Why do some consider Morrowind a better game than Oblivion?

[TheodoreLuke]

Okay, before I even say anything, I would like to make it very clear that I am not bashing Morrowind. I think it's a good game. (also I apologize if this thread has been done before and recently.)

Anyhow, I notice a lot of people talking about how Oblivion was crappy and that Morrowind was way better. I've played both pretty extensively, and I'm not sure I see what elements of Morrowind make people consider it better. It's an excellent RPG, for sure, but what does it have that Oblivion lacks? Please, Morrowind lovers, offer your opinions on the subject.

I play Morrowind when it first came out and the only problem is combat, everything else is perfect.

 

[Yokai]

I tried playing Morrowind at least 3 times but every time I do I'm driven away by the awful graphics and the shitty combat. If I could somehow upgrade the graphics to Oblivions level and change the combat I would TOTALLY dive right.

NOW that would be epic.. if they released a Morrowwind DLC that used the Oblivion graphics and combat.
That would pwn all the way to the bank.

They could just remake Morrowind and its expansions completely. I would buy that in a heartbeat.

I believe there are some mod projects that plan to do that, but like most overambitious mods, they will probably fall rather short of the goal.

Spoiler: Ahem...

Uh...yeah, that's a Thief conversion for Doom 3. An impressive mod, but it sure as hell isn't Morrowind in the Oblivion engine...
I was thinking something along the lines of this [http://morroblivion.com]. It looks impressive, I just don't see it making it to the level of the original Morrowind.

 

[Arbitrary Cidin]

Because Oblivion didn't have jump scrolls and slowfall potions.

No, because Oblivion didn't have any of the elements that made Morrowind a great RPG. Custom-made potions/spells were awesome, completely absent in Oblivion. That feeling of freedom...besides the guild quests, there were hardly any other side-quests in Oblivion. You were basically on a rail. The sheer complexity of Morrowind was astounding, so many different spells, abilities, class possibilities and potions that could be used in so many different ways. Oblivion essentially had one way to play the game no matter which class you chose. And of course, Morrowind actually FELT like an RPG in the way it was presented. The game was far more tactical than twitch-based. Oblivion felt more like an FPS, redesigned so that even the most idiotic of console kiddies could easily dominate.

No, I just liked the jump scrolls and slowfall potions.

 

[kardar233]

Also, my Oblivion has been crashing a lot lately, so it's frustrating to try and play it.

 

[shadowphade]

Okay, this thread made me reinstall Morrowind. Goodbye weekend.

 

[The_ModeRazor]

It has them pauldrons Oblivion seems to be missing.
And shurikens.

Although I tried to play it, and found it god-awful in comparison to it's successor.
But that is just opinion.

 

[Fappy]

One word: Immersion.

 

[Lineoutt]

It's deeper, the athmosphere is better, it doesn't have that too easy to use quicktravel system.

It's just the whole 'being in another world' aspect is much stronger in my opinion. I'm not sure if enemies level with you, but that really pissed me off in Oblivion.

Alright I know this thread it two years old but I can't take it any more! Where is your avatar from? I've seen it! I know I have! AAAHHH

...sorry

 

[ryanxm]

morrowind has werewolfs enough said

 

[Sven und EIN HUND]

Oblivion's combat and animation overall outdo Morrowind with ease, but the sheer amount of detail and content in Morrowind is astounding. One of my favourite games of all time, definitely.

 

[irequirefood]

All this talk of Morrwind is stirring up my nostalgia glands...

In all seriousness, both have good and bad points, and I don't really feel one was 'better' than the other. Morrowind was my very first large-scale sandbox game. But I have sunk more hours into Oblivion than any other game, besides Pokemon. So I'm not sure which I can say is better.

 

[Eponet]

I have to say, the combat seems laughably bad compared to Oblivion.

The combat isn't everything that a game should be judged on. Compared to Dark Messiah: Might and Magic, every game has laughably bad combat, but it definately doesn't make it the best game ever. Whoever wrote the story line and scripts for that game should be fired.

 

[Eponet]

Oblivion is too easy. It has a leveled monster system. Any level 5 character could beat the game. I preferred Morrowind because of the challenge of it (and because I preferred it to Oblivion's plot)

I still play both games but I've enjoyed Morrowind far more.

Actually, Morrowind's main plot was beatable by a level 1 character if you knew what to do.

 

[Vuljatar]

Morrowind has depth, flexibility, and immersion. It has atmosphere, man. When you get off the boat at Seyda Neen and set out to explore this beautiful, gigantic, living world, you are in awe. When you go into a sixth house base for the first time, you are afraid. When you confront Dagoth Ur, you are angry. The main story is both interesting and compelling (the fact that it's actually about you helps), as are all the myriad other stories woven into the faction quests and miscellaneous encounters. It draws you in because it is so deep and flexible. There are more than two ways to do anything--even the entirety of the main quest. The game is what you make of it.

Oblivion has retard-friendly interface and gameplay, shiny graphics, an utterly forgettable and uncompelling story, and 3 voice actors (one of which has maybe 7 lines in the entire game). It's got cop-out teleport-anywhere fast travel, which succeeds only in making the game world (which is actually about the same size as Morrowind's) feel tiny. Not to mention the fact that scaling enemies render leveling-up pointless (or worse than pointless, since most enemies get stronger faster than you do).

Morrowind is the plain-looking girl with glasses and acne, who grows up to be a very attractive millionaire doctor with an IQ of 180. Oblivion is the stunningly beautiful, vapid blonde ditz who gets her tits at age 14, spends half her adult life in rehab, and looks like your grandmother by the time she's 32.

Ultimately, what it comes down to is the player's character--not their in-game avatar, I mean their personal strength of character. What do you want, player? If you want a one-night stand, a cheap, easy fuck because you can't handle commitment, then go with Oblivion (or, lets get real, go with something like God of War because you aren't a RPG gamer at all). But if you want an experience, a game that you will come to love like no other, Morrowind is the game to play.

This is why Morrowind is a better game than Oblivion. That is my opinion, and it is a fact. My saying this may sound arrogant, but it's completely fucking true and every RPG gamer knows it.

 

[Private Custard]

I'll merely post exactly what I posted a couple of years back during a debate on the future of the Elder Scrolls. I think this should cover my feelings!

Actually, sod it, I'm wound up now so I have to expand!! I'll copy and paste from 2 posts I made on the official forums.

I want:

1) More items, especially candles and lamps to decorate my house.

2) Some way to place items where I want them without worrying that the Havok physics engine is going to fling them all over the place if I look at them funny.

3) Skills. Longblade, shortblade, axe, spear etc etc etc... I hate the dumbing down of Oblivion, it spread to every aspect of the game and should have been sub-titled 'My First RPG'

4) All houses should be available to live in, without worrying about re-spawning crates etc... It's one of the things that made Morrowind brilliant, the ability to choose your own house.

5) New artifacts and special weapons, not just rip-offs from Morrowind. Oblivion stole, amongst other things, Azuras Star, Necromancers Amulet, Umbra......and on and on and on...

6) More spells. Again Oblivion failed on a massive scale. We want the fun spells, Jump, slowfall, levitate, mark, recall etc etc

7) The ability to wear clothes under armour and robes over the top, or just mix and match. Another of Oblivions fail points.

8) More unique dungeons and caves. So many of Oblivions caves were copy and paste jobs, crates were always found on the raised bits in the corners surrounded by stalagtites and stalagmites.

9) No more scaled levelling. To make it so you can take over the world as a level 1 character renders the entire levelling system null and void, meaning the game isn't full RPG. Remember in Morrowind when you accidentally made it to red mountain as a level 5 character and suddenly got worried for your safety?!

10) More easter eggs, things like Indiana Jones's note, the mudcrab merchant, the message in a bottle.............fishy sticks!! Things that make you want to go out and explore. Oblivion never offered much in the way of special items, and when it awarded them to you, it quite often wanted you to give them away to complete quests (garridans tears, artifacts etc..)

11) Armour - By the time you reach level 20+ in Oblivion, pretty much every bandit is wearing full elven, glass, and laughably, Daedric armour. What makes certain armours special is their exclusivity, I don't want 50 sets of Daedric in my storage chests!!

12) Draw distance - Yes Oblivion had good draw distance, but it didn't half make the world look small. If you're going to give a good draw distance, at least make places look far away.

13) Voice acting - Four words "Thank you kind sir" !! The voice acting was an epic fail. Martin was about as exciting as a coma in a nunnery and the rest of the population comprised of probably less than 15 different voices. The one ray of light was Sheogorath...............although I'm pretty certain the Sheogorath that speaks to you on the shrine quest is not the fake Scottish accented Sheogorath in SI!

14) AI - Just one example of laziness is the infinite arrows trick. Stand out the back of the Chorrol fighters guild when the Orc is doing his archery practice. Just keep taking his arrows off the target.............he'll never ask for them back!

15) Oblivion - If you can be bothered, try doing all the Oblivion gates, you'll soon realise that there are probably less than 10 individual 'Oblivions'. They repeated so often that I could guide a friend around them over voice chat!! This complaint could probably be lumped in with the repeating caves complaint I have.

16) Too much forest - the landscape had no variety, it was either mountains (with snow sometimes) or forests. Morrowind had Azuras Coast, The Ashlands, Mournhold, Solstheim (North and south), The Bitter Coast etc etc....

 

[Necrofudge]

Oblivion is too easy. It has a leveled monster system. Any level 5 character could beat the game. I preferred Morrowind because of the challenge of it (and because I preferred it to Oblivion's plot)

I still play both games but I've enjoyed Morrowind far more.

Actually, Morrowind's main plot was beatable by a level 1 character if you knew what to do.

Yes, you could put it that way. In fact, you could pretty much beat any game where the main boss fight involves a puzzle or target if "you know what to do".

Still I doubt Morrowind is beatable that way if played by an average person, considering the fact that at level one, a character would barely be able to outrun a rat, let alone the monsters that guard the miscellaneous trinkets needed to win.

The average player wouldn't be able to do that, but they could easy beat oblivion since it gives them such a fancy gold decorated crutch.

 

[Snor]

for all of the many reasons morrowind is beter stated (surely) before my post i would like to add that its from 2002. only that simple fact that a game from 2002 is still one of the greatest rpg's of all time (if not games of all time) means that despite technological strains the underlying mechanic is very strong.

what i felt with morrowind (in addition to anger because of missing with my blade while I clearly hit that stupid rat) was an immersion because the world felt real. the cities all had their own stories and you could feel the political intrigue between the houses, hatred for outlanders etc.

add to that the immense amount of side quests and diversity in classes (because in Oblivion it all comes down to point and kill, with little strategic differences) and you have something that is still relevant this day.

the only problem is that the game is to hard for a beginner. a tutorial + a working journal like oblivions would be very nice (how many times have i not forgotten what to do with that quests that I picked up half a year ago)

 

[JustShyofGenius]

Morrowind' main plot was awesome and well told. Oblivion was pretty standard Fantasy fare. Even beyond the main story, Morrowind's internal lore was much deeper and more fun to explore. However, all of this pales in comparison to the real reason I loved Morrowind:

Exploration. In Oblivion, exploration just kinda fills out your map and helps you grind out your abilities. Everywhere you go, you find leveled, random loot and leveled enemies. Every dungeon looks the same. There's just no sense of accomplishment from searching every nook and cranny of a dungeon. It doesn't really matter where you go to kill stuff, because you find the same loot everywhere and the monsters are all relatively the same difficulty, so why explore? They did get this right in a few spots, like the Ayelid (sp?) quest and the Daedra quests.

Morrowind, though. Man. You walk into the wrong area and you are toast if you aren't well on your way to becoming a god. You can't just go anywhere you please. And when you are finally bad ass enough to go there, you might be rewarded with some seriously sweet loot. Or you might have to levitate up to some random perch that you don't even see from the ground to find a one of a kind item. It's worth your while to go to the very corner of the map because you might actually find something new that you can't find anywhere else.

Also, in Morrowind, the sense of immersion was awesome. It felt like the world existed outside of you. The dude you run into has his stats because those are his stats. That item you found in the chest has been there forever. In Oblivion, that dude you just ran into has stats based on yours and that chest you opened didn't even have loot in it until you opened it.

Sure, Oblivion was bigger, but it didn't seem to be crafted with the same love and attention to detail that Morrowind was. It was bigger for the sake of being bigger, and they sacrificed a lot to accomplish this. Too me, it feels like lazy design. They made things random and scripted because after putting the map together; it was just too daunting for them to handcraft everything.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Actually, sod it, I'm wound up now so I have to expand!! I'll copy and paste from 2 posts I made on the official forums.

I want:

1) More items, especially candles and lamps to decorate my house.

You know, I suppose there are obviously people who desperately want houses and bases in these games. Hell, one of the coolest mods for Fallout 3 was simply a really, really awesome home for my character. But, to be honest, I don't find myself fussing over them much. In the previously mentioned mod, sure I put my weapons and ammunition in the armory as it auto sorted them and placed them on display shelves and whatnot, but in Oblivion I just dumped all my potions in one chest, my unused armor in another, and my weapons in a third. I so rarely went back to these to get a particular item that I eventually stopped worrying altogether. In morrowind, I just dumped everything in a big pile and hoped for the best.

2) Some way to place items where I want them without worrying that the Havok physics engine is going to fling them all over the place if I look at them funny.

I will say that one of the more annoying and persistent bugs in these games is the propensity of items to fall through a table after I so much as look at them. More than once some terribly important mcguffin was lost forever because it fell in such a way that I couldn't pick it up.

3) Skills. Longblade, shortblade, axe, spear etc etc etc... I hate the dumbing down of Oblivion, it spread to every aspect of the game and should have been sub-titled 'My First RPG'

I don't know if this is entirely fair. Without spending a terrific amount of time, a player is only going to be really good with one kind of weapon. And, aside from some variation in damage done when sneaking and fatigue drain with each attack, most melee weapons act more or less the same as the others. Sure, I liked using a Spear in Morrowind. It was my chosen weapon. But it was functionally identical to a sword in the long run. I suppose I'd like to have had the choice to use a spear but I don't think that not having such a choice dumbed the game down even slightly as the combat inherent in their usage was identical. I didn't get a range advantage for using a spear for example, so why would I use it when some two handed sword did twice the damage?

4) All houses should be available to live in, without worrying about re-spawning crates etc... It's one of the things that made Morrowind brilliant, the ability to choose your own house.

Morrowind had the same problem with re spawning containers if memory serves. If the container was empty, it was generally safe to put stuff in. If you found stuff in there it was not safe to put stuff in.

5) New artifacts and special weapons, not just rip-offs from Morrowind. Oblivion stole, amongst other things, Azuras Star, Necromancers Amulet, Umbra......and on and on and on...

Given that so little in the game changed mechanically, any change in these items would be entirely cosmetic. Perhaps the better complaint is that so much was identical and you simply resent the things that called attention to that fact. A fireball is a fireball. A glass dagger is a glass dagger.

6) More spells. Again Oblivion failed on a massive scale. We want the fun spells, Jump, slowfall, levitate, mark, recall etc etc

Levitate was not included precisely because it would have broken many parts of the game (specifically any part that took place in oblivion). The AI also doesn't really react well when you levitate. Mark and recall had little purpose when fast travel exists (a point you will later decry oddly enough when these spells represent the same exact thing). Slowfall was likely cut for the same reason as levitate.

Really, aside from those, you really aren't missing any spells that I can recall. And while an argument could be made that they could have redesigned segments to get around the various problems, Oblivion already had plenty of problems when it came to people encountering stuff before they are supposed to without them. Including these features would almost certainly cause more problems for an already troubled game.

7) The ability to wear clothes under armour and robes over the top, or just mix and match. Another of Oblivions fail points.

Except, the fact that you could enchant clothing as well simply meant a player could become even more unstoppably powerful. I distinctly remember the mystical set of fancy clothing that I wore under my enchanted ebony armor in Morrowind. I also recall being an unstoppable killing machine by level 10 as a result of exploiting this and other loopholes.

Sure there were other solutions to the problem, which I suspect is your real gripe much of the time. That Bethesda solved problems in ways you do not agree with, or rather solved problems that you enjoyed exploiting.

8) More unique dungeons and caves. So many of Oblivions caves were copy and paste jobs, crates were always found on the raised bits in the corners surrounded by stalagtites and stalagmites.

Really? Because I recall LOTS of copy pasted interiors in Morrowind. Lots and lots of them. In fact, I seem to recall that the game had perhaps four kinds of things. You had the caves, you had the dwarven ruins, you had those other ruins, and then you had the local buildings. Sure there were lots of really cool set pieces you ran into along the way but morrowind was just as full of stupid copy paste dungeons as Oblivion.

9) No more scaled levelling. To make it so you can take over the world as a level 1 character renders the entire levelling system null and void, meaning the game isn't full RPG. Remember in Morrowind when you accidentally made it to red mountain as a level 5 character and suddenly got worried for your safety?!

I can agree with this. I mean, the game was easier to beat at level 1 than level 25. And there were points where the sudden spike in difficulty was absurd. Those god damn mountain lions at level 10 for example. You couldn't outrun them, they easily attacked through your block and you couldn't do much more than scratch the things. Without a good supply of health and stamina potions, you were pretty much screwed if you ran into one on foot at level 10.

10) More easter eggs, things like Indiana Jones's note, the mudcrab merchant, the message in a bottle.............fishy sticks!! Things that make you want to go out and explore. Oblivion never offered much in the way of special items, and when it awarded them to you, it quite often wanted you to give them away to complete quests (garridans tears, artifacts etc..)

I can agree with this. When I found some of those easter eggs in Morrowind, it actually seemed like I might have been the first person to do so. It seemed like my own private joke that the developer decided to tell me.

11) Armour - By the time you reach level 20+ in Oblivion, pretty much every bandit is wearing full elven, glass, and laughably, Daedric armour. What makes certain armours special is their exclusivity, I don't want 50 sets of Daedric in my storage chests!!

This was true in Morrowind as well. But, your point stands regardless. Honestly, when I decided I wanted to build a set of Ebony armor in Oblivion because it looked far better than that terrible Daedric garbage, I had to go through hell and back because anyone wearing heavy armor was probably wearing Daedric thanks to the leveled list.

12) Draw distance - Yes Oblivion had good draw distance, but it didn't half make the world look small. If you're going to give a good draw distance, at least make places look far away.

That's hard to do when the world is only a few miles on a side.

13) Voice acting - Four words "Thank you kind sir" !! The voice acting was an epic fail. Martin was about as exciting as a coma in a nunnery and the rest of the population comprised of probably less than 15 different voices. The one ray of light was Sheogorath...............although I'm pretty certain the Sheogorath that speaks to you on the shrine quest is not the fake Scottish accented Sheogorath in SI!

I can agree with this as well. If you're going to have voice acting at least try to ensure it adds something that the text boxes didn't.

14) AI - Just one example of laziness is the infinite arrows trick. Stand out the back of the Chorrol fighters guild when the Orc is doing his archery practice. Just keep taking his arrows off the target.............he'll never ask for them back!

The AI was just as stupid in Morrowind. And, to be fair, AI is also one of the most difficult kinds of algorithm to write. It also tends to be very computationally expensive and people are more impressed by shiny baubles than smart enemies. So people are content to marvel at careful scripting and whatnot that helps hide blisteringly stupid AI if it means they can get closer to photo realism. And, to be honest, for all the technical marvel inherent in the AI in oblivion, it was what lead directly to some of the biggest technical problems in the game!

15) Oblivion - If you can be bothered, try doing all the Oblivion gates, you'll soon realise that there are probably less than 10 individual 'Oblivions'. They repeated so often that I could guide a friend around them over voice chat!! This complaint could probably be lumped in with the repeating caves complaint I have.

This is entirely true but then you do realize that it takes a team of artists some amount of time to produce a minor variation in the world correct? That time is a limited resource and thus spending it in environments would detract from it's being used resolving some of your other complaints (Like the fact that entire categories of weapons were missing for example).

16) Too much forest - the landscape had no variety, it was either mountains (with snow sometimes) or forests. Morrowind had Azuras Coast, The Ashlands, Mournhold, Solstheim (North and south), The Bitter Coast etc etc....

I can generally agree with this.

 

[De-Moti]

Because they can.