Why I don't agree with calculators replacing long-hand

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Its pretty simple. There are times I've gone to a store or restaurant and the cashier has an issue ringing up something or taking off a coupon. They spend 20 minutes or more trying to figure out how to subtract the coupon amount from the non-taxed total because:

A. They don't have a calculator handy
B. They don't know how to do subtraction or percentages

This is just stupid and I blame schools for allowing kids to use calculators in place of learning math on their own. Its not a guarantee you will have a calculator when you really need one and knowing simple math is extremely handy. Sure there are folk who just aren't good at numbers, and need calculators but still I don't think they should be working in a position where they potentially need to use math without assistance.

Do you agree or disagree and why

 

[DefunctTheory]

What schools allow the use of calculators? Admittedly, I've been out of school for a while, but the only time we were allowed to use them was when we were doing tangents and that other stuff. And the week where we were taught to use calculators in middle school.

 

[Elfgore]

Well I'm about the most calculator dependent person in to world so I have to disagree. My reasoning would be the point of advancing technology is to ease the burden on humans, which calculators do. I will honestly say I can't do percentages in my head. But I see no problem in that as that is what calculators are for. But like I said I'm heavily biased and have no mental math skills at all.

I'm more shocked that the cash register doesn't calculate that for them. My work we just ring up the coupon and it takes care of it for us. I don't even have to calculate change.

 

[w9496]

I agree with you OP. I think calculators are making kids more dumb at a steady rate by not challenging their brain to come up with a solution.

Urdnot Wrex from ME1 sums up my feelings. "Anything that isn't constantly tested grows weak". When we give people machines that do the test for them, their minds grow weaker.

 

[Jamieson 90]

Schools don't let kids get away with using calculators; there is a non calculator paper. It's just that schools are failing to teach kids to do mathematics to an adequate level.

 

[omega 616]

When it comes to numbers, my mind treats them like beautiful women.... It just panics and shuts down, it turns into this mumbling, stuttering mess.

I can do easy percentages and very basic math but anything beyond that, you might as well ask a budgie.

The other day I had to do an assessment, one math and one English. I struggled with math in school, I had a loose grasp on things like working out the area of a room... 8 years later, sat in that maths assessment I had no fucking clue! I was just randomly adding numbers and then it would ask for something else so I multiplied them together. 3/4 through my mind just gave up, I sat giggling in a "I'm so fucked" kind of way, questions like "what's 2/3 of 36" was just getting answered with the first number that came to mind (which was 21, wasn't far off though!) ... Another question was 459 X 15 and at this point all hope was lost, I just put 5000... Which is just laughable!

Basically, we have all this stuff to make our lives easier but we shouldn't use calculators? I'd be fucked without them. Yeah, a person who is good at math could beat me on my calculator but I'd rather take a little longer, than get it wrong.

 

[Muspelheim]

I'm a mathematically inept subhuman (Boo! Hiss!), but if I were in that situation, I'd come up with some way to not inconvenience the customer. Since providing a fast service is part of my job.

I'd draw up a little cheat sheet or something, and keep it handy. It can't be impossible to make one at home.

 

[kurokotetsu]

I don't blame schools. Calculators are mighty handy and with most celphones having one integrated, well, it is easy to see why people don't do math in the head. We should still be able to do it though. What we should give people is the "dirty" trick to solve problems. LIke that 459*15 that is up there, instead of doing the hassel that is the whole opperation, add a zero to the second number to have 4590, then divide by two (which is easy to do) to get 2295 and add these two numbers to get 6885, which I thinik it is the right answer in less than a minute (checked it, it is right). A trick, multiplyin by 15 is the same as multiplying by 5 and 10 and adding the result, so we do the ten (which is trivial, just add a zero to the number) and with that the product times five is very easy as it is half of the given number, so you can get both factors with easy calculations and just add them. We don't need to only make them do it the long way, that way is obsolete now, it is important to show the tricks to doing that in their heads quickly, especially to give people the notion of around what number should the answer be, a better numerical sense. Percetnages are easy with tricks aside from the standard wat. We don't need to drill long hand, that isn't feasible nowdays, we need to show good tricks to poeple so they can do it faster without reaching for a calculator.

 

[jesse220]

I agree to a certain extent. People should be able to do basic math without the assistance of technology, but only basic math. The service industry is fast approaching the point where the cashiers don't need to any math at all, most stores have registers that do it for them. That being said if you do need a calculator you should at least know how to use it, I recently had a cashier restart a very long addition on a calculator because she put 5.0 instead of 5.00, that's just ridiculous.

 

[krazykidd]

I don't blame schools. Calculators are mighty handy and with most celphones having one integrated, well, it is easy to see why people don't do math in the head. We should still be able to do it though. What we should give people is the "dirty" trick to solve problems. LIke that 459*15 that is up there, instead of doing the hassel that is the whole opperation, add a zero to the second number to have 4590, then divide by two (which is easy to do) to get 2295 and add these two numbers to get 6885, which I thinik it is the right answer in less than a minute (checked it, it is right). A trick, multiplyin by 15 is the same as multiplying by 5 and 10 and adding the result, so we do the ten (which is trivial, just add a zero to the number) and with that the product times five is very easy as it is half of the given number, so you can get both factors with easy calculations and just add them. We don't need to only make them do it the long way, that way is obsolete now, it is important to show the tricks to doing that in their heads quickly, especially to give people the notion of around what number should the answer be, a better numerical sense. Percetnages are easy with tricks aside from the standard wat. We don't need to drill long hand, that isn't feasible nowdays, we need to show good tricks to poeple so they can do it faster without reaching for a calculator.

I was going to write this.

OT: i don't blame school. I blame people . For some reason , people hate math. And then don't put in any effort because they decide they aren't good at it. Math, in my opinion, is one of the easiest things to learn (in anything under university level). Because there is no debate on methods , if something works ,it works, end of story .

For sure some things are always easier to calculate that others ( like it's easier to find 25% of a number than say 13%) but once you know how to do it , you know how to do it .

 

[Moderated]

What store doesn't have a calculator on hand/a computer system that handles coupons?
Either way, that's retarded. If there is a cell phone, MP3 player, computer, or laptop anywhere near you, you have a calculator. I would find it hard to find a place without any of those when most people you meet will have a cell phone.

 

[Fractral]

I personally avoid using calculators except for things like trigonometry, where it's unavoidable, and very long sums like matrix multiplications, where doing it longhand is pointless and boring. I'm currently in my last year of sixth form, taking double maths and the further we go the less useful calculators become- they can't do symbolic calculus, they can't do matrix transformations (easily) and they can't do plane mappings- and it pains me to see the other people in my class reach for the calculator at the first sign of something as scary as a 2 digit multiplication. These are people who have aced the first year, yet get stumped by simple arithmetic.
That said, for somebody who is never going to use maths again, I don't see the point of making them do it longhand. It's slow, they may get it wrong and it's unlikely that anybody is going to be without a calculator very often, now that phones can do arithmetic for you.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Long hand is pretty much useless these days. There's no such thing as someone who doesn't have a calculator handy. Got a phone? Guess what, it has a calculator in it, and everyone has a cell-phone on them every waking moment of every day, whether we want to or not.

Why waste the time doing math by hand when you can just use a calculator? I mean, you can say "well maybe you won't always have a calculator" but then the counter argument is that you won't always have a pen and paper, nor the time to write out a problem either, and the amount of math that you can do strictly in your head is very limited. I mean sure, taking 20% of something is incredibly easy, but try taking 18% or 23% and suddenly your brain grinds to a halt because the numbers look weird and scary.

Besides which, would you really trust the guy at the cash register to properly do the math in his head without a calculator? I sure as hell wouldn't.

 

[Heronblade]

Uh, depends on the context

I will certainly agree that the widespread use of calculators for simple functions is a very bad idea. A person's mind along with writing tools should always be sufficient to replace a four function calculator. (and the writing tools should not be required for many problems, such as the coupon example in the OP) In addition, when dealing with longer problems, punching the calculator for even the easy steps slows you down.

However, there are plenty of problems out there for which it is not reasonable to avoid using tools to solve, and if more advanced tools are required, one might as well go for a convenient and accurate one rather than, for instance, a slide rule. Hell, for that matter, I deal with problems that cannot be solved in a reasonable time period using a top of the line graphics calculator, writing tools, and a scientific calculator to boot. It would take weeks to crunch through the numbers in question that way.

 

[chinangel]

I don't blame schools. Calculators are mighty handy and with most celphones having one integrated, well, it is easy to see why people don't do math in the head. We should still be able to do it though. What we should give people is the "dirty" trick to solve problems. LIke that 459*15 that is up there, instead of doing the hassel that is the whole opperation, add a zero to the second number to have 4590, then divide by two (which is easy to do) to get 2295 and add these two numbers to get 6885, which I thinik it is the right answer in less than a minute (checked it, it is right). A trick, multiplyin by 15 is the same as multiplying by 5 and 10 and adding the result, so we do the ten (which is trivial, just add a zero to the number) and with that the product times five is very easy as it is half of the given number, so you can get both factors with easy calculations and just add them. We don't need to only make them do it the long way, that way is obsolete now, it is important to show the tricks to doing that in their heads quickly, especially to give people the notion of around what number should the answer be, a better numerical sense. Percetnages are easy with tricks aside from the standard wat. We don't need to drill long hand, that isn't feasible nowdays, we need to show good tricks to poeple so they can do it faster without reaching for a calculator.

I was going to write this.

OT: i don't blame school. I blame people . For some reason , people hate math. And then don't put in any effort because they decide they aren't good at it. Math, in my opinion, is one of the easiest things to learn (in anything under university level). Because there is no debate on methods , if something works ,it works, end of story .

For sure some things are always easier to calculate that others ( like it's easier to find 25% of a number than say 13%) but once you know how to do it , you know how to do it .

Sure, to a point. Some people however have learning disabilities (myself: Tested and revealed to be exceptionally strong in english but unbelievably weak in math)

So I preffer a calculator. Percentiles and anything even remotely beyond the most simplistic and basic of math is well beyond me.

So yeah I sympathize with those who use calculators as crutches, 'cause god knows that math is a thing of the devil.

 

[NiPah]

You waited around 20 minutes for them to take off a coupon? Hell I'm not sure you should be complaining about others doing poor at math.

 

[Lieju]

Most of my school career, I had to use my head to calculate everything. Sure, we also needed to learn to use the calculator, but it was important we were able to do without. Thing is ... I suck at math, plain and simple. I'd go in to a panic frenzy if I were ever to math without a calculator. I'm in shock whenever I match correctly. Some people NEED calculators, even when they had to study intensely to do without.

I'm rather good at math, well, better than an average person, (but not as good as a lot of other people on my university courses) and I suck at doing calculations in my head on public places.

Actually, 'suck' might be underselling it. I get panic attacks, fainting ang throwing up might be involved.

(Long story, I got bullied through elementary and high school, I can do calculations just fine alone, but on a public place, especially with someone looking? NO.)

Anyway, if your job involves doing calculations a lot, carry a calculator. Even if you're good, you might get tired or confuse something.

Or do long-hand, although, considering everyone has a calculator on their phone these days, it will take just as long.

 

[Tiger King]

I wanna stick up for the 'worker monkey' here, having been in that position.
having a math problem thrown at you on the spot can be stressful, enough to mess up the simplist of things!

Long term however, we are relying on computers too much