Why I personally am upset with Ubisoft about AC: Unity

[Evil mr dave]

Snippity snap

While I think your raising a good point about the number of hansom white dudes that have been the protagonists of the AC games I take issue with it for two reasons:

1. This is there story. Ubisoft is making the game, they are writing the story, and if the story that they want to tell means that some Italian douche is the protagonist then that's all she wrote. Trying to shoehorn in changes after the fact would just be awkward and unnecessary and I would probably call them a bunch of of panderers. If when they decide to jump the Shark story forward to modern times and do the inevitable story about Hitler being a Templar and Churchill being the Assassins secret leader, then it would make sense to have a female protagonist. Or better yet they could actually make Stalin and the Communists the Templar's and have a story that revolves around an assassins controlled OSS/SOG during the Cold War although I think this is a discussion for another thread, more bitchin thread.

2. Good intentions balanced by wrong reasoning. I'm going to need an analogy for this. So in Winnipeg, Canada, there's this woman who wants to raise awareness about the health of lake Winnipeg by walking all around it (its about 25% bigger then Israel) because the lake has a spirit that needs defending. Now, making sure that our water is safe and pollution free is a huge deal, especially in Canada because we have such a huge amount of the worlds non-Glacial fresh water, but doing it to defend spirits is wrong when there are so many real reasons to defend it. You see, good intentions for the wrong reasons. In your case, you shouldn't be asking "why come we don't have any Female protagonists?" when you should be asking "Why come we don't have any Female Antagonists?". Seriously, there have been an embarrassing number of these games and a cursory examination of the AC wiki shows me that you only stab, like, five chicks in all of them. Combined.

 

[The_Darkness]

I also like playing as a female character. Heck, the new Tomb Raider was probably my favourite game of 2013 (for a variety of reasons, but a well done female protagonist was one of them). So you're not alone OP.

As for AC: Unity - Ubisoft has justified it by saying that it's the same drop-in multiplayer that Watch_Dogs employs - all players see themselves as the main character (Arno, I think his name is). This is done for the sake of immersion. The thing is... I'd prefer 3 new co-op characters to the "everyone is the same person" thing that they have going, even if it does break the immersion slightly when you transition from SP to MP. And if they went that route, they'd really have no excuse for one or two of those co-op characters being female.

So... yeah. I personally dislike a few of the decisions that Ubisoft has made about their multiplayer, with the resultant "no female characters" thing being one of them.

Then again, I'm probably not going to pick up AC:U anyway. I've yet to see anything about it that really grabs me.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

I also like playing as a female character. Heck, the new Tomb Raider was probably my favourite game of 2013 (for a variety of reasons, but a well done female protagonist was one of them). So you're not alone OP.

As for AC: Unity - Ubisoft has justified it by saying that it's the same drop-in multiplayer that Watch_Dogs employs - all players see themselves as the main character (Arno, I think his name is). This is done for the sake of immersion. The thing is... I'd prefer 3 new co-op characters to the "everyone is the same person" thing that they have going, even if it does break the immersion slightly when you transition from SP to MP. And if they went that route, they'd really have no excuse for one or two of those co-op characters being female.

So... yeah. I personally dislike a few of the decisions that Ubisoft has made about their multiplayer, with the resultant "no female characters" thing being one of them.

Then again, I'm probably not going to pick up AC:U anyway. I've yet to see anything about it that really grabs me.

Wouldn't the immersion be hurt by seeing 4 of the same person?

 

[The_Darkness]

I also like playing as a female character. Heck, the new Tomb Raider was probably my favourite game of 2013 (for a variety of reasons, but a well done female protagonist was one of them). So you're not alone OP.

As for AC: Unity - Ubisoft has justified it by saying that it's the same drop-in multiplayer that Watch_Dogs employs - all players see themselves as the main character (Arno, I think his name is). This is done for the sake of immersion. The thing is... I'd prefer 3 new co-op characters to the "everyone is the same person" thing that they have going, even if it does break the immersion slightly when you transition from SP to MP. And if they went that route, they'd really have no excuse for one or two of those co-op characters being female.

So... yeah. I personally dislike a few of the decisions that Ubisoft has made about their multiplayer, with the resultant "no female characters" thing being one of them.

Then again, I'm probably not going to pick up AC:U anyway. I've yet to see anything about it that really grabs me.

Wouldn't the immersion be hurt by seeing 4 of the same person?

They have slightly different coloured robes and facial hair as far as other players are concerned. But... well, to an extent, yeah. That's another reason I dislike it.

 

[Zhukov]

Huh?

Wouldn't that be like me getting upset with Bethesda because they keep making open world games, but I prefer more linear games with better pacing?

Damn it Bethesda, I'm a customer expressing a desire for a product and you're failing to provide!

Are you saying that the most vital core element of Ubisoft games is their specialization in male player-characters? That THAT is the one thing that makes Ubisoft, Ubisoft?

Something can be an aspect of a thing without being the defining aspect of the thing.

Apparently an aspect of AC:U is that it stars a white dude named Arno.

Actually expecting or demanding that to change at this late stage of development for no other reason than "I want it to" is, to my eyes, a bit silly.

Like I said in another post, saying that you'd like to see a chick at the helm of the next AC game, or the one after that depending on how their development cycles work, would be a much more reasonable and practical request.

 

[andago]

As for AC: Unity - Ubisoft has justified it by saying that it's the same drop-in multiplayer that Watch_Dogs employs - all players see themselves as the main character (Arno, I think his name is). This is done for the sake of immersion. The thing is... I'd prefer 3 new co-op characters to the "everyone is the same person" thing that they have going, even if it does break the immersion slightly when you transition from SP to MP. And if they went that route, they'd really have no excuse for one or two of those co-op characters being female.

To further this, the way Watch_Dogs works is that when you enter a multiplayer session, everyone sees themselves as the main charater Aiden, but everyone sees each other as generic NPCs (including female ones). Thus the rest of the assassins dropping in could be any generic assassins, as no matter which one you played you would always see yourself as Arno.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

P.S. No, I'm not being entitled for demanding something from a product I want. Ubisoft's making millions off us with this franchise, the least they could do is include multiple character options.

No, the least they could do is make a good game.
I think people just find it incredibly easy to hate on Ubisoft. What about every other studio that's making millions off their franchises? Who's badgering Nintendo for a gender-bender of Mario?

 

[Eddie the head]

Huh?

Wouldn't that be like me getting upset with Bethesda because they keep making open world games, but I prefer more linear games with better pacing?

Damn it Bethesda, I'm a customer expressing a desire for a product and you're failing to provide!

Are you saying that the most vital core element of Ubisoft games is their specialization in male player-characters? That THAT is the one thing that makes Ubisoft, Ubisoft?

Nope. So? It's still the game Ubisoft wanted to make. Whether it's a big aspect of the game or not isn't the issue. It's still an aspect of the game.

An aspect some would prefer changed. If you don't, that's fine. But what are you arguing is the harm in others wanting something different from yourself? If the developers don't act on this desire, nothing changes for you. If they do and they decide to change this game, isn't that then "the game Ubisoft want to make"?

This is one a Strawman. I'm not arguing it's bad for someone to want something different to me. Two a red herring. It's not addressing the point I made at all. And three I don't even play Assassins Creed I frankly don't care if there is a woman in it or not. My problem with the statement wasn't that it was against my point of view. My problem was that it was fallacious.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

P.S. No, I'm not being entitled for demanding something from a product I want. Ubisoft's making millions off us with this franchise, the least they could do is include multiple character options.

No, the least they could do is make a good game.
I think people just find it incredibly easy to hate on Ubisoft. What about every other studio that's making millions off their franchises? Who's badgering Nintendo for a gender-bender of Mario?

Nobody. Know why? Because Mario 2, literally the second game in the franchise, allowed you to play as Peach. Nintendo nipped it in the bud back in the 80s.

 

[DrOswald]

We've all seen the controversy surrounding Ubisoft, Assassin's Creed: Unity, and the lack of women. All this time, I've heard arguments from either side. "It's sexist!" "It's not sexist!" "We need more female protagonists!" "We've already got a lot of female protagonists!" All in all, everyone seems to agree that this has, at this point, been blown way out of proportion.

But in all the arguments, there's a reason I'm upset with the all-male ensemble of Unity, one that has not yet been touched on by most:

I like to play as a female character sometimes.

I find it fun to, occasionally, play as a woman in games, in the same way that I sometimes like to have hot sauce on my hamburgers. It's a matter of choice, is what I'm saying. And I do enjoy games better if they let me choose between male and female. Now, if I'm the only one who feels this way, I'll probably come across as a sexist or a pervert, who picks female characters for the sake of ogling them. But I'm willing to bet I'm not. I'm sure some people out there know what I'm talking about, and the others, at least, recognize it as a legitimate point.

Why does this matter? Because I am a consumer expressing desire for a product, and Ubisoft is failing to provide. They are declaring that they see no reason why anyone would ever want to play as a female character in this game. "No, they'd rather be another generic white guy," is their stance. Rule #1 of providing a product: the customer is always right. If people clearly want something in a game, you should give it to them, if only in service of your bottom line. Even if it's purely cosmetic, you still have a lot to gain. If half the Assassin's Creed community said they wanted sombreros, Ubisoft would have a DLC lined up within the month. And yet, they see no reason to shell out to add a woman as a protagonist.

And that's why I'm upset about having a cast of all males in Assassin's Creed: Unity. Because Ubisoft never even considered that I or anyone else would want to play as a woman. It's not just about gender politics. It's about giving people what they want.

P.S. No, I'm not being entitled for demanding something from a product I want. Ubisoft's making millions off us with this franchise, the least they could do is include multiple character options.

Ah, the old "they make basically infinity dollars" argument. This is the big flaw right here.

I know you don't think they make infinite dollars, but you are acting like you think that. The first problem is that they are making an amount of money so large that you cannot comprehend it and therefore you think they should be able to easily deliver on anything you might want. After all, in the face of making millions of dollars how much would it really cost them to make a female character? The second problem is that millions of dollars it isn't actually that much money for what they put into it. They make millions in profit but they spent a hundred million to get there.

Unless there is some huge explosion of popularity like Minecraft, game makers live and die in the margins. This is true all the way from AAA to indie. Making everyone happy never works, it costs too much. You have to shave off expenses when you can and make extra when you can so you can make your small% profit on investment. But you have to be smart about it.

I will be the first to recognize Ubisoft, along with most AAA developers, is bad at these cost/benefit decisions. Nickle and dime DLC, for example, is certainly not worth it based solely on the negative PR. However, the idea of a redundant female protagonist (which is what I am reading your post as, please correct if I am wrong) is just a bad idea. So much extra cost for so little benefit. And I am like you, I prefer female protagonists.

My recommendation? Voice your disappointment and stop buying Ubisoft games. I don't buy Ubisoft anymore, they suck at making games, why would I? But getting upset is silly.

Also, if you think that the customer is always right then you are so wrong it is almost funny. The customer is almost always wrong. The customer never, ever looks at your product from a cost/benefit perspective. Customers are typically stupid because it is not their job to be smart about this. It is not their job to take the requests of hundreds of thousands and figure out how to shape your product. They don't know what it takes to add a feature. They don't know anything about time crunch or the chain of command or limited resources or budget meetings or anything.

The number 1 rule of providing a product is that the customer doesn't know what they want and they certainly don't know what it is possible or practical to provide.

 

[DoubleU12]

We've all seen the controversy surrounding Ubisoft, Assassin's Creed: Unity, and the lack of women. All this time, I've heard arguments from either side. "It's sexist!" "It's not sexist!" "We need more female protagonists!" "We've already got a lot of female protagonists!" All in all, everyone seems to agree that this has, at this point, been blown way out of proportion.

But in all the arguments, there's a reason I'm upset with the all-male ensemble of Unity, one that has not yet been touched on by most:

I like to play as a female character sometimes.

I find it fun to, occasionally, play as a woman in games, in the same way that I sometimes like to have hot sauce on my hamburgers. It's a matter of choice, is what I'm saying. And I do enjoy games better if they let me choose between male and female. Now, if I'm the only one who feels this way, I'll probably come across as a sexist or a pervert, who picks female characters for the sake of ogling them. But I'm willing to bet I'm not. I'm sure some people out there know what I'm talking about, and the others, at least, recognize it as a legitimate point.

Why does this matter? Because I am a consumer expressing desire for a product, and Ubisoft is failing to provide. They are declaring that they see no reason why anyone would ever want to play as a female character in this game. "No, they'd rather be another generic white guy," is their stance. Rule #1 of providing a product: the customer is always right. If people clearly want something in a game, you should give it to them, if only in service of your bottom line. Even if it's purely cosmetic, you still have a lot to gain. If half the Assassin's Creed community said they wanted sombreros, Ubisoft would have a DLC lined up within the month. And yet, they see no reason to shell out to add a woman as a protagonist.

And that's why I'm upset about having a cast of all males in Assassin's Creed: Unity. Because Ubisoft never even considered that I or anyone else would want to play as a woman. It's not just about gender politics. It's about giving people what they want.

P.S. No, I'm not being entitled for demanding something from a product I want. Ubisoft's making millions off us with this franchise, the least they could do is include multiple character options.

^_^ Oh wow. Quite a deep opinion you have! hehe, I recently wrote a very long thread on the same topic hehe. It was my most posted thread I've made so far. Hehe.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

P.S. No, I'm not being entitled for demanding something from a product I want. Ubisoft's making millions off us with this franchise, the least they could do is include multiple character options.

No, the least they could do is make a good game.
I think people just find it incredibly easy to hate on Ubisoft. What about every other studio that's making millions off their franchises? Who's badgering Nintendo for a gender-bender of Mario?

Nobody. Know why? Because Mario 2, literally the second game in the franchise, allowed you to play as Peach. Nintendo nipped it in the bud back in the 80s.

You play as Aveline in Assassin's Creed III: Liberation. Does that count?

 

[Annihilist]

Look, this is not your story, and it should not be tailored to what you personally want. This is someone else's work, and they can put whatever bloody protagonist they like in it. That really should be the end of the discussion. You don't have the right to demand that the characters in other people's creative works of fiction conform to your personal taste.

 

[visiblenoise]

I think the only valid way to express your disapproval of Ubisoft because of what they did is by simply not buying the game. If you accuse them of being sexist, you're misplacing your accusations - they're just a symptom of the trend you dislike. If you accuse them of skimping...well, it's not like they falsely advertised playable female characters did they?

It's fine to complain if you're bored and just doing the usual dumb things people do on the internet for entertainment, but I really cannot believe that people are having serious discussions vilifying a plain old game company.

 

[Annihilist]

I also don't see anything wrong with people asking for a change now. I don't see what harm their voicing their opinion can do and I always support the market making its voice heard, wherever and whenever.

Fine, but there's no reason people's opinions should be taken seriously or considered.

Take any other creative medium - music, for example: what if people demanded of (say) Metallica that their latest album should have "more acoustic parts". Wouldn't we think them to be absurd? Or how about film: what if people demanded "more explosions" in a Darren Aronofsky film?

See, you have to pick and choose from what existing artists have provided to you, because that is what they personally wanted to make and share with the world. There are enough tastes catered for that there's almost certainly something for everyone. And if there is not, you have the option of entering the industry yourself and making your own. What you should not do is demand that a creator should change a major part of their art to cater for your specific tastes.

 

[Cecilo]

P.S. No, I'm not being entitled for demanding something from a product I want. Ubisoft's making millions off us with this franchise, the least they could do is include multiple character options.

No, the least they could do is make a good game.
I think people just find it incredibly easy to hate on Ubisoft. What about every other studio that's making millions off their franchises? Who's badgering Nintendo for a gender-bender of Mario?

Nobody. Know why? Because Mario 2, literally the second game in the franchise, allowed you to play as Peach. Nintendo nipped it in the bud back in the 80s.

You play as Aveline in Assassin's Creed III: Liberation. Does that count?

The argument I heard about that is that it doesn't count because it wasn't a main game.

 

[cikame]

Ubisoft had an entire game based on a female assassin so it's not like they are avoiding it.
Despite the crazy plots Assassin's Creed has always tried to depict real historical time periods, even going so far as to include real historical people. There are other realities they have depicted such as there not being female soldiers in the british/american armies of AC3, it's important to depict those truths in their vision of a real past. An optional truth they have depicted in most of the games is that groups of mercenaries for hire are always all men, why? Because there exist men who are strong, violent, greedy and will kill for coin, it's the truth, i'm going to assume at least 99% of real life killers for hire are men.

Back to Aveline in AC: Liberation, they didn't weaken her compared to male characters, she can climb and kill with the rest of them, instead they gave her new female abilities such as using a disguise and seducing men, seduction is a real life tactic of female killers to disarm an otherwise stronger male. Assuming all the characters in Unity play the exactly the same, the uniqueness of a female killer would be lost, it would literally be a skin change, it would be odd if a series based on a sense of reality, suddenly had women possessing the strength of men.

Don't think i'm against it by any means, in Brotherhood all my 'brothers' were sisters, my own personal Charlie's Angels to do my dirty work across the globe.

People chose to attack Unity for not having this option, i feel like the aggression is unwarranted.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

P.S. No, I'm not being entitled for demanding something from a product I want. Ubisoft's making millions off us with this franchise, the least they could do is include multiple character options.

No, the least they could do is make a good game.
I think people just find it incredibly easy to hate on Ubisoft. What about every other studio that's making millions off their franchises? Who's badgering Nintendo for a gender-bender of Mario?

Nobody. Know why? Because Mario 2, literally the second game in the franchise, allowed you to play as Peach. Nintendo nipped it in the bud back in the 80s.

You play as Aveline in Assassin's Creed III: Liberation. Does that count?

A single spinoff released for the Vita. If my point was that Ubisoft doesn't want to make female protagonists because of some deep-seeded misogyny, then you'd have me up against a wall. I've already got four different threads up about my actual opinions, so I'd assume you know where I actually stand.

And yes, it is easy to hate Ubisoft. Ask Jim Sterling why. Or Totalbiscuit. Or the Rayman Legends development team.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

P.S. No, I'm not being entitled for demanding something from a product I want. Ubisoft's making millions off us with this franchise, the least they could do is include multiple character options.

No, the least they could do is make a good game.
I think people just find it incredibly easy to hate on Ubisoft. What about every other studio that's making millions off their franchises? Who's badgering Nintendo for a gender-bender of Mario?

Nobody. Know why? Because Mario 2, literally the second game in the franchise, allowed you to play as Peach. Nintendo nipped it in the bud back in the 80s.

You play as Aveline in Assassin's Creed III: Liberation. Does that count?

A single spinoff released for the Vita. If my point was that Ubisoft doesn't want to make female protagonists because of some deep-seeded misogyny, then you'd have me up against a wall. I've already got four different threads up about my actual opinions, so I'd assume you know where I actually stand.

And yes, it is easy to hate Ubisoft. Ask Jim Sterling why. Or Totalbiscuit. Or the Rayman Legends development team.

I think they just assume male protagonists sale better rather than honestly think female protagonists suck. They did the awesome Beyond Good & Evil, for one thing, and Farah from Prince of Persia is another female character I'd quote anywhere.

 

[Shadowstar38]

A single spinoff released for the Vita.

So for a female character to count they have to be part of a main number series and on a particular platform?