Why doesn't the iPod touch get recognition as a handheld gaming console?

[migo]

Cause it has no tactile buttons

Accelerometer based games can't be played in travel

the touch screen is nowhere near as precise as the DS'

Accelerometer based games work perfectly fine in travel, I do it all the time. If you have big hands the DS might work fine, but if your hands are smaller you can't reach the majority of it in a two handed fashion. Yes, selecting objects with a stylus is more presise than using your finger, but the importance of that depends on the game you're playing and how the software handles it.

 

[migo]

Becuse it just isn't... Dude, It's for playing music, not games, people who think we should take the phones and music players seriously in gaming are almost as bad as the people who keep making motion controls... And on that note

Did anyone else who saw the PS3 move think it controlled better than Wii?

No, it's not for playing music. If you want a dedicated music player you get a Cowon or iRiver.

 

[migo]

I think the real answer to this question as in no recognition for the ipod touch is alot of apple enthusiast are not gamers.

You're quite likely right about that. No hardcore gamer would have stayed with Apple, it's only recently that iOS has become a viable gaming platform.

 

[migo]

Incorrect. Sony were working in conjunction with Nintendo before the release of the PlayStation, and certain game developers would have known about this and looked towards the technically superior CD player in the PlayStation to enhance their games. Squaresoft were among them.

Mac OS in the 68k and PPC days had exclusive Mac game developers, and some very good games, particularly Bungie, Pangea and Ambrosia. It's not, but that amounts to the same as what Sony had with the PS. You were talking about prior gaming pedigree, not involvement with other gaming manufacturers.

Point-and-click adventure games are among those few games that do work well on touch screens, and yet, I'd still rather play them on a PC.

If you can put your PC in your pocket, sure. The iPod touch has a very slim profile, it's very light. I can leave it in my pocket and not notice, that's something that no PC can bring to the table, and even the DS and PSP don't deliver on that. Pocketability is a standard for comparing handheld consoles, and since PCs don't meet that requirement they're not a valid point of comparison.

One of the substantial problems with the iPhone/iPod Touch's capacitative screen is that it blocks out quite a bit of the screen when you jam the pad of your thumb or finger on it, killing off precision, even if it's more accurate than resistive touch screens and slightly more intuitive than a mouse.

No, it's not a substantial problem, at all. Again you're showing that you have no experience whatsoever and are just making this up.

Considering that some point-and-click games - I'm thinking specifically here of Beneath A Steel Sky - have you pixel-hunting for certain in-game objects, I quite like having precise controls.

Pixel bitching is retarded anyway. Any game that still requires that isn't worth playing, and all the good remakes of point and click adventures do away with it.

Sounds like that would be a rather digital option to choose; considering how important analogue accelerator and brake controls can be to my driving style, it seems like quite a big compromise to take. This could be why I typically stick to platformers and RPGs on my Nintendo DS, rather than trying to find racing games with compromises.

I'll pick steering over analog acceleration and braking. It's nice to have both, but steering is the most important.

This could be a consequence of your driving style as much as the controls. Considering that the cars in the PlayStation Gran Turismos were tail-happy anyway, the licence tests weren't absurdly hard for me, once I figured out that the corners needed smooth lines to counteract that tendency. Indeed, playing Gran Turismo 4, my biggest problems tend to involve understeer because of the high traction control and stability management on all of the cars, which I intuitively turn off on my PC racing simulators.

Or the simulation nature of it. Once I set the tires up properly I had no oversteer problems whatsoever. I don't drive in real life, so I had to rely on advice of a friend of mine who drives but doesn't play racing games, and the tire advice he gave me solved the issue perfectly. That tells me the simulation is highly accurate.

It was raved about in the early days, which I found rather peculiar, because Doom's been ported to loads of different platforms, including mobile devices running PalmOS, Windows Mobile and other pre-iOS mobile operating systems. I guess that the game landscape has changed somewhat, and yet, I've seen few people who own iPhones or iPod Touches that would go outside the realms of casual games, if they even played games at all.

The game software for iOS has changed massively since 2007 and 2008.

For a lot of people, an iPhone is a boutique device, not purchased because they're going to use any of the features but instead because it looks flashy and potentially impressive.

This was true in 2007. Not at all true in 2010.

These aren't the people who are going to play NOVA or GT Racing or the games you've been talking about, and in fact, because the iPhone proves to be a poor phone and more of a minature tablet computer, they'd be better off without it altogether. 50 million iOS devices doesn't mean 50 million people that are going to play games on their devices.

The best selling games for iOS outsell the best selling games for the PSP. In fact, iOS games sell more than PSP games with actual purchases and pirated downloads combined, to say nothing of all the pirated iOS games as well. Despite not every iOS device being purchased for gaming, iOS devices have a far higher gaming attach rate.

Tactile feedback has always been of critical importance to me, not just tactile differentiation. Capacitative touchscreens always remind me of membrane keyboards, in that they offer about the same amount of tactile feedback, except the touchscreens have become more popular. Considering that your thumbs are obscuring a large portion of the screen, diminishing the amount of available screen space for actually viewing things, there lies another disadvantage of the layout which is only corrected by the iPad, which has its own problems for gaming, like being too bulky and heavy.

Maybe your thumbs are just really big, but my thumbs obscure only a very small portion of the screen, and I've found it only a problem in a small portion of games that have been poorly designed.

I've used touchpads on laptops for gaming. They suck - they're imprecise, awkward and lack smooth control of the pointer - and are a contributing factor to why I now use a portable wireless mouse with my laptop, even though it isn't a strong gaming machine. The same problems lie with capacitative touchscreens, and I believe they have the same technology underpinning them.

It still beats out using a D-Pad.

Here's where your laptop experiment gives a new perspective; the laptop controls were actually loathsome. I think the same of capacitative touchscreens for controlling anything fast-paced, like first-person shooters or real-time strategy games (as opposed to turn-based strategies, which work more smoothly but with no additional functionality with a touchscreen over a D-Pad).

RTS games heavily rely on the keyboard anyway, so while they would work poorly on iOS, it's not like they'd fare any better on the DS or PSP. FPS games work better than they do on the DS or PSP. Now it may be inadequate for you, but that means the DS and PSP are also inadequate, and FPS performance again doesn't disqualify the iPod touch from being considered a gaming device.

We're back to the changing perspective problem again. Depending on the sensitivity of the tilt controls, you either have problems with the shift in perspective, or you end up with problems with fine motor control of the flying machine. I like having a steady perspective on screen, with the changes coming as a result of what I did in game rather than what I physically did to the device.

No, you can have your cake and eat it too. Parcel panic handles it perfectly, it's not a big name game, but it shows how it's done. In flight games, the perspective is supposed to change with you.

It also locks out the device to people with muscular tremors, as an aside.

That's a a really, really, really, weak argument.

 

[Meggiepants]

I'm going to give a fairly simple answer and say it's because people aren't buying the iPhone or the iPod touch (for most gaming purposes the same device) primarily for gaming.

As someone who owns a variety of gaming systems as well as an iPod touch, I've never once been compelled to play the games on my iPod touch over any of the systems. I suspect I'm not so unlike most gamers.

You can say the games are great, but the fact is to sell something like the iPhone as a gaming system, the games need to be better than great, they need to beat the pants off the other systems. And they just don't. The iPhone is a very limited device and can only do so much.

Until people (and buy people I mean more than the odd outlier) start buying iPods and iPhones for gaming first, instead of as music devices and phones, then the industry will take the iPhone seriously as a gaming platform. Until then, it just won't happen.

 

[AdamRBi]

Actually, I don't care if it is or not. Games are being made for iOS. It's becoming a bigger target for developers than the PSP by a large margin, and is quickly catching up to the DS in that department (although 3DS might swing that back). It has A-list titles, it has casual mini games, and everything in between, all at a fraction of the price that you'd pay for on the PSP or DS. Developers aren't going to stop making games just because a portion of people on gaming websites don't see it as a game system, so it has no effect on me. I'm just curios why people don't consider it as such, and the main answer based on the vast majority of responses here is ignorance. Not that that's a bad thing, but it's rather odd that people who obviously know nothing about it choose to flaunt their lack of knowledge.

If I may, I have an iPod Touch and I have issues with even the play and fast forward buttons sometimes.

Look, as many people here have said; It may be able to play games, but unlike a PC that is a Multipurpose tool the iPod and iPhone are in essence a Music Player and a Phone respectively. It can play games, but it wasn't designed to be a gaming device and that's not what even Apple itself calls it. They'll advertise it, because that's one of it's many features, but they don't go around calling it a handheld gaming console.

Yes Game developers are Designing games for it.

Yes, some are good.

Though just as "The Internet" is not listed as a platform for all the Flash Games it has the iOS won't be listed. It's not a full blown console nor has it garnered respect as one from even casual gamers. No one buys a iPod/iPhone for the games, that's just a fun, extra feature.

EDIT:

I'm going to give a fairly simple answer and say it's because people aren't buying the iPhone or the iPod touch (for most gaming purposes the same device) primarily for gaming.

As someone who owns a variety of gaming systems as well as an iPod touch, I've never once been compelled to play the games on my iPod touch over any of the systems. I suspect I'm not so unlike most gamers.

Until people (and buy people I mean more than the odd outlier) start buying iPods and iPhones for gaming first, instead of as music devices and phones, then the industry will take the iPhone seriously as a gaming platform. Until then, it just won't happen.

^ Basically This.

 

[migo]

Those are all big franchises, but their Itouch versions all suck horribly.

You're pulling that out of your ass. They work very, very, well.

When it has some good games and not just crappy versions with the same name as good games on other platforms, I'll be interested.

You're moving goal posts, but I didn't take you seriously from your first post so it's not like this has really damaged your credibility.

 

[migo]

I'm going to give a fairly simple answer and say it's because people aren't buying the iPhone or the iPod touch (for most gaming purposes the same device) primarily for gaming.

As someone who owns a variety of gaming systems as well as an iPod touch, I've never once been compelled to play the games on my iPod touch over any of the systems. I suspect I'm not so unlike most gamers.

You can say the games are great, but the fact is to sell something like the iPhone as a gaming system, the games need to be better than great, they need to beat the pants off the other systems. And they just don't. The iPhone is a very limited device and can only do so much.

Until people (and buy people I mean more than the odd outlier) start buying iPods and iPhones for gaming first, instead of as music devices and phones, then the industry will take the iPhone seriously as a gaming platform. Until then, it just won't happen.

It doesn't take that much. As RAK pointed out one key issue with a portable gaming system is battery life. While the iPod touch isn't in the great category, it's in the good enough category for battery life.

Where it really shines is the fact that all the games are digital and the price. For the PSP, the reason people go for CFW is to play games off the Memory Stick. Primary reason is battery life improvements. Secondary reason is carrying more than one game at a time. Tertiary reason is price (as in they're not paying for it). With the R4 it's the same on the DS, except primary reason is having multiple games on one card, and secondary is price.

The iPod touch has the battery life equal to a CFW PSP running games off the Memory Stick. It has all the games on one system, so portability is massively improved, and the games range from Free to $10. The cheapest games on the PSP start at $10, or if you're lucky used you might hit $6 or $7 for a sports game. Just as people were unwilling to pay $20 for an audio CD for one track that they liked, and resorted to downloading songs for free, people are unwilling to pay over $20 for the games that come on the PSP, and will download them instead. By contrast they are willing to pay $1-$4 that most games cost, and $10 for the big name titles they really want (there are always people who will pirate anyway, and this certainly evens it out putting the DS in the lead thanks to battery life, but for people who don't pirate, the iPod touch has a massive advantage in really having limited incentive to do so).

The price range and digital distribution also allows for a number of games that are single gameplay elements with randomly designed levels and high scores. At DS or PSP prices they'd need to be included in some sort of compilation, if you're only paying $1 for it, or getting it for Free on the iPod touch, you're getting bang for your buck. These games are great since with only a single gameplay element anyone can pick it up and start playing right a way, and since they're high score based they appeal to the hardcore gamers who like to see how far they can get and how high they can boost their score. With low development costs and initial investment (beyond time), it also allows for some new and creative game types that wouldn't be viable on the DS or PSP. Games like Zen Bound for instance. They might not appeal to everyone, but they're cheap enough to start off with, and fun for some people, so the App Store ends up having far more breadth of games than you get on any other platform.

That's where the iPod touch has a massive lead over the PSP and DS, and I'm quite interested to see what the iPod touch 4 offers as it will inevitably come with a gyroscope, and potentially a camera for augmented reality games. I won't buy one, as I'm more interested in the 3DS at this point, but it's still bringing new gaming possibilities around.

 

[SovietSecrets]

Most of the games on it are way overpriced and they all suck except a couple of rare good ones. TD type games are all its really good for, anything else is just crap.

 

[Kanodin0]

Instead of quibbling over semantics about what does or does not constitute a game system I offer a simple answer. The reason the Ipod Touch and other Apple products are not recognized as real consoles is because the vast majority of people who care about such a distinction have no interest in them whatsoever.

You are a member of the minority who not only care about such a distinction but also like Apple products as gaming systems. It must gall you to see everyone else be so dismissive towards systems you like. Regardless you will never force anyone to take these systems seriously, even if you are technically correct (which is not to say you are, I lack information to make that judgement), so I suggest you relax and not let it bother you.

As a preface, I actually quite hate Apple. They dicked me over with Tiger, being the only OS to include Safari 2.0, which was then quite necessary on a Mac, and to install Tiger I needed a computer with a USB port. That was just so much bullshit! Anyway, I just thought I'd get that out of the way before people accuse me of being an Apple Fanboy.

Ha! You are a heretic arguing with heathens. I will explain, your claims of hating apple revolve around intimate details of the products, and how they ultimately proved unsatisfactory. Complaints only someone deeply immersed in the product could make. Thus you are a heretic, someone well versed in Apple products who knows them better then most pure fans but dislikes some aspects. But we by and large are heathens, people who have nothing to do with Apple and even less interest in them (for gaming at least, I'm sure some people here really love Apple products and that's just one aspect ignore).

 

[Fatalis67]

Why doesn't the iPod touch get recognition as a handheld gaming console?

Because it's "games" are terrible?
Seriously. They are.

Don't forget that it's made by Apple. And Apple gaming console is an oxymoron.

 

[Miles Tormani]

Huge snip

You know what? I had a big set of counterpoints here before, but I removed it for one simple reason. Going over your responses to me, you seem to have missed the single hardest point of my entire post.

You are a fanboy.

You may not be a fanboy of Apple, given your excessive paragraph long message of all the reasons you hate Apple computers, but you are a fanboy of the iPod Touch itself. Why else would you go to great lengths to point out all the reasons why I'm wrong? After all, most of the things I said were opinion, like my own dislike for Metroid Prime: Hunter's controls, and you still felt the need to play that down as if I was wrong. You even went so far as to claim my English comprehension was lacking, when the thing I said was not invalid. People do zig-zag on REAL roads, and I'm pretty sure Ford doesn't build cars with DualShocks yet.

Just accept it. That's the only reason you're going to such great lengths for people to care about the damn thing. You love it, and you want everyone else to as well.

 

[Sneaky Paladin]

My phone plays games therefore my phone must be a handheld console!

See the logic there?

 

[Meggiepants]

Snip

That's where the iPod touch has a massive lead over the PSP and DS, and I'm quite interested to see what the iPod touch 4 offers as it will inevitably come with a gyroscope, and potentially a camera for augmented reality games. I won't buy one, as I'm more interested in the 3DS at this point, but it's still bringing new gaming possibilities around.

I won't deny that there is a possibility Apple may one day be able to call their product a gaming system. To count Apple out completely would be foolish.

But your question was why the iPod touch didn't get recognition as such. My point was that it isn't sold as a gaming system, and until it is, it won't be defined as one.

Before the iPad came out, Apple sent out all kinds of press releases about how the iPad would change the face of gaming. They've pulled back on that propaganda somewhat. I believe it's because they weren't getting any traction in the gaming community for their product. People we're interested in the iPad as a netbook device, but not as a gaming device.

It all comes back to the games. Each console has a game that propelled it into the spotlight. Nintendo has Mario, Sega had Sonic, Playstation had Final Fantasy and Gran Turismo, Xbox has Halo.

Without a defining must have game, exclusive to Apple, it will be difficult for them to break into the gaming market in any meaningful way. They will continue to be viewed as the phone that also games, or the mp3 player that also games.

 

[migo]

Most of the games on it are way overpriced and they all suck except a couple of rare good ones. TD type games are all its really good for, anything else is just crap.

This is just plain ludicrous. $1 is overpriced? You can pay $40 for a crap game on the PSP. It's completely the opposite of what you claim.

Seems almost nobody who's a gamer has the slightest clue about iOS.

 

[migo]

Instead of quibbling over semantics about what does or does not constitute a game system I offer a simple answer. The reason the Ipod Touch and other Apple products are not recognized as real consoles is because the vast majority of people who care about such a distinction have no interest in them whatsoever.

You are a member of the minority who not only care about such a distinction but also like Apple products as gaming systems. It must gall you to see everyone else be so dismissive towards systems you like.

No, it amuses me actually, if I let my bias against Apple get the best of me I'd run with it.

Regardless you will never force anyone to take these systems seriously, even if you are technically correct (which is not to say you are, I lack information to make that judgement), so I suggest you relax and not let it bother you.

It's not that that bothers me, it's that people apparently can't read, or choose not to, and continue to spew crap that's demonstrably false two pages into the thread. You'd think they'd have realised by now that repeating what people said on page 1 that was already debunked would be pointless.

Ha! You are a heretic arguing with heathens. I will explain, your claims of hating apple revolve around intimate details of the products, and how they ultimately proved unsatisfactory. Complaints only someone deeply immersed in the product could make. Thus you are a heretic, someone well versed in Apple products who knows them better then most pure fans but dislikes some aspects. But we by and large are heathens, people who have nothing to do with Apple and even less interest in them (for gaming at least, I'm sure some people here really love Apple products and that's just one aspect ignore).

I'm sure you're right, I just thought I'd put that in there. I have a strong dislike of a number of companies, but I also recongise when they actually put out good products.

 

[migo]

I'll make this short and sweet.

Why else would you go to great lengths to point out all the reasons why I'm wrong?

Because you are wrong. Notice that people who make well reasoned explanations aren't getting the same kind of reaction out of me.

 

[Danpascooch]

Those are all big franchises, but their Itouch versions all suck horribly.

You're pulling that out of your ass. They work very, very, well.

When it has some good games and not just crappy versions with the same name as good games on other platforms, I'll be interested.

You're moving goal posts, but I didn't take you seriously from your first post so it's not like this has really damaged your credibility.

Actually, I'd say I have much more credibility than you, the fact is, the Itouch is not taken seriously as a gaming device, I am giving you reasons why, but you seem to think that if you shoot down enough of them with broad blanket rebuttles like "you pulled that out of your ass" without any sort of logical or intelligent reason why it's wrong, that that will change and suddenly everyone will use Itouches over Gameboys.

I gave you the reason, and insulting me doesn't change the fact that facts are on my side, the ITouch is not taken seriously because most of its games are sheer shovelware, and the ones that are good on other systems have nothing new or unique to offer on the Itouch.

Your immature "moving goal posts" comment implies that you think this is some sort of game, and that people don't take the ITouch seriously simply because they haven't read your thread about how it's as good as everything else yet. The fact is, it's not taken seriously, and it's not because they haven't heard you tell them why it's so great yet, it's because it has nothing new to offer, and mostly shovelware as it's best selling games.

You wanted reasons, I gave you reasons, but you seem content to delude yourself into believing that anything counter to your worship of the ITouch is wrong and invalid, and that society is just too stupid to realize that.