Why does everybody hate Superman?

[Thespian]

I think Supes is pretty cool. I don't generally follow Superman stuff, but I am glad he's around. He's very important as a symbol, and in the DC Universe he is an almost omnipresent symbol. He embodies all that a Superhero should be. He is compassionate and moralistic, but willing to do whatever it takes.
And I love the idea of a guy who asks "What's so funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way?"
I mean, there's so much bullshit "humans are scum" dark grittiness around that I like a character who is unabashedly and unashamedly good, who believes that humans are, though flawed, ultimately good and worthy saving.

 

[theguru]

Superman is boring for the same reason playing with all the cheat codes on is unfulfilling. How can there be any sense of danger if the character is for all intents and purposes invincible? Superman has one, arguably two, stupidly implausible and esoteric weaknesses so the story has to bend over backward to actually present Superman even a token challenge

Then of course he seems to acquire powers out of thin air. You know, just in case the story was ever about to gain any dramatic tension. One particular instance had him gaining "super weaving" that allowed him to make a dress really fast. See for yourself
http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=4

Frankly, an all powerful self righteous ponce who can only be defeated by a single impossible to find MacGuffin smacks more of a villain than anything else.

If your really basing your opinion on the character based of off the Silver-Age, I don't really need to respond.

-snip-

You can count me as one of the people that just isn't into Superman.

One glaring problem with his character is that I can't see any true motivation or logical backstory for his persona. Sure, he was brought up with strict values by his good old, hardworking, american parents. In all honesty, I find that explanation kind of offensive. I think we can all agree that Superman is supposed to be the nicest man ever. He's supposed to be this messianic figure of hope and benevolence. One would assume that to get to that point, one has to go through a lot of suffering throughout their life. Superman didn't. Maybe he saw the odd person die in some of his better stories, but I don't believe I've ever seen him go through some journey or epiphany that made him devote his entire being towards helping others. It was just how he was brought up which is BS because I'm sure Jonathan and Martha Kent can't be happy in the knowledge that their son is trapped in the eternal war of good and evil and that at any time he could easily die.

I've compared him to other similar characters. The closest example is Vash the Stampede from the anime/manga Trigun. You should totally read it. Vash is a lonesome gunslinger who travels through a steampunk desert world in search of his evil twin brother. He is ridiculously kind and has to save everybody he meets, no matter the risks or the price he has to pay. He is also an all powerful demi-god. Why do I think he works better as a character?

1. His backstory is much better. I can't spoil it, but I can promise his backstory explains why he has decided to live the life he lives which is a pretty important thing to know if you want to relate to a character.

2. He can't save everybody without paying a very high price. Not only horrific injuries, but it is his meddlesome nature that makes him truly suffer. The only reason his life is so tragic is because he cares too much about everybody. Superman's life is kind of cool most of the time.

3. His true fight is in the heart. I think this is the real difference. Vash wins by making people good. By taking lost lambs on the right path. He doesn't always achieve this, but when he does, when he makes people realize that a world of love and peace isn't just a childish idealist fantasy but something worth living and dying for, it's truly heartbreaking. Superman can never be like that. He can't because he never fucking wins. His nemesis is either Lex Luthor, Zodd or whoever but the point is they are completely batshit insane and are never going to become good. Making them good would end the Superman story and that is never going to happen. Superman can never have that kind of happy ending and that just makes him kind of pointless and depressing to read. How can the hero of hope fight a hopeless battle?

I think the idea that someone needs to endure trauma to be a good, well-rounded person that wants to do good things, or that doing good things automatically involves suffering doesnt say a lot about Superman if you catch my drift.


And the whole "battle of the heart" things is a huge part of Superman as well. The character isn't just a metaphor for hope, but a actual crusader for it. When written right, his stories aren't about his powers, but about what he does with them. Birthright is the best example of this. He creates the entire Superman persona to be as open, colorful, thoughtful, warm and kind as he can make it because he's seen how dark and rotten the world has become and wants to combat it on the home-front. The idea that Lex will never turn good just highlights that. You say its a hopeless battle, but that just completely misses the point of the character. Thats why its called "The Never-ending Battle." It's just not that binary. Evil will never truly be gone, but that's not an excuse to say its hopeless or to give up, and thats what Superman is about. In essence, he's a well-rounded, kind person fighting to bring hope to a cynical world that thinks its easier to say its hopeless than to keep trying. Whether or not it will ever be over is not relevant, there's still good in the world, and its worth spreading and protecting. Thats why Lex is the perfect villain for him. He's he prefect anti-thesis, the representation of the very human evils of envy, greed and ego that will never truly be destroyed, but can always be combated.

I think that's the biggest problem here. People are looking at this in very binary terms of "Powers and villains." Its something a lot more meaningful that makes the character so inspirational and fleshed out.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

I?m going to echo some of the statements already made?

His character flaws never seem to matter. One large example is his origin. He?s an alien from a distant world that has been destroyed. His entire race (99% of it anyway) is extinct and fragments of his home world literally cause him physical harm (strangely only when combined with a yellow son). This in of itself should cause ridiculous amounts of trauma and emotional problems. How do the writers deal with this? They don?t. He was raised by wonderful parents and had a great life where he was taught American virtues of hard work and always doing the right thing. (Outside the well mannered farm life, his origin seems more appropriate to a villain)

Even what could be considered his darkest moment, the quintessential lesson he was suppose to learn at the hands of his adopted father?s death (that no matter how powerful you may seem, there will always come a time you are entirely helpless; and that is why you must help everyone you can), he never once again experiences that moment of utter hopelessness or loss or self loathing at his own shortcomings. This of course is a deeper issue in regard to comics in general, but characters only seem to remain dead in back stories (and even then not all the time).

His *interesting* character archetypes were fully explored in other characters. Spiderman fully explored the concept of ?with great power comes great responsibility?; which Superman is rarely subject to. The Hulk fully explores the ideas behind controlling near unlimited destructive power; where Superman always seems to hit someone just hard enough to put them down but never tear their head off. Handcock fully explores the idea of behind being utterly alone and the subject to public opinion (good and/or bad) and a personal mission to find ones place in a world utterly beneath you. What has Superman really explored? What ridiculous additional power or limitation to his existing powers can play out in his next grand save the day Tuesday?

When he fails, it?s always convenient to another characters personal growth and then only temporary. His weakness are Deus Ex?s, too often abused by the sudden appearance of a variety of villains that seem to wield them, yet somehow still manage to find their defeat at his hands. How many times has Superman been subject to the effects of Kryptonite and yet still walk away with no permanent damage (either physically or psychologically? These are people trying to kill you with your own homeworld!)?

Where is the character development here? Where is the personal struggle with his very existence and purpose? Where is the sense of real conflict beyond ?just hit it harder?? Even his most interesting villain; a mortal man, doesn?t fully explore the motives behind Supermans continued unwillingness to end the charade time and time again and how given our current political climate, Lex doesn?t have further support to question Superman?s legitimacy of forcing his morality onto a world that never asked for it.

But instead of writing about the various interesting aspects of a character like Superman?s impact on the world around him, they stick to the same trite over and over again, perpetuating a terrible list of stereotypes associated with the character. You can be ridiculously powerful and remain interesting; many characters have done it. Superman appears to fear this exploration in favor of maintaining the status quo as a symbol of hope with little meaning given the lack of real conflict for context.

 

[Joseph Alexander]

I?m going to echo some of the statements already made?

His character flaws never seem to matter. One large example is his origin. He?s an alien from a distant world that has been destroyed. His entire race (99% of it anyway) is extinct and fragments of his home world literally cause him physical harm (strangely only when combined with a yellow son). This in of itself should cause ridiculous amounts of trauma and emotional problems. How do the writers deal with this? They don?t. He was raised by wonderful parents and had a great life where he was taught American virtues of hard work and always doing the right thing. (Outside the well mannered farm life, his origin seems more appropriate to a villain)

Even what could be considered his darkest moment, the quintessential lesson he was suppose to learn at the hands of his adopted father?s death (that no matter how powerful you may seem, there will always come a time you are entirely helpless; and that is why you must help everyone you can), he never once again experiences that moment of utter hopelessness or loss or self loathing at his own shortcomings. This of course is a deeper issue in regard to comics in general, but characters only seem to remain dead in back stories (and even then not all the time).

His *interesting* character archetypes were fully explored in other characters. Spiderman fully explored the concept of ?with great power comes great responsibility?; which Superman is rarely subject to. The Hulk fully explores the ideas behind controlling near unlimited destructive power; where Superman always seems to hit someone just hard enough to put them down but never tear their head off. Handcock fully explores the idea of behind being utterly alone and the subject to public opinion (good and/or bad) and a personal mission to find ones place in a world utterly beneath you. What has Superman really explored? What ridiculous additional power or limitation to his existing powers can play out in his next grand save the day Tuesday?

When he fails, it?s always convenient to another characters personal growth and then only temporary. His weakness are Deus Ex?s, too often abused by the sudden appearance of a variety of villains that seem to wield them, yet somehow still manage to find their defeat at his hands. How many times has Superman been subject to the effects of Kryptonite and yet still walk away with no permanent damage (either physically or psychologically? These are people trying to kill you with your own homeworld!)?

Where is the character development here? Where is the personal struggle with his very existence and purpose? Where is the sense of real conflict beyond ?just hit it harder?? Even his most interesting villain; a mortal man, doesn?t fully explore the motives behind Supermans continued unwillingness to end the charade time and time again and how given our current political climate, Lex doesn?t have further support to question Superman?s legitimacy of forcing his morality onto a world that never asked for it.

But instead of writing about the various interesting aspects of a character like Superman?s impact on the world around him, they stick to the same trite over and over again, perpetuating a terrible list of stereotypes associated with the character. You can be ridiculously powerful and remain interesting; many characters have done it. Superman appears to fear this exploration in favor of maintaining the status quo as a symbol of hope with little meaning given the lack of real conflict for context.

all that character development and personal struggle exists. you just haven't read it.
look up: red son(a shattered mirror version of superman), "whats so funny about truth, justice, and the American way?", what ever happened to the man of tomorrow?, and all-star superman(i wasn't a fan of him until i saw this goodbye story to the silver age superman).


ok, on the topic of all the people saying "hes too powerful, hes a boring character" you are all morons.
all you are doing is assuming something you have NO GODDAMNED CLUE about.

have you ever read a story about him? NO.
have you ever watched one of the animated shows? NO.

 

[TheNaut131]

Bullets bounce off of his eyes. Even when people use kryptonite against him, its hard to believe that he's in any real danger of death.

Although to be honest, the Flash irritates me more. The things that qualify under "super speed" are absolute bull.

About the Flash, you see his speed doesn't come from his muscles. He isn't just "some guy who runs fast." The Flash, and other speedsters, draw from a energy simply known as the Speed Force. Through this, the Flash can accelerate or decelerate the kinetic energy, momentum, etc found in objects, the most obvious one being himself. Accessing the Speed Force has lead number of other abilities, some which seem to be more than just super speed, which has lead many characters in the comics and The Flash himself to question what the Speed Force actually is. Though I feel I should mention that there's been a retcon, so some of the rules have been changed and all that nonsense.

I could go into greater detail, but I'm a lazy fucker. If you want to know more, Google it or something.

As for Superman...eh, I've always had mixed feeling for him. Superman is perfect, as we all know. With great writers, he can be a great human character, someone we can relate to and at times not relate to for understandable reason, the same way we react to actual people. But even then Superman is still "super." That's the main reason a lot of people don't like him.

The only real thing I could see people relating to with Superman is restraint. You see, Superman is strong. Really strong. We all know this and that's the reason why a lot of people don't like him. However, one wrong move and it's game over for everyone. Superman has to keep himself in constant control, part of the reason why he tend to have different scales of difficulty doing things (that and lazy writing...) He needs to find a Goldilocks zone whenever he uses his powers.

However there's the fact that Superman is supposed to represent:

THE AMERICAN WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

And all that garbage, slightly turning certain people away.

 

[nothingspringstomind]

-snip snip snippety snip snip-

Flash's powers inherently make him OP though. Just by their very nature. That post didn't even mentioned some of the shit flash is potentially capable of. The dude is potentially omnichronological and multidimension. I mean, he's no pre-retcon Beyonder or Living Tribunal, but the dude is fuckin' nuts. The issue is that some writers tend to take character's abilities closer to their logical conclusion (such as modern flash) where as others will reign in their capabilities for the sake of drama and story telling. It's sort of like seeing the obvious difference in powers when you juxtapose Silver age or Prime Supes (who could move many, many times the speed of light) against the nerfed modern version.

Another obvious issue is that the writers usually can't keep up with the potential ramifications of the powers they bestow upon their creations. Totally understandable, but it makes nitpicking the scientific implications of certain things somewhat pointless.

I only bring up the Flash as most people who complain (to me) that Superman is boring, say that it's because he's overpowered.

Personally, the nerfed Superman is one of my favourite characters in DCU simply because he *isn't* perfect. A powerhouse, sure, and potentially one of the (physically) most powerful beings in the DCU, but has limitations like anybody else, just at a scale far higher than the beings he chooses to spend time with.

It's the Goku problem; by the end of DB;GT he was so powerful that it wasn't safe for him to remain on earth so he goes off to train with an almost literal God. This is probably the only way to ever end the Superman saga as he only gets stronger with age, as depicted in many canon and non-canon stories.

God i love being a geek.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

all that character development and personal struggle exists. you just haven't read it.
look up: red son(a shattered mirror version of superman), "whats so funny about truth, justice, and the American way?", what ever happened to the man of tomorrow?, and all-star superman(i wasn't a fan of him until i saw this goodbye story to the silver age superman).

I just read the synopsis on Wiki. It's interesting, but leads to the ever present issue of Superman in general. To make him more interesting; they had to do a completely different story in an alternate universe. I get that it would be necessary given the current establishment of his character, but it's an exploration of a completely different character at that point. Kind of like saying all the Punishers in every single movie are the same person; they are clearly not.

ok, on the topic of all the people saying "hes too powerful, hes a boring character" you are all morons.
all you are doing is assuming something you have NO GODDAMNED CLUE about.

have you ever read a story about him? NO.
have you ever watched one of the animated shows? NO.

Actually some people have directly commented on some of the animated shows... <youtube=TwLZu_X8YBE> ...so in essence Superman has always been more powerful than he's let on, and when he finally decides to go balls out he crushes his opponents with a trite amount of effort. Now perhaps this is an isolated incident... <youtube=ZVzGyqSbGew> ...guess he can take an infinite amount of Omega Beams and Darkseid can't handle one... <youtube=dmTg7ROPssc>... apparently you just need to pummel him a little bit to power him up.

Now this could just be chalked up to bad writing, poor direction and catering to one's audience, but this is pretty par for the course. And when this starts becoming orindary, it gets old fast. And no, Superman is not the only one guilty of this.

 

[GodofDisaster]

I don't hate him at all, in fact I respect him for being one of the earliest superheroes and although his powers aren't considered orginal, they're still awesome. I mean who wouldn't like to fly or have super strength. I don't like the way he dresses though, underwear on the outside just looks weird also the incredibles made a vaild point that capes aren't needed.

Also Hiding Spot

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

I don't hate Superman. I'm not a huge fan of him, but I do like the character. Watch Justice League sometime, he's a lot more compelling than you might think.

 

[bobmus]

I don't hate him at all, in fact I respect him for being one of the earliest superheroes and although his powers aren't considered orginal, they're still awesome. I mean who wouldn't like to fly or have super strength. I don't like the way he dresses though, underwear on the outside just looks weird also the incredibles made a vaild point that capes aren't needed.

Also Hiding Spot

Two in quick succession!
Found you!

Superman feels really dated now, at least to me. This may be because he was such an iconic superhero though.

 

[EclipseoftheDarkSun]

Overpowered, no interesting villains, no good recent films (until the Zack Snyder one, which I am hopeful about) and he's the vanilla superhero - he's just a bit too good at what he does. Batman and Spiderman have problems, but Superman can just throw his enemies into the sun!

Well, let's hope the Zack Snyder 'Superman:Man of Steel' is less of a remake of Superman II than Superman Returns was a sycophantic remake of Superman I. I wasn't impressed personally. Superman II was great with General Zod, but now he's returning in this upcoming movie and I have to wonder..

Why can't they try one of the other opponents of Superman not yet explored in the movies for god's sake? *sigh*

 

[Fappy]

As others have said he is incredibly boring. Also, his powers and abilities are extremely inconsistent. He is as strong or weak as the plot demands he be.

 

[Your once and future Fanboy]

If you wan't to sum up why many feel he is overpowered to the point where there isn't any dramatic tension of him being defeated, just see the final episode of Justice League: Unlimited:

-(SPOILERS)-

Darkseid and Brainiac have fused together and is destroying everyone, after he and Superman have fought a good while and Darkseid is dominating Superman, Superman just says he is glad Darkseid is powerful enough now to the point Superman don't have to hold back anymore. Superman then beats him to a pulp in 10 seconds... That's all folks!
All of the previous stories in the Justice League and J.L Unlimited show (5 seasion in total) have now been cheapen'd by this one minute of screentime.
All the tension of the previous episodes where false 'cus the big. blue boyscout could have squashed the enemy anytime he wanted.

-(end of spoilers)-

I guess you didn't saw the rest of the episode. Darkseid responds to Superman attacks and literally has him on his knees. In the end, the world is saved by... Lex Luthor (yeah, I don't know how that turned out either, but since its the last episode, we may never know).

Personally, I think that speech was mostly for bluffing and just to sound awesome. For a short time, Superman beats him nicely, but its not like Darkseid is close to dead. In fact, in several episodes of DCAU, Darkseid is beaten far worst than that.

OK, I remembered it wrong, been a couple of years since I watched the show.
I just remmber that scene because it pissed me off first time I saw it.
But I still think my argument stands. It's like Balder in Norse mythology, he could only be wounded by mistletoe (this is heavely abridged, but Loke used a spell to harden a mistletoe and used it as a arrowhead to kill him in the stories). Therefore unless someone used mistletoe, it didn't matter how strong they where or what they could do, he would never loose and there would be no dramatic tension in the stories (if they used Balder as a comic hero).

So when the episodes feature Superman in a fight against someone who can't use magic or have kryptonite, you can almost just skip to the end and say Yay! (Fluttershy style)

 

[Suicidejim]

Because he's dull. His superpowers are bland and make things easy and uninteresting and he has the personality of a fridge. It's very rare I've ever seen anything involving Superman in which I felt that Superman was in any sort of danger at all. Attempts to try and make him more vulnerable and relatable have always just struck me as writers trying their best to fix the inherent flaws in the original concept.

 

[Your once and future Fanboy]

snip

Well, you just lost all your credibility. Not only did you "remember it wrong", you state that you obviously did not watch anything and so missed out an any kind of character development and struggle.

He, he... Let me just read back to you the first line of my post :
"OK, I remembered it wrong, been a couple of years since I WATCHED THE SHOW."

That's first of all, secondly I didn't say anything about the character development or struggle in that episode (or episodes, depends if you want to count all the parts as a single episode) because it's the same part of development and same struggle as he have been through countless times.
"Oh, no! People are dying and I can't save them all, I can't beat this guy! But now I can by trusting Lex Luthor, OK, teh end!" *

(*For more "trusting Lex Luthor"-plot points: see also "Justice League: crisis on two earths" and "Justice League" season 2 episode(s) 11-12 "A Better World")

 

[hermes]

So when the episodes feature Superman in a fight against someone who can't use magic or have kryptonite, you can almost just skip to the end and say Yay! (Fluttershy style)

To be fair, you could do that with almost every episode (or comic book, if that is the case). They are not going to kill a fan favorite, so they will eventually find a way to beat the bad guy.

Its like every time they kill Batman (once it happened during the show, but several more times in comics). We just know the dramatic tension will not last. But at least I appreciate the animated series for being one of the few places where Superman was interesting and he looked like he was doing some effort during fights.

 

[Your once and future Fanboy]

He, he... Let me just read back to you the first line of my post :
"OK, I remembered it wrong, been a couple of years since I WATCHED THE SHOW."

That's first of all, secondly I didn't say anything about the character development or struggle in that episode (or episodes, depends if you want to count all the parts as a single episode) because it's the same part of development and same struggle as he have been through countless times.
"Oh, no! People are dying and I can't save them all, I can't beat this guy! But now I can by trusting Lex Luthor, OK, teh end!" *

(*For more "trusting Lex Luthor"-plot points: see also "Justice League: crisis on two earths" and "Justice League" season 2 episode(s) 11-12 "A Better World")

*sigh*

Yeah. You are wrong. Even in this particular episode it is not how you display it. There is no episode where he trusts Luthor and even if he works with Luthor from his side (in this particular episode he does not) he never trusts him, he just picks the lesser evil.

JL: Crisis on two earths: It is established around the beginning that this Luthor is not the same person as in the prison and even then they don't trust him.

A better world: Where the fuck does Sups trusts Lex in this episodes? You missed the point why Sups works with Luthor and you do not understand Luthors character.

My little comment was clearly hyperboli.
I responded with an exaggeration seeing how you reacted to me admidting to a little memory loss with a accusation of me never watching the show, I thought exaggeration was the name of the game... And of f'n course he never fully trusts Luthor!
He chooses to work with Luthor even if he never fully lowers his guard. And in "A Better World" Luthor helps them defeat the Justice Lords with the machine we see him with in the start of the episode.

 

[TriggerUnhappy]

Snip
But instead of writing about the various interesting aspects of a character like Superman?s impact on the world around him, they stick to the same trite over and over again, perpetuating a terrible list of stereotypes associated with the character. You can be ridiculously powerful and remain interesting; many characters have done it. Superman appears to fear this exploration in favor of maintaining the status quo as a symbol of hope with little meaning given the lack of real conflict for context.

Wow, pretty much this.

To me, the defining panel of Superman is this:

Spoiler: From All Star Superman

The idea that this alien, a near omnipotent-god who saves the world daily, would stop to save a single suicidal girl using nothing more than base human compassion, is the very definition of what Superman should be in my eyes. That he finds strength and hope in someone on the brink of self-destruction, is something that only Superman could do. THAT is what Superman's core is, not trodding around smiling while saving cats from trees and lifting heavy objects. (yes not entirely accurate to more modern iterations, but that is very much the public impression of who he is)

I think he would be much more interesting if more writers simply added a bit more darkness and pain to Superman's personal/daily life. Not to make him "dark" or "gritty", as so many seem to want. But rather, his world should be a bit darker and nastier, to further emphasize just how super he is. He shouldn't effortlessly trod around fighting the good fight, his hair still perfect without a speck of dust on him. He should have to slog through the mud, really grit his teeth and persevere to succeed, yet remain noble and good through it all. Staying strong in spite of dire circumstances is inspirational, not simply being mighty and noble for the sake of it.

The need for more of a struggle I think would aid in his conflicts as well, make him more exciting and dynamic than: Kryptonite = Danger, No Kryptonite = All good. Whether that means de-powering Superman a bit or emphasizing his stronger opponents, so long as his fights have actual impact and pain to them. That's part of why I'm excited for the upcoming Man of Steel, since Snyder seems to be emphasizing that his new Superman will be much more "physical", as he should be. A modern Hercules in a way. (at least that's how I view it)

This picture really shows my view of how Superman should be while fighting:

Spoiler: Man of Steel Set Pic

Not saying he should be like this all the time, but it doesn't hurt to show Superman a bit ragged yet strong during conflict. Yea that pic will probably be in an entirely different scenario in the film, but still. Keep in mind that I'm not an avid comic reader or anything though, most of what I know about Superman comes from the films or past cartoon series, so perhaps I'm wrong. Still, I'd love to see this type of stuff in the new Man of Steel.

 

[SomeBritishDude]

I didn't like him until I actually read some Superman comics. Some of the best writers in comics have got their hands on him at one point or another, Grant Morrison and Alan Moore most notably. I mean All Star Superman is one of my favourite comics ever.

I'd also that he has been an apsolute badass since the DC new 52.