Why does every RPG receive so much hate?

]DustArma[

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lithium.jelly said:
I think it's because RPGs are slowly turning into action games. Those of us who don't have ADD, and like to be pushed to think during our games are getting annoyed that there are fewer and fewer games for us each year, replaced by games for the boobies/explosions/"duuude!" crowd.
I registered because of this post, and I'll probably get a probation/suspension/ban for it, but, whatever.

That post has to be one of the most ignorant, most self-entitled, full of ridiculous elitism I've seen, and I frequent the BSN forums.

What's wrong with action games? Do you have to have the ability to pause a game otherwise you can't make a decision? Do you lack the ability to change your strategy on-the-fly because something didn't go as you planned? Can't you THINK WHILE YOU PLAY instead of having an artificial game mechanic holding your hand so you can take a breath?

I don't even want to know how you'd fare on a RTS game, or a heavy team based FPS game, oh but wait, you must also have a complete hatred for anything multiplayer too.

I really don't know what's fucking wrong with the RPG crowd, I tend to find the most elitist of the elitist douchebags there, and you only help to feed that notion.

Oh, I know, it's YOU and PEOPLE LIKE YOU who are what's wrong with the RPG communities.

Good day, sir.
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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Ice Car said:
Of course, you know about the Fallout Franchise. THIS GAME SUCKS BECAUSE IT HAS GLITCHES AND BUGS FIX PLEASE OR IMMA REFUND MAH GAME LMAO.

It's all stupid, just ignore it.
I don't know what bizarro world you came here from, but here in the real world, we like our games to work properly right when we buy them. We shouldn't have to suffer through countless game breaking bugs and glitches at launch or wait a few months until some of the most severe bugs are patched, making the game at least playable, but still riddled with lots of little bugs that are likely never going to be fixed. For $60 a pop, a game should be working at launch, not in a state of "sorry it isn't finished yet, stay tuned for the patches!".

The only thing that's stupid and should be ignored here is your assertion that people shouldn't be upset about game breaking bugs and glitches in their brand new games they just paid $60 for. A game you buy at launch should be finished and polished, not a fucking beta test.
 

Zaik

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Bags159 said:
Does oblivion fall under hated RPGs? I love Oblivion. I must have like 30 characters. It has a lot of flaws surely (stiff animations, weird NPC reactions, amazingly observant guards, etc) but it does a lot right IMO.

Although, it's the only single player RPG I've played, so I don't have much comparison.

Yes, Oblivion counts. There's a loud group of Morrowind fanboys that hate it for lots of really odd reasons. This picture says it a bit better than I can without writing an article on it.

 

Bags159

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Zaik said:
Bags159 said:
Does oblivion fall under hated RPGs? I love Oblivion. I must have like 30 characters. It has a lot of flaws surely (stiff animations, weird NPC reactions, amazingly observant guards, etc) but it does a lot right IMO.

Although, it's the only single player RPG I've played, so I don't have much comparison.

Yes, Oblivion counts. There's a loud group of Morrowind fanboys that hate it for lots of really odd reasons. This picture says it a bit better than I can without writing an article on it.

That's what it's missing! Realistic travel times! Hah, funny comic. I wouldn't touch the game if there was no fast travel.
 

Judgement101

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....what RPGs received hate? DA2? DA:O recieved hate also, seriously, all it really is is just people who don't want to deal with leveling and just want the action.
 

Bags159

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I like Oblivion because you get leveling by experiencing the action. I don't like that you get weaker compared to the world as you level, however.
 

infohippie

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DustArma[]
lithium.jelly said:
I think it's because RPGs are slowly turning into action games. Those of us who don't have ADD, and like to be pushed to think during our games are getting annoyed that there are fewer and fewer games for us each year, replaced by games for the boobies/explosions/"duuude!" crowd.
I registered because of this post, and I'll probably get a probation/suspension/ban for it, but, whatever.

That post has to be one of the most ignorant, most self-entitled, full of ridiculous elitism I've seen, and I frequent the BSN forums.

What's wrong with action games? Do you have to have the ability to pause a game otherwise you can't make a decision? Do you lack the ability to change your strategy on-the-fly because something didn't go as you planned? Can't you THINK WHILE YOU PLAY instead of having an artificial game mechanic holding your hand so you can take a breath?

I don't even want to know how you'd fare on a RTS game, or a heavy team based FPS game, oh but wait, you must also have a complete hatred for anything multiplayer too.

I really don't know what's fucking wrong with the RPG crowd, I tend to find the most elitist of the elitist douchebags there, and you only help to feed that notion.

Oh, I know, it's YOU and PEOPLE LIKE YOU who are what's wrong with the RPG communities.

Good day, sir.
LOL. Strategy on the fly? Thinking while I play? I'm complaining because there is no need to think, just mash buttons. I'm not talking about pausing while I think, I'm talking about the need to think in the first place. And what strategy? There is minimal strategy required. It's all pretty effects and no brain needed.
Oh, and RTS? I do fairly well, thank you. Team-based FPS? Yawn, what a snoozefest. Just more button-mashing and a tiny bit of tactical thinking.
Old-school RPG fans wouldn't be complaining so much if we had regular game releases that catered to our tastes, instead we get companies who tell us about their awesome new RPG but when we buy it we find it's just another fragfest. Very light on the RPG and heavy on the blowing-stuff-up, beacause they think that if the player has to engage their brain nobody will want to play it. It's like sitting down to play some Go and finding someone's swapped it out for a copy of Bulletstorm.
 

NeoSpriggan

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3 or 4 sounds about right. Im honestly gob-smacked at the landslide of hate reviews for Dragon Age 2, many occuring on the 8th or 9th, which is hardly long enough to form a proper opinion on the game.

So many talked about how the game has been altered, wishing for that old way of doing things DA:O brought back for a time. I could possibly forgive them if they had somehow avoided all videos and interviews on the game, but these would be internet savy people. There has been ample information for weeks on the thing, which makes it even sadder.

Oh, and lets not forget the landslide of "evil" dlc, the majority of which is FREE. Only two actually cost anything, and those come with the signature edition, which again, is a FREE upgrade for those who reserved it early.

Its just plain pathetic.
 

dWintermut3

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I don't have a problem with modern RPGs, nor do I over-idealize old games, they had their problems too.

Let me start off saying I started my RPG odyssey playing Wizardry: Bane of the Cosmic Forge on an x8088. I played a lot of the best of the old games.

I can sum up the problem with them, and what a lot of hardcore fans miss in one sentence: Mandatory 50-page manuals.

We miss the complexity, spell lists, full-custom skill point distribution, dialogue options that required some degree of attention span, memory and attention on your part.

A great example of the dumbing-down of RPGs is the modern "big two" styles dialogue system. with blue tinting and positioning to tell you when an option is "good" (as opposed to, say, Planescape: Torment, where you had to guess what effect killing someone would have on your alignment as opposed to being told explicitly in a way that breaks immersion) and parenthetical asides just so that you're absolutely sure that you know what you're doing even if you skipped all the dialogue previously and have the IQ of a not-altogether-clever door handle.

Do I really need [lie] in front of "I won't betray you" when I plan to later? shouldn't I be given the choice not locked in by the dialogue? do I really need to be told [lie] in front of "I didn't shoot your brother" when I full well know I just plugged him in the face? give me some credit here game!

That's my issue with modern games, and why I keep going back to Black Isle games like Planescape and Fallout 2 over and over again. Yes the modern systems are more streamlined, you can't make a gimped build that has no chance of success because you put all your points into advanced underwater basket weaving and all your attribute points into charisma (why is the dump stat always charisma?). But on the other hand you can't PLAY A ROLE. You can't get into cahracter and say "this is the personality I want Ned the Nameless One to have and I'll play that personality, because the game is constantly flashing things at you and breaking immersion.



as an aside whomever decided that fallout: new vegas needed "challenge" progress popups like Borderlands deserves an AER-7 laser rifle up the backside.
 

Avatar Roku

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DustyDrB said:
Probably because it's one of the most if not the most ill-defined genre there is.
That is a very good point. Everyone seems to have a different idea of what constitutes an RPG, let a long a good one. Hell, I have a friend who is convinced that the first Assassin's Creed is an RPG, for christ's sake.
DustArma[]
lithium.jelly said:
I think it's because RPGs are slowly turning into action games. Those of us who don't have ADD, and like to be pushed to think during our games are getting annoyed that there are fewer and fewer games for us each year, replaced by games for the boobies/explosions/"duuude!" crowd.
I registered because of this post, and I'll probably get a probation/suspension/ban for it, but, whatever.

That post has to be one of the most ignorant, most self-entitled, full of ridiculous elitism I've seen, and I frequent the BSN forums.

What's wrong with action games? Do you have to have the ability to pause a game otherwise you can't make a decision? Do you lack the ability to change your strategy on-the-fly because something didn't go as you planned? Can't you THINK WHILE YOU PLAY instead of having an artificial game mechanic holding your hand so you can take a breath?

I don't even want to know how you'd fare on a RTS game, or a heavy team based FPS game, oh but wait, you must also have a complete hatred for anything multiplayer too.

I really don't know what's fucking wrong with the RPG crowd, I tend to find the most elitist of the elitist douchebags there, and you only help to feed that notion.

Oh, I know, it's YOU and PEOPLE LIKE YOU who are what's wrong with the RPG communities.

Good day, sir.
Two things. 1: Tone down the confrontational tone. 2: Excellent points, I agree completely :)

Oh, and I do not recommend responding to him from now on. You're such a promising new member, be a shame to lose you to a flamewar.
 
Jul 11, 2008
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I really don't see where this thread came from. Every game receives SOME scrutiny. But overall, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Dragon Age... I've heard nothing but good things about them, and most of them have been among my favorites this generation, if not ANY generation.

Sure, Dragon Age 2 is receiving some heat, but honestly, apart from that, I don't think I remember any of the other ones getting badly criticized at all, apart from the odd person here and there.
 

IBlackKiteI

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Are you serious?

RPG's are the most loved genre of all time

Or do you not notice the Bioware fanboys?
 

Nimzar

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IBlackKiteI said:
Or do you not notice the Bioware fanboys?
Did someone call?

I try not to be too fanboy-ish toward Bioware... but I've never been really let down by any of their games that I've played (note: I haven't played ME2 or DA2 yet).

So far they haven't surpassed Baldur's Gate 2. And as refreshing as DA:O was I did have some severe problems with it that have kept me from playing through it again.

As for the the original topic there isn't one easy answer... but I can say that the RPG genre is pretty broad.
 

Novijen

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It's not that we're all elitist haters, but that we are THE most vocal gaming group, positive and negative.
 

psicat

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DrWilhelm said:
It seems that a lot of RPG fans have rather solid, unwavering and uncompromising opinions on what a good RPG is, and those opinions often vary massively from person to person. Some people yearn for the old isometric/turn-based/pause-and-play games of yesteryear like the Baldurs Gate series and Fallout 1 and 2, while some people enjoy action heavy hack'n'slash games more along the lines of Diablo and Jade Empire. Some people love the do whatever the heck you want, free roamers offered by Bethesda while other people prefer a more directed, plot heavy, linear experience (anyone else feel it's weird how 'linear' has started to feel like a dirty word?).

Combine this with the lack of a clear cut definition for what an RPG actually is, and the extreme tribalism exhitbited by many gamers and internet-goers, plus sprinkle on a (un)healthy portion of the Greater Internet F*ckwad theory, and you wind up with the extreme examples of people pouring hatred onto any game that they percieve deviates (even slghtly) away from their own personal RPG definition.

Really the RPG genre is highly mutable, and is very easy to successfully breed with any number of other genre. This is why so many games that call themselves RPGs often include elements of shooters, puzzlers and whatever, and why many non-rpgs include RPG elements.

To focus on the current Dragon Age 2 madness, the new game has changed some of the things from the original. The art direction and animation has shifted significantly, there is less customisability, aparently the PC version has been dumbed down for the 'console tards'. As I've already aluded to, many people don't like changes, but quite frankly change is always welcome in my book. If I wanted to play a game that played exactly like Dragon Age: Origins, I would just play Dragon Age: Origins. I'm glad that the story has taken a different direction, because as far as I could say, the story from DA1 was pretty satifactorily concluded. As far the console tard comments, the same nonsense was levelled at Origins and it was just as much bullshit then as it likely is now (I haven't played the game yet aside from the demo but I can make educated guesses from previous experience of similar accusations).
Wonderful summary of the situation.
 

Guitarmasterx7

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Mar 16, 2009
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I'm guessing either
A: it's because they have to have a huge amount of content and a ton of different game play assets due to the fact that the character's stats change, so more stuff=more stuff that people can potentially dislike.
or
B: The internet wasn't this big back in the day so people's public forum for bitching wasn't as large. Plus the people that are bitching now were much younger then and when you're a kid you like everything more.
 

CitySquirrel

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A few people will bash any given game, but I think RPGs are not really bashed anymore than any other game. Except that obsidian makes RPGs and so it might seem like the obsidian bashing is RPG bashing.
 

Veldaroth

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Hey, I'm just happy when a true RPG gets released! They last me about a week and once they are done there aren't many other games I'm interested in. Bioware and Bethesda are pretty much the only companies that make descent ones so yeah, I'm not really gonna complain much.
 

Eldarion

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I complain about mass effect and dragon age a lot. Even though I loved mass effect 1 and 2 and dragon ago origins, when I'm on the forums I only want to talk about the bits that bugged me. Don't know why.
 

Drummie666

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Well, the only recent AAA RPG that I've played is Fallout 3. It was the first I had ever heard of the fallout franchise, so I have no cares about any changes to the formula.

I still hated it however.

I went in expecting to be able to do tasks is any way I wanted to. Instead, the only solution to most problems was with a gun. And given that there is so much combat in the game, It's pointless to put points into anything else. So, it quickly changed from an RPG into an FPS. A pretty boring one at that as the combat itself is very slow paced.

I went in expecting immersion, as the ppl on teh interwebs praise the immersion. And I got exactly that! ...For about the first 2 hours. Then it feels like you're just pacing around in a solitary confinement cell as there is no noise in the world except your own foot steps... And the occasional gunshot.

The only real saving grace about it is Moira Brown. She kept my attention and made me interested to find out more about her.