Why do people think English is the hardest language to learn?

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Fbuh

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It's not so much that English is the hardest, but it's what you are used to. Eastern languages would be easier to learn by Eastern peoples, while Western languages would be easier by Western standards. However, English is changing constantly. It has many rules that also contradict other rules, as well as special situations in which you really have to go by your understanding of the English language as a whole. Not to mention that new words are being added daily. To a person from a different language, that's pretty damn difficult. Most languages have set rules and structures, but English is more or less an amalgamation of European languages. Interestingly, what most people don't actually know is that it's really a Germanic language.
 

Xero Scythe

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Anah said:
.. wut?

It's not. It's pretty much the easiest out there.
No, it's actually the hardest for non-natives. English has so many dipthongs, silent letters, slang terms, and exceptions to the rules it is incredibly difficult for anyone to learn it after childhood.
 

Naeo

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-massive snip-
Okay wow you just deconstructed most of my arguments. I've studies two years worth of German so I'm familiar with it; yeah, it has its own god-awful things (for me it was always plurals and whether a noun was die/der/das. Our teacher gave us a list of what he called "fairly encompassing" endings for masculine/feminine nouns, e.g. a noun ending in -e with more than one syllable is usually feminine).

To counter/discuss/etc some points you made:

1. When you mention the six endings for German verbs, that is admittedly another thing to memorize but it's fairly trivial; within less than a week, most people can tell you what person/number a present tense verb is. Compare to Latin, where every verb (save deoponent, semideponent/defective, and most impersonal verbs) has over 120 ways to conjugate it, and there are four different verb classes ("conjugations") that have slightly different rules, primarily for the perfect tense stem. Parallels exist in the modern-day Romance languages and most eastern European languages. Adjectives have 30+ forms depending on what kind of adjective it is. German(and Germanic languages' in general) verbs are comparatively simple. Additioally, your point about verbs being nouns in German applies in English as well- "I love to run" uses the infinitive as a noun; "I love running" uses the gerund as a noun. However, I do have to cede that in German you must learn gender, based either on the large list of what masculine/feminine/neuter nouns usually end in or more likely just as a vocabulary entry, and their genitive forms. One-up on English for difficulty.

2. Correction on tenses- five past tenses. Simple ("closed"), with "have" ("have closed"), with was (verb)ing ("was closing"), with did ("did close"), and with had ("had closed"; I grant it's the past tense of "have" but it is a different case none the less). Four if you count have/had verbed as one. And as pointed out above, the German present tense is not terrible complicated, though I grant it is more complicated than English's "add -s if it's he/she/it."

3. Point ceded. But yeah, the progressive tense only exists that I know of (almost certainly in places I don't know of as well, though) in Icelandic, where you would say literally "I am to read" ("ég er að lesa"). And I guess my point here was fairly invalid to begin with, because A) other languages have plenty of their own tenses (referencing Latin again, there's six (perfect/imperfect/pluperfect/present/future/future perfect), plus a passive for all of those and a subjunctive + subjunctive passive for four), and B) other isolating/minimally inflected languages form most of their tenses with auxiliary verbs, like English.

4. Yes, other languages do have spelling quirks, but (again, just in my experience) most other languages tend to be fairly uniform and there are some exceptions. English seems to have far more exceptions to its rules than most other languages- the G is zh in "genre", hard G in "god", and like a J in "judge". English spelling seems more out of whack than other languages to me.

5. Your point on vocabulary- I would imagine it doesn't make a whole lot of difference in terms of learning the language if you have to learn one word and its different meanings based on context versus learning a different word entirely; you still have to store about the same amount of data. Though I must say that German compound nouns can be nicer than some of English's words (off the top of my head, only ambulance = Krankwagen ("sick car") comes to mind, not the best example). But those compounds can get nasty.

Ultimately, I would say that English is probably not all that hard to learn, or at least not moreso than any other language- I guess I kind of misrepresented that in my post, or more than kind of- but it has some (occasionally very noteworthy) snags. Though if, as you seemed to imply, you're a native German speaker, it might not be so hard as if you spoke, say, Russian or Finnish; the largest differences in English and German are mostly vocabulary, plus grammatical gender; the grammar aspects are fairly similar for being different languages, down to some of the idioms being almost verbatim (e.g., I believe "schlafen gehen" means the same as "to go to sleep" in English, which would be its literal translation. Not 100% sure on that, though, it's been three years since I studied any German :p). But some of the false friends are dicks (Gift = poison, for example. I can see some awkward situations with that one) English and Latin, though, or English and, say, Yoruba, are totally different worlds grammatically, vocabulary-wise, and semantically.

But then if we're going purely from a grammar standpoint, English shouldn't be that difficult to learn. The grammar is fairly straightforwards, it's jut learning the spoken version (as with literally every language on earth) versus the written/proper version that's more difficult. But then again, same goes for Chinese (almost a purely isolating language; almost no inflection at all).

Also I know I've probably got a few glaring inaccuracies/flat out wrong things in here, but it's 11:00 at night here and I'm tired as all hell. And as mentioned I studied two years of German three years ago (been studying Latin since), so I've an admittedly limited understanding.

EDIT:
Xero Scythe said:
Anah said:
.. wut?

It's not. It's pretty much the easiest out there.
No, it's actually the hardest for non-natives. English has so many dipthongs, silent letters, slang terms, and exceptions to the rules it is incredibly difficult for anyone to learn it after childhood.
Every language has dipthongs (oe, ao, ai, etc in Latin; ch, au, äu, ei, ie, etc in German; au, ey/ei, hv, fn, etc in Icelandic, and so on), and every language has extensive slang. That's not a particularly English-specific thing unless you're trying to speak to someone speaking in Cockney Rhyming Slang, in which case, I believe you are legally allowed to hit them with an English textbook. Also, it's incredibly difficult for anyone to learn any language after childhood; there's a certain window where you can acquire it without any difficulty (up to some age I don't know off the top of my head) and from there to around 14 is where you can acquire other languages with relative ease but still with difficulty; past that it becomes very, very difficult (increasingly so as you get older) no matter what the language.
 

'Aredor

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Jan 24, 2010
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It seems we see eye to eye on this one, but I'll comment on a few things nevertheless.

Naeo said:
1. When you mention the six endings for German verbs, that is admittedly another thing to memorize but it's fairly trivial; within less than a week, most people can tell you what person/number a present tense verb is. Compare to Latin...
They probably can tell which form it is if they see a word, because the ending is the same with most words, but coming up with them yourself is a bit more complicated because the stem often changes (dürfen: du darfst, er darf; können: du kannst, er kann; lesen: du liest, er liest). Agreed, it's way easier than in Latin, but that one is hard to beat.

2. Correction on tenses- five past tenses. Simple ("closed"), with "have" ("have closed"), with was (verb)ing ("was closing"), with did ("did close"), and with had ("had closed"; I grant it's the past tense of "have" but it is a different case none the less). Four if you count have/had verbed as one. And as pointed out above, the German present tense is not terrible complicated, though I grant it is more complicated than English's "add -s if it's he/she/it."
Well actually it's six tenses, three plus a progressive form for each one:
simple ("closed"), where you admittetly have to learn the past form if it's irregular
past progressive ("was closing"), which is just was + progressive form
present perfect ("have closed"), which is have + past form
present perfect progressive ("have been closing"), have + been + progressive form
past perfect ("had closed"), had + past form
past perfect progressive ("had been closed"), had + been + progressive form
"did close" is just the emphasis form of the simple past, and is achieved by did + infinite.
So my point stands, you just have to learn the past form and everything else is completely straightforward.
German has the same three, is missing the progressive form but has, as we pointed out, different versions for the equivalent to the simple past

English spelling seems more out of whack than other languages to me.
Definitely true, German only has only three of these problems I can think of: "ch" gets either pronounced like someone coughing up phlegm or like a snake hissing; it's never quite clear when "ck" is to be used (to pack is "packen", but a packet is a "paket"); and a surprisingly large amount of people have a problem distinguishing between "i" and "ie", the latter being a bit longer. A few problems we had in the past were fixed when we had our orthography reform [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_orthography_reform_of_1996], maybe you guys should do the same in English ;)

5. Your point on vocabulary- I would imagine it doesn't make a whole lot of difference in terms of learning the language if you have to learn one word and its different meanings based on context versus learning a different word entirely; you still have to store about the same amount of data.
Agreed, but hearing such a German word you have a problem if you only remember one of the meanings or fail to realize that the other meaning was intended.

But some of the false friends are dicks (Gift = poison, for example. I can see some awkward situations with that one)
Another few fun ones: Sympathie = affection instead of pity; brav = good, honest instead of valiant; Sinn = sense, meaning instead of, well, sin; sensibel = sensitive instead of something that makes sense.

But then if we're going purely from a grammar standpoint, English shouldn't be that difficult to learn. The grammar is fairly straightforwards, it's jut learning the spoken version (as with literally every language on earth) versus the written/proper version that's more difficult.
Completely agree; and it isn't helped by the fact that American English somewhat differentiates from British English, either.
 

SonicKoala

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It's not the hardest language in the world to learn, but suggesting it's "easy" is ridiculous. Perhaps it's "easy" in the sense that learning enough to barely scrape by is relatively simple, but as for mastering the language, good fucking luck. Anyone who has written an English essay in a University-level course will know exactly what I'm talking about - you think you've got everything down, and then you get a paper back covered with pen marks, correcting a plethora of grammatical mistakes, many of which you didn't even know were mistakes in the first place.
 

Turbo_Destructor

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This has probably already been said, but i have nothing better to do :)

English is extremely difficult as it does not follow it's own rules like other languages do. Italian, French and Spanish are largely based on Latin, and a lot of their words can conjugations can be traced back to Latin. Scandinavian and Germanic languages follow their own traditional conventions, as do asian laguages like Japanese and Mandarin etc. However, English combines elements of germanic AND latin, and does not follow it's own rules as strictly as other languages. Furthermore, English is not particularly phonetic - the same arrangement of letters can have radically different pronunciations: eg. sword is pronounced "sord", but if you take of the s and make it 'word', it is pronounced "wurd", however there are plenty of words that 's' does not affect in this way
 

cynikles

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deutschbag said:
Every language has its difficulties. In English its mostly spelling, pluralization and vocabulary. Every language has irregular verbs. In other languages its gender and number. For other languages there are other issues. Most linguists will tell you that all natural languages are about equally complex and difficult to learn.
I am a linguist and this is my favourite comment in this thread. Sanity at last!
 

MrNickster

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We have too many useless words that all mean the same thing.

Silly, absurd, unusual, confounded, vacuous, irregular, weird, stupid, idiotic, retarded, dumb, ridiculous and unintelligent all mean the same basic thing.
 

Naeo

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Yeah, it seems we see eye to eye. Not a whole lot to follow up on in that post but I've a few things.

They probably can tell which form it is if they see a word, because the ending is the same with most words, but coming up with them yourself is a bit more complicated because the stem often changes (dürfen: du darfst, er darf; können: du kannst, er kann; lesen: du liest, er liest). Agreed, it's way easier than in Latin, but that one is hard to beat.
Yes, Latin probably was a bad counter-example for a Germanic language/German. But I believe Classical Greek beats Latin by a long shot. And yeah, recognizing a form is usually the easiest where producing it is harder, but most languages have room for error- a German speaker will likely recognize that you mean to say "I can" if you say "Ich könne". Just like in English, adding -ed to the end of most verbs is a clear indication of being past tense, even if grammatically incorrect (buyed, haved, goed, etc).

2. Correction on tenses- five past tenses. Simple ("closed"), with "have" ("have closed"), with was (verb)ing ("was closing"), with did ("did close"), and with had ("had closed"; I grant it's the past tense of "have" but it is a different case none the less). Four if you count have/had verbed as one. And as pointed out above, the German present tense is not terrible complicated, though I grant it is more complicated than English's "add -s if it's he/she/it."
Well actually it's six tenses, three plus a progressive form for each one:
simple ("closed"), where you admittetly have to learn the past form if it's irregular
past progressive ("was closing"), which is just was + progressive form
present perfect ("have closed"), which is have + past form
present perfect progressive ("have been closing"), have + been + progressive form
past perfect ("had closed"), had + past form
past perfect progressive ("had been closed"), had + been + progressive form
"did close" is just the emphasis form of the simple past, and is achieved by did + infinite.
So my point stands, you just have to learn the past form and everything else is completely straightforward.
German has the same three, is missing the progressive form but has, as we pointed out, different versions for the equivalent to the simple past.
Oops, looks like I missed a few tenses in there :p But yeah, your point does stand about learning the past form- however, since sometimes people combine tenses strangely (I've heard "I will have had done" several times and at least once someone said with a straight face "I will have been about to be doing"), though admittedly rarely, the semantics of that can be confusing at times even to us native English speakers.

English spelling seems more out of whack than other languages to me.
Definitely true, German only has only three of these problems I can think of: "ch" gets either pronounced like someone coughing up phlegm or like a snake hissing; it's never quite clear when "ck" is to be used (to pack is "packen", but a packet is a "paket"); and a surprisingly large amount of people have a problem distinguishing between "i" and "ie", the latter being a bit longer. A few problems we had in the past were fixed when we had our orthography reform [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_orthography_reform_of_1996], maybe you guys should do the same in English ;)
Yeah, the k/ck thing never came up a whole lot in my class but I did notice it. And the rules for using ß instead of "ss" are annoying, because ultimately, as we were taught, ß = ss for all intents and purposes of pronunciation. But to the last point, oh god yes English needs a spelling reform. We native speakers would probably collectively flip our shit, but then again we'd have to be learning entire new spelling conventions at generally old ages. Although, during the early 1800s, America did have some spelling reform, which is where most of the differences in our spelling and British spelling came in (colour/armour/etc become color/armor/etc, connexion/etc become connection/etc, centre/metre/etc become center/meter/etc, and so on ad nauseum). Though Noah Webster [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster] of Webster's Dictionary fame proposed many spelling reforms that were ultimately never passed.

5. Your point on vocabulary- I would imagine it doesn't make a whole lot of difference in terms of learning the language if you have to learn one word and its different meanings based on context versus learning a different word entirely; you still have to store about the same amount of data.
Agreed, but hearing such a German word you have a problem if you only remember one of the meanings or fail to realize that the other meaning was intended.
Point, I had not considered that. It would be more difficult to remember different meanings for the same word, or extremely similar ones. Compare in Latin: liber, librī, "book", līber, lībera, līberum (adj), "free", first-person singular present passive subjunctive of [/i]lībō, lībāre,[/i] "to taste or sip; to pour as libation; to spill". Granted, the inflection really helps, but sometimes stuff like that can be confusing.

But some of the false friends are dicks (Gift = poison, for example. I can see some awkward situations with that one)
Another few fun ones: Sympathie = affection instead of pity; brav = good, honest instead of valiant; Sinn = sense, meaning instead of, well, sin; sensibel = sensitive instead of something that makes sense.
Isn't that just wonderful. Let's see what other ones I remember...
Fabrik = factory, not fabric.
Eis = ice or ice cream. (the "or ice cream" bit can confuse us Englishies)
aktuell = recent
also = then, where auch = also
bekommen = to get, recieve
Angel = fishing rod, I believe?
fast = almost
Yeah a lot of false friends in German, come to think of it.

But then if we're going purely from a grammar standpoint, English shouldn't be that difficult to learn. The grammar is fairly straightforwards, it's jut learning the spoken version (as with literally every language on earth) versus the written/proper version that's more difficult.
Completely agree; and it isn't helped by the fact that American English somewhat differentiates from British English, either.
Formal American/British aren't that different, but the spoken versions are VERY much so. E.G.:
In America, "pants" are what you put on your legs. In British, "pants" are your underwear.
In America, we call a tractor trailer/18 wheeler a "truck". In British, they're "Lorries".

And so on and so forth, and a British person is now probably going to correct my flagrant misunderstanding of their colloquialisms.
 

Naeo

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RAKtheUndead said:
Naeo said:
English spelling seems more out of whack than other languages to me.
Definitely true, German only has only three of these problems I can think of: "ch" gets either pronounced like someone coughing up phlegm or like a snake hissing; it's never quite clear when "ck" is to be used (to pack is "packen", but a packet is a "paket"); and a surprisingly large amount of people have a problem distinguishing between "i" and "ie", the latter being a bit longer. A few problems we had in the past were fixed when we had our orthography reform [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_orthography_reform_of_1996], maybe you guys should do the same in English ;)
Yeah, the k/ck thing never came up a whole lot in my class but I did notice it. And the rules for using ß instead of "ss" are annoying, because ultimately, as we were taught, ß = ss for all intents and purposes of pronunciation. But to the last point, oh god yes English needs a spelling reform. We native speakers would probably collectively flip our shit, but then again we'd have to be learning entire new spelling conventions at generally old ages. Although, during the early 1800s, America did have some spelling reform, which is where most of the differences in our spelling and British spelling came in (colour/armour/etc become color/armor/etc, connexion/etc become connection/etc, centre/metre/etc become center/meter/etc, and so on ad nauseum). Though Noah Webster [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster] of Webster's Dictionary fame proposed many spelling reforms that were ultimately never passed.
I think one of the major problems with a full-on orthography reform is that while the majority of English speakers live outside England, the English really don't want to admit that anything that the Americans do to the language is a good thing except under great duress.
Ditto for Americans- we don't want to admit that we should do what the English do (we kind of founded out country on that principle). And then there's Australia and New Zealand and Canada and Scotland and so on to consider, where the majority of the population speaks English as their first language.