Why does everybody seem to hate pirates?

Epitome

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Crimsane said:
Pirates are thieves. Someone steals your shit, you're not happy. Tada. Hate for pirates.

While I agree that many anti-piracy measures tend to turn into anti-consumer measures, you can't really just not protect your product. That's like putting "unlocked, steal everything" on your door.
But surely when it went wrong the first dozen or so times somebody should have had a lil lightbulb go off said, DRM is invasive and ineffective we should find an alternative, as opposed to. "Know what would be a good idea? SecuROM :)" Protecting your product yes, at the expense of your customers no. You wouldnt open a store but only allow people in who wore ankle monitors?
Kurokami said:
I'm not one to admit to pirating, (mostly cause I don't see much fun in volunteering information) but I'll say that there's different types, most pirates would go to the cinema or buy a DVD of a movie they think warrants it, whether it be because they were anticipating it a lot or have watched it and deemed it a worthy addition to their collection. I don't see whats wrong with that, just means people know what they're paying for. Then however there's the other pirates who pirate anything with no intention of paying to see or buy them.
But is it then fair to punish them all in equal measure? To fine somebody $125,000 for dling a $20 cd?
 

Kurokami

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Epitome said:
Crimsane said:
Pirates are thieves. Someone steals your shit, you're not happy. Tada. Hate for pirates.

While I agree that many anti-piracy measures tend to turn into anti-consumer measures, you can't really just not protect your product. That's like putting "unlocked, steal everything" on your door.
But surely when it went wrong the first dozen or so times somebody should have had a lil lightbulb go off said, DRM is invasive and ineffective we should find an alternative, as opposed to. "Know what would be a good idea? SecuROM :)" Protecting your product yes, at the expense of your customers no. You wouldnt open a store but only allow people in who wore ankle monitors?
Kurokami said:
I'm not one to admit to pirating, (mostly cause I don't see much fun in volunteering information) but I'll say that there's different types, most pirates would go to the cinema or buy a DVD of a movie they think warrants it, whether it be because they were anticipating it a lot or have watched it and deemed it a worthy addition to their collection. I don't see whats wrong with that, just means people know what they're paying for. Then however there's the other pirates who pirate anything with no intention of paying to see or buy them.
But is it then fair to punish them all in equal measure? To fine somebody $125,000 for dling a $20 cd?
Sure, its a way to majorly discourage it, besides, pirating is pirating so $20, $51959815815, clearly you shouldn't have been pirating. (or got cought)
 

Epitome

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Kurokami said:
Epitome said:
Crimsane said:
Pirates are thieves. Someone steals your shit, you're not happy. Tada. Hate for pirates.

While I agree that many anti-piracy measures tend to turn into anti-consumer measures, you can't really just not protect your product. That's like putting "unlocked, steal everything" on your door.
But surely when it went wrong the first dozen or so times somebody should have had a lil lightbulb go off said, DRM is invasive and ineffective we should find an alternative, as opposed to. "Know what would be a good idea? SecuROM :)" Protecting your product yes, at the expense of your customers no. You wouldnt open a store but only allow people in who wore ankle monitors?
Kurokami said:
I'm not one to admit to pirating, (mostly cause I don't see much fun in volunteering information) but I'll say that there's different types, most pirates would go to the cinema or buy a DVD of a movie they think warrants it, whether it be because they were anticipating it a lot or have watched it and deemed it a worthy addition to their collection. I don't see whats wrong with that, just means people know what they're paying for. Then however there's the other pirates who pirate anything with no intention of paying to see or buy them.
But is it then fair to punish them all in equal measure? To fine somebody $125,000 for dling a $20 cd?
Sure, its a way to majorly discourage it, besides, pirating is pirating so $20, $51959815815, clearly you shouldn't have been pirating. (or got cought)
Generates ALOT of bad press though, false postives ruin lives, suing the dead the elderly because they have unsecured routers?
 

Kurokami

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Epitome said:
Kurokami said:
Epitome said:
Crimsane said:
Pirates are thieves. Someone steals your shit, you're not happy. Tada. Hate for pirates.

While I agree that many anti-piracy measures tend to turn into anti-consumer measures, you can't really just not protect your product. That's like putting "unlocked, steal everything" on your door.
But surely when it went wrong the first dozen or so times somebody should have had a lil lightbulb go off said, DRM is invasive and ineffective we should find an alternative, as opposed to. "Know what would be a good idea? SecuROM :)" Protecting your product yes, at the expense of your customers no. You wouldnt open a store but only allow people in who wore ankle monitors?
Kurokami said:
I'm not one to admit to pirating, (mostly cause I don't see much fun in volunteering information) but I'll say that there's different types, most pirates would go to the cinema or buy a DVD of a movie they think warrants it, whether it be because they were anticipating it a lot or have watched it and deemed it a worthy addition to their collection. I don't see whats wrong with that, just means people know what they're paying for. Then however there's the other pirates who pirate anything with no intention of paying to see or buy them.
But is it then fair to punish them all in equal measure? To fine somebody $125,000 for dling a $20 cd?
Sure, its a way to majorly discourage it, besides, pirating is pirating so $20, $51959815815, clearly you shouldn't have been pirating. (or got cought)
Generates ALOT of bad press though, false postives ruin lives, suing the dead the elderly because they have unsecured routers?
That's something for a lawyer to bring up and a jury to decide. Look I'm not condemning Pirating, but this could be an efficient way in getting rid of it. You forgot to mention kids pirating unaware of the danger, then having their parents sued.
 

Clashero

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WhiteTiger225 said:
People hate pirates because they steal our Tabacco, SugarCane, and Textiles!
And it's really difficult to move a ship around the Caribbean in E:TW without getting attacked by pirates! Dammit, I'm here to fight the Spanish, not sink pirate ships.
 

spuddyt

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Nov 22, 2008
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Kurokami said:
Epitome said:
Crimsane said:
Pirates are thieves. Someone steals your shit, you're not happy. Tada. Hate for pirates.

While I agree that many anti-piracy measures tend to turn into anti-consumer measures, you can't really just not protect your product. That's like putting "unlocked, steal everything" on your door.
But surely when it went wrong the first dozen or so times somebody should have had a lil lightbulb go off said, DRM is invasive and ineffective we should find an alternative, as opposed to. "Know what would be a good idea? SecuROM :)" Protecting your product yes, at the expense of your customers no. You wouldnt open a store but only allow people in who wore ankle monitors?
Kurokami said:
I'm not one to admit to pirating, (mostly cause I don't see much fun in volunteering information) but I'll say that there's different types, most pirates would go to the cinema or buy a DVD of a movie they think warrants it, whether it be because they were anticipating it a lot or have watched it and deemed it a worthy addition to their collection. I don't see whats wrong with that, just means people know what they're paying for. Then however there's the other pirates who pirate anything with no intention of paying to see or buy them.
But is it then fair to punish them all in equal measure? To fine somebody $125,000 for dling a $20 cd?
Sure, its a way to majorly discourage it, besides, pirating is pirating so $20, $51959815815, clearly you shouldn't have been pirating. (or got cought)
When people seem to get bigger fines for piracy than high level corporate embezzlement, I think something is wrong with the system..
 

Kurokami

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spuddyt said:
Kurokami said:
Epitome said:
Crimsane said:
Pirates are thieves. Someone steals your shit, you're not happy. Tada. Hate for pirates.

While I agree that many anti-piracy measures tend to turn into anti-consumer measures, you can't really just not protect your product. That's like putting "unlocked, steal everything" on your door.
But surely when it went wrong the first dozen or so times somebody should have had a lil lightbulb go off said, DRM is invasive and ineffective we should find an alternative, as opposed to. "Know what would be a good idea? SecuROM :)" Protecting your product yes, at the expense of your customers no. You wouldnt open a store but only allow people in who wore ankle monitors?
Kurokami said:
I'm not one to admit to pirating, (mostly cause I don't see much fun in volunteering information) but I'll say that there's different types, most pirates would go to the cinema or buy a DVD of a movie they think warrants it, whether it be because they were anticipating it a lot or have watched it and deemed it a worthy addition to their collection. I don't see whats wrong with that, just means people know what they're paying for. Then however there's the other pirates who pirate anything with no intention of paying to see or buy them.
But is it then fair to punish them all in equal measure? To fine somebody $125,000 for dling a $20 cd?
Sure, its a way to majorly discourage it, besides, pirating is pirating so $20, $51959815815, clearly you shouldn't have been pirating. (or got cought)
When people seem to get bigger fines for piracy than high level corporate embezzlement, I think something is wrong with the system..
Oh, well there I'm absolutely inboard with you.
 

Insanum

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May 26, 2009
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Because Piracy is theft...

Imagine you were in a band, You spent a lot of time & effort & money to make a song. Then your performing it live and someone walks up to the front & holds up a mic to record the whole thing without paying? Sounds like a bit of a prick, Right?

Well thats basic internet piracy.

Sea Pirates are thieves...At sea. Ive never seen the attraction.
 

Signa

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Crimsane said:
Pirates are thieves. Someone steals your shit, you're not happy. Tada. Hate for pirates.
I think this answers the question right here. The problem is that it is such an unsatisfactory answer, because most people who pirate understand that there is a difference between piracy and stealing. Pirates are the biggest consumers [http://www.brandrepublic.com/news/488096/music-pirates-biggest-spenders-legal-downloads/] out there, but no one seems to ever look at the fact that they are still consuming by purchasing the things they want to own. Most pirates are just using the internet as a full, unlimited demo of whatever they want to sample. Demonizing them as "thieves" is just wrong, because they are the ones that are actually spending their money on the stuff they "steal."

Let me use a recent example: Just last night, for the first time, I saw the new Indiana Jones movie. I finished it, feeling that it was the worst blockbuster movie I had ever seen, topping even Battlefield Earth. Now pretend rewinding back in time a year and a half; as an Indiana Jones fan, I may see that the new movie is hitting the theaters, and I have some time to stand in line at the theater opening night and see the long-awaited sequel for a popular franchise. After watching the movie, I would find myself cheated out of my admission. But it would be too late, my money would have gone to the people who made that abortion, and all I could do about it is whine on the internet that the movie sucked. There was a reason why Spielberg and Lucas were so tight-lipped about the plot. They knew they were literally conning audiences out of their money by crapping on a film-reel, and once they people saw it, they would have the audience's money forever. Piracy would have prevented that. People could watch a Cam* on the net, see it as a pile of trash, and never buy it. Conversely, if some one did the same for say, The Dark Knight, Wall-e, or maybe Hellboy II (two of which I did see, and all three do I own) they may be enticed to spend their money to reward the effort put into those movies.

People are smart. The "fool me twice" line really works well in the entertainment industry. Why get ripped off again and again if you don't have to? Is being called a thief worth the hundreds and thousands of dollars you can save by not buying piles of crap? Most pirates say "yes." And as much as my post targets movies, it fully applies to all forms of media. Games, Music, Movies, Software, or even books.

That's another point: If piracy was SOOOOO bad, then how do authors still make money when the government is effectively condoning piracy with the public library system? There is little incentive to buy a good book if you can read it for free there. Yet I've still bought books I've read from there.

*Disclaimer: I've never watched a cam online, nor do I condone their use. Just effing wait for the DVDs guys!
 

hypothetical fact

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Signa said:
Crimsane said:
Pirates are thieves. Someone steals your shit, you're not happy. Tada. Hate for pirates.
I think this answers the question right here. The problem is that it is such an unsatisfactory answer, because most people who pirate understand that there is a difference between piracy and stealing. Pirates are the biggest consumers [http://www.brandrepublic.com/news/488096/music-pirates-biggest-spenders-legal-downloads/] out there, but no one seems to ever look at the fact that they are still consuming by purchasing the things they want to own. Most pirates are just using the internet as a full, unlimited demo of whatever they want to sample. Demonizing them as "thieves" is just wrong, because they are the ones that are actually spending their money on the stuff they "steal."

Let me use a recent example: Just last night, for the first time, I saw the new Indiana Jones movie. I finished it, feeling that it was the worst blockbuster movie I had ever seen, topping even Battlefield Earth. Now pretend rewinding back in time a year and a half; as an Indiana Jones fan, I may see that the new movie is hitting the theaters, and I have some time to stand in line at the theater opening night and see the long-awaited sequel for a popular franchise. After watching the movie, I would find myself cheated out of my admission. But it would be too late, my money would have gone to the people who made that abortion, and all I could do about it is whine on the internet that the movie sucked. There was a reason why Spielberg and Lucas were so tight-lipped about the plot. They knew they were literally conning audiences out of their money by crapping on a film-reel, and once they people saw it, they would have the audience's money forever. Piracy would have prevented that. People could watch a Cam* on the net, see it as a pile of trash, and never buy it. Conversely, if some one did the same for say, The Dark Knight, Wall-e, or maybe Hellboy II (two of which I did see, and all three do I own) they may be enticed to spend their money to reward the effort put into those movies.

People are smart. The "fool me twice" line really works well in the entertainment industry. Why get ripped off again and again if you don't have to? Is being called a thief worth the hundreds and thousands of dollars you can save by not buying piles of crap? Most pirates say "yes." And as much as my post targets movies, it fully applies to all forms of media. Games, Music, Movies, Software, or even books.

That's another point: If piracy was SOOOOO bad, then how do authors still make money when the government is effectively condoning piracy with the public library system? There is little incentive to buy a good book if you can read it for free there. Yet I've still bought books I've read from there.

*Disclaimer: I've never watched a cam online, nor do I condone their use. Just effing wait for the DVDs guys!
People don't buy good products to reward the producers, they buy them because they want them. People pirate products because they want them for less money, whether they are good or bad they get pirated. Also no matter how crappy you think Indiana Jones was, you have no right to see it for free.

Libraries also are not endorsing piracy because their copies are licensed and purchased. Pirated copies are stolen and copied.

Finally do you have any evidence to justify that pirates actually buy everything they pirate and enjoy rather than pirating because they can get away with it?
 

sneakypenguin

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Signa said:
That's another point: If piracy was SOOOOO bad, then how do authors still make money when the government is effectively condoning piracy with the public library system? There is little incentive to buy a good book if you can read it for free there. Yet I've still bought books I've read from there.

*Disclaimer: I've never watched a cam online, nor do I condone their use. Just effing wait for the DVDs guys!
Cause people want to own books rather than a two week "rental". Or they don't wanna get on a 3 month waiting list cause your library is only getting 5 copies of the new harry potter/twilight/book of the month. Its a bit different than DL'ing a movie that you can keep as long as you want and whenever you want.


Anyways.
My reason for hatred of "pirates" is they never admit that they are just too cheap to do something or they try to justify it by saying its a "demo" or "anti DRM" or not good enough to buy. Yeah their might be a few that do but the majority are just too cheap. Just go to any torrent site and its a line of comments like.
"hey thanks uploader V10 A10 Funny/good/whatever movie....seeeeeeddddd plz..." Not hey thanks I wannted to see if this was good enough to buy or whatever.

Or game "why doesn't this work/can I play online with this/instructions how to get it to work/CD keys/ other stuff." Not "I wanted to try this out but there was no demo/thanks for drm free upload/whatever"


EDIT: my favorite excuse, "Its not stealing its copying !!!"
 

cleverlymadeup

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Epitome said:
cleverlymadeup said:
it would almost be better if you referred to them as what they are and that is a thief.

i mean if you say "oh there's some piracy going on" it sounds nice compared to say "oh look there's some theft going on"

if you keep saying piracy it softens it a bit and makes it sound ok but calling them thieves makes it a bit less ok sounding
But the are not theives and therein lies a massive problem. They copy, not steal, the originals are left intact. The law views intellectual property as a property law and so replication is not the same as theft. They are not "taking" anything in the literal sense as they themselves create all the 1's and 0's that they then configure to match the product in question. They are infringers not thieves and calling them thieves just serves to demonise them in media.
you are taking money away from people who would otherwise earn it from your purchase of the product, therefore it's theft and NOT copying

you are doing the same thing and trying to lighten what is actually happening, they are taking away profits from people, therefore they are stealing
 

Jinx_Dragon

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every time a new 'measure' comes out it is nothing more then a challenge to a pirate. I remember the first blu-ray coming out with massive amounts of boasting that they couldn't be copied. A few hours later and you could download them from the net. That sort of claim was just too good to pass up and they broke it like a twig.

All protection will happen the same way, so why do they bother?

Why do they funnel millions on millions into software protection that will never work and then bring out more and more harmful (Spyware even) 'preventatives' that hurt only the legitimate user?

Someone in the industry needs to grow a brain.
 

NoNameMcgee

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People like to hate on the internet because some people get enjoyment from venting at others and creating mountains out of molehills.

Funny that these people seem to speak up on the internet and only on the internet, as in reality piracy is a completely socially acceptable thing, and basically everyone who knows how to do it, does. It's something I can be comfortable talking about with anyone if comes up in conversation, because its completely normal and nobody takes it seriously enough to give a shit about it being a grey area. I have never once come across someone who would damn me to hell for downloading the odd game and mp3 in reality - but like I said, on the internet people get off on the high-and-mighty thing.
 

Yokai

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You definitely have a point. People who are lazy/stingy enough to pirate--or just can't buy the game for some reason--aren't going to be giving the developers/publishers money anyway, so why even bother with them? I suppose it's technically stealing, but unlike stealing real world objects, the victim isn't actually worse off because of it.
I'm no advocate for piracy, but it seems far better to mainly ignore the pirates--adding DRM to a game just means more people are going to pirate it. Besides, cracking down on individuals is counter-productive--copyright agencies and publishers/developers should be focusing on taking down the download links for pirated games, as opposed to punishing individual pirates that they happen to catch. This would take less time and be far more effective.
 

Low Key

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Epitome said:
paypuh said:
I'm sure a lot of people on here bash pirating to make it seem like they aren't doing it themselves.
Abandonware and things I used to own but degraded dont count :)
If that's what helps you sleep at night...