JimB said:
Flaws arguments (abrasive, fear, violent )
It seems you may not understand what a character flaw is. Its a malfunction in an otherwise normally functioning person in each of these situations you are describing rationality not flaws.
Ren for example has little control over his emotions this is evident throughout the film. Fin tends to never thinks things through. These are character flaws because bad things happen.
Its normal to be abrasive when tensions are high, its normal to try and shoot the people who are trying to kill you and your friends, and if you recall she was attempting to draw them away from the droid. Its normal and part of the heroes journey to refuse the call of destiny. These aren't patterns of behavior.
JimB said:
Droids aren't people, and it really is a flaw in a world where survival is so far from assured as it is on Jakku. Seriously, all it takes is for her to swallow wrong and she's miles from anyone who can give her the Heimlich. And that's ignoring that her job as a scavenger suffers because two people could work more efficiently to share profits.
You may be confusing "is currently alone" with "is a loner" since given the opportunity she becomes very quickly attached to Fin and is about to go flying round with Han and Chewie although 10mins later she does say she's going to go back to Jakku, seemingly forgetting about the job offer. Really it's just bad writing more than anything. Maybe people don't want to work with her because her boss swindles her on parts.
Why aren't droids people? or at least people-esque. They seem to be able to talk and emote. And she saved it from the not-jawa which is rather highly empathic towards people she doesn't know/care for. Is there a skill diverse reason I'm not seeing why she wouldn't just sell the droid for 40 portions?
JimB said:
And that is a rude attempt to dismiss my point about specialization versus generalization without ever actually addressing any of the support I offer for it, thinking insulting me is close enough to presenting a logical argument. For the record, the attempt at deflection is not working.
Oh that's because I didn't think you were serious since you have literally zero evidence for that and it's not relevant, that's why you were dismissed. Its not how many it's how do you know things you have no way of knowing. This only even makes sense if you think that people in the military get no sort of general training before choosing ( or assignment) into specialization.
JimB said:
Rey's boss is the one who was modifying the Millennium Falcon. I don't one hundred percent remember if she explicitly said she was involved in the work (though I feel like she did), but I'll treat her as if she didn't and we'll just have to assume that she was involved based on that knowledge.
No, she didn't as far as we know she's a scavenger. And are we just going to let that one go? How to fix the poison gas problem and that you can just bypass a compressor without destroying a ship about to jump to hyperspace and also what that part would look like?
JimB said:
And yes, Stormtroopers can't fly. They are specialists. I already said this in the paragraph you insulted me for. They are trained and bred to die, so they lack life skills. Rey was not trained to die, and it was already established in Episode IV that Luke being able to fly the hovering equivalent of a pickup truck equates to being able to fly an F-14 in combat situations with no training necessary, a fact which no one in the Rebellion comments on or thinks is odd, so this is clearly a universe where being able to pilot one kind of vehicle translates to being able to fly any kind of vehicle, even in a dogfight.
At this point you say stormtroopers can't fly their own ships because their too specialized in things that aren't directly related to their military training. You did hear the thing near the beginning of the movie where they imply all the new storm troopers are conditioned from infancy to be soldiers since they aren't clones any more.
But yes, I personally buy into the idea that a teenager who's hellbent on joining the resistance and works with heavy machinery and at least had time and reason to be instructed after reaching the rebel base, may know how to fly a ship designed for one person better than a girl flying a half broken ship designed to be piloted by two. Also she's better than the people whose job it is to be able to fly them.
JimB said:
Rey did not have intimate knowledge of Han's transport ship; you are just making that up. She had to guess where the circuits she wanted were and crawl around in search of them, and she was wrong about which ones she thought she was closing.
And you know If this wasn't the only scene where she screws something up due to being so cocksure it would have been a really cool one were it not for basically everything else she does in this film. But she does know what fuses on an alien ship look like and how to work that console she uses to save Fin.
This isn't even that bad its just with everything else it only can add to the pile.
JimB said:
Similarly, you are making that up about the knowledge of hatches on the Star Killer base. She didn't jump over the edge of the cliff because she knew a thing she needed was there; she did it because Stormtroopers were going to catch her if she didn't jump. That a hatch she needed was right there was nothing more than what they at Cinema Sins would (rightly) call a sin of convenience.
Here's the biggest problem with all of these things is that things go too well, way to often with out explanation. I suppose you could go with stupid and lucky but that's worse. And since the movie isn't out of theaters yet I can't double check this but I do recall her looking down and going straight for the big lever.
JimB said:
As for her Force abilities, sorry, but I can't care about this. Luke did infinitely more impressive things on no training. Yeah, Obi-Wan taught him how to have foresight over the course of fifteen minutes of training on the way to Alderaan, but remember that in the original trilogy, before the power creep of the extended universe and the video games and the canon-contradicting prequels set in, Obi-Wan did not display any telekinetic powers, only telepathic ones. We have to assume he simply didn't possess the ability to move things with his mind in the original movie, and therefore he couldn't have taught Luke how to do so, but Luke nevertheless possesses the titanic, frankly terrifying telekinetic powers to overcome the velocity and inertia of two torpedoes in mid-flight, make them make a ninety-degree turn into an aperture barely big enough to accommodate them without them impacting on the surface like they did when the guy with a targeting computer designed specifically for that purpose did, and then correct their flight to level out so they'd fly down the exhaust port to the reactor. When you think about the energy and the control it takes to do such a thing, no one in any of the six movies that followed did anything half as impressive. Even Palpatine conjuring lightning from the air isn't that impressive, so if Rey has less training but still accomplishes less than Luke did? Whatever. The Force apparently doesn't require that much in the way of training to start with, to judge by how fast Luke picks it up.
That's a really fancy way to say "could feel the right time to fire missiles". This wasn't impossible, if they had thought you needed psychokinetic powers to make the shot they probably wouldn't have used that plan at all. What would have been the point of any of the other pilots even trying? Doesn't even matter though what does is her ability to best Kylo (a person trained by both Luke and Snoke) in force related activities 3 times to one and learn how to Jedi mind trick on the spot.
We even have an example of why this is so stupid, Attack of the clones, Dooku and Yoda can't throw stuff at each other since they are "equal in their use of the force". Recall Rylo trying to get the Lightsabre near the end, She just takes it like it's nothing. Unless Kylo is actually Darth Wimp lo and they trained him wrong as a joke, there is no reason this should happen ever.
JimB said:
I never heard anyone say that. I only heard them bitching about how Joss Whedon clearly thinks any woman who can't get pregnant is a monster (which, again, is not what that scene actually says).
Pretty neat, I have no more interest in arguing this particular semantic point.
