Why is Obsidian so praised?

[plugav]

Obsidian may not have given us anything as great as Black Isle and Troika have, but they do have one characteristic that sets them apart from the rest of the AAA industry - they try new things.

 

[Irridium]

Also, what The Madman said above. All of what he said.

Why thank you!

I think one of my favourite moments in Kotor 2 was just a seemingly simple conversation had between two of your companions where they take the time to ask and answer a very simple yet almost never asked question in games, "Why am I doing this?".

See one of the characters isn't actually a violent person. Sure she's tough and will fight if she has to but she's against the concept of killing and ending another persons life. Of course in good old fashioned rpg style once recruited by the player she then joins the player in all out slaughter as dozens if not hundreds of generic npc throw themselves against you and are killed. It happens in literally every rpg out there, all of them. From the original Kotor where sweet little Mission, the blue faced teen girl and her lovable wookie sidekick, slaughter hundreds of people without thought or worry to Skyrim where you and your companion can go all out genocide on towns and villages, entire local species with nary a moment of conscience.

Throughout gaming in general this minor details is just something players expect and dismiss as game mechanics. Kotor 2 is to the best of my knowledge the only game that steps back and says "Wait, this isn't right, why are they doing this? Are these characters alright with this? Do they care?". And then works to create a plausible reason for why these characters are doing this, not only that but even showing the characters discussing and arguing over it among themselves. You know, like actual people would!

It's that sort of attention to what would otherwise be a minor plot detail that endears Obsidian to me. It's such a tiny thing that every other developer is more than happy to overlook but which Obsidian took the time to try and explain and, in so doing, make the characters within the story a little more believable.

Same with me. Out of the whole game, that moment is what sticks with me the most, and pretty much is a great example of what Kotor 2 does and why it's so great. It explores the ramifications of things. It gets you thinking. It gets you to think about Star Wars in a new way. Gets you to think of the force as more than just a simple deus ex machina. Well, it still kind of is, but it delves more into the how's and why's, instead of just going along with it.

 

[Condiments]

Playing through Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas is enough evidence for me. While most people say "HURR, ITS JUST AN EXPANSION", there definitely different design at work. The writing, quest design, and character system was a lot more well designed. People give it a lot of trouble due to some of the bugs, but it doesn't override the core of the experience.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

I don't see many other developers even trying to do what Obsidian did with Alpha Protocol. Whilst it's true that they aren't outstanding, they're a dull glint of hope in a sea of repetition and stagnation.

Alpha Protocol was hardly a masterpiece, but it tried a few things that other games of the day didn't and still haven't. Same can be said of Fallout New Vegas. There just aren't any modern RPGs that have the semi-complex social systems that Alpha Protocol and New Vegas had.

 

[Laser Priest]

Obsidian is bad, but I am okay with them.

But I have to say, I loved New Vegas. It didn't feel quite as apocalyptic as Fallout 3, but it felt like a somewhat apocalyptic Sci-fi western, and I adored it. Plus, the awful writing in Fallout 3 destroyed any and all immersion for me. But then again, Obsidian got Black Isle for most of the writing, as far as I'm aware and the gameplay was only slightly changed from Bethesda's work.

I can't say I've seen Obsidian do much good work themselves, but New Vegas alone more than redeems them for me.

 

[JaceArveduin]

Obisidan, I know they New Vegas, but I knew I'd seen them before. One quick internet search later found the culprit, they helped with the Dark Alliance games for PS2.

 

[Hitokiri_Gensai]

because properly sharpened obsidian blades are sharper than any steel implement on earth with an edge approaching 3 nanometre's thick. Even the sharpest steel has a jagged edge when examined under a microscope, however obsidian blades are still completely smooth.

OHHHH the company i dunno, i know nothing of it

 

[Kimarous]

because properly sharpened obsidian blades are sharper than any steel implement on earth with an edge approaching 3 nanometre's thick. Even the sharpest steel has a jagged edge when examined under a microscope, however obsidian blades are still completely smooth.

OHHHH the game i dunno, i know nothing of it

We're not discussing a game. We're talking about a game company.

 

[Zantos]

It's not that their writing is amazing literature, it's that they write games in such a way that it encourages real roleplaying, rather than the Bioware formula of Boy Scout/Milquetoast/Kitten Stomper.

There are actual grey areas in their games, and you have a lot more dialogue options with character depth than you usually get in an RPG. Troika and Black Isle did this even better than Obsidian, but Obsidian is still pretty good at it.

Shit given about conversation topic: None, really, people like the games because they think they're well written. They defend it because you're attacking it, most people don't care if you're willing to just let it go that you don't agree with them.

Shit given about quote: Everything about the Bioware formula is awesome. Nice

 

[DarkRyter]

Dude, have you played New Vegas?

Sometimes I have dreams where I'm giving Chris Avellone and J.E Sawyer handjobs.

 

[Hitokiri_Gensai]

because properly sharpened obsidian blades are sharper than any steel implement on earth with an edge approaching 3 nanometre's thick. Even the sharpest steel has a jagged edge when examined under a microscope, however obsidian blades are still completely smooth.

OHHHH the game i dunno, i know nothing of it

We're not discussing a game. We're talking about a game company.

ok, changed my comment

 

[Condiments]

Here's the thing for me. I love the Obsidian games I've played. KOTOR II is probably my favourite Star Wars game ever (and by the way OP, you're wrong, the writing in KOTOR is superb, even if you can't see it). But I'll happily admit that they release buggy games.

What I don't get is why so many gamers, including people who post regularly here on the Escapist, are so quick and ready to shit all over Obsidian in every way they can for releasing buggy games, yet they completely ignore it when develoeprsl like Bethesda release equally buggy titles.

Look at Skyrim. Bethesda have just released the latest patch, and it's absolutely broken the game. Dragons are now flying backwards, magic resistance doesn't work like it's supposed to, NPCs are behaving in all sorts of freaky, glitchtastic ways... but no-one rages on Bethesda to the same degree as Oblivion. Bethesda have yet to release a game that is anything close to stable, yet people still happily shout "YAY GAME OF TEH YEAR!!!!".

Why are gamers so quick to forgive companies like Bethesda when they're just as buggy as Obsidian? Especially considering that Obsidian has hands down one of the best (indeed, arguably the best) writing team in the entire industry? They released Mask Of The Betrayer for goodness sake. That alone should earn them a boatload of respect in the industry.

Maybe that's how Obsidian like it. Instead of becoming part of the machine like Bethesda and (shudder) Bioware, they're the perpetual outsider, standing out on the street corner smoking a cigarette, listening to that subversive rock music and making all sorts of clever comments...

Mask of the betrayer is a modern classic, but its hilariously overlooked and overrated due to its expansion status to a mediocre game. I think it would be foolish to omit the fact that the company has troubles with project management, and Q&A, but many people don't notice the tremendous talent within one company.

I'm hoping Obsidian strikes it big a SP RPG akin to MotB as one of their new IPs, but they don't seem to have a chance.

 

[Kimarous]

Here's the thing for me. I love the Obsidian games I've played. KOTOR II is probably my favourite Star Wars game ever (and by the way OP, you're wrong, the writing in KOTOR is superb, even if you can't see it). But I'll happily admit that they release buggy games.

What I don't get is why so many gamers, including people who post regularly here on the Escapist, are so quick and ready to shit all over Obsidian in every way they can for releasing buggy games, yet they completely ignore it when develoeprsl like Bethesda release equally buggy titles.

Look at Skyrim. Bethesda have just released the latest patch, and it's absolutely broken the game. Dragons are now flying backwards, magic resistance doesn't work like it's supposed to, NPCs are behaving in all sorts of freaky, glitchtastic ways... but no-one rages on Bethesda to the same degree as Oblivion. Bethesda have yet to release a game that is anything close to stable, yet people still happily shout "YAY GAME OF TEH YEAR!!!!".

Why are gamers so quick to forgive companies like Bethesda when they're just as buggy as Obsidian? Especially considering that Obsidian has hands down one of the best (indeed, arguably the best) writing team in the entire industry? They released Mask Of The Betrayer for goodness sake. That alone should earn them a boatload of respect in the industry.

Maybe that's how Obsidian like it. Instead of becoming part of the machine like Bethesda and (shudder) Bioware, they're the perpetual outsider, standing out on the street corner smoking a cigarette, listening to that subversive rock music and making all sorts of clever comments...

Yes, because subjective opinion has to be "wrong." Kreia is fascinating, to be sure, but a fascinating character doesn't compensate for the fact that the pacing is shit. That's the main reason I can't bring myself to do repeat playthroughs; the "beginning" (by which I mean "everything before you can pick which planet to visit) takes FOREVER! If you can overlook that, power to you, but it's a game killer for me.

Sure Bethesda doesn't have the best track record for stable games either, but there are a couple factors in Bethesda's favour, the main one being that they have a HUGE modding community that tends to patch issues that the developers never get around to, let alone the other mods that improve peoples' enjoyment. The creation kit may not be out yet, but once it is available, you just KNOW that people will be swarming to fix any bugs they can find (except maybe the "killed by giant = Team Rocket" one).

I will admit, though, that I'm not the best person to defend Skyrim at this point in time, since I don't have it yet. That's one of the advantages of getting it for Christmas; there's a sizable window for patches to be made.

 

[Kae]

Well I liked the original version of KOTOR II but that was a long time ago, in fact I just got my old copy back from a friend yesterday, after 3 years.
Off Topic:
SO I was wondering can anyone tell me of a reliable way to get the KOTOR II patches?

 

[The Madman]

Well I liked the original version of KOTOR II but that was a long time ago, in fact I just got my old copy back from a friend yesterday, after 3 years.
Off Topic:
SO I was wondering can anyone tell me of a reliable way to get the KOTOR II patches?

I linked it in an earlier post but the Restored Content Mod is what you're looking for. The mod comes with its own installer and all that so there's no need for any tinkering at all. Pretty sure it also comes with the official patches built in as well, but if not you can find the patches right here including the option high-resolution cinematics and high quality sound patches.

Enjoy!

 

[Kae]

Well I liked the original version of KOTOR II but that was a long time ago, in fact I just got my old copy back from a friend yesterday, after 3 years.
Off Topic:
SO I was wondering can anyone tell me of a reliable way to get the KOTOR II patches?

I linked it in an earlier post but the Restored Content Mod is what you're looking for. The mod comes with its own installer and all that so there's no need for any tinkering at all. Pretty sure it also comes with the official patches built in as well, but if not you can find the patches right here including the option high-resolution cinematics and high quality sound patches.

Enjoy!

WOW!!! Thanks a lot man!!!

 

[Martijn Nijkeuter]

Why are gamers so quick to forgive companies like Bethesda when they're just as buggy as Obsidian? Especially considering that Obsidian has hands down one of the best (indeed, arguably the best) writing team in the entire industry? They released Mask Of The Betrayer for goodness sake. That alone should earn them a boatload of respect in the industry.

playable with occasional crashes and goofy bugs (Bethesda) trumps several bugs which prevent progress in the game all together(Obsidian).

i literally couldn't play nwn2 for 6 months due to bugs, now i admit i wasn't to tech savvy back then but i did use the official patches. and when i finally could play it, i just couldn't get back into it emotionally.

granted i didn't play fallout new vegas, and the nwn2 initial state was (hopefully) the worst of their games, but for me personally (and likely quite a few other gamers) such experience just made me shun Obsidian as a developer.


edit: fixed grammar a bit

 

[Pandabearparade]

New Vegas... not terrible, but I found it rather underwhelming. Maybe I just liked the atmosphere of Fallout 3 better and that's why, but... eh... not "they are awesome writers" level.

After the writing fail of Fallout 3's main "plot" (and calling it that is generous), anything would seem great. New Vegas happened to have a very good story with an enormous amount of moral choices and places to explore, followers with some personality, and some of the best side quests I've ever personally experienced in a game before.

And bugs. Though most have been fixed, now, the launch state was unacceptably bad.

 

[Sutter Cane]

Just a little throwaway comment, i find it interesting that the one weakness KOTOR II has wen it comes to it's writing, is the one thing that the first game excelled at: Pacing. In fact, I'd argue that KOTOR 1 doesn't have that much going for it in the story/writing department other than the revelation and it's pacing. I'm actually thinking about writing an essay on it.

 

[Ve1ociraptor]

Within Obsidian are the hands-down best writers in the industry. There's no one else that comes close. Gameplay varies from good to below-average, there's always bugs out the ass, and the graphics aren't special (this is why most of their work are expansions, sequels, or using a well-established engine). But there is not a company in existence today that can write like Obsidian. If you go start naming the best-written games in history, it's literally a laundry list of stuff done by Obsidian or done by people who are now part of Obsidian.

OP is also ignorant of the plot of KOTOR 2. He complains that most of the locations are sparsely-populated, and the only meaningful interactions you have are with your companions. The entire story of KOTOR 2 revolves around you and your companions. Developers aren't going to pour time and money into a segment of the game that is -- at best -- completely tangential to the plot.