Why is armor so freaking ornate in fantasy?

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jimmy_curbstomp

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I think there's a big difference between "realistic" and "functional." My brother is an amateur armorer, and while he makes many fantasy pieces that have no grounding history, they are all functional. He has to be able to wear them.

A lot of developers create such gigantic ornate misshapen suits that the parts clip through each other. I've always hated the giant shoulder spikes for this reason.

There is no enchantment that allows seven inch spikes to clip through your head every time you raise your arm.

I got no problem with whatever ornate insane-o armor a developer creates. I just want them to remember that a person has to able to fit inside of it and move around.

Trust me, when you're bicycle jousting, you don't want to fall on that stuff.
 

Clive Howlitzer

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I like to find that mix between mundane and fantasy for armors. I don't think it hurts to have something in the middle ground. After all, I don't want to look like some jackass wandering around a medieval fair or something.
Also, this is why you should bring back the medium armor! I like the perks of light armor, but I also don't like being stuck always wearing leather. I do love my dragonscale armor in Skyrim though.
 

DustyDrB

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I like most of Dragon Age's (both games) armor. The Templar armor is just sexy. But I do agree that most fantasy armor is overdesigned.
 

Yokai

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TheBelgianGuy said:
[img src="http://images.wikia.com/witcher/images/2/22/Tw2_journal_Stennis.png"/]


I always thought King Stennis' armour, and that of some other higher-ups in the Witcher 2's society, had such a great-looking but still believable plate armour! (Too bad the guy's an asshole.)
Yes! The Witcher 2 had brilliant examples of detailed and ornate but still functional armor. The art direction in that game was just all-around really, really good.

And I certainly agree with the OP for the most part, although I think Skyrim's a pretty minor offender. Even the higher-level armors almost never fall prey to the Pauldrons of Doom and inexplicable spiky bits that aren't attached to anything. Also, the fact that majority of the armor is muted in terms of design (take the steel plate, it's just grey-green metal with some very basic engraving on it) it actually makes the fancier stuff like glass and dragon armor unique and impressive, rather than just another set of inexplicably overwrought armor amongst dozens.

I always prefer to deck my character out in armor that looks functional and strong, as opposed to decorative and colorful. One of the great things about Skyrim is that if you like the look of a certain set of armor (Leather in my case), you can upgrade it to the point where it's still perfectly serviceable in the endgame. I love that.
 

Bad Jim

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RandV80 said:
Yeah I wouldn't really complain about fantasy armour being overly ornate when even standard armour isn't used realistically. Real full platemail knight vs knight sword combat would be a slow tedious affair where they bang their swords off each other until they collapse from exhaustion. Either you find a small vulnerable part in the armour, or your sword will just bounce right off it.
Or they could ditch swords and bash each other to death with maces. That hurts even if you're armoured. Or charge them on horseback.
 

TheMadDoctorsCat

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I will be the exception to this particular rule, because I'm contrary like that. I want my armour to have studs. I want my armour to have spikes. I want my armour to have little embroidered snakes running all around it. I want shoulder pads the size of small animals. I want MORE, MORE, MORE.

If you can tell what species of humanoid is inside the armour just from the shape of it, then dammit, it just ain't enough for me!
 

Jaime_Wolf

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I think the fact that better TES light armor looks heavy is fully intentional.

It's better than any conventional light armor could ever be. Functionally, it is heavy armor (it protects much better than conventional light armors), just made with exotic, lighter components. To me, this actually seems much more reasonable than all of the games that keep the better light armor looking very light: exactly how is it offering so much more protection?

In TES, better light armor is just heavy armor made with lighter materials. In other games, better light armor is light armor made with increasingly heavier materials. Somehow, the first makes more sense to me.
 

ATACpilot112

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I agree with the OP to an extent.
But what a lot of people are saying is that this is fantasy and that mitigates over-the-top armour. Honestly? It doesn't. It's like the difference between a functional, nice looking car and an SUV with monster truck tyres; one looks and IS functional, a pleasing aesthetic of its own, while the other is a hilariously over-compensatory abomination and an eyesore.
But other people are saying that realism will ruin their fantasy. I would like to point out that almost all fantasy is derived from myth and lore AND art of older cultures.

http://www.draconika.com/images/saint-george-dragon.jpg
http://russkiyimperatorskiydom.ru/picture/img/Janna.jpg

These suits of armor are worn by figures of myth and they look quite adequate as protection and ornate enough. The reason that realism (of a degree) is essential in any work is because once you have godly characters walking around wearing half a scrapyard, it becomes irrelevant; why should we care about an unstoppable juggernaut? How are we supposed to relate? I know that in most RPGs the goal is to create an idealized version of ourselves, but really.

Take a look at Lord of the Rings. That had excellent armour and character design, and Aragorn hardly ever wears full armour and Gandalf is a goddamn wizard. That whole story was about the physically weakest of all (the hobbits) triumphing in the face of insurmountable odds with the most meager of resources.

But finally, many people say that practical armour looks boring because it isn't detailed or ornate enough. may I present to thee, the Lion Armour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJMBRq_RnPk


Post Script: Fighting between two knights was not long and boring as some people seem to think; all of a knights weapons were capable of defeating armour, even their daggers, because they were trained on how to use them properly. And they were not slow or unwieldy in their suits. They were taught all their lives about speed and agility in armour, which took the form of a sort of medieval parkour in full plate.
 

Stu35

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On a related note to this thread - I despise Glass armour in TES.

It doesn't look QUITE as hideous in Skyrim as it did in Oblivion and Morrowind, but it's still called GLASS armour.

I don't approve of Armour made of Glass (or, if you want be a knob and point out that it's made from Moonstone and Malachite, Armour calling itself 'Glass').

I can't be the only person who hates it? Can I?
 

The3rdEye

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erttheking said:
More or less because you're supposed to be some sort of god of war and victory as a main character in a video game.
I agree.

Higher levels of detail imply more elusive materials, which implies higher cost, which implies status. If you're a badass dragon slayer who strikes down nations with a swing of your sword, you COULD use half of the dining room table as a shield (or the whole thing if you specced strength), but that's not nearly as visually impressive as having a metal sculpted wolf's head on a field of gilded steel. Sure it's not practical, but it's intricacy implies that you did something worthy of that level of detail. But in the end it is a matter of personal taste. Siegfried in Soul Calibur 4 for example... that's pushing armor design off a cliff.

Stu35 said:
On a related note to this thread - I despise Glass armour in TES.

It doesn't look QUITE as hideous in Skyrim as it did in Oblivion and Morrowind, but it's still called GLASS armour.

I don't approve of Armour made of Glass (or, if you want be a knob and point out that it's made from Moonstone and Malachite, Armour calling itself 'Glass').

I can't be the only person who hates it? Can I?
I took greater issue with it being called glass armor before Skyrim explained what it was actually made of. But what are the alternatives? Emerald armor? Pass. Volcanic armor? Maaaaybe. Although for perspective, ebony is a type of wood, and that's one of the stronger heavy armors.
 

Dexiro

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Some ridiculous looking armour armour can kind of be justified. I mean you could argue that the spikes instill more fear in the enemy, and intricate decorations are a sign of wealth and quality. As for weight you can usually just say "magic" and be on your way.

With some games however the armour is just a competition for the designers to make the coolest looking robot.
 

ImperialSunlight

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On a semi-related note, I find it hilarious to wear Daedric armour in Skyrim since my character is supposed to be a "good guy" so it's hilarious when people thank him or act kind towards him. Also in the quest to save some tree, some guy is all surprised that I'm so violent. Seriously? You think a guy in this kind of armour would be nice?

But anyway, yeah, some of the light armour looks a bit too heavy in Skyrim, the heavy armour looks fine to me, though.
 

Onyx Oblivion

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You see your armor?

I'm in first person unless doing stealth...I never get to see it.

I'm more annoyed about the stupid looking spiky weapons.
 

Macgyvercas

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A Weakgeek said:
believer258 said:
We already have too much realism in our shooters. We do not need it in our fantasy RPG's!

Please, people, for the love of God, don't start this. I don't want boring realism in my fantasy. It's fucking fantasy, for cryin' out loud! It's supposed to be unrealistic and fun!

I do understand it if you think that armor in modern fantasy games is unsightly, though Skyrim is far from a bad offender of that. I think that a lot of Skyrim's armor is fairly awesome looking. The bland and boring ones are for the blander and more boring common armors, and they're supposed to get more decorative as you get better stuff.
But theres currently no games that cater to boring people like me! I want 1 fantasy game that doesen't make me want to play with the first few armors because the best ones look so ugly.

Macgyvercas said:
Not all great armor looks bad. My Paladin in DDO has a +5 adamantine suit of full plate that grants +5 to Fortitude saves, and forces the foe to make a balance check if I roll a natural 20 on my attack. You know what that armor looks like?


Rather sensible if I say so myself.
That does look good, I like the beard aswell.
I quite like that toon. He's pretty BA against pretty much everything, and totally anihilates undead.
 

ATACpilot112

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jimmy_curbstomp said:
I think there's a big difference between "realistic" and "functional." My brother is an amateur armorer, and while he makes many fantasy pieces that have no grounding history, they are all functional. He has to be able to wear them.

A lot of developers create such gigantic ornate misshapen suits that the parts clip through each other. I've always hated the giant shoulder spikes for this reason.

There is no enchantment that allows seven inch spikes to clip through your head every time you raise your arm.

I got no problem with whatever ornate insane-o armor a developer creates. I just want them to remember that a person has to able to fit inside of it and move around.

Trust me, when you're bicycle jousting, you don't want to fall on that stuff.
This. Go home everybody. This man has solved the issue, and take it into consideration when designing your character's armour.
 

Nouw

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Rule of Cool [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool] man. Or may I offer Rule of Sexy [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfSexy] instead? The cooler or sexier you are, the higher chance of winning!
A Weakgeek said:
Soviet Heavy said:
But then I couldn't have my warriors of chaos!
You know i dont actually have a problem with Warhammer because it has made a sport out of it. It has completely abandoned all seriousness, all physical restrictions and made the most ridiculous looking "armor" they could.
 

Terminate421

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I prefer armor that looks like it can hold its own while still retaining a badass look.

My suspension of disbelief drops when I see armor that looks impossible to even turns one head in.

Heres is how to do it:






Here is how NOT to do it:


I know these are Sci-fi but its something I must address.
 

predatorpulse7

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I'm going to parrot a lot of people here and say that they should copy the Witcher 2 model. Ornate yet realistic looking for the most part. A lot of armor tends to fall on the funny side with gazzilion spikes, pauldrons ten feet high and some cuirass that could only be put on if the wearer had 2-3 aids by at all sides.

This is pretty much perfect armor IMO:



Just look at the details. As I said, ornate enough to look cool but no unwieldy
 

KEM10

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A Weakgeek said:
KEM10 said:
There is one thing everyone forgets when it comes to this stuff. All the armor in the fantasy games are hand made and the better the armor, the less likely hood it is mass produced.

Look at the armor of the Orcs in Lord of the Rings. It is bland, generic, and put together. Well, they also had to fill a huge order ASAP. Mass produced.
Now, when a master blacksmith makes "legendary" armor, he will make it look as shinny and intricate as possible so everyone on the field will be impressed and look for him later (sort of a billboard). For example, look at the description of Achilles' shield in Iliad
First he shaped the shield so great and strong, adorning it all over and binding it round with a gleaming circuit in three layers; and the baldric was made of silver. He made the shield in five thicknesses, and with many a wonder did his cunning hand enrich it.

He wrought the earth, the heavens, and the sea; the moon also at her full and the untiring sun, with all the signs that glorify the face of heaven- the Pleiads, the Hyads, huge Orion, and the Bear, which men also call the Wain and which turns round ever in one place, facing. Orion, and alone never dips into the stream of Oceanus.

He wrought also two cities, fair to see and busy with the hum of men. In the one were weddings and wedding-feasts, and they were going about the city with brides whom they were escorting by torchlight from their chambers. Loud rose the cry of Hymen, and the youths danced to the music of flute and lyre, while the women stood each at her house door to see them.

Meanwhile the people were gathered in assembly, for there was a quarrel, and two men were wrangling about the blood-money for a man who had been killed, the one saying before the people that he had paid damages in full, and the other that he had not been paid. Each was trying to make his own case good, and the people took sides, each man backing the side that he had taken; but the heralds kept them back, and the elders sate on their seats of stone in a solemn circle, holding the staves which the heralds had put into their hands. Then they rose and each in his turn gave judgement, and there were two talents laid down, to be given to him whose judgement should be deemed the fairest.

About the other city there lay encamped two hosts in gleaming armour, and they were divided whether to sack it, or to spare it and accept the half of what it contained. But the men of the city would not yet consent, and armed themselves for a surprise; their wives and little children kept guard upon the walls, and with them were the men who were past fighting through age; but the others sallied forth with Mars and Pallas Minerva at their head- both of them wrought in gold and clad in golden raiment, great and fair with their armour as befitting gods, while they that followed were smaller. When they reached the place where they would lay their ambush, it was on a riverbed to which live stock of all kinds would come from far and near to water; here, then, they lay concealed, clad in full armour. Some way off them there were two scouts who were on the look-out for the coming of sheep or cattle, which presently came, followed by two shepherds who were playing on their pipes, and had not so much as a thought of danger. When those who were in ambush saw this, they cut off the flocks and herds and killed the shepherds. Meanwhile the besiegers, when they heard much noise among the cattle as they sat in council, sprang to their horses, and made with all speed towards them; when they reached them they set battle in array by the banks of the river, and the hosts aimed their bronze-shod spears at one another. With them were Strife and Riot, and fell Fate who was dragging three men after her, one with a fresh wound, and the other unwounded, while the third was dead, and she was dragging him along by his heel: and her robe was bedrabbled in men's blood. They went in and out with one another and fought as though they were living people haling away one another's dead.

He wrought also a fair fallow field, large and thrice ploughed already. Many men were working at the plough within it, turning their oxen to and fro, furrow after furrow. Each time that they turned on reaching the headland a man would come up to them and give them a cup of wine, and they would go back to their furrows looking forward to the time when they should again reach the headland. The part that they had ploughed was dark behind them, so that the field, though it was of gold, still looked as if it were being ploughed- very curious to behold.

He wrought also a field of harvest corn, and the reapers were reaping with sharp sickles in their hands. Swathe after swathe fell to the ground in a straight line behind them, and the binders bound them in bands of twisted straw. There were three binders, and behind them there were boys who gathered the cut corn in armfuls and kept on bringing them to be bound: among them all the owner of the land stood by in silence and was glad. The servants were getting a meal ready under an oak, for they had sacrificed a great ox, and were busy cutting him up, while the women were making a porridge of much white barley for the labourers' dinner.

He wrought also a vineyard, golden and fair to see, and the vines were loaded with grapes. The bunches overhead were black, but the vines were trained on poles of silver. He ran a ditch of dark metal all round it, and fenced it with a fence of tin; there was only one path to it, and by this the vintagers went when they would gather the vintage. Youths and maidens all blithe and full of glee, carried the luscious fruit in plaited baskets; and with them there went a boy who made sweet music with his lyre, and sang the Linus-song with his clear boyish voice.

He wrought also a herd of homed cattle. He made the cows of gold and tin, and they lowed as they came full speed out of the yards to go and feed among the waving reeds that grow by the banks of the river. Along with the cattle there went four shepherds, all of them in gold, and their nine fleet dogs went with them. Two terrible lions had fastened on a bellowing bull that was with the foremost cows, and bellow as he might they haled him, while the dogs and men gave chase: the lions tore through the bull's thick hide and were gorging on his blood and bowels, but the herdsmen were afraid to do anything, and only hounded on their dogs; the dogs dared not fasten on the lions but stood by barking and keeping out of harm's way.

The god wrought also a pasture in a fair mountain dell, and large flock of sheep, with a homestead and huts, and sheltered sheepfolds.

Furthermore he wrought a green, like that which Daedalus once made in Cnossus for lovely Ariadne. Hereon there danced youths and maidens whom all would woo, with their hands on one another's wrists. The maidens wore robes of light linen, and the youths well woven shirts that were slightly oiled. The girls were crowned with garlands, while the young men had daggers of gold that hung by silver baldrics; sometimes they would dance deftly in a ring with merry twinkling feet, as it were a potter sitting at his work and making trial of his wheel to see whether it will run, and sometimes they would go all in line with one another, and much people was gathered joyously about the green. There was a bard also to sing to them and play his lyre, while two tumblers went about performing in the midst of them when the man struck up with his tune.

All round the outermost rim of the shield he set the mighty stream of the river Oceanus.

Then when he had fashioned the shield so great and strong, he made a breastplate also that shone brighter than fire. He made helmet, close fitting to the brow, and richly worked, with a golden plume overhanging it; and he made greaves also of beaten tin.

Makes sense to me.
Wow, I must say this is a well thought out argument. Though I don't feel like it applies everywhere, like why is all elven armor so ornate? Or all Dwemer for that matter?
Now you are just being picky. But I would have to say that is so you can tell from far away if the armor is better. Back to TES: iron armor is dark grey, steel is light grey, silver is lighter, dwarven is bronze, orcish has a green tint, so on and so on. It is so you can glance and know how much of a sh*t storm you are about to be in.

Also, I am pointing back to my previous post. This over the top armor has been going on for over 2 thousand years. Look at the description of Achilles's armor in Iliad.
 

BaronUberstein

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Grunt_Man11 said:
believer258 said:
We already have too much realism in our shooters. We do not need it in our fantasy RPG's!

Please, people, for the love of God, don't start this. I don't want boring realism in my fantasy. It's fucking fantasy, for cryin' out loud! It's supposed to be unrealistic and fun!

I do understand it if you think that armor in modern fantasy games is unsightly, though Skyrim is far from a bad offender of that. I think that a lot of Skyrim's armor is fairly awesome looking. The bland and boring ones are for the blander and more boring common armors, and they're supposed to get more decorative as you get better stuff.
Gotta agree here. With all the complaining about FPS shooters focusing too much on realism, or authenticity, and the whining about chest-high walls on this site. It amazes me that here we have a thread whining about something that gets away from boring, brown realism.

Can we make up our minds already?

Do we want realism or creativity?

Pick one!

And don't go saying, "Can't we have both?" because the answer is NO.
It's not really possible to have creativity when you have oppressive realism handing over head.
So...I guess the physicists who figure out how the universe works aren't creative? Because that's within the confines of reality.

Perhaps some of us have fun with the confines of reality? Perhaps there can be games for BOTH the people who want realism and the people who want neon pink porcupine armor with glowing skulls hovering around the helmet?

I look at Sauron's armor in the LOTR movies, and I laugh. It isn't scary, it isn't cool looking, it's downright silly! People are drooling over this spiky black armor with dozens of spikes and fire bursting out of the eyes, some skulls thrown on there for good measure, and I simply don't get it. But then you put me in a game where I'm driving a tank while being actually INSIDE the tank, looking though the tiny view ports and struggling to see what's in front of me as the commander is yelling orders from the turret, and my first thought is "This is awesome." That's the kind of situation where I'm going to start singing Panzerlied and running over enemy infantry! Creating battle plans, figuring out how to best take a shattered apartment building filled with enemies when all you have is a bolt action rifle and your bayonet, that takes creativity as well. Creativity isn't limited to saying "let's make it fancier! FANCIER!"

People have different tastes (clearly there are people who enjoy the 'brown' games), and I argue we can have games for both sides of this argument without belittling the others opinion.