why hating on kony 2012 is inherently wrong

[RagTagBand]

Oh i'm sorry, I didn't realize that airing legitimate criticisms against a clearly in-need-of-careful-critique charity was something that shouldn't be done. I do love your "Agree or STFU" Policy, It tells me how liberal, reasoned and enlightened you are.

People who do not agree with the Kony 2012 bollocks aren't, believe it or not, instantly helping or agreeing with Joseph Kony.

I know YOU might not have known about this guy until a week ago, but that doesn't mean everyone was quite as ignorant on global affairs as you and just because Invisible children have had the loudest campaign against him does not mean that they have made the only campaign against him. If you had actually paid attention to the criticism, rather than simply continuing to be ignorant about EVERYTHING, you'd have deduced that Invisible children are simply not the best charity to be donating to unless you want to see them make more films; If you'd like them to actually help the people in africa, uganda and the congo they're a terrible choice.

If you're under the impression that Public pressure, or how much money for films Invisible Children has, is the only thing stopping Kony being brought to justice then this CLEARLY underlines just how ignorant you are of the ENTIRE situation.

You don't understand the situation
You don't understand the important of the criticism
And frankly you don't have any valid reason for standing on your soapbox and talking down to anyone.

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

What they hate is privileged American kids feining interest in something they know nothing about and hasn't been an issue since they were in fucking short pants. Also, don't quote things out of context. Makes you look really stupid.

My main problem. I don't dislike the campaign itself, just the people who see everyone else posting this crap, deciding to follow the crowd, and then forgetting about it the next day.

I find two links relevant here.
http://i.qkme.me/36h9t3.jpg
http://www.google.com/trends/?q=Kony&ctab=0&geo=all&date=mtd&sort=0

My favorite one is

http://www.theafricareport.com/index.php/news-analysis/kony-2012-and-a-lot-of-angry-ugandans-501807410.html

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

1. i never said that re-posting a video helped bring down kony (and i never personally did) i just said that we had the potential to do it (however we completely fucked it up)
2. dude let me get afew hundred thousand people together to all shout hate at you over the internet (mostly for very poor reasons) and see how it affects you because it doesn't matter how thick skinned you are it will get to you and next thing you know youre the guy in drugs embarrassing himself
3. i dont personally support invisible children but they had the potential to be something i could get behind and i know several people who looked carefully at both sides of the argument and chose to support knoy 2012 they, were not sheep and they did a damn site more good (IMO) in supporting invisible children than all the people combined who have effectively destroyed it

as i just replied to some one else hating on invisible children accomplishes nothing, it doesnt help the ugandans, it doesn't help bring kony to justice and it destroys on of the few charities that has had any sort of success in addressing the issue (no matter how little it actually managed to do in the end) if anything its just counter productive and it would have been much better for everyone if it didnt happen

That's what I was getting at; it doesn't have the potential to bring Kony down and revering it as a saviour of all Ugandan people is stupid. He should have been well aware of what the internet does when he started and should have prepared himself for a backlash of hundreds of thousands of people to shout at him and his 80 million supporters. Besides, I was ridiculing the idea that I helped destroy him, rather than actually agreeing that I did. I'm not saying they were sheep, they were the minority of people who actually bothered to make a thought out decision. The people who supported it blindly are the moronic sheep.

I destroyed Kony 2012 because I disagree with Invisible Children almost entirely. 31% of donations is not enough and supporting the Ugandan military more so than the Ugandan people is ridiculous. The military enforces a horrific government and has been accused of rape, pillaging and child recruitment; effectively sending you back to square one. I'm not cool with people doing that so I'm going to shout and wave my arms like Kermit at everyone who does support it.

 

[the random]

Just because you disagree with Kony doesn't mean you should hate him and try to destroy him. God, you're such a terrible person.

made me lol, im sure you were joking but if you dont get the difference between some one committing war crimes deserving to be punished and some one trying to help out a situation (even if their not doing the best job) getting flamed to death by the internet before any good could come of it

 

[TheIronRuler]

Well, wrong and right don't really exist.

yes they do for example raping some one is wrong
giving some one who is dying of thirst water is right

trying to bring and evil man to justice is right
destroying some ones life who is trying to bring said evil person to justice is wrong

.
What if you're forced to do the rape and if you refuse that man the keeps you both captive will kill both the victim and an orphange full of children?
What if the man dying of thirst is a wanted criminal with a death penalty looming over his head?
What if that evil man became a turncoat and is now working against his former friends. Stopping him would mean that you would not be able to catch others like him.
What if the man that wants to bring him to justice does it on purely personal reasons and has nothing to do with ideology?
...
This whole thread seems pointless. Are you trying to argue against all of the people that rallied against him? Like mentioned earlier, this is a group to raise awareness of the issue. Also, you can't really address the people here as the ones that attacked the group. To tell you truth I haven't even heard of it up till now... Interesting.

 

[Darth_Dude]

yes they do for example raping some one is wrong

Why?

giving some one who is dying of thirst water is right

Why?

trying to bring and evil man to justice is right

Why?

destroying some ones life who is trying to bring said evil person to justice is wrong

Why?

You cannot make a logical connection between any stance/action/etc and "rightness", because such a thing does not exist. When you say something is "right" or "wrong", you aren't making a factual statement.

Really? Seriously?

There are really people out there who think Rape isn't wrong? This is just...academic. I know you're trying to say that 'right' and 'wrong' are subjective terms, but...

Come on man. Do we really need to explain why Rape is wrong?

 

[Rawne1980]

Shows how much I pay attention. This is the first i've heard about invisible children (unless we're talking ME3 ending again and we don't want to go there).

All I will say, after looking into it a bit, is anyone who thinks a Facebook charity has any chance of changing anything or catching anyone is seriously deluded.

 

[The Funslinger]

okay the reason why is that the internet had opportunity to do something good, yes maybe it wasn't something great and better things could be done but we had opportunity to do something really good by bringing some one who killed hundreds of people, made hundreds of children into drug slaves and destroyed thousands of lives to justice

but instead everyone jumped on a huge hater band wagon mostly for small, petty, illegitimate reasons or even down right lies, its true that there are some legitimate reasons to disagree with invisible children but only 1% of hater's ive seen use them and these people couldn't disagree quietly no they went about trying to destroy all of invisible children's support with the same energy and determination were if the same energy and determination were used to support kony 2012 this guy would probably have been bought to justice by now but instead they destroyed the life work of a guy who was trying to do something good and could have succeeded, and destroyed it to such a degree he got high on drugs and ran round the street naked and now people are dancing on his corpse, i hope your happy haters you win congratulations i hope your really proud of yourself and the worst part is that all this grew from an opportunity to do something good.

dont bother commenting trying to excuse your behavior or explain to me why destroying this guys life was the correct thing to do because it wasnt and under no circumstance would destroying this guys life be acceptable when all he was trying to do was bring an evil person to justice and you destroyed him for it

if you hated in invisible children you should be fucking ashamed of yourself

Yes, clearly we haters are the ones responsible for this mans decesion to do drugs and then run around naked in the streets. We forced him... nay! WE BULLIED HIM INTO HIS NEGATIVE CHOICE!

KONY ISN'T THE REAL MONSTER, WE ARE!

...

>.> #AreYouSeriousBro?

hey man, some people don't appreciate a social issue being forced on them, no matter what that issue is.

dude if your life work was destroyed by internet trolls i bet you would go downhill fast, i think i would probably go nuts over it hell it upsets me just watching it happen to some one else

people hating on invisible children probably wasnt the only reason why he went crazy but it was definitely a BIG factor and the bottom line was that there was no reason for this to happen but people wanted to see a charity devoted to bringing an evil man to justice fail.

i fail to see how anyone can defend this behavior in ANY way

How about because IC's charity proceeds support the Ugandan army?

The Ugandan army. You've fucking seen them, right? They've got one hell of a habit of rape and pillaging. Yeah, they could be argued as better than Kony, but by a gnat's wing.

In any case, Kony is only fractionally as active as he used to be, and beyond that, he's not in Uganda anymore. So IC is doing nothing to stop him. Finally, only about 30% of the proceeds go to the Ugandan army. That 70% is being kept back, so IC are clearly the ones directly benefiting from this.

With these points, I fail to see how anyone could defend IC in any way.

 

[the random]

First off: People don't typically take kindly to uppity teens getting up on their high horse to argue a point. I highly suggest you put less emotion into your writing so people won't think less of you.

Second off: What you're arguing isn't really clear. It's hard to decipher the purpose of this post through the needless rhetoric. The purpose certainly wasn't to invite discussion, if anything, your post consistently tries to shut out opportunities to disagree or argue with the point (whatever that is).

Thirdly: Trying to impose your opinion on others is incredibly rude and makes you look like an ass. Don't do that.

thanks ill take that on board in future post's allot of people seamed to misinterpreted it, i just stated my opinion on the topic that hating on the charity invisible children was wrong and seeing if i could maybe change afew people round to my way of thinking, that even though it wasn't a very good charity flaming it to death when something good might have come of it wasnt the best course of action and was probably the worst cause of action. (i also tried not to add a huge wall of text as people dont like those when with hindsight a huge wall of text would probably have been best)

 

[Danial]

Brooker wins again.

 

[the random]

Brooker wins again.

this is damn hilarious what tv show is this from?

 

[lord canti]

What somebody got a bunch of hate on the internet? Seriously if you do anything on the internet people are going to hate you for it ,but to say those people are responsible for driving a man to do drugs who was probably on drugs to begin with is ridiculous.

 

[Vegan_Doodler]

... is wrong ... the right thing to do

You did it again.

You assumed absolute morality exists..

absolute morality maybe not but most of the world can agree that some one who made 10 year old girls into crack whores should be taken into custody and punished for their crimes

Argumentum ad Populum.

What the world agrees on doesn't matter.

im going to continue with this because this is a fun topic to discuss (unlike battling invisible children haters)

i think popular opinion does matter and that its ingrained into our very society and culture, for example if you look at basic laws like not stealing, not murdering, these became laws because the majority of people view them as wrong and a huge amount of resources money, time, effort ect are out into place to try and stop them from happening

the whole world doesn't have to agree on something (and probably never will) but what is right and wrong goes by mob rule and if the opinion "blank" is wrong or "blank" is right depends on some sort of critical mass of people who agree with that statement and when enough voices speak one opinion loudly enough it becomes the norm that "blank" is right or "blank" is wrong and anyone who thinks otherwise and is foolish enough to post their view of it on the escapist will get flamed to death

First of, DarkRyter, if you could explain this to everyone who I've ever had a moral debate with that would be grate.

The random, there is still a flaws in your reasoning, consensus or numbers dose not make something, for want of a better word, right. there are a lot of people around today who are racist, sexist or homophobic but that doesn't make it "right". Now you believe your morality to be sound, and I'm not saying it is or isn't, but if every body in the world disagreed with you would you consider your self to be wrong even if you understood your own reasoning.

We don't have laws because the majority of people think the acts are "wrong", there are three base line reasons (these could obsequiously vary widely)
1. Because in ancient times the biggest and meanest homo-sapiens who took control of groups of people got really sick of his workers (essentially slaves) from killing each other off.
2. Because we feared (and still do) death, and so if someone where to come along and say they can remove things that could potentially kill us the majority will likely give their silent, obedient, consent, (ten internet points to who ever got that reference). This is actually a reason why crime books and shows have always been popular, it is reassuring to see that police can capture and control serial killers and mad men.
3. Because humans have a need to impose order, whether it be through laws, religion, social edicate, because otherwise they would have to accept the fact that the universe is not benevolent or even cruel but indifferent. Cathulhu.

In essence, morality is a construct of the human mind to impose order and stop it from going mad at reality, while hold mine in high regard, they shouldn't be the basis of a logical argument.

Well as for the OP, while liking something on Facebook has no effect on anything (except Fem-shep) and the people who are acting like freedom fighters really need to get some perspective and shut the hell up, your right their is no logical reason to hate anything.

 

[SextusMaximus]

Wow, talk about someone blindly following a cause.

1) The movement's intentions are good
2) The movement's actions consist of funding and supplying an army of murderers and rapists.
3) I agree with the idea of finding and spreading awareness of Kony, even if he's not been seen in Uganda since 2006.
4) It's all very, very complicated and has been simplified down into a 30 minute video.

Also, learn to give people respect; especially if you've clearly done no research past watching a 30 minute, very one sided video.

 

[Sunrider]

but instead everyone jumped on a huge hater band wagon mostly for small, petty, illegitimate reasons or even down right lies

It's pretty much the other way around. Kony 2012 is the biggest bandwagon I've seen in years (not counting the Mass Effect 3 haters)

this thread wasnt really about whether or not you agree with invisible children its the fact that hating on invisible children was wrong because by doing it you helped some one get away with war crimes

Excuse me WHAT?!
So if you don't support IC, you are actively HELPING someone get away with war crimes?
I'm sorry, but if you believe that, all your credibility just flew out the window.

 

[Vegan_Doodler]

yes they do for example raping some one is wrong

Why?

giving some one who is dying of thirst water is right

Why?

trying to bring and evil man to justice is right

Why?

destroying some ones life who is trying to bring said evil person to justice is wrong

Why?

You cannot make a logical connection between any stance/action/etc and "rightness", because such a thing does not exist. When you say something is "right" or "wrong", you aren't making a factual statement.

Really? Seriously?

There are really people out there who think Rape isn't wrong? This is just...academic. I know you're trying to say that 'right' and 'wrong' are subjective terms, but...

Come on man. Do we really need to explain why Rape is wrong?

... is wrong ... the right thing to do

You did it again.

You assumed absolute morality exists..

absolute morality maybe not but most of the world can agree that some one who made 10 year old girls into crack whores should be taken into custody and punished for their crimes

Argumentum ad Populum.

What the world agrees on doesn't matter.

How about this:

Raping a woman is wrong. Why? Because I said so.

Saving an innocent man from dehydration is right. Why? Because I said so.

Morality is highly based on perspective; laws are based on morals backed by general consensus. I don't see what about this requires some philosophy undergrad to derail the topic to explain.

Notice how you both avoided the question? When someone says that something isn't inherently wrong, they are NOT saying it is right, they are saying that morality shouldn't factor in to objectivity. And the "Why? Because I said so" argument has no value because it is so vague as to be applied to anything and ruin your own argument, Hitler why is genocide OK? Because I said so. Not to sound like a git but if someone can give me a logical, rational argument why something is completely inherently bad without relying on arbitrary believe systems I will completely change my world view and give £100 to child's play.

 

[MeanMarsh]

Look no one is saying Kony deserves to run free, we all want him caught but invisible children are going totally the wrong way about it. I mean really Kony hasn't been active for around six years and if anything this campaign will just raise his fame and power and force a reaction. Furthermore funding the Ugandan armed forces (a group who have themselves been accused of war crimes) is not a constructive use of peoples money and is conclusive proof of the view that sometimes doing something CAN be worse than doing nothing.If anyone really wants to help then they should write to their political leaders and donate money to more legitimate charities for example the Red Cross.

 

[Rallus]

Hey guys, why are you hatin' on Stalin? He's pivotal in the fight against Hitler and is also bringing his country into the industrial world. Why you gotta do so much harm by looking at all the fucking horrific shit he does? Criticizing him just strengthens Hitler.

I see what you did there and can see the resemblance, albeit being to a lesser extreme.

 

[EternalFacepalm]

Look no one is saying Kony deserves to run free, we all want him caught but invisible children are going totally the wrong way about it. I mean really Kony hasn't been active for around six years and if anything this campaign will just raise his fame and power and force a reaction. Furthermore funding the Ugandan armed forces (a group who have themselves been accused of war crimes) is not a constructive use of peoples money and is conclusive proof of the view that sometimes doing something CAN be worse than doing nothing.If anyone really wants to help then they should write to their political leaders and donate money to more legitimate charities for example the Red Cross.

You basically summed up all my thoughts regarding the KONY 2012-thing, thank you, good sir.

this thread wasnt really about whether or not you agree with invisible children its the fact that hating on invisible children was wrong because by doing it you helped some one get away with war crimes

oh and it doesnt matter when you commit a crime, you committed a crime, ive heard of cases were people who committed a murder 20 years ago, never committed a crime since and got found guilty and punished, saying kony shouldnt be punished for their crimes because they were "in the past" is wrong

and even if you disagree with invisible children you shouldnt hate on it because all your doing by hating (like you are now) is destroying an organisation that is trying to bring an evil man to justice and the best thing for you to do would be to just be quiet about it, there is no reason to make an effort to destroy the organisation invisible children (which hating on them does do because they rely on popular support)

The thing is, they're not trying to "bring an evil man to justice" (that made me cringe), they're trying to scam people for free money by manipulating them to, instead of thinking logically, think only emotionally, not looking into it but instead getting overwhelmed.

You're obvious, living proof that they succeeded.

Rape has many psychological or emotional and physical effects.

Common consequences suffered by Rape victims are:
vaginal or anal bleeding or infection
fibroids
decreased sexual desire
genital irritation
pain during intercourse
chronic pelvic pain
urinary infections
pregnancy

The thing is, that doesn't "prove" that it's wrong. What if the person raped is a rapist himself? Some people will say that's just justice, others will say it's still wrong. Morals are always, no matter what you try to say, subjective in the end.
This is not to say that I think rape is right, however many would say that the person raped "deserved it" or something of the sort.

 

[Darth_Dude]

Notice how you both avoided the question? When someone says that something isn't inherently wrong, they are NOT saying it is right, they are saying that morality shouldn't factor in to objectivity. And the "Why? Because I said so" argument has no value because it is so vague as to be applied to anything and ruin your own argument, Hitler why is genocide OK? Because I said so. Not to sound like a git but if someone can give me a logical, rational argument why something is completely inherently bad without relying on arbitrary believe systems I will completely change my world view and give £100 to child's play.

Okay......

I'll try and prove that Rape is wrong.

Rape has many psychological or emotional and physical effects.

Common consequences suffered by Rape victims are:
vaginal or anal bleeding or infection
fibroids
decreased sexual desire
genital irritation
pain during intercourse
chronic pelvic pain
urinary infections
pregnancy

Not to mention the STD's, and the shame associated with it.

How about the Physical effects such as bruises and cuts.

I don't think anyone should have to suffer that, all those effects clearly prove it's wrong, and detrimental to one's physical and mental wellbeing.