Why do people seem to think Gamepads are better than KB+M?
- Thread starter Gankytim
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If I'm at my computer the I use keyboard mouse. If I'm at the console then I use a controller. I honestly don't care which one I'm using.
Oh, I see someone beat me to it. Just a matter of preference. The truth is that the difference in control just isn't that stark.lacktheknack said:
Such is common with anything in which the biggest difference is just preference.ticklefist said:
Honestly, I think it comes down to taste. I've tried to get into KB & M, but a gamepad just comes an order of magnitude more naturally to me. You're completely right that some games just work better using a keyboard and mouse, especially when it requires precise aiming; however, I'll generally still use a gamepad for these games, just because I'll enjoy it better.
Of course, I don't play many shooters, and when I do I don't generally play games where shooting is a core gameplay mechanic. (Plus first person gameplay makes me motion sick, so the whole first person shooter thing never comes up.)
When I play Skyrim or Morrowind, I do tend to prefer melee over ranged attacks, and that's probably in no small part because I'm using a gamepad. (When I play Fallout 3, I rely strongly on VATS!) But I just really don't like WASD, really -- and I use a trackball mouse anyhow, to help with my carpal tunnel, which isn't as precise for shooting quickly as a normal mouse would be.
Of course, I don't play many shooters, and when I do I don't generally play games where shooting is a core gameplay mechanic. (Plus first person gameplay makes me motion sick, so the whole first person shooter thing never comes up.)
When I play Skyrim or Morrowind, I do tend to prefer melee over ranged attacks, and that's probably in no small part because I'm using a gamepad. (When I play Fallout 3, I rely strongly on VATS!) But I just really don't like WASD, really -- and I use a trackball mouse anyhow, to help with my carpal tunnel, which isn't as precise for shooting quickly as a normal mouse would be.
Wholly depends on the game. I feel like 3rd person character action games are harder to control with KB&M because you have that 8 directional control and that's it. There's also a matter of control by degrees. A joystick can have you move slowly left or right, a keyboard just has LEFT and RIGHT. That's more important in something like a racing game.
Meanwhile, the controller is generally less effective at games which require high precision. If you put a KB&M user against a controller user in an FPS, the KB&M user will usually come out on top. Finally, I find that controllers are utterly useless when it comes to RTS games. I'm sure some people can play them with a controller, but I just find it impossible.
It usually ends up depending on what you're comfortable with, but sometimes one is clearly a better choice, once you get used to it.
Meanwhile, the controller is generally less effective at games which require high precision. If you put a KB&M user against a controller user in an FPS, the KB&M user will usually come out on top. Finally, I find that controllers are utterly useless when it comes to RTS games. I'm sure some people can play them with a controller, but I just find it impossible.
It usually ends up depending on what you're comfortable with, but sometimes one is clearly a better choice, once you get used to it.
The question of whether a gamepad is better than keyboard and mouse depends greatly on the game, and the player.
Take for example the game Fruit Ninja, I reckon it'll be very awkward to play using anything but a touch screen. However a game that traditionally thought only enjoyable with a joystick like freelancer proves that keyboard and mouse can be just as effective if the game was design with it in mind.
Personally I found action adventure games better with a gamepad and everything else better with K+M, I actually prefer using keyboards for fighting games, every touch is precise and fast, I can press down+forward+punch (hadoken) on a keyboard much faster and more comfortable than sliding my thumb from down to forward on a controller which is made worst if you're using the x360 controller since their D-pad sucks.
I think every game should allow us to play with whichever controller of our choosing and allow us to customize it as we pleased, I still remembered spending hours tweaking the controls and macros when playing WoW, using ESDF keys instead of WASD for movement and placing all the skill keys around ESDF. The result is I get access to all my skills much much faster and my performance soar.
The thing is: try new things, try using a gamepad to play RTS even if it don't make sense, you might like it and even if you don't you'll have a new experience, and most of all have fun.
Take for example the game Fruit Ninja, I reckon it'll be very awkward to play using anything but a touch screen. However a game that traditionally thought only enjoyable with a joystick like freelancer proves that keyboard and mouse can be just as effective if the game was design with it in mind.
Personally I found action adventure games better with a gamepad and everything else better with K+M, I actually prefer using keyboards for fighting games, every touch is precise and fast, I can press down+forward+punch (hadoken) on a keyboard much faster and more comfortable than sliding my thumb from down to forward on a controller which is made worst if you're using the x360 controller since their D-pad sucks.
I think every game should allow us to play with whichever controller of our choosing and allow us to customize it as we pleased, I still remembered spending hours tweaking the controls and macros when playing WoW, using ESDF keys instead of WASD for movement and placing all the skill keys around ESDF. The result is I get access to all my skills much much faster and my performance soar.
The thing is: try new things, try using a gamepad to play RTS even if it don't make sense, you might like it and even if you don't you'll have a new experience, and most of all have fun.
This is something im torn about. I grew up with both, and love them both as they are tools needed for their specific genres. I love the precision of a mouse for aiming/camera, but im not in loge with using WASD to move a character around in 3rd person games. I also recently realized how much i enjoy rumble, its something thats taken for granted a lot but for me it really adds something to the experience. Also, for fps games pulling a trigger feels more natural than clicking a button, but i cant sacrifice the precision of a mouse to have that.
Also, i should bring up the wiimote. Even though the PC port of RE4 has amazingly better graphics, the badassery of popping headshots with the wiimote makes the wii version superior despite the worse graphics. Plus that sharpshooter thing for the ps3, what little i played of resistance 3 with it felt fucking awesome.
Theres advantages to almost all the input methods, and i wish i could take the best of all of them and use that, but im fine with making a judgement call on a game to game basis. Just use what makes you feel comfortable, theres not much fun in forcing yourself to be uncomfortable even for an "objective advantage".
Also, i should bring up the wiimote. Even though the PC port of RE4 has amazingly better graphics, the badassery of popping headshots with the wiimote makes the wii version superior despite the worse graphics. Plus that sharpshooter thing for the ps3, what little i played of resistance 3 with it felt fucking awesome.
Theres advantages to almost all the input methods, and i wish i could take the best of all of them and use that, but im fine with making a judgement call on a game to game basis. Just use what makes you feel comfortable, theres not much fun in forcing yourself to be uncomfortable even for an "objective advantage".
Easier to sit back on the couch with a controller, unless you have one of those lap desks (even so, wrist angle is usually bad). I tried playing an MMO from my couch, it wasn't optimal from a reclining position.
Still, for tacticals and dungeon crawlers, I prefer kb&m. It's all dependent on the control scheme of the game. Generally, a controller means simplified controls.
My fave way to play an mmo/dungeon crawler from the couch is w/ a wireless touchpad (in lieu of mousepad), or one of those numlock pads with the directionals.
Still, for tacticals and dungeon crawlers, I prefer kb&m. It's all dependent on the control scheme of the game. Generally, a controller means simplified controls.
My fave way to play an mmo/dungeon crawler from the couch is w/ a wireless touchpad (in lieu of mousepad), or one of those numlock pads with the directionals.
Pretty much because you have a generation of gamers who grew up using what was essentially the same controller through 2-3 console generation that have graduated to PC gaming and have a hard time changing so they cling to the familiarity.
Note that plenty of people are capable of doing both, and one of the benefits of PC is that its openness allows you to do that. I'm talking about people that want to use their 360 gamepad for everything on PC, even when it's the weaker input.
Note that plenty of people are capable of doing both, and one of the benefits of PC is that its openness allows you to do that. I'm talking about people that want to use their 360 gamepad for everything on PC, even when it's the weaker input.
Because they are used to gamepads so they see no reason to switch to something that they arent used to and therefore find uncomfortable. Which was the case with me, the first time i tried playing a shooter on PC i completely sucked at it even though none of my friends could beat me on a console.
This is the catch:
Mouse by far provides superior control and reaction time to any joystick.
But using the keyboard, in my opinion, is inferior to using well placed buttons on a game pad.
The ideal, in my mind, would be to somehow create a gaming controller for the lefthand, and a gaming mouse for the right hand, to get the best of both worlds. Of course you'd probably want to make things ambidextrous for lefties.
Mouse by far provides superior control and reaction time to any joystick.
But using the keyboard, in my opinion, is inferior to using well placed buttons on a game pad.
The ideal, in my mind, would be to somehow create a gaming controller for the lefthand, and a gaming mouse for the right hand, to get the best of both worlds. Of course you'd probably want to make things ambidextrous for lefties.
I'm the complete opposite. I originally learned to FPS on the N64 controller (which unfortunately doesn't prepare you AT ALL, for a double joystick setup), and then learned to do mouse and keyboard before my brother eventually got an XBOX360.kasperbbs said:
For instance, I am pretty terrible at Left 4 Dead 2 on the Xbox, but on the PC it's kind of easy.
I've also discovered I'm terrible at Halo, regardless of the platform lol
Because it is better for some people for some games. I started on consoles, and as such, I am very comfortable with controllers. However, when I started playing PC games as well, the games were completely different types of games (adventure/platforming vs. 4X/FPS/RTS) and thus for me it mainly comes down to the genre, and even sometimes the game (and usually not the platform).
Interesting, I just remembered something before the 'standardization' of the controller. I started on an Atari 2600, which was mainly a joystick with 1 button (right hand on stick, left hand for button) and a paddle with no buttons. The jump to NES wasn't too big of a deal, but there was a slight learning curve switching hands, but definitely better to have 2 options for the button hand instead of just 1. But the jump to the SNES was a big deal; 2 buttons to 6 buttons was a such a HUGE jump, plus we had to use our thumbs AND fingers. It was hard enough to remember what buttons did what, but even the muscle memory takes time (I actually really hate Xbox for flipping the face buttons. B is on the bottom, not the right
). Then, holy shit - N64 controller - where do you put your hands?! Will we need 3 hands to play this right?! Since then, the controllers have become pretty standard, the last real innovation was the analog sticks and now all basic controllers are some variation of the GC/PS2/Xbox setup with 2 analog sticks, a cross-pad, 4 main face buttons, and 2 sets of 2 shoulder buttons. (ok, they have motion, but still pretty underused) (oh, the Wii/Wii U still use them, at least the classic controller, pro controller and Wiipad all do).
Point is: Controllers have became standardized, but it used to be that you'd have to learn each new one. Now it's pretty much pick up and play no matter what system, just what do you prefer. K+M, you just learn WASD and mouse and you're generally good to go - and it's been that way for even longer. Learning how to type helps though for key location memorization.
Interesting, I just remembered something before the 'standardization' of the controller. I started on an Atari 2600, which was mainly a joystick with 1 button (right hand on stick, left hand for button) and a paddle with no buttons. The jump to NES wasn't too big of a deal, but there was a slight learning curve switching hands, but definitely better to have 2 options for the button hand instead of just 1. But the jump to the SNES was a big deal; 2 buttons to 6 buttons was a such a HUGE jump, plus we had to use our thumbs AND fingers. It was hard enough to remember what buttons did what, but even the muscle memory takes time (I actually really hate Xbox for flipping the face buttons. B is on the bottom, not the right
). Then, holy shit - N64 controller - where do you put your hands?! Will we need 3 hands to play this right?! Since then, the controllers have become pretty standard, the last real innovation was the analog sticks and now all basic controllers are some variation of the GC/PS2/Xbox setup with 2 analog sticks, a cross-pad, 4 main face buttons, and 2 sets of 2 shoulder buttons. (ok, they have motion, but still pretty underused) (oh, the Wii/Wii U still use them, at least the classic controller, pro controller and Wiipad all do).Point is: Controllers have became standardized, but it used to be that you'd have to learn each new one. Now it's pretty much pick up and play no matter what system, just what do you prefer. K+M, you just learn WASD and mouse and you're generally good to go - and it's been that way for even longer. Learning how to type helps though for key location memorization.
I'm a PC gamer and I use both for different games. Nowadays, we're blessed with more and more console ports, despite their questionable quality, most of those games are meant to be played with a controller, wether by lazy port design or because it simply does feel better with a controller.
Obviously I'm not playing Hearthstone or Civilization with a controller, but also I'm NEVER playing Dark Souls or Sonic Racing Transformed with a M+KB.
So yeah, different games and genres with different options to play.
Obviously I'm not playing Hearthstone or Civilization with a controller, but also I'm NEVER playing Dark Souls or Sonic Racing Transformed with a M+KB.
So yeah, different games and genres with different options to play.
I wholeheartedly disagree here... well sort of. Trigger buttons I'll give you, but face buttons? While a gamepad will have the better buttons, but hitting buttons with your fingers is far more effective than using a single thumb. And I have definitive proof! Back in the old NES days when you had games where the gameplay was all about how fast you could push a button, my family who used our fingers absolutely slaughtered any other kid using the 'Nintendo thumb'!zehydra said:
Though it's not noticeable if the game is slow enough, like a JRPG. But for some console like games on PC such as Ys or Dust: An Elysium Tale I exclusively use the keyboard.
For shooters, K&M easily takes the cake.
For platformers and other such games, gamepads are better due to extra precision of the analog sticks.
For platformers and other such games, gamepads are better due to extra precision of the analog sticks.
Here we go again eh?
I am so confused about this, as people seem to have locked their brain into "it either has to be this, or it has to be that"
I have the 360 controller for my PC. Even though I've been a PC gamer for the longest time, I got that thing because it can do something my keyboard can't, and never will be able to do without radically changing into something else entierly
See here is the thing, there is a difference between analog and digital signals. They excell at different things.
Different things is just better with different input. Mouse has accuarcy and speed, but it is terrible if you want to throttle something. As for the keyboard, it's wonderful with all the buttons, but it just can't do smooth curvy movement or adjust speed smoothly.
It doesn't really matter what you like better, the fact of the matter is that in different situations, one of the input methods is superior, but not always and not at everything.
Imo, every device should have equal support for controller AND keyboard/mouse, the fact that they are not doing that yet is just baffeling to me.
I am so confused about this, as people seem to have locked their brain into "it either has to be this, or it has to be that"
I have the 360 controller for my PC. Even though I've been a PC gamer for the longest time, I got that thing because it can do something my keyboard can't, and never will be able to do without radically changing into something else entierly
See here is the thing, there is a difference between analog and digital signals. They excell at different things.
Different things is just better with different input. Mouse has accuarcy and speed, but it is terrible if you want to throttle something. As for the keyboard, it's wonderful with all the buttons, but it just can't do smooth curvy movement or adjust speed smoothly.
It doesn't really matter what you like better, the fact of the matter is that in different situations, one of the input methods is superior, but not always and not at everything.
Imo, every device should have equal support for controller AND keyboard/mouse, the fact that they are not doing that yet is just baffeling to me.