Why does everyone love Bioshock?

[Quellist]

I think anyone who has ever played System Shock II will find Bioshock severely lacking. While it may have smoother graphics and nicely balanced gameplay the complexity was ratcheted down way too much.

 

[jthm]

Am I the only the only person who thought that Bioshock was deeply average?

Sure the story was decent with a few cool plot twists but that didn't make up for the tedious gameplay which became boring and repetitive. People kept on praising the story when games like Fallout and Mass Effect's story is 10x better. They also have better gameplay. I don't hate the game, I'm just pretty underwhelmed.

Does anyone else think it was average or do you think it was great?

The music and thematic lighting/sounds was dead on. The graphics for the time were jaw dropping, the gun mechanics were functional, nothing special but done well. The plasmids on the other hand were done excellently when used in tandem with the environment. I hate to say it, but if you found the gameplay tedious, you weren't using your imagination with the possibilities of character build and plasmid/ammo/environment interaction.

I'm going to have to argue the fallout, mass effect comparisons on the stories too. Fallout had a good story, but the first mass effect was H.P. Lovecraft in Space. I'm not sure how that's better or worse than Ayn Rand underwater.

Game was a classic, goes up there on my top shelf with the copies of FFVI, Chrono Trigger, Deus Ex and Doom.

 

[Treblaine]

The gameplay was really great for the first few hours but it did get a bit repetitive during the middle sections. I basically did the freeze/shoot combo for most of the game. I wish the game would've had situations that forced you into changing up your tactics. Later in the game, I choose to start using the wrench and with all the right tonics stacked, the wrench was so overpowered.

This is what I am talking about, gamers over dependence on "hand-holding".

EVEN IF BORED you won't try anything new until it is SO LONG into the game! You say you have to be forced by game design to try something you want to try anyway. How about you actually use the freedom that is given to you than demand that other freedoms are taken away for you to try them.

Why weren't you trying all the weapons at a steadier pace?

I was trying the other plasmids and weapons here and there, you had pretty much a standard arsenal of guns in Bioshock, I know what those guns are capable of. And, most of the plasmids were weren't that effective. A game should make it so that one tactic should not be allowed to be abused. It's like in a hack and slash game where one combo is effective against every enemy, there's no reason to not use the same combo the whole game then. How is it "hand-holding" if a game throws a new situation and/or enemy type at you that forces you to think of a new combat strategy? That's the opposite of hand-holding as it makes the player think of the solution themselves.

Standard arsenal of guns?

Considering the "standard" game today is a two weapon limit where all the guns are near identical full-auto hitscan weapons that are a 2-5 hit kill, Bioshock is VERY non-standard.

Bolt gun with electro-traps, Flame/Freeze/Electro throwing gun, Proxy-grenades, electro-shotgun, freezing-wrench. These are very unique.

What do you want? A gun that shoots bees? Well there's a plasmid for that!

"A game should make it so that one tactic should not be allowed to be abused."

Yeah, Bioshock does that! Later in the game thuggish splicers become generally immune to electro-bolt and in general they become so much tougher (as much as 10x more health) that you cannot rely on the same combos without suffering a lot and having to use vita-chambers all the god damn time.

"there's no reason to not use the same combo the whole game then"

yes there is, there are many reasons not to mindlessly use the same combo:
(1) it is tediously boring in identical repetition
(2) it is not most effective for all enemies so takes longer and more resources
(3) it doesn't evenly use your resources
(4) it arbitrarily denies you to experience other aspects of gameplay.

My mind is boggled by the depressing lack of endeavour demonstrated by a even a few people on these forums.

"How is it 'hand-holding' if a game throws a new situation and/or enemy type at you that forces you to think of a new combat strategy?"

That is NOT what I am talking about. That IS what Bioshock does!

Sure if you are totally hard-headed and don't want to try anything new, you technically could just spam the same combo over, and over, and over again. But that is pretty foolish considering all the enemies and circumstances that encourage you to try different things!

It's just it does not FORCE you! If you LOOOOVE a combo so much you can go through the whole game with it if you are persistent enough. Hand holding would be to take you and give you precisely the only way to beat something.

You seem to be a really odd case where you seem strangely reluctant try try a superior and more fun strategy/ability unless it is the ONLY one that works.

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

Am I the only the only person who thought that Bioshock was deeply average?

Nope, but you're wrong anyway. Bioshock had a lot of interesting ideas, that whether you like it or not, make it anything but average.

Sure the story was decent with a few cool plot twists but that didn't make up for the tedious gameplay which became boring and repetitive.

I almost agree. The plot was a lot more than a few plot twists, but the gameplay was definitely weaker than it should have been. It seems to me that Irrational were way to ambitious in that category when they started the project, but due to time and budget constraints, they had to scrap a lot of ideas which would have really helped cut down some of the repetitiveness.

People kept on praising the story when games like Fallout and Mass Effect's story is 10x better.

Well, I'll tell you now, you're completely wrong there. The Fallout series' plots have been decent (2 & 3's were fairly generic, but not bad), while ME's has been just... boring. Not the side-plots, or the characters (they were well written by game standards), but the whole Reaper nonsense. Sorry, but I just find it really uninteresting. There really isn't anything particularly remarkable about it. Comparing them to Bioshock's is extremely unfair though. Bioshock is not only an examination of Objectivism (as is fairly wildly known), but also of modern shooters. The plot twist isn't the important part, it's the moments leading up to the twist, or more accurately your actions. You, the player, travel through this dystopian hellhole following the directions of a voice coming through a phone. Think about that in relation to what you learn further on, then tell me "evil aliens are coming to kill us all, and only you can stop them!" is a better story.

They also have better gameplay.

Depends on your taste, but I really don't think Fallout does.

 

[Rex Fallout]

Am I the only the only person who thought that Bioshock was deeply average?

Sure the story was decent with a few cool plot twists but that didn't make up for the tedious gameplay which became boring and repetitive. People kept on praising the story when games like Fallout and Mass Effect's story is 10x better. They also have better gameplay. I don't hate the game, I'm just pretty underwhelmed.

Does anyone else think it was average or do you think it was great?

Because it was an amazingly immersive game that made you stop and think about your actions. Or it should have. We run through so many games where the objectives are, "Run over here. Shoot that. No not that, THAT. Yes THAT. Now run over there. Get behind cover. Shoot that guy. Shoot that guy as well. Good Job. Game over." Instead Bioshock made you realize that non of the, what you thought were normal motions, were of YOUR choice. you had no choice. Because you were conditioned to do what he said. Another reason? The best character in the game, Rapture. Rapture is a character unlike any other. A city built at the bottom of the sea, a modern day Atlantis that should have been paradise. Instead it became hell. You are not going through the story of Jack or Delta when you play bioshock, you are going through the story of the city itself.

That is why I love Bioshock.

 

[Treblaine]

Gawd, you are a hypocrite. You are happy to recommend editing code to compensate for dissolving gun bullshit in SS2 yet you won't factor ticking the check box to turn off the compass in Bioshock? The Quest arrow isn't "hand holding" which you seem to totally misunderstand.

There is a difference between subtly pointing out options and being taken against your will (like a parent leading a toddler by the hand) to the choice that you are forced to make.

Bioshock does do this minimally with the least curtailing of freedom, like Fontaine's Fisheries you lose your guns only temporarily. Also later when the plasmids go crazy you have to rely on your weapons more and try new plasmids you may never have considered before.

The arrow doesn't tell you where all the loot is, where all the hidden rooms and alternate pathways are. It's there in case you get completely lost with just a general clue as where is the right way to go to advance to the next stage.

And you admit to spamming the same attack over and over yet complain that it is boring. If it is boring, why do you do that?

You really have it in for Bioshock, in that you dismiss the Fontaine's Fisheries section being only 3 minutes. Not only is that an exaggeration but it is also irrelevant, the point is that it forces you to TRY new plasmids and that is all you need, an introduction. I don't think ANY developer can accommodate for players like you that seems to constantly fall back on spamming over and over again the most simplistic plasmids (sonic boom).

Maybe you would be more suited to a simpler game with less options, like Halo or something. You just like to spam the same thing over and over again, all the depth and variety of bioshock games is wasted on you if you refuse to use it all unless forced to.

Where did I say it was boring?

Don't worry, I'll wait until you find the quote. It may take you a while seeing as I never did.

Ah Jebus, you PM me to "calm down", then you PM me again to say why I am not replying to you?

But I'm still Mad As Hell And Not Going To Take It Any More, so taste some more madness.

Well for one I have ignored your post till now because you aren't really talking about bioshock any more, you are being a semantic jerk about how technically you never used the word actual "boring".

However you did endlessly complain about how you could just spam the same attack over and over again (even though it's obvious this is not the best tactic) and that this is a bad thing. Presumably because it is boring. Sure sound boring, spamming the same attack over and over again, and you complained enough about it in line with the OP who won't shut up about how bring he finds Bioshock.

You also ignore all my other points summarised, yeh:
-hypocrisy on the quest arrow removal
-aspect of subtly in hints
-importance of player freedom
-how your dismissals misses the point, like plasmid-only section doesn't have to be long

Though I would like to retract the Halo comment as your preference seems to be with SS2 and its ridiculously constrained gameplay. I think you have a problem with freedom in games, you can't make choices for yourself on your own volition.

 

[Treblaine]

Is there a point to a "i like ketchup, i hate mayo... Why does everybody like mayo so much.. it makes no sense!"

Seriously... Personal taste is personal taste. If alot of people enjoy it....it becomes a large title.

But do they like it for reasons related to video games? (I'm playing devil's advocate here)

Take for instance the music industry. What happens quite often, is that particular artists have massive followings, not because they're introducing revolutionary music, or are particularly talented, but rather, because they are attractive and singing/performing.

Well you can actually have a discussion there, in how important image is to enjoying music and whether that is necessarily a bad thing. I mean imagery is a huge part of the music business these days, you could definitely argue that for certain people it doesn't necessarily have to be all about the music. Or how yes it's a rip off of many different works, but it does combine many different works with a unique twist to make it more than the sum of its parts.

OP has given us nothing. All he has said is he hates Bioshock, that apparently it is boring and only suggested inkling is that it isn't exactly like Fallout 3.

 

[AlternatePFG]

When you say Fallout has a better story, and we're talking about games that share the time period, please say you don't mean Fallout 3. Bioshock was an excellent story up until

Spoiler

Atlas/Fontains betrayal, which sorta just let the game meander for a bit before dying in a ditch

Fallout 3's story. The italics are plot holes.

Spoiler

Dad opens the vault, somehow letting in 50 billion radroaches that kill lots of people and drive the overseer crazy, forcing you out.

You go out, and find that people, after 200 years, are still scavenging for salisbury steak and living in dirty shacks, with no attempt at farming or infrastructure made . You find dad in some old vault with an old crazy dude in it. Kudos to the game, that bit was well done.

You help dad fix his big water purifyer until the Enclave attack and attempt to activate the purifyer, which dad also wanted to do. So he blows himself, the Enclave, and the purifyer up.

Someone else wants you to go to Little Lamplight, a settlement populated entirely by kids, which someone still exists and have great difficult going through. You then fight through a billion super mutants, grab GECK, at which point you are ambushed by the Enclave, who apparently made it to the GECK despite the fact they'd of had to go through Little Lamplight, which trust me, they are way too dickish to have done.

The Enclave then decides not to kill everyone like their president wants, the colonel rebels, and decide to just plain activate the purifyer, like dad wanted to. You break out, kill a bunch of dudes, possibly destroy the base, and then have an epic battle for the purifyer despite the fact you are both attempting to do the same thing with it.

Bioshock however, was an interesting, simple (as in straightforward) story that had a wonderful setting and intriguing premise. You might say I'm being unfair with my anlysis, but I stand by my statement that Fallout 3's story and writing was Dumb and Bioshock's was clever.

That's not even getting into the DLC or the sidequests, either! Like going through all of Operation Anchorage just to get past a door. (And not a Vault door either.) I really liked Fallout 3, but it certainly wasn't for the story in the slightest.

OT: I agree completely about the game's story is great until Fontaine is revealed. He is a horrible villain and isn't nearly as good as Andrew Ryan. I think I said in an earlier post that pretty much everything about BioShock is great, except for the gameplay, which is really why I want to like it, but can't. The art design and atmosphere are absolutely perfect though.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Yeah, I thought it was average. Not horrible, but just sort of bland after awhile - yet another corridor shooter with RPG elements. And that final boss was just mountains of meh. I get why people embrace it so much, though. The art style and design were just stunning at times. The first 20 minutes of that game were among the most breathtaking and surreal this generation. It's too bad that most of the gameplay revolved around hitting/shooting things and lame water pipe hacking. I was really disappointed when it didn't get made into a 100 million dollar movie. I thought it had more potential to wow in that medium than in video game form. I have high expectations for Bioshock Infinite, however.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Standard arsenal of guns?

Considering the "standard" game today is a two weapon limit where all the guns are near identical full-auto hitscan weapons that are a 2-5 hit kill, Bioshock is VERY non-standard.

Bolt gun with electro-traps, Flame/Freeze/Electro throwing gun, Proxy-grenades, electro-shotgun, freezing-wrench. These are very unique.

What do you want? A gun that shoots bees? Well there's a plasmid for that!

"A game should make it so that one tactic should not be allowed to be abused."

Yeah, Bioshock does that! Later in the game thuggish splicers become generally immune to electro-bolt and in general they become so much tougher (as much as 10x more health) that you cannot rely on the same combos without suffering a lot and having to use vita-chambers all the god damn time.

"there's no reason to not use the same combo the whole game then"

yes there is, there are many reasons not to mindlessly use the same combo:
(1) it is tediously boring in identical repetition
(2) it is not most effective for all enemies so takes longer and more resources
(3) it doesn't evenly use your resources
(4) it arbitrarily denies you to experience other aspects of gameplay.

My mind is boggled by the depressing lack of endeavour demonstrated by a even a few people on these forums.

"How is it 'hand-holding' if a game throws a new situation and/or enemy type at you that forces you to think of a new combat strategy?"

That is NOT what I am talking about. That IS what Bioshock does!

Sure if you are totally hard-headed and don't want to try anything new, you technically could just spam the same combo over, and over, and over again. But that is pretty foolish considering all the enemies and circumstances that encourage you to try different things!

It's just it does not FORCE you! If you LOOOOVE a combo so much you can go through the whole game with it if you are persistent enough. Hand holding would be to take you and give you precisely the only way to beat something.

You seem to be a really odd case where you seem strangely reluctant try try a superior and more fun strategy/ability unless it is the ONLY one that works.

By standard arsenal of guns I meant Bioshock has pistols, machine guns, shotguns, RPGs, etc. I know what those guns do before even trying them. Yeah, some guns have different ammo types, which is cool. I'm just saying it's not like the game had unique guns that I had to try out to see what they did. The plasmas had to be tried out to see exactly what they did, not the guns.

I started using my freeze/shoot combo to make researching easier as I would freeze an enemy, snap off a couple shots of them, and then shoot them. Outside of the Big Daddies (which were incredibly easy to kill once you got some power guns) and maybe a couple boss characters, you can freeze every enemy in the game, you can use the freeze/shoot combo ALL game. Freezing not only works on basically every enemy but it also works on everything else like turrets, cameras, and bots. Freezing is an easy and effective method combat tactic all game in Bioshock.

For example, Bayonetta forced you into learning how to dodge offset due to certain enemies being immune to witch time so you can't just spam the dodge button to get witch time and then spam the same combo over and over while the enemy is defenseless. And, playing the game on the harder difficulties really makes you become less and less dependent on witch time.

 

[DexterNorgam]

OP, because its a good game.

It's got a good story told in a interesting manner. It has arguably one of the best settings of any video game. It can be played several times without being overly repetitive if you are creative enough to not use the same build over and over.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

Lets see...
1. No regenerating health and an actual life bar?
2. Not set in a jungle or dusty desert environment?
3. Not shooting terrorists or Russians?
4. Able to carry more than 2 weapons?
Sounds like a win to me! Seriously though, I thought the game was pretty good, certainly not the best thing ever however given the stagnation of FPS games lately, pretty much anything that breaks the mold is great to me.

 

[Harry Mason]

Um, because it's really really REALLY good?

It has a more unified aesthetic and color palette than any game I've ever played, a political scientists wet dream for a plot, creative upsets of shooter genres integrated into the main game mechanics, stellar sound design, and a uniquely haunting atmosphere. As far as I'm concerned, it still holds up extremely well for its age and there have been vary few games as creative developed since.

By the by, there's something deeply annoying about people creating entire threads just to say they don't have a taste for something. Can you imagine if people did to opposite?

Thread: "When I played Resistance 2, I enjoyed it."

There are only ever going to be one of two responses to something like that: "Yep!" and "Nuh-uh!"

 

[sean360h]

Am I the only the only person who thought that Bioshock was deeply average?

Sure the story was decent with a few cool plot twists but that didn't make up for the tedious gameplay which became boring and repetitive. People kept on praising the story when games like Fallout and Mass Effect's story is 10x better. They also have better gameplay. I don't hate the game, I'm just pretty underwhelmed.

Does anyone else think it was average or do you think it was great?

It was great in the sense that it was so unique as was bioshock 2 which I loved but(but nobody else did) I will agree mass effect and fallout far surpass bioshock in almost every category but then again I have friends who thing the peak of what people can achieve in gaming is call of duty Black Ops and the only game that will surpass it is modern warfare 3 so opinion is opinion

 

[Treblaine]

By standard arsenal of guns I meant Bioshock has pistols, machine guns, shotguns, RPGs, etc. I know what those guns do before even trying them. Yeah, some guns have different ammo types, which is cool. I'm just saying it's not like the game had unique guns that I had to try out to see what they did. The plasmas had to be tried out to see exactly what they did, not the guns.

Really? You are actually complain about this?

How about you name some firearms that the game could have had that ARE unique! So bohemian you had no idea what you would do till you tried them out to see what they actually do.

Really I'd like to hear what better weapons you would suggest for bioshock, yes I am calling your bluff. I'll make it easy, point out a game with a better arsenal of firearms, not just semantically, but how they are USED!

And what is the problem with having some firearms that follow some conventions in any way? The weapons are hugely varied in their strengths and weaknesses, there is no "assault rifle" that is just good at everything.

The weapons really did have to be tried out, the differences in fire rate, recoil and so on you can't just make assumption like that the Tommy Gun won't have much recoil when it does.

I started using my freeze/shoot combo to make researching easier as I would freeze an enemy, snap off a couple shots of them, and then shoot them. Outside of the Big Daddies (which were incredibly easy to kill once you got some power guns) and maybe a couple boss characters, you can freeze every enemy in the game, you can use the freeze/shoot combo ALL game. Freezing not only works on basically every enemy but it also works on everything else like turrets, cameras, and bots. Freezing is an easy and effective method combat tactic all game in Bioshock.

Except you lose all the loot when you shatter them. Did you not realise that?!? And you can't freeze to chip away most of their health as unless you break them enough to shatter them then they'll come back with only a fraction of HP lost!

Missing out on all that great loot = balance

Also you will be over using your Eve or LN. how about trying some different tactics that won't cost you so much great loot AND make better use of the loot you have.

Yes, freezing is ideal for machines but not for human enemies, it does no direct damage and cost you loot which is a serious cost with Big daddies and special-characters who drop some serious loot that you don't want to miss.

...playing the game on the harder difficulties really makes you become less and less dependent on witch time.

Bioshock on higher difficulties the freeze time gets ridiculously short, you either have to spend a lot of eve or resort to using heavy artillery to shatter them before they thaw. Actually, just progress all the way through the game and thaw time reduced with increased health that also takes more hits.

Yeah, I thought it was average. Not horrible, but just sort of bland after awhile - yet another corridor shooter... I was really disappointed when it didn't get made into a 100 million dollar movie...

 

[DexterNorgam]

Am I the only the only person who thought that Bioshock was deeply average?

Sure the story was decent with a few cool plot twists but that didn't make up for the tedious gameplay which became boring and repetitive. People kept on praising the story when games like Fallout and Mass Effect's story is 10x better. They also have better gameplay. I don't hate the game, I'm just pretty underwhelmed.

Does anyone else think it was average or do you think it was great?

It was great in the sense that it was so unique as was bioshock 2 which I loved but(but nobody else did) I will agree mass effect and fallout far surpass bioshock in almost every category but then again I have friends who thing the peak of what people can achieve in gaming is call of duty Black Ops and the only game that will surpass it is modern warfare 3 so opinion is opinion

I also enjoyed Bioshock 2. It was not perfect, and probably wasn't as good as the first, and probably didn't really even need to be made with the way Bioshock wrapped up, but I for one was just appreciative of another ticket to Rapture.

 

[sean360h]

Am I the only the only person who thought that Bioshock was deeply average?

Sure the story was decent with a few cool plot twists but that didn't make up for the tedious gameplay which became boring and repetitive. People kept on praising the story when games like Fallout and Mass Effect's story is 10x better. They also have better gameplay. I don't hate the game, I'm just pretty underwhelmed.

Does anyone else think it was average or do you think it was great?

It was great in the sense that it was so unique as was bioshock 2 which I loved but(but nobody else did) I will agree mass effect and fallout far surpass bioshock in almost every category but then again I have friends who thing the peak of what people can achieve in gaming is call of duty Black Ops and the only game that will surpass it is modern warfare 3 so opinion is opinion

I also enjoyed Bioshock 2. It was not perfect, and probably wasn't as good as the first, and probably didn't really even need to be made with the way Bioshock wrapped up, but I for one was just appreciative of another ticket to Rapture.

The only thing in bioshock that drove me insane was the fact that every now and then it would give you a simple objective like walk to the elevator at the end of the corridor and you could bet your life that that elevator would be gone by the time you reached it and you'd have to walk all the way across rapture to get to another elevator

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Yeah, I thought it was average. Not horrible, but just sort of bland after awhile - yet another corridor shooter... I was really disappointed when it didn't get made into a 100 million dollar movie...

I didn't say the movie was going to be any good. I just thought it might have a chance of looking good. Considering the money and people attached, it would have at least accomplished that goal. Are big budgets that repellant to you? Because Bioshock the game cost millions of dollars to make to begin with, I assure you.

 

[Treblaine]

Yeah, I thought it was average. Not horrible, but just sort of bland after awhile - yet another corridor shooter... I was really disappointed when it didn't get made into a 100 million dollar movie...

I didn't say the movie was going to be any good. I just thought it might have a chance of looking good. Considering the money and people attached, it would have at least accomplished that goal. Are big budgets that repellant to you? Because Bioshock the game cost millions of dollars to make to begin with, I assure you.

No, I just know what a couple hundred million dollars on a Hollywood film gets you: anything and everything is liable to be changed to maximise ticket sales at the cost of integrity. And you admit right here you don't even expect it to be good... yet $100 millions dollars in Hollywood that seems to be expected.

Rapture is not a place you can explore in a 2.5 hour runtime on a cinematic format, I think you'd struggle with several 20+ episode seasons like with Lost discovering about The Island and its inhabitants. As a game, you explore rapture at your own pace, seeing, experiencing and influencing so much to learn more about it in significant meaningful way.

The idea of condensing it down to a movie as anything other than an addendum to get people to play the game... genuinely sickening.

PS: as expensive as video games are, they aren't a patch on films. For example, Inception cost $160 million while Bioshock cost $15 million. That's greater than a whole order of magnitude more expensive.

 

[dyre]

I thought the game's environments and atmosphere were excellent, and the backstory was quite interesting, but the actual plot was a bit dull. The gameplay got boring over time, even with cool stuff like shattering ice and electrocuting water (don't really remember; it was awhile ago). I enjoyed the game, but I never got the "wow, I'm blessed to have had the privilege of playing this game" feeling I got from, say, Witcher 2 or Mass Effect 1.