Why illegalizing guns will not work in the U.S

geK0

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It's too late to fix it by simply taking the guns away; there's simply too many guns in the states. Although, if it were feasible to just magically erase all civilian and illegal guns (leaving only the police and military) I'd say "yes! do it for Christ's sake!".

But unfortunately that's not possible, and America is just left with one very large, virtually unsolvable gun crime problem.
 

Jacco

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MASTACHIEFPWN said:
You talk about removing guns from private owners like it'd be impossible- I present to you this. Give them insintive- Give them a chance to turn them in for money, any that don't have their's taken away by force, preferably by the Military. What are they going to do? Shoot the soldiers at their door who are armed to the teeth?
Use of the military against the civilian population is prohibited by the Constitution. Search and seizure without probable cause and a warrant is prohibited by the Constitution.

The military has better things to do than go door to door collecting people's guns and searching and seizing them where applicable. Just because you disagree with people owning guns doesn't automatically make it a bad thing.
 

Mazza35

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Woodman said:
Mazza35 said:
If you look at the facts, not just the FIREARM related crimes, but crimes in general, they sky rocket when you severely reduce guns in the hands of good people, with good intentions. I mean, I live in Australia, gun laws here are tough, best you'll get in a bolt action hunting rifle (But the baddies have semi auto shottys, pistol and other fun stuff) but we used to have carry openly and concealing licenses. But, they took our guns away, in average, crime shot up (Pun) (Murder, armed robberys, breaking and entering ect.) went up around 30-40% (My god, contradicts every argument about less guns = less crime)

In short, don't throw guns at everyone, give them to not crazy people, basic training. Let people carry in public (Not everyone will, it's not the fucking wild west) and it will DETER people from committing crimes, it wont stop them. But they will drop, and people will have a way of defending themselves against people WHO WILL HAVE GUNS NO MATTER WHAT.

P.S Serbia's 'firearm related death' rate is 3.90 (tiny) and guess what? They have fuckloads of guns, AKs, you name it. Basically every family has at least ONE longarm or pistol.'

THATS my argument.
[a href=http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html]Your argument is invalid.[/a]

WolfThomas said:
Why must you deal with absolutes? Ban all the guns or have all the guns!

Australia's been mentioned (and incorrectly mind) we have pretty strict gun laws, but you can still get a gun for hunting and sports.

I'm an Australian gun owner. I've got a Catergory A+B license. That means I can own bolt/lever/pump action centrefire/rimfire rifles and singlebarrel/doublebarrel/lever action shotguns. I use those to hunt introduced pests on my land and state parks.

It was pretty easy to get too. Little bit of waiting that's all.
This is a reasonable and measured approach. We had a few guns that we turned in after the Port Arthur massacre, but others in my family have licenses for their shotguns, and some even compete professionally. All their kids are properly trained to use them, and none can get to them without their parent letting them. Because that what gun control is about, controlling who has them, and what they have, and how they are kept.

There are still murders in Australia, there is no denying that. But to suggest that death by firearms have gone up, or even homicide has gone up, is simply not true.
I'm sorry but giving me a link to one statistic...how does disproof my argument? I'm not just talking about murder and homicide (Which % wise would decrease to a growing population) I'm talking about all kinds of crimes and statistics.

And if that part of my argument is invalid, so be it. My other points still stand strong, and I did skim over Aussie laws a wee bit, A+B long arms, as mentioned above. But now thinking of it, it would be so easy to go on a 'massacre' with a lever action .22....Maybe should say that :S
 

Jacco

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Rigs83 said:
MASTACHIEFPWN said:
You talk about removing guns from private owners like it'd be impossible- I present to you this. Give them insintive- Give them a chance to turn them in for money, any that don't have their's taken away by force, preferably by the Military. What are they going to do? Shoot the soldiers at their door who are armed to the teeth?
Actually the whole Revolution kind of started in Lexington, MA when a bunch of British soldiers showed to take away the colonists guns so yeah you do shoot the soldier who shows up at your door. If the American soldier was so superior why is Vietnam not the 51st state?
Have fun dying in a hail of lead and glory.

And the kill ratios in Vietnam were so slanted toward the US it wasn't even funny. It came down to a simple wait game and the Vietnamese had more patience.
 

Rigs83

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There are roughly 300 million pistols, rifles and shotguns in the US, enough for every single resident. There is also nearly 7 billion rounds of ammunition for either a pistol, rifle and or shotgun, enough for every single human being on this planet. You cannot ban guns in America because the cost is insurmountable. The best approach is cultural. Treat gun ownership like cigarette smoking. Make it publicly frowned upon and legally difficult and financially expensive and over time the numbers will decrease. I doubt you can ever completely end gun violence but you can curtail it through education and various programs to aid the mentally unstable.
 

Nouw

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Ulixes Dimon said:
IF not... remember the prohibition, this would be exactly like that, except with even more shooting people and less parties.
That's really quotable, just wanted to tell you that :p. Perhaps guns aren't quite on par with alcohol but I can definitely see where you're coming from.
 

Not Matt

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guns are built to kill. No need for another argument, "I have the right to owns gun" doesn't mean ANYTHING compared to the well-being of peoples lives.
 

CpT_x_Killsteal

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Jun 21, 2012
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Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun
 

Friendly Lich

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CpT_x_Killsteal said:
Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun
Ok, *snaps fingers* done do you want me to end world hunger while I'am at it?
 

CpT_x_Killsteal

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Friendly Lich said:
CpT_x_Killsteal said:
Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun
Ok, *snaps fingers* done do you want me to end world hunger while I'am at it?
Why yes. Also, while you're at it, Increase taxes on the rich and create a Universal Karma System that affects all human beings.

Thankyou for your help :)
 

Rigs83

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Jacco said:
Rigs83 said:
MASTACHIEFPWN said:
You talk about removing guns from private owners like it'd be impossible- I present to you this. Give them insintive- Give them a chance to turn them in for money, any that don't have their's taken away by force, preferably by the Military. What are they going to do? Shoot the soldiers at their door who are armed to the teeth?
Actually the whole Revolution kind of started in Lexington, MA when a bunch of British soldiers showed to take away the colonists guns so yeah you do shoot the soldier who shows up at your door. If the American soldier was so superior why is Vietnam not the 51st state?
Have fun dying in a hail of lead and glory.

And the kill ratios in Vietnam were so slanted toward the US it wasn't even funny. It came down to a simple wait game and the Vietnamese had more patience.
Tactics wins battles but logistics wins wars. The British had the greatest navy and army two hundred years ago and they won nearly every battle but ultimately lost because the logistics of maintaining control over the colonies strained them too much so the whole revolution cost the British more than it was worth. The same scenario repeated in Vietnam with the US taking the position of the British. If your opponent has nothing to lose but everything to gain the kill ratio does not matter to quote
"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."
Winston Churchill
That kind of fanaticism to something can't be shot and only a fool would plunge their country into civil war to make it more "safe".
 

Rigs83

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CpT_x_Killsteal said:
Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun
Yes because Americans would never illegally modify a gun.
 

wulfy42

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Um, how about you just make it illegal to SELL guns?

Nowhere in the constitution does it say you have the right to sell guns, just to own them heh.

So make it illegal to sell guns without going through a long process (background check on the person wanting to buy the gun for one).

No worries about having to raid houses to find guns etc, all you got to do is shut down all the gun shows. Yes, there will still be tons of guns in America for a long time, but offer buy back policies for guns, confiscate all guns used in crimes etc and you'll whittle down the problem quickly.

You can own a gun just fine, but the trasnport of guns into america would be illegal, the selling of guns in America without following a very stringent set of rules would be illegal and any guns used in a crime of any sort would be confiscated.

Would that solve all the problems? Nope, but it would be a good start.
 

invadergir

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Conservatives have painted the gun-control movement as storm troopers who want to take away all the guns.

They refuse to have an honest debate about the subject.
 

CpT_x_Killsteal

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Rigs83 said:
CpT_x_Killsteal said:
Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun
Yes because Americans would never illegally modify a gun.
Then set a maximum clip size for handguns too, aswell as full-auto modifications.
 

AldUK

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Magenera said:
The US doesn't care anymore. Has long stop caring, within a week this would be a memory, that anyone can barely remember, as they continue with their lives. The pro-gun movement would have gain more allies, and the gun control groups shall once again be at a lost. I keep telling people this, but seems like the Gun control group can't get it through their thick skulls. Your issue is dead in America, they are moving pro-gun. Their is nothing you can do, it is part of culture right now. The sooner you get that, the sooner you can move on to bigger and better things, like the fiscal cliff that no one seems to want to solve.
I've noticed that every single one of your posts in regarding this topic are basically the same. "There's no point arguing about it, there's nothing we can do, it's just the way it is." Well news flash buddy, not everyone is willing to accept mass murder as daily life. Some of us get downright pissed off at little kids being shot and wish the government and society had the decency to stand up and say; "enough is enough."

If you have nothing to bring to this debate except, "there is no debate." Then why are you even posting?
 

Rigs83

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Matt S Hoimyr said:
guns are built to kill. No need for another argument, "I have the right to owns gun" doesn't mean ANYTHING compared to the well-being of peoples lives.
Right now the biggest killer in Americas is overdose from pharmaceuticals [http://lifeabundantly-alim.blogspot.com/2012/06/fda-admits-100000-prescription-drug.html]. America has put profit over the peoples' well being for centuries, slavery anyone, and as we speak Big Pharma [http://thephoenix.com/Boston/news/145950-prescription-opioids-have-wreaked-havoc-on-the-bay/] trying to make us all addicts and killing 100,000 a year to do it, and Matt they want the children.
 

Gnoekeos

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thebobmaster said:
I'll have to repeat myself from your other topic, because my point still stands.

Ban all guns! Ignore the fact that there are literally millions, if not billions, of guns in the U.S., a good deal of which are in the hands of private owners! The U.K. did it! Never mind the fact that the U.K. has about a quarter of the population and 2 percent of the area. If one country can do it, every country can!
Ignore the fact that there are literally millions if not billions of guns in the us? You see that's kind of the point, the vast majority of those guns have angry gun nut hands to hold them. How do you propose to get the people who believe its their god given right to own all the overpowered weapons they want to give up their guns?
 

Rigs83

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CpT_x_Killsteal said:
Rigs83 said:
CpT_x_Killsteal said:
Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun
Yes because Americans would never illegally modify a gun.
Then set a maximum clip size for handguns too, aswell as full-auto modifications.
The whole point is that that video shows an illegal mod already. You can't have that drum mod in almost any state north of the Mason-Dixon line but he or someone he knew did it anyway. Illegal mods to guns are decades old, some whackos melt down quarters to make steel bullets that go through armor, laws are only as good as there enforcement and cops are getting there budgets slashed everywhere. If you want to stop gun violence banning guns don't work but making gun use like smoking may. What I mean is that you use culture to help solve the problem. Decades ago everyone smokes and now almost no one does and those that do are almost pariahs and the revenues from taxing cigarettes helps pay for the negative ads attacking smoking. Do that and you help get rid of guns not through law but through cultural shifts to something else like ninja stars. Yeah make ninja stars the new guns.