Why illegalizing guns will not work in the U.S

[J Tyran]

The guns in America are not only to blame, its the whole firearm worshiping culture. You can clearly see it in this very same thread, Americans see the gun as a tool of empowerment. They see it as giving them power over their government, power over criminals and a way of dealing with problems.

This attitude + the ease of obtaining powerful weapons is what is so caustic, not the guns themselves. Other nations around the world have as many guns floating around but the attitude to them is what makes all the difference. When someone is brought up steeped in the belief that owning and using a gun gives you power inevitably people will twist that belief and use it to empower themselves in horrendous ways.

 

[Raytan941]

Gun Control - A victims perspective!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-oNMHNrS-8

This lady knows whats what.

 

[WolfThomas]

While it's true that Australia's gun laws are represented incorrectly sometimes, it's not just a "little bit of waiting" for most people. You still need to have a valid reason to own a firearm, especially to keep one at home, and personal protection is not considered one. I'm assuming the land you own is in a rural area and your reason for keeping a gun on the property pest control, people who own houses in the suburbs can't just go to a gun shop and load up.

I'll admit I exaggerated. But anyone can get an "expressions of interest to hunt vermin on crown land" from the DSE, I paid 11 dollars for it, I think it's gone up a bit now. That pretty much allows you to get a CAT A+B regardless of your property. The guns purpose being for hunting pest animals wherever legal, state forests, farms with permission etc. That's where I do all my hunting, I live in the country but not on a big property. I'm talking from a Victorian perspective though, I think it's easier and harder in certain states.

I also didn't mention the couple of hundreds dollars for the license itself.

And I agree owning firearms for protection is unnecessary.

 

[kgpspyguy]

The rifle he used wasn't legal in Connecticut so it wouldn't have affected him much.

 

[jboking]

2 years mandatory military service. Those who have served keep a militia firearm after they leave. I guarantee you will see a drop in violent crime rates.

well, you could always have something like in Full Metal Jacket were a person goes insane and with access to firearms and combat training, they could be a very dangerous threat. Just because you've been in the service doesn't mean you won't be traumatized by what you experience

I was taking more of the Switzerland route. Everyone gets trained, is aware of how to use guns, how to store them safely, etc. However, imagine that the man comes back home and snaps. Everyone around him has gone through military grade defense training. How much damage do you think the snapped one will do before he is stopped? My wager is not much if there are other trained people around him.

 

[Ushiromiya Battler]

It goes like this. Take a man's gun, he'll just get a bow and arrow to kill you. Take away his bow, he will use a knife. Take away his knife, he use a fork. Take away his fork, he will use a spoon. Take away his spoon, he use his fists. Take away his fists, he kill you with his prosthetic claw hands.

You can't stop crazed people from killing. Whether or not a stricter gun control law is put into place, the situation stays the same.

No, but you can make it harder for them to get it, instead of taking it from your mom or buying it at a random store. That alone would stop a lot of on the whim shooters which most of them seem to be.
Take Norway, we almost have no shootings, then came Breivik and used around a 1 year to make bombs and get a gun.
Our police force failed, so now we're fixing it up. We take the problem, fix it and then if it makes it better, we take the next problem and then fix that one..etc.etc...

Point is, making it harder for people to get guns equals less on the whim killings.

Oh and btw, I'm not saying ban guns... In case that wasn't evident from how my comment was phrased.

 

[Strazdas]

How can legislation that didn't exist fail? I Never said that at all... I said the existing legislation at that time failed. As a result of the shooting new legislation was introduced and the existing laws where better enforced. Its really quite simple, a bit like you so let me break it down with some bullet points.

-Existing legislation failed
-Gunman murders kids
-New legislation and better enforcement of existing legislation introduced

Now is there anything else I can clear up for you?

hmmm i guess i completely misunderstood your original post then. thanks for clearing that up.

2 years mandatory military service. Those who have served keep a militia firearm after they leave. I guarantee you will see a drop in violent crime rates.

they had soemthing like that (mandatory military service) in my country till they removed it 5 years ago. trust me, those who return the only change is that they get beefed up physically. and maybe more inclined to solve problems with fists than words.

 

[Angie7F]

I just came back to post on this topic because I have been thinking about this topic for a few days and realized that if I were told to go and live in the U.S., I probably would go and buy a gun to protect myself because I do not trust that my living environment would be safe.

I am female, i am asian, I am small, and if I were to be assaulted i would have to rely on a force more powerful than my fists or muscle power, and that would be guns.
As long as I am a minority, I would feel I need to protect myself.

Living in japan where people are pretty much homogeneous and polite makes it easier for me to hudge the lack of gun control in the U.S., but that would be being unfair to them.

So, I do not blame the Americans for saying that right now, they feel that they have a right to own guns to protect themselves.
At the same time, I think that the country needs to do something to make their country a safer place so that they dont have to rely on guns.

 

[Henkie36]

snip

Except for that one time.

By the way, you might not realize this, but Europeans have really pulled out their own teeth. At this point, you only have as much power as your governments say you have. They do something you don't like? Sure, you can protest, but what are you going to do if the government goes ahead and decides to keep doing it anyways? Protest more? In the end, you hold no real power. Your governments have to reason to fear you as a group.

How exactly does this relate to ''Guns are out of control in the US''? Sure, my govern does stuff that I wouldn't do, but I'm sure that you don't agree with every thing yours does. And sonce you say that because we have strict guncontrol and you don't, you would turn your guns on the government if they make laws you don't like?

 

[Tono Makt]

making guns completely illegal is not an option anymore.

If this is true, then mass shootings will keep happening.

The US has made their bed. Now they have to lie in it.

pretty much, no one can really admit that were kinda fucked in this regard unless the US somehow changes one of the most integral aspects of our cultural heritage.

There's a sad sort of irony that a Gaming website which also deals with movies and other aspects of geek culture is sort of ignoring this fact. Games and movies are two of the most powerful and potent ways that America strengthens its "Culture of the Gun", and I can't honestly think of a single game where you need to find a "permit" to have a firearm in your characters inventory.

As a gaming site... maybe we could advocate for games which promote slightly more responsible gun ownership and gun usage? Get the idea of "Guns are a major responsibility - use them wisely." into the heads of people from a young age, rather than "Grab a gun. Kill a bad guy. Profit!" being the... well, maybe the only mode for guns in games?

 

[Grandrogue]

making guns completely illegal is not an option anymore.

If this is true, then mass shootings will keep happening.

The US has made their bed. Now they have to lie in it.

pretty much, no one can really admit that were kinda fucked in this regard unless the US somehow changes one of the most integral aspects of our cultural heritage.

There's a sad sort of irony that a Gaming website which also deals with movies and other aspects of geek culture is sort of ignoring this fact. Games and movies are two of the most powerful and potent ways that America strengthens its "Culture of the Gun", and I can't honestly think of a single game where you need to find a "permit" to have a firearm in your characters inventory.

As a gaming site... maybe we could advocate for games which promote slightly more responsible gun ownership and gun usage? Get the idea of "Guns are a major responsibility - use them wisely." into the heads of people from a young age, rather than "Grab a gun. Kill a bad guy. Profit!" being the... well, maybe the only mode for guns in games?

Scientists are shocked by canada's ability to have movies and violent video games yet not kill eachother.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXCjxa29odc

Video games don't make people commit crimes. If a child decides to kill a bunch of people because of a video game, then he already had a problem that would have been set off by a movie, book, or something else. Also, remember the Holy Wars? What video game did they play?

 

[jboking]

2 years mandatory military service. Those who have served keep a militia firearm after they leave. I guarantee you will see a drop in violent crime rates.

they had soemthing like that (mandatory military service) in my country till they removed it 5 years ago. trust me, those who return the only change is that they get beefed up physically. and maybe more inclined to solve problems with fists than words.

Not to dismiss you, but this solution comes from Switzerland. One of the only EU countries with similar gun laws (aka, loose laws), yet the one major difference is everyone is required to serve in the military. Switzerland has ridiculously low gun crime and they attribute that to receiving proper training on gun use, defense, and storage. While your personal experience may say it is a bad idea, empirical examples say otherwise.

May I ask what country you are from?

 

[Starke]

I'll have to repeat myself from your other topic, because my point still stands.

Ban all guns! Ignore the fact that there are literally millions, if not billions, of guns in the U.S., a good deal of which are in the hands of private owners! The U.K. did it! Never mind the fact that the U.K. has about a quarter of the population and 2 percent of the area. If one country can do it, every country can!

Couldn't happen. Come out as Anti-gun during a campaign and expect to get buried by the NRA funding the other guy. Introduce a bill in the legislature, and not only will your own party crucify you for it because they don't want the NRA to leave them to burn, but the NRA will still burn you come reelection.

So... who's going to stand up and say "ban them"? Oh, right, and in a lot of places if you did come out on the record saying "ban guns" you wouldn't get reelected, because, oh, look, the people voting for you like guns. This is even before Lobbyists got involved.

So, yeah, that's a nice fantasy you've created for yourself, but so long as companies are building guns in America, so long as Americans exist that like guns, and so long as Americans who like guns continue to buy the NRA newsletter, you can't get rid of them. Economically, and politically it's a dead start.

 

[Strazdas]

2 years mandatory military service. Those who have served keep a militia firearm after they leave. I guarantee you will see a drop in violent crime rates.

they had soemthing like that (mandatory military service) in my country till they removed it 5 years ago. trust me, those who return the only change is that they get beefed up physically. and maybe more inclined to solve problems with fists than words.

Not to dismiss you, but this solution comes from Switzerland. One of the only EU countries with similar gun laws (aka, loose laws), yet the one major difference is everyone is required to serve in the military. Switzerland has ridiculously low gun crime and they attribute that to receiving proper training on gun use, defense, and storage. While your personal experience may say it is a bad idea, empirical examples say otherwise.

May I ask what country you are from?

The country is lithuania. But there are mroe factors why Switzerland is different from USA other than mandatory military service.

Also it appears someone has gone angry and is reporting my posts. oh well when does those green warning ticks go away, if ever?

 

[Vegosiux]

2 years mandatory military service. Those who have served keep a militia firearm after they leave. I guarantee you will see a drop in violent crime rates.

they had soemthing like that (mandatory military service) in my country till they removed it 5 years ago. trust me, those who return the only change is that they get beefed up physically. and maybe more inclined to solve problems with fists than words.

Not to dismiss you, but this solution comes from Switzerland. One of the only EU countries with similar gun laws (aka, loose laws), yet the one major difference is everyone is required to serve in the military. Switzerland has ridiculously low gun crime and they attribute that to receiving proper training on gun use, defense, and storage. While your personal experience may say it is a bad idea, empirical examples say otherwise.

May I ask what country you are from?

Nitpicking.

Switzerland is not a member of the EU. Please, people, differentiate between Europe the continent and European Union.

 

[DRTJR]

Probably in the thread multiple times, but why not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOROvO2fxTc

 

[jboking]

Nitpicking.

Switzerland is not a member of the EU. Please, people, differentiate between Europe the continent and European Union.

My bad. I really should remember all of the European countries. After all, they are all significant and important. Let me go back to my recitations to remember things that don't honestly concern me. Slovenia's capital is Ljubljana, it's currency is the Euro,...etc

The country is lithuania. But there are mroe factors why Switzerland is different from USA other than mandatory military service.

Also it appears someone has gone angry and is reporting my posts. oh well when does those green warning ticks go away, if ever?

As someone who has lived in North America and Europe, they aren't as different as you'd assume. Of course, you haven't provided solid reason behind why manditory military service wouldn't work, so I'll consider that conceding the point.

Also, those warning ticks do not go away for a long, long time. Sorry to hear you got reported, likely for stupid reasons, my friend.

 

[Vegosiux]

Nitpicking.

Switzerland is not a member of the EU. Please, people, differentiate between Europe the continent and European Union.

My bad. I really should remember all of the European countries. After all, they are all significant and important. Let me go back to my recitations to remember things that don't honestly concern me. Slovenia's capital is Ljubljana, it's currency is the Euro,...etc

What you should do is get informed on whatever the hell you're talking about so at least you got your facts straight. Whether it concerns you personally or not.

I will ignore the thinly veiled insult in your post, but just this once.

 

[jboking]

What you should do is get informed on whatever the hell you're talking about so at least you got your facts straight. Whether it concerns you personally or not.

I will ignore the thinly veiled insult in your post, but just this once.

My jokes clearly don't work for you. Fair enough. Then I'll say that the important thing that was pertinent to the topic was Switzerland's gun laws and military programs, not whether they are in the EU. Your added, completely unnecessary, correction was a side note to the issue. It's like saying you need to know the United States major trade partners in order to have an opinion on their gay marriage laws. Sorry I'm not as worldy about issues that I have no concern for and are not on topic.

And I'll ignore your overt insult in your first sentence, but just this once. Just this one time, not ever again. (or, you know, I could behave like a grown adult and realize I am reading too far into your comment and not make pseudo-threats)

 

[jboking]

That happened to me as well, someone went back and reported me for something I said back in like december of LAST YEAR and a mod decided to smack a warning on me

Damn, that's crazy. That is the nature of an internet forum, though. Remember, this is a land where mods rule and they are a little quick on the banhammer. I blame march mayhem for the mod's trigger finger, because reasons.