Why Halo is called innovative?

[Gormers1]

Aw christ... look, guys, let's get some things straight. We could argue all month about exactly which game did exactly which mechanic before Halo, or which game did an approximation of a mechanic, but to do so would be to loudly admit that you are completely devoid of a social life. Now, this is a games forum, so that's kind of a given, but come on! To sit there and draw out huge fuckin' lists about which N64 shooter did precisely whatever gimmick first goes above and beyond the call of duty. It makes you guys look like anally retentive pedants, and it does something else.

It shows that you actually care about Halo.

Seriously, if you guys actually didn't give a damn about the game, like so many of you say, then why do you waste your precious minutes and hours compiling lists, trying so desperately to prove everyone else wrong. There are plenty of other threads to post in. Something about the game must have gotten your knickers in a twist.

At the end of the day, I stand by what I said. While not every single mechanic in Halo was brand fucking new, it took the best of what had come before, added some ideas of its own, and proudly proclaimed the next generation of gaming. It helped make games mainstream. It showed that not all gamers are bespeccled dweebs fresh out of chess club. Sometimes your average Joe likes to sit back and blast the shit out of something. Christ, Halo 2 made more in its opening weekend than any movie in history (or something like that). How is making games popular something to sneer at?

Oh, and Timesplitters isn't all that great.

Would you rather have post like this:

"Halo is innovating in every way"
"No its not. Its completely derivative"
"Yes it is"
"Yeah I know, derivative"
"Fuck you, xbox rules" etc

Thres no point in posting here if youre not willing to actually discuss it, and only say what opinion you made yourself up about the game ages ago. Unless this thread only wants to count how many thinks its innovative, think its not, think it is a little innovative etc. But the thread title is "why is halo called innovative".

I thought it would be good to actually "learn" something from other posts, instead of just posting your opinion on a topic, and maybe quoting someone else and writing "+1" if you are a clone of them, not actually giving a shit about how what other write. Thats how I feel most other threads are.

I know its kind of nerdy and boring, but at least here people are responding to eachother.

 

[JokerGrin]

If you ask me, it was a tiring, bland ol' shooter. Fairly decent AI I guess, but I'll never understand this "innovative" shooter. Imagine if it had just been released on the PC? It would completely fall by the wayside.

 

[RIOT MAST3R]

halo 1 started all this space marine stuff

No, that was Warhammer 40k that started that look. (And that starship troopers book before that).

No. Alien started the whole space marine thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_marine

Touche`

 

[RIOT MAST3R]

Alright. Imma gonna throw the gauntlet. Name an fps with a better story.

 

[RIOT MAST3R]

Halo had a better storyline than any shooter before it.

Sorry for back tracking a bit but this post stood out to me, so much so that I created an account with which to say this in rebuttal: WHAT!?!?!Best storyline? For an FPS? Are you kidding? It wasn't bad, but the best? Nawwwwwwwww....

Now, Halo was not without innovation, many of the things mentioned time and time again in this thread made the game the fun fest that is was. God knows I spent hours A'schoolin my computer illiterate friends in LAN or split screen. Console FPS gave those less knowledgeable (geeky) people a chance to play without having to worry about system specs, installation, and other things you might have to deal with on a PC. My friends had to learn the controls, but so did I. Mouse and keyboard have been ingrained into my mind for the past 17 years. The control layout for Halo was and still is solid (though not as accurate as a mouse). Game play was fun and the scenery was varied and beautiful. But this is only Halo 1.

Halo 2 brought multiplayer, and while this does have merit and seems to work on a general level, there are deterring factors. Xbox Live has little to no moderation. Major issues are dealt with, but the majority of the minor stuff cannot be dealt with on such a large centralized system. I am a gamer, and as such when playing team games I like to be able to cooperate with my team. This is almost impossible to do when a 12 year old wants to tell you and your team about how "good" he is. Or some faceless frat boy spewing hate, racial slurs, and sexist ideals. THIS IS NOT LIMITED TO HALO, but because of the accessibility of the game it has become the breeding grounds for this sort of stuff. I'm not saying that all gamers on Live are like this but most of you know exactly what I'm talking about. If these kids were to do this kind of thing on say a Valve server (depending on who owns the specific server) a Mod would be there shortly to kick and probably ban the offender.

In closing, I like Halo, not the most innovative, but quite fun, and probably one of the most copied games these days. However, just as a playful jab, what if we took this question and applied it to another game. I'll use Half-Life, mainly because it is a pretty well known game, but also because I am a Valve fanboy. How was Half-Life innovative? If we discussed this in length and then compared its innovation with that of Halo, the difference would be very apparent. So yes, Halo is good clean fun, but like all good things it has some flaws.

Alright. Imma gonna throw the gauntlet. Name an FPS with a better story.

 

[LornMind]

Because Game journalists are sellouts and corporate lapdogs and Most Xbox gamers are stupid.

I didn't realize I was incapable of enjoying other games other than Halo; I should throw away my Orange Box, my COD's, Bioshock, eh, just every game I own huh?
I didn't realize owning a 360 made me stupid.

Guess I should stop taking Calculus. And Literature. And not go to college.

But then I'd end up like you.

Everyone is a corporate lapdog. Everyone.

Piss off. Stop generalizing. It only makes you look stupider.

 

[Chickenlittle]

Alright. Imma gonna throw the gauntlet. Name an fps with a better story.

Other games had better stories, but most weren't as in-depth or well-thought-out, with mysterious and unrevealed backstory to boot.

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

Halo had a better storyline than any shooter before it.

Sorry for back tracking a bit but this post stood out to me, so much so that I created an account with which to say this in rebuttal: WHAT!?!?!Best storyline? For an FPS? Are you kidding? It wasn't bad, but the best? Nawwwwwwwww....

Now, Halo was not without innovation, many of the things mentioned time and time again in this thread made the game the fun fest that is was. God knows I spent hours A'schoolin my computer illiterate friends in LAN or split screen. Console FPS gave those less knowledgeable (geeky) people a chance to play without having to worry about system specs, installation, and other things you might have to deal with on a PC. My friends had to learn the controls, but so did I. Mouse and keyboard have been ingrained into my mind for the past 17 years. The control layout for Halo was and still is solid (though not as accurate as a mouse). Game play was fun and the scenery was varied and beautiful. But this is only Halo 1.

Halo 2 brought multiplayer, and while this does have merit and seems to work on a general level, there are deterring factors. Xbox Live has little to no moderation. Major issues are dealt with, but the majority of the minor stuff cannot be dealt with on such a large centralized system. I am a gamer, and as such when playing team games I like to be able to cooperate with my team. This is almost impossible to do when a 12 year old wants to tell you and your team about how "good" he is. Or some faceless frat boy spewing hate, racial slurs, and sexist ideals. THIS IS NOT LIMITED TO HALO, but because of the accessibility of the game it has become the breeding grounds for this sort of stuff. I'm not saying that all gamers on Live are like this but most of you know exactly what I'm talking about. If these kids were to do this kind of thing on say a Valve server (depending on who owns the specific server) a Mod would be there shortly to kick and probably ban the offender.

In closing, I like Halo, not the most innovative, but quite fun, and probably one of the most copied games these days. However, just as a playful jab, what if we took this question and applied it to another game. I'll use Half-Life, mainly because it is a pretty well known game, but also because I am a Valve fanboy. How was Half-Life innovative? If we discussed this in length and then compared its innovation with that of Halo, the difference would be very apparent. So yes, Halo is good clean fun, but like all good things it has some flaws.

Alright. Imma gonna throw the gauntlet. Name an FPS with a better story.

oh god you didnt....

Half Life. And if I can get away with it (which I doubt) then Deus Ex.

 

[Kevin7557]

Thankyou for pointing that out so I didn' have to but I will anyway. Most of the crap is wrong and I will now go through and point out each one
-Recharging health in an FPS hadn't been done before. You really want to try to make that statement. I am sure it has been implemented in some PC game before. God there are so many it would be hard not to.
-Console local co-op in an FPS hadn't been done before. You can link PS2s
-Console local co-op in an FPS hadn't been done before. That is more of a concol thing not special to a game.
-Omission of a lives system had not been in a console FPS before. DO You even play fps? Um Black, Halflife, Any other fps this century.
-Respawning in co-op mode had not been done in an FPS before.: Umm yeah you do. That is old.
-Hot-Keyed grenades in a console FPS had not been done before. Again wrong. You really need to get a ps2
-Having no bosses in a console FPS had not been done before. That is not new. Black didn?t ether. Except a mass fight at the end which isn?t technically a boss fight.
-Cubic and bump mapping had not been done in a console FPS before.
-The type of water shading used had not been done on a console fps before. Okay I can?t prove that that hasn?t been done before but I won?t say it hasn?t
-Seamless background loading had not been done in an FPS before. Yes it has. OMG get a ps2. and play a fps.
-Seamless vehicle interaction had not been done in a FPS before. Honestly did you just make this up or are you trying to be serious.
-The two weapon limit had not been done in an FPS before. Yes it has. Black.
-Sticky grenades had not been done in a console FPS before. Okay but that is not revolutionary as it has been done on the PC. If not somewhere on the PS2
-The number of 3d characters on screen had not been matched on a console FPS before. Are you kidding me. BLACK. Read my words Black. Get it and play it. Or if you choose not to look and you will easily find somegame that proves you wrong.
-Seamless in-game flight had not been done in a console FPS before. YES IT HAS. PS2 games have done this.
-Halo's complex enemy AI had not been seen before. HALF LIFE 1 PS2. or how about half life 2 for the x-box.
-The number of NPCs in a console FPS had not been seen before. Wrong again. Are you even a gamer or someone who just jump on the Halo phase.
-Such large levels had not been seen in a console FPS before. Black.
-The physics had not been implemented to the same extent in a console fps before. Yes it has it is called Half Life Play it. In fact their engine has been an industry standard from what I have heard.
-16 person multi-player in a console fps had not been done before. Again not revolutionary as MAG is coming out and it is doing 258 players and that once again was a concol limitation and that could have been fixed by linking PS2s. and also wrong. Have you ever heard of a game called Socom.

Seriously are you even a gamer. Honestly now those are all wrong and the PS2 could accomplish the same alot of the time. Seriously did you even check that or do you believe what others tell you.

 

[Cucumber]

Okay, I've taken my time and read through the entire collection of fanboy arguments and semi-objective statements. And I can't add anything else to this discussion than this:

I might not be entirely correct here, but as far as I recall, Halo:CE was one of the first FPS's for Xbox (Or at least I think it is, im not entirely sure). And the Xbox might have been the first console of many young gamers. So this game might have been the first good FPS they've played, and then natually it's the best! I am no diffrent, my first was Goldeneye, and I still find it as the best, despite all it's flaws and semi-tacky controls.

What I'm saying is that many Halo fanboys aren't fanboys because they're ignorant, it's because they dont know better. And I believe that all fanboys and haters deserves a slap! I personally believe that your arguments are non-worthy until you embrace the obvious facts instead of ignoring/excusing them.

And an reoccuring argument I've seen is that the game brought PC game quality to the 'box, and I PERSONALLY believe that this one cannot be left alone with this added statement from my hateful mouth:

"Halo brings PC game quality to consoles..." ... but I still find the PC version better. And I've played BOTH!

Has it ever occurred to you that you might be the fanboy in this situation? You're openly insulting anyone who defends the game, denouncing their arguments as semi-objective and non-worthy while providing none of your own.

Your sole contibution so far has been "I still find the PC version better"

Well thanks. That ends the debate right there.

I'm sorry, did I sound too hateful? My previous post was driven by my end of patience. And that makes my arguments more frustrated, and less informative. And yes, that makes me no better than anyone else =D

I will now desperatly add some points that I forgot in my previous post:

I can not put enough emphasis on 'I'.
I personally think the PC version was better!
I personally believe that every ignorant person on this earth deserves a slap. But not a slap of hate, but a slap of help. A "wake-up-and-face-the-facts" slap.

"Openly insulting anyone who defends the game..."
I think my anger overwhelmed my message, let me try again:
People defending the game is perfectly ok with me. They apparently like the game for reasons I fail to understand. What I do NOT think is ok is people that tries to defend something when the exact opposite has been proven. Example:
Fanboy: "Y'know, its proven that Jesus would play Mario if he came back, it's true!"
Smart guy: "How do you know that? Are you sure he even would play videogames?"
Fanboy: "It's true! IT'S IN THE BIBLE!"
(this might be a bit extreme. please bear with me )
This is my picture of the stereotypical fanboy-extremist. Is it time for me to change my idea of this stereotype?

Can you forgive a desperate person trying to defend his last shred of dignity? =)

 

[Gormers1]

*LOTS OF TEXT* +
Seriously are you even a gamer. Honestly now those are all wrong and the PS2 could accomplish the same alot of the time. Seriously did you even check that or do you believe what others tell you.

Seriously...
Seriously did you know that Black came out FIVE YEARS after halo?
Seriously...

Seriously though, at first I didnt understand why so many people would say that "halo wasnt innovative but incorporated things well". It didnt help that noone would explain to me why it was so. But thanks to Rajin Cajun I can finally get some sleep. Seriously though, there are still things I find innovative about halo, Ill guess I post a massive post about halos AI sonner or later.

 

[maffro]

Halo :CE wide open environments, slightly smarter enemies, seamless vehicle combat and well balanced weaponry, all on a console.

Halo 2: Same as before, but now with a strong, simple, effective multiplayer segment on a console.

Halo 3: Same as before, but now with arguably the best community support on a console, with photos, films, maps gametypes and Editors on a console.


No matter what happens, Halo has done something, everyone else has followed suit. I've seen a hell of a lot of community video support come out since Halo 3...

I don't know why people criticize the games. I think they're fun, exciting, have any number of ways to play them. And it's indisputable how important they've been to the development of games.

 

[Chickenlittle]

Thankyou for pointing that out so I didn' have to but I will anyway. Most of the crap is wrong and I will now go through and point out each one
-Recharging health in an FPS hadn't been done before. You really want to try to make that statement. I am sure it has been implemented in some PC game before. God there are so many it would be hard not to.
-Console local co-op in an FPS hadn't been done before. You can link PS2s
-Console local co-op in an FPS hadn't been done before. That is more of a concol thing not special to a game.
-Omission of a lives system had not been in a console FPS before. DO You even play fps? Um Black, Halflife, Any other fps this century.
-Respawning in co-op mode had not been done in an FPS before.: Umm yeah you do. That is old.
-Hot-Keyed grenades in a console FPS had not been done before. Again wrong. You really need to get a ps2
-Having no bosses in a console FPS had not been done before. That is not new. Black didn?t ether. Except a mass fight at the end which isn?t technically a boss fight.
-Cubic and bump mapping had not been done in a console FPS before.
-The type of water shading used had not been done on a console fps before. Okay I can?t prove that that hasn?t been done before but I won?t say it hasn?t
-Seamless background loading had not been done in an FPS before. Yes it has. OMG get a ps2. and play a fps.
-Seamless vehicle interaction had not been done in a FPS before. Honestly did you just make this up or are you trying to be serious.
-The two weapon limit had not been done in an FPS before. Yes it has. Black.
-Sticky grenades had not been done in a console FPS before. Okay but that is not revolutionary as it has been done on the PC. If not somewhere on the PS2
-The number of 3d characters on screen had not been matched on a console FPS before. Are you kidding me. BLACK. Read my words Black. Get it and play it. Or if you choose not to look and you will easily find somegame that proves you wrong.
-Seamless in-game flight had not been done in a console FPS before. YES IT HAS. PS2 games have done this.
-Halo's complex enemy AI had not been seen before. HALF LIFE 1 PS2. or how about half life 2 for the x-box.
-The number of NPCs in a console FPS had not been seen before. Wrong again. Are you even a gamer or someone who just jump on the Halo phase.
-Such large levels had not been seen in a console FPS before. Black.
-The physics had not been implemented to the same extent in a console fps before. Yes it has it is called Half Life Play it. In fact their engine has been an industry standard from what I have heard.
-16 person multi-player in a console fps had not been done before. Again not revolutionary as MAG is coming out and it is doing 258 players and that once again was a concol limitation and that could have been fixed by linking PS2s. and also wrong. Have you ever heard of a game called Socom.

Seriously are you even a gamer. Honestly now those are all wrong and the PS2 could accomplish the same alot of the time. Seriously did you even check that or do you believe what others tell you.

Get your facts straight. Halo: Combat Evolved was released as a game that shipped with the original X-Box, the first sent out. Black was released towards the very end of the X-Box's lifespan. You might want to consider having your head checked before backing up any more claims. Unless, of course, you're referring to Halo 2 or Halo 3, and in both cases, you're still out of whack, since most games after Halo: CE for the next few years tried to copy it in every imaginable way except the story and appearance. Granted, Half-Life was released in 1998, but I haven't played it yet. I know that some of the claims made were a tad on the exaggerated side, but please, do try and know your release dates, m'kay? Also notice that I'm not going to try and counter every point, since I haven't played some games you mentioned, and don't know when they were released.

 

[Joeshie]

Alright. Imma gonna throw the gauntlet. Name an FPS with a better story.

Deus Ex, Half-Life, System Shock 2, Bioshock, Call of Duty 4, Half-Life 2, etc.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

If there was this question, report it for deletion. Thanks!

I go over the internet, and people keep talking about Halo being innovative [like in the other Innovative FPS thread]. I think it is worth a seperate thread to talk about it.

Was I the only one who saw the standard "Here's is your weapon, go kill bad guys" scheme? I really don't have a clue why it is innovative!

The Halo series is fairly innovative in general, certainly not a game especially notable for innovation such as Little Big Planet or Pikmin but still inventive for a shooter.

The original has the most obviously. First off is the control scheme, and along with that being the first console shooter that actually compared well to PC shooters. A two layer health system, part that regenerates (which allows for consistent intensity of action) and part that doesn't (although in the sequels it regenerates but more slowly). And a heavy emphasis on vehicles.

The second is the least innovative. It's claim to fame is it's online multiplayer, specifically matchmaking. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a similar system had existed among PC games far earlier but I would still consider adapting such a system for a console as innovative.

As for the third we have Forge and Theater. These are of course possible with all PC games but rarely if ever are built-in and simple to use features. And as before adapting PC features to console games is innovative.

Regarding your comment on the "Here's your weapon, go kill bad guys" scheme; that's the fundamental basis of every shooter ever made (unless you're calling Portal a shooter, it's a puzzle game IMO) so you probably did catch that. However there is more to Halo than that, most of it just isn't shoved into your face (like for example, the fairly good story). And I think you'll have noticed (assuming you played the campaign of Halo: Combat Evolved) that you begin the game with no weapon but have no lack of bad guys to kill.

In closing, I would not call Halo innovative. I'd call it a game with innovations. Most don't make that distinction, which leads to pointless arguments such as the ones that no doubt exist in the 8 pages I neglected to read prior to posting this.

EDIT:

Someone said Halo was the first FPS with the sticks each controlling strafe and aim. They are wrong.

Which game makes that person wrong?

 

[The Wooster]

Thankyou for pointing that out so I didn' have to but I will anyway. Most of the crap is wrong and I will now go through and point out each one
-Recharging health in an FPS hadn't been done before. You really want to try to make that statement. I am sure it has been implemented in some PC game before. God there are so many it would be hard not to.
-Console local co-op in an FPS hadn't been done before. You can link PS2s
A profound amount bullshit

Seriously. Don't blast people for a lack of research when at least 80% of your claims are false or irrelevant.

Cucumber. I didn't mean to jump down your throat, just your choice of words made it look like you weren't reading the counter arguments at all. Halo is a good game but it's a lot like a Rambo film (any film after the first one) you have to switch off a section of your brain to get the best of it. It's really quite addictive if you give it a chance.

 

[The Wooster]

If there was this question, report it for deletion. Thanks!

I go over the internet, and people keep talking about Halo being innovative [like in the other Innovative FPS thread]. I think it is worth a seperate thread to talk about it.

Was I the only one who saw the standard "Here's is your weapon, go kill bad guys" scheme? I really don't have a clue why it is innovative!

The Halo series is fairly innovative in general, certainly not a game especially notable for innovation such as Little Big Planet or Pikmin but still inventive for a shooter.

The original has the most obviously. First off is the control scheme, and along with that being the first console shooter that actually compared well to PC shooters. A two layer health system, part that regenerates (which allows for consistent intensity of action) and part that doesn't (although in the sequels it regenerates but more slowly). And a heavy emphasis on vehicles.

The second is the least innovative. It's claim to fame is it's online multiplayer, specifically matchmaking. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a similar system had existed among PC games far earlier but I would still consider adapting such a system for a console as innovative.

As for the third we have Forge and Theater. These are of course possible with all PC games but rarely if ever are built-in and simple to use features. And as before adapting PC features to console games is innovative.

Regarding your comment on the "Here's your weapon, go kill bad guys" scheme; that's the fundamental basis of every shooter ever made (unless you're calling Portal a shooter, it's a puzzle game IMO) so you probably did catch that. However there is more to Halo than that, most of it just isn't shoved into your face (like for example, the fairly good story). And I think you'll have noticed (assuming you played the campaign of Halo: Combat Evolved) that you begin the game with no weapon but have no lack of bad guys to kill.

In closing, I would not call Halo innovative. I'd call it a game with innovations. Most don't make that distinction, which leads to pointless arguments such as the ones that no doubt exist in the 8 pages I neglected to read prior to posting this.

EDIT:

Someone said Halo was the first FPS with the sticks each controlling strafe and aim. They are wrong.

Which game makes that person wrong?

Medal of Honour with a dualshock on the PS1.

 

[Lancer723]

Halo :CE wide open environments, slightly smarter enemies, seamless vehicle combat and well balanced weaponry, all on a console.

Halo 2: Same as before, but now with a strong, simple, effective multiplayer segment on a console.

Halo 3: Same as before, but now with arguably the best community support on a console, with photos, films, maps gametypes and Editors on a console.


No matter what happens, Halo has done something, everyone else has followed suit. I've seen a hell of a lot of community video support come out since Halo 3...

I don't know why people criticize the games. I think they're fun, exciting, have any number of ways to play them. And it's indisputable how important they've been to the development of games.

Eloquently put. This is the best argument I've seen here yet, Bravo.