Why do people STILL bash FFX-2?

[Olrod]

I can understand in a strict comparison to Final Fantasy X, X-2 is a completely different game, but why do people seem to use that as their sole base of opinion and justification for deriding FFX-2?

FFX-2 "haters" never seem to try and acknowledge X-2's merits as if it were a stand-alone game, it would be like people criticising Sonic the Hedgehog for no reason other than "it's not Mario".

Imagine if you'd NEVER played Final Fantasy X, and X-2 was your first introduction to the world of Spira. Is it really such a bad game, on it's own merits?

If people's opinion of a game is based on something that isn't THAT game (regardless of whether it's supposed to be a prequel, sequel, or remake) then I consider their opinion invalid.

If you're going to criticise a game, then criticise THAT GAME, don't criticise it with the mindset of "the sequel/prequel/remake of _____".

 

[Harbinger_]

You're referring to Yahtzee's comparison to AC:B I presume?

The game was full of ditzy female characters that perpetuated gender stereotypes especially the 'garment grid'. It was terribly cliche and played out like a cross between Charlie's Angels and Sailor Moon. Not only this but every single character seemed like they literally lost all of their brain cells upon transitioning from Final Fantasy X to Final Fantasy X-2.

Every single line of dialogue was horribly delivered as well. It was fan-service plain and simple plus the skimpy costumes? I mean, seriously. Sexualizing characters and trying to appeal to fans and doing it very poorly. Alot of the characters we enjoyed from the first game barely even show up in this sequel not to mention the horrible mini-games.

 

[Olrod]

You're referring to Yahtzee's comparison to AC:B I presume?

Actually no, I wasn't. I was unaware of any such comparison. Although now that you mention it, where would I find this?

I was reading some posts in the Thread about Square Enix sacking people responsible for FFXIV, and someone made a comment which inspired this little rantette.

 

[Harbinger_]

You're referring to Yahtzee's comparison to AC:B I presume?

Actually no, I wasn't. I was unaware of any such comparison. Although now that you mention it, where would I find this?

I was reading some posts in the Thread about Square Enix sacking people responsible for FFXIV.

Latest video about Assassin's Creed Brotherhood.

 

[Rainboq]

>.>

Never heard any complaints outside the Yahtzee vid

 

[Dr. Paine]

Eh... it's just fanservice and fluff, though there were some good points. But it was also fun to play, a change of pace for the series, and still kicks FFX's ass three ways from Sunday. Most people just felt it was too much a change, too shallow (which I somewhat agree on- now, if the plot focused on the Crimson Squad thing, that would have been much more interesting), and other little gripes.

Whether or not you like it is entirely dependent on how much fun for the sake of fun can hold up a game for you.

 

[Leemaster777]

Before I begin, let me just say that I HATE X-2. Hate. It.

But for the sake of the topic, I'll just assume that Final Fantasy X doesn't exist. Lets just say that X-2 is a stand-alone game.

In that context, it's less bad... but it's still bad. I'm not a fan of ATB systems in RPGs, and while I sometimes make exceptions to this, X-2 isn't one of them. I'm also not a fan of the mission-based structure of the game. It works in some games... but not here.

Also, the story just isn't great. Nothing special. When compared to X, it fails miserably... but on it's own, its merely "okay" at best. X-2 also pulls a major dick move and doesn't give you the TRUE ending unless you do everything PEFECTLY on your first playthrough. You're telling me I just spent 20+ hours playing this shit, and you don't even have the decency to give me a proper ending? Christ.

As a previous poster noted, it's also nothing but fanservice, pure and simple. Both in the sense of skimpy outfits, and in the sense that it only exists because X was so popular. There was no need to continue the story, but they tried to squeeze a new story out of what was left, to milk X for every penny they could.

Then there's the lackluster blitzball, the multiple pop concerts (seriously, what was the point of those?), and the lack of any meaningful new characters, and that's enough, just on it's own, to make the game "bad".

I could go on listing all the things that became worse between the two games, but hey, let's judge it on it's own, like the TC said.

 

[Flying-Emu]

It gets by me for the sole fact that Tidus isn't a major party member.

I hate that whiny punk.

 

[Ashcrexl]

yep. terrible game. a fun combat system wrapped in a horrible everything else. the story, characters, tone, music, just awful. why are people still bashing this game? because it is still terrible.

 

[Wolfenbarg]

Sorry, but you can't look at a direct sequel as a stand-alone game, that wouldn't even make sense. Why can't I compare Mass Effect 2 to Mass Effect? Is that wrong? The major issue is that it isn't a logical follow-up. I get that Yuna has grown up and broken out of her incredibly reserved shell, but pop star? Really? The entire plot was just asinine on top of that. In a nutshell, it was this:

Yuna: Hey, it's Tidus!
Yuna: Oh wait... nevermind, no it isn't.
END

On the plus side, it has a great battle system and job switching... the battle systems with job switching have always been my favorite, and this may just be the best of the three.

 

[DeadlyYellow]

If you're going to criticize a game, then criticize THAT GAME, don't criticize it with the mindset of "the sequel/prequel/remake of _____".

So, we're not to hold to sequels as sequels?

 

[Frotality]

that mindset of yours is exactly what lets developers improve jack all with sequels and still sell. the problem with seeing it as a stand alone game is that it isnt a stand alone game. viewed on its own merits, i probably would have hated return of the jedi. viewed on its own merits (any merit, really), godfather 3 is still a terrible movie.

i seem to have exactly the opposite experience with this than you. sure, compared to FFX, X-2 is horrible; compared to FF7, FFX is horrible; i can see your point in that regard; but if anything sequels damn well need to be compared to the original. the original is, well, original, and sequels need to reflect some effort on the part of the developers to improve and expand upon the original idea. for the most part, the FF series has made notable efforts to change up and improve with every installment, and has actually started whole new storylines (albeit with the damn same character types and overall plot) with most of them. making a direct sequel is much different than the change from say FF7 to FF8. with a direct sequel developers should be expected to improve and expand upon the gameplay of the first; a direct sequel needs to be bigger and better, if they wanted to start a whole new thing (as whole new as JRPs get anyway), than they shouldve just made it a seperate story like FF8. sure, alot of people disliked 8, but as you know, they wouldve hated it much more if it tried to continue the story and characters (or their sisters or whatever) of FF7.

X-2 was a radically unproductive tonal shift and should be killed with fire. on its own merits, it isnt nearly as bad, but judging it by its own merits completely ignores the fact that the developers have done this 10 times before and much more should be expected from them.

so yeah; judging X-2 by itself paints a less negative picture, but such is the purpose of willing ignorance and denial. if we dont hold developers to some standard with sequels.... than they wont ever improve upon them. if they wanted to make a whole new game, than thats what they should have done. as it stands, X-2 is an almost cocky attempt by square to sell a game soley based off of being a sequel to FFX.

ill judge any game by its own merits, so long as the developers make it by the same philosophy. if a game is made to continue a previous game, then i conversely judge it by that previous game. i guess to tend to judge the developer more than the game, but hey, someone needs to keep em from slacking.

 

[Erana]

As a previous poster noted, it's also nothing but fanservice, pure and simple. Both in the sense of skimpy outfits, and in the sense that it only exists because X was so popular.

Generally, this.

I never really cared that much for X or X-2, but X-2 bothered me so much because it ruined almost any sincerity of the characters and real tragedy of the first game. I mean, Yuna was ready to die to help others, and then in X-2, she says, "Forget this, I'm going shopping! treasure hunting! And I'm gonna be a famous popstar too, while I'm at it."

I can respect FFX in terms of modern JRPG-ness, but FFX-2? No. Its a big collection of nonsensical minigames set in the world of its superior precursor.
And keep in mind, I playedFFx-2 before I really ever got anywhere in FFX.

But more importantly, the White mage avatar.
[small]*unsheaths hammer with a Shing!*[/small]

There can be only one.

 

[Internet Kraken]

It gets by me for the sole fact that Tidus isn't a major party member.

I hate that whiny punk.

True, but Rikku is still there, and plays a much larger role apparently. That makes the game much worse for me.

 

[viranimus]

To answer the question If X didnt exist, would you still look down on X-2?

Yes, pretty much because X-2 was built on the contingencies of the existence of X.. So eventhough it might not seem possible, without the foundation of X.. It would make X-2 even more incomprehensible.

The hate is the overwhelming Jpop/charlies angels nonsense present usually

But the real true reason why it is truly reviled IMHO has to be because it basically vomits all over everything set forth in X, thus neutering alot of the narrative set forth in X in a rainbow happy, chibi stream of vomit.

That said.. I played it to completion. I wasnt real happy with it, but at the same time I can see that it doesnt entirely deserve ALL the hate it receives.. but that percentage is still well over 50%

 

[Flying-Emu]

It gets by me for the sole fact that Tidus isn't a major party member.

I hate that whiny punk.

True, but Rikku is still there, and plays a much larger role apparently. That makes the game much worse for me.

The only characters in that game worth caring about were Wakka, Kimahri, and Auron.

Rikku was annoying (Seriously? Who the fuck would call Yuna "Yunnie" in the first place?), Yuna was... bleh, (she reminded me of Colette from the first two acts of Tales of Symphonia), and Lulu was - omg bewbz

 

[Austin Howe]

Would you like the statement: "Bcause it's shit."? Seriously, especially when SquareEnix has yet to
A) Give fans the remakes and sequels they wanted (I'm looking at you Final Fantasy VII "franchise"),

B) Give more priority (or AAA development assistance) to their 3rd-party developers, like Tri-Ace,

or C) NOT DELAY KINGDOM HEARTS II INTO FUCKING OBLIVION AND THEN HAVE IT BE SHIT WHEN THE FUCKER FINALLY CAME OUT

a sequel to one of their worst games was completely uncalled for, and is a real testament to how many bad decisions can be made at a company that is usually good.

To make my complaints about the game a short list, let it be known that my list of complaints is equivalent in length and width to THE AMOUNT OF CLOTHES THE MAIN CHARACTERS ARE NOT WEARING, which is, in itself, the first complaint.

 

[Leemaster777]

As a previous poster noted, it's also nothing but fanservice, pure and simple. Both in the sense of skimpy outfits, and in the sense that it only exists because X was so popular.

Generally, this.

I never really cared that much for X or X-2, but X-2 bothered me so much because it ruined almost any sincerity of the characters and real tragedy of the first game. I mean, Yuna was ready to die to help others, and then in X-2, she says, "Forget this, I'm going shopping! treasure hunting! And I'm gonna be a famous popstar too, while I'm at it."

I can respect FFX in terms of modern JRPG-ness, but FFX-2? No. Its a big collection of nonsensical minigames set in the world of its superior precursor.

But more importantly, the White mage avatar.
[small]*unsheaths hammer with a Shing!*[/small]

There can be only one.

Thank you. I can respect that you didn't like X (everyone's entitled to their opinions), but I'm glad you can recognize that X-2 is just BAD.

I wanted to stick to the TC's rules, but one thing I have to get off my chest about this game is that it's just LAZY.

Basically everything is reused from the first game. Almost all the cannon-fodder enemies are recycled from X, and X-2 even makes the unforgivable sin of reusing bosses, even the final boss. Plus, 90% of the areas are just imported from X, with no changes to speak of.

I never, never get tired of bashing this game. Because it really DOES deserve it. This is the only game I've ever played that I truely HATE. I've played games I didn't like, but this is the only game that actually pisses me off that it exists.

 

[Veldaroth]

You're referring to Yahtzee's comparison to AC:B I presume?

The game was full of ditzy female characters that perpetuated gender stereotypes especially the 'garment grid'. It was terribly cliche and played out like a cross between Charlie's Angels and Sailor Moon. Not only this but every single character seemed like they literally lost all of their brain cells upon transitioning from Final Fantasy X to Final Fantasy X-2.

Every single line of dialogue was horribly delivered as well. It was fan-service plain and simple plus the skimpy costumes? I mean, seriously. Sexualizing characters and trying to appeal to fans and doing it very poorly. Alot of the characters we enjoyed from the first game barely even show up in this sequel not to mention the horrible mini-games.

Mostly this
Also, I didn't like X or X-2, so you'd think being different would have been a good thing for it, but it didn't help.
Oh, and I'm a girl, so the whole fan service thing creeped me out more than anything...