the option was there. Then there were little things that were in the original but not the sequel. You never had to use the map in the first game, but the option was there. You never had to customise your reticle's shape and colour but the option was there. You never had to punch down thinly made walls, or shoot the oil tank on a vehicle, or be able to prone, but the option WAS THERE. Crysis wasn't as scripted as other shooters because it didn't need to be (not that you ever said that - I'm just making a point). Most of the cool things that happened, such as punching a car twenty feet into another dude, or destroying a flying helicopter with a thrown (burning) explosive barrel, or even punching down a house, happened because you could, not because you had to. That was one of the biggest things in Crysis - you could stuff around and make your own experience. You can't do that in Crysis 2, mostly because of the change in environment, lack of vehicles and drivable roads, and because of the changes inflicted upon the nanosuit.
Both in Crysis 1 and 2, you can throw enemies regardless of whether you have energy or not, and regardless of what suit mode your in. The main difference is that unless you power throw an enemy in Crysis 1 he will usually get back up. In Crysis 2, you slowly run out of energy if you're holding someone (unlike the first game). If you run out of energy while holding someone in Crysis 1 you throw them automatically which gives you the chance to knock over the enemy in front of you - in Crysis 2 you simply drop them. Not only that but holding someone obstructs your vision far more than in the original game (so that you have trouble seeing where you're throwing). Plus the changed physics means that thrown objects loose trajectory faster so you're always having to aim slightly above your target, which I still have trouble adjusting to.
The sprint in Crysis 2 is faster than the sprint in say Call of Duty, while the sprint in the first game made you faster than a vehicle. Now sure it didn't last long, but that wasn't the point: it was primarily used to escape situations by super sprinting into cover. And if you're out of energy, you can still sprint normally which is only slightly slower than the sprint from Crysis 2. If you run out of energy in Crysis 2, you can't sprint at all - not even normally.
Treblaine said:
Crysis 2 you get WAY more suit energy, and it recharges quicker. It's also way easier to sneak up on or flank enemies in a city scape with so many right angle corners compared to the undulating expanses of the jungle.
And so Crysis 1 was far more strategic because of the lesser amount of suit energy and slower recharge. This combined with the four suit options meant that you had to try and plan your attack. Most of the time you could just sneak around a group of enemies (not including the final third of the game which is arguably the worst part). And each base always had multiple entrances whether it be by climbing up the rocks behind it, barging in through the front entrance, or going through the hole in the fence. In Crysis 2 everything is far more constrained and linear, not necessarily for the better.
If Crytek had tried to make the cities more open - yes it would have taken longer to create, but how much of an achievement would it have been? To have the open battlefields of the first game and the detail of the second game COMBINED.
Crysis 2 became far more 'generic' because of the changes: the more linear environments, the lack of strategy and options, as well as the complete change of multiplayer. Don't get me wrong, Crysis 2 is good, and definitely nowhere near as generic as Call of Duty or Medal of Honor (the new one that is). It's a great game on it's own legs, but a terrible sequel, which is the same description I use for Dawn of War 2.
Below are some links to people who share some of my thoughts. They never go into details, rather they give generalisations.
These two videos below are of Crysis Warhead, but they show the Crysis gameplay at its finest. Imagine this - in a city environment. It would've been hard, but it could've been done (perhaps if they had a larger budget).
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