So you start a thread asking why people don't like NWN2, you get your answers and because you don't like them you are going to ignore people...Smooth dude. I for one liken NWN1 and NWN2 i just couldn't get into, mind you I didn't have an internet connection at that time so I played the game without being affected by any reviews so don't give me that "jump on the hate bandwagon". Face it! Some people actually don't like what you like.
I, as blasphemous as this sounds, preffered the NWN 2 original campaign over NWN 1's: Characters and party members were more varied (Aka. you actually GOT a party rather then chalking out change for one person to tag along with you). Online community is pretty good on both: Then again I'm a roleplayer, so maybe thats got something to do with it. Overall, both are good games in my eyes and i would play them both again if given the chance.
If you guys want a TRULY horrid Single/multi-player Rpg you can hate on, i've got the perfect one for you: Dungeon Lords. GO! Unite as one Nwn 1 and Nwn 2 fanbases and redirect your negative energies towards this abomination instead!
So you start a thread asking why people don't like NWN2, you get your answers and because you don't like them you are going to ignore people...Smooth dude. I for one liken NWN1 and NWN2 i just couldn't get into, mind you I didn't have an internet connection at that time so I played the game without being affected by any reviews so don't give me that "jump on the hate bandwagon". Face it! Some people actually don't like what you like.
Like Chronotrigger, I simply missed the window to fully enjoy either NWN game.
Like trying to get people to enjoy Silent Hill 1 nowadays, it's just too hard to see past the graphics and fully enjoy the game when the technology's that far gone.
I honestly don't understand people who say the first Neverwinter Nights was better. Maybe if you're heavily into the multiplayer or if you only played the game post two expansions and a shit-load of patches and fan content... but on release, standing on its own merits? My god, Neverwinter Nights was pretty damned shit. The original campaign for NWN1 makes 2 looks absolutely Shakespearean plot-wise, the gameplay was stagnant and boring, the visuals shitty even for their time, and people seem to forget it too was plagued with bugs and issues. Controlling one character in D&D is fine and all for mp, but singleplayer wise that stupid henchman system was a damned poor replacement for genuine tactical combat! Instead NWN1 played more akin to a particularly deep hack & slash, and badly balanced one at that.
Indeed NWN1's sole redeeming features on release and the ones which drew people like me to eventually embrace the game was it's multiplayer, and it's potential as a platform for user content and campaigns. And since frankly I don't give a damn about MP, just the user campaigns and content for me.
Thankfully the original game lived up to that potential of becoming a platform for numerous fan projects. But really I'm not willing to give the credit to Bioware for something their fans did. NWN1 was... kinda shit. And I say that as someone who's sunk probably hundreds of hours in NWN1 (Despite everything I just typed!) and a big fan of Bioware in general as well. Still if it weren't for the fan content I probably wouldn't have touched NWN in years, it's only because of that content that I have NWN installed right now as it so happens.
It just seems like a lot of people cover their ears, put on the nostalgia goggles, and stand there going 'Lalalalalala' whenever NWN1 is being compared to its sequel.
As for NWN2. Right out of the box on release it was buggy as hell, the framerate was terrible, and bluntly put the campaign starts off pretty damned shitty which certainly didn't help improve first impressions. That said it also boasted a campaign that unlike the first games plot, did eventually pick up and become, well, interesting. It *finally* re-implemented a group system so you weren't just controlling one character in singleplayer. And its potential for mods is just as strong as the originals, if not moreso because while more complex and difficult to use, the toolset is accordingly capable of more as well.
I've heard the Multiplayer wasn't as good, but that's not my thing so I couldn't care less.
And now, years after release, the bugs have been patched, the performance much improved, and Obisidian released the expansion Mask of the Betrayer which singleplayer-wise is by far the highlight of the entire NWN series. A few people in this topic have pointed towards Bioware's second expansion Hordes of the Underdark as a main selling point for NWN, and while HotU was indeed the singleplayer highlight for NWN1 (excluding fan campaign) it really isn't nearly as good as MotB. Still, the gameplay is certainly not the smoothest and the camera despite numerous tweaks and improvements over the years can still be frustrating. But all things considered those are relatively minor complaints.
NWN2 is also home to some of the best fan-campaign out there. Not as many as NWN1 obviously, the first game not only easier to work with editor-wise but also having been out much, much longer. But damned impressive nonetheless and certainly worth the price of admission. Misery Stone in particular is so vast and includes so much custom content it could easily be an expansion in its own right!
Standing on their own merits, fan-content aside but counting expansions and patches, Neverwinter Nights 2 I'd say is a damned sight better than the first and indeed an extremely good game by its own right if you're into rpgs, D&D, or both. I can't help but reiterate how good Mask of the Betrayer is!
Counting fan content and the full multiplayer capabilities of both games it certainly evens out however. NWN1 just has so many amazing fan mods out there and the mp experience is apparently still active today with persistent servers that work akin to mini MMO, which is neat if not really my thing. NWN2 from what I understand isn't nearly as strong MP wise, and doesn't boast as large a mod collection for reasons mentioned above, but still stands respectably strong.
So really they're both great experience and both worth owning and giving a try... huh, who woulda seen that coming?
...
Hmm, well that post came out pretty damned lengthy. Still, was fun to type. Think I'll save this post for next time the inevitable NWN1 vs 2 thing comes up, which it always does every few months.
I think the main campaign is pretty good, but mainly Mask of the Betrayer is the reason why I like it so much.
Edit: Also, I'd say the reason so many people on this site dislike it, because of the huge amount of BioWare fans on this forum, and many of those dislike Obsidian's sequels in general (KOTOR 2). Personally, I liked KOTOR 2 just as much as the original (which was alot).
Played both NWN1 and NWN2, mostly multiplayer since the campaigns were very lackluster in my opinion, and a multiplayer roleplaying server was my primary focus. Spent far longer than I should on those games considering how little I liked the gameplay.
Gameplay-wise, both are very poorly made. D20 D&D is a barely passable board game with close friends and a terrible game without. Neverwinter Nights (1 and 2) took that turn-based and very random system and tried to make into a multiplayer real time battle game. The game is designed to be almost fully comprised of what is, in my opinion, the worse part of D&D. The combat.
The randomness side is really what gets me. No amount of building up your character and no amount of individual player skill will ever negate the fact that you will be guaranteed 5% chance to instantly fail or succeed at anything that matters.
Additionally, spell slots are perhaps the most irritating thing in the history of the universe. A limited number of spells per day (day being the time between pressing the R button to rest) which you must memorize before hand. You never want to take attack spells because they are either flat damage (which is done better by auto-attacking as a combat character) or are a Save or Die and will therefore have at the very very least an automatic 5% chance of failure, probably more if you're fighting anything to be concerned about.
Wall of Specificity:
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Fighters, as you mention, are the easiest thing to play and not in a good way. At worst (low levels you are guaranteed this) you will spend all your time auto-attacking and the vast majority of those attacks will miss because of the way the attack system works. At best you'll try to use special abilities that do basically nothing the majority of the time.
Rogues are essentially the same way without the survivability and they need to either use Feint or be flanking someone. Or have someone knocked down, which will never happen without a Barbarian or a high Strength Fighter (NWN2).
Barbarians suffer from the same issue as Fighters, but with even more randomness because they enter a race of RNG with whatever enemy they're fighting with Rage.
Bards don't really get the benefit of the D&D social roleplay aspect. There is no DM (except on Roleplay servers) to facilitate your interactions and the little checks the Campaigns have are mostly token and few and far between. Not especially good as a combat class either without a Fighter or something nearby.
Rangers are probably better off than some, but not necessarily that great either. Lots of auto-attacking, but they have the advantage of getting a crapton of Feats for free with their specializations.
Druids are amazing, but that mostly comes in the form of buffing themselves or their animal companion to the heavens of power.
Clerics are basically the same as Druids, without the animal companion and with some better self buffs that don't last very long.
Wizards and Sorcerers are really just ever so slightly different takes on the same thing. Same spells, different limitations. They essentially do the same as Druids, except they have to use up a spell slot on summoning a monster first.
Monks are basically the same as Fighters in terms of gameplay except they start out squishier and get more attacks per round in the end. They get some nifty things, but without some of the gimmicks of normal D&D they're not really worth it.
Paladins can be rather useful with the right feats, but they suffer from the need to have a crapton of different stats. They get some of the cool stuff Clerics get, some of the basic stuff that Fighters get, and some of their own stuff which is, in some cases, crap and in others rather nice.
Warlocks are the only caster you want to play if you want to deal direct damage. They do just as much damage as the Wizard and Sorcerer direct damage spells, but you can cast them as many times as you want, and even apply things to them. You don't really get many buffs though. You do get to wear Light Armor or you can spend a feat to get
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It's an interesting idea that ultimately can't live up to the creativity or direct social (Laugh all you want. D&D, while nerdy, is inherently social.) interaction that real D&D provides, and the auto attacking removes the enjoyment that can come out of rolling well and getting lucky.
Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2(as well as D&D) are built on a very high amount of random returns that boils down to building your character in the right way and watching them go. Some people enjoy that, and that's perfectly fine. Most will probably want a more direct interaction with their character and the world they inhabit.
Primary characters:
Neverwinter Nights 1:
Fighter/Rogue/Weapon Master
Use Knockdown a lot. Win fights because even Dragons couldn't stand up to the massive ridiculousness that was high Strength and a lot of Attack Bonus items coupled with the Improved Knockdown Feat. Rejoice in the Immunity to Mind Affecting amulet as well as Immunity to Death Effects ring in the Campaign.
Neverwinter Nights 2:
Cleric
Cast buffs. Become immune to everything and be able to hit anything (most of the time). Walk in and auto attack to victory whilst going off and making lunch.
[Edit] Sorry about the wall of text. That turned out to be much longer than originally intended.
Really it's just tweaking settings imo. I loved the game though, almost as much as the first, if you don't count expansions. 1 has much better expansions. 2 has really really terrible expansions, except MoB which is like a nugget of gold.
What NWN2 only had 1 expansion MotB which was pretty good. There were released a content pack called Storm of Zehir, it was a good content patch AND NOTHING MORE, don't ever mention it again.
And who, pray tell, are you to decide what is or is not "one of the greatest games"?
You liked it, well bully for you, others didn't now stop acting like a child that's had it's favourite toy insulted and stop insulting those that disagree with you.
Personally I didn't care much for the first one and couldn't get the second to run preoperly, this is after patches.
I loved NWN1, especially it's multiplayer which still has a strong fan-base today. I just got so wrapped up it and had heard that many bad reviews about the sequel that i never played it. but it's still in my collection so i may hoke it out sometime and see for myself.
I liked it. I never thought it was that bad. My main problem with it was the fact it was using a D20 system. I never cared for video games trying to utilize the D20 system. It just doesn't work.
Well I don't know Torment took me 10 hours to get into(compared to the 2 hours of NWN2), It was great defiantly in my top 3 but better then BG2+exp I don't think so.
NWN1 was truly appalling. The story was some of the weakest story-telling I've ever ever encountered. It was a big pile of fail, and whilst it did pick up in the expansions, it never REALLY got anywhere. Also, it had a huge number of game-breaking bugs (can't get past the Hosttower roof until it was patched all to hell). It was my #2 biggest disappointment of a game (Unreal Tournament 3 being the worst).
NWN2 was much better. After a slow start (it doesn't really kick off until you've got into the Blacklake district, imo), you encounter some really truly great areas, its plot picks up, its far more varied than most RPGs (I really enjoyed the trial scence), and the variety at character creation was something to behold. It was still buggy though.
MotB was also one of the best expansions for an RPG ever released, and story-wise, comes close to the strength of PS:T (well, as close as anything can come).
In short, NWN2 is great. I'm still waiting for the full release of Purgatorium though.
Really it's just tweaking settings imo. I loved the game though, almost as much as the first, if you don't count expansions. 1 has much better expansions. 2 has really really terrible expansions, except MoB which is like a nugget of gold.
What NWN2 only had 1 expansion MotB which was pretty good. There were released a content pack called Storm of Zehir, it was a good content patch AND NOTHING MORE, don't ever mention it again.
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, and buying old dated games is so hard now a days.
