Why is Star Trek so popular?

[Hawki]

Farscape is Firefly for people with fetishes.

wow I can't remember her name, the Companion.

Inara. But I'd hardly call her fetish material.

 

[happyninja42]

Inara. But I'd hardly call her fetish material.

Sexy mature older woman vibe, professional love maker, mystic, tantric sex vibe, long flowing dark locks with smoldering eyes....yeah, totally not anyone's kink/fetish at all.....nope.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Eh, both Firefly and Farscape are Blake's7 done by the Anglosphere, rather than the Angles.

 

[MrCalavera]

Sorry for late response.

You're focusing on the wrong part of my statement. The scientific accuracy isn't the issue, it's the analogy to real-world stuff. So when Star Trek makes specific parallels to the anxieties of the time, I don't see how it can just be "escapist fantasy."

It doesn't have to just be an escapist fantasy, to be an escapist fantasy. Echoing real life issues doesn't disqualify it.
Like, for example, Fallout is one of my favorite fictional universes. And i consider it my escapist fantasy. Despite Fallout's world being absolutely awful, i still like to RP a hunter/scavenger in it.
And Star Trek has a considerably more pleasant world, even if you're not the protagonist.

 

[Terminal Blue]

The best example of this is the Drumhead episode from TNG. Which is flat out a McCarthy-esque witch hunt, run by a well respected and senior judge of the Federation. And the whole thing boils down to Picard pointing out that she is being tyrannical and conspiracy mad, and looking for spies in every one she sees.

I think the really important thing about that episode is that, In the end, the judge goes too far. She launches into this rant against Picard which reveals her true motivations. The point of the admiral walking out of the courtroom is that he was one of her allies at Starfleet command, but is now so disgusted he immediately abandons her. It's still a utopian fantasy, because it's a utopian fantasy that people, when they see oppression or the curtailing of civil liberties, will actually care.

How many people in position power stood up and opposed enhanced interrogation, for example? That was literally torture. It's not secret knowledge what was done to people, it was literally in the reports. Who stood up and walked out in disgust?

So, while I don't LIKE the fact that Picard went that route with the show, in my head canon, I basically just say that the Federation of the time that Picard takes place in, is one where people like that Judge, have controlling sway over the Federation.

See, I could maybe buy that. Except, here's the thing.

Who is Seven of Nine in Voyager? What are her unique qualities as a character and what does she contribute to the Voyager crew and the federation?

I mean, let's leave aside the snarky answer that Seven was played by a very beautiful actress and was shoehorned into an underperforming TV show to boost ratings, as a character Seven is defined by being incredibly smart and knowledgeable. She has this incredible knowledge left over from having been assimilated into the borg hivemind. Her role on the ship is to run the astrometrics lab and scan things. She's a scientist. Because the universe of star Trek is one where scientists get to be heroes by solving problems with their brains. We also see that she carries this enormous burden of guilt for all the people she killed and assimilated, and that she increasingly comes to dislike violence and to agree with the federations values

Actually though, if you think this you're remembering wrong. Seven of Nine was actually a sexy bisexual tough chick who kicked ass and shot bad people without remorse and liked guns and killing. Because the writers of Picard only wached the episode where she had a gladiatorial fight with Dwayne 'the Rock' Johnson (and slept through the conclusion of that episode, thus missing the actual characterisation).

And that's kind of sad isn't it. I mean, of all the things Seven could have done after Voyager returned to earth, the idea that she fucked off to join a paramilitary group and became the Punisher is just kind of depressing, and that's what Picard is. It's not just Seven, I picked her because she's a particularly egregious example but virtually any recurring character or feature has gone through the same transformation. It's depressing. It's not believably depressing, it's depressing because the idiots who make this show think that depressing equals adult and adult equals sophisticated.

 

[Hawki]

Eh, both Firefly and Farscape are Blake's7 done by the Anglosphere, rather than the Angles.

Sorry, if that's a reference, it's lost on me.

 

[Eacaraxe]

...Who is Seven of Nine in Voyager?...

Ah, that moment when a kinda-cool, but not very good, Star Trek MMO has better and more character- and lore-appropriate story lines than the nu-Trek garbage. And is actually more canon than the nu-Trek shit too, not being part of the "25% different" contractual agreement to which Bad Robot and its excrement is/was obliged and therefore spun off the "prime timeline" as opposed to being a "Kelvin timeline" product.

As far as STD and Picard, I liked RLM's summation of it: it's Trek by people who don't know Trek except for the huge shit everyone knows, don't understand Trek, and have a highly revisionist take on Trek, for an audience of their dubious peers. Y'know, the kind of person who hasn't watched TOS enough to realize Roddenberry's own take on Trek after it became an entertainment phenomenon was absolute bunk.

 

[Gordon_4]

I think the really important thing about that episode is that, In the end, the judge goes too far. She launches into this rant against Picard which reveals her true motivations. The point of the admiral walking out of the courtroom is that he was one of her allies at Starfleet command, but is now so disgusted he immediately abandons her. It's still a utopian fantasy, because it's a utopian fantasy that people, when they see oppression or the curtailing of civil liberties, will actually care.

How many people in position power stood up and opposed enhanced interrogation, for example? That was literally torture. It's not secret knowledge what was done to people, it was literally in the reports. Who stood up and walked out in disgust?



See, I could maybe buy that. Except, here's the thing.

Who is Seven of Nine in Voyager? What are her unique qualities as a character and what does she contribute to the Voyager crew and the federation?

I mean, let's leave aside the snarky answer that Seven was played by a very beautiful actress and was shoehorned into an underperforming TV show to boost ratings, as a character Seven is defined by being incredibly smart and knowledgeable. She has this incredible knowledge left over from having been assimilated into the borg hivemind. Her role on the ship is to run the astrometrics lab and scan things. She's a scientist. Because the universe of star Trek is one where scientists get to be heroes by solving problems with their brains. We also see that she carries this enormous burden of guilt for all the people she killed and assimilated, and that she increasingly comes to dislike violence and to agree with the federations values

Actually though, if you think this you're remembering wrong. Seven of Nine was actually a sexy bisexual tough chick who kicked ass and shot bad people without remorse and liked guns and killing. Because the writers of Picard only wached the episode where she had a gladiatorial fight with Dwayne 'the Rock' Johnson (and slept through the conclusion of that episode, thus missing the actual characterisation).

And that's kind of sad isn't it. I mean, of all the things Seven could have done after Voyager returned to earth, the idea that she fucked off to join a paramilitary group and became the Punisher is just kind of depressing, and that's what Picard is. It's not just Seven, I picked her because she's a particularly egregious example but virtually any recurring character or feature has gone through the same transformation. It's depressing. It's not believably depressing, it's depressing because the idiots who make this show think that depressing equals adult and adult equals sophisticated.

Really, I have the same opinions about Deep Space Nine and all of its bullshit but everyone keeps telling me that it’s fantastic and because of the Dominion War arc - which I consider the biggest story mistake Star Trek has ever made - it showed that the Federation’s principles were incompatible with ‘reality’. If you’re displeased with why you found in Picard it’s because it grew out of that seven odd season mistake.

 

[Hawki]

Ah, that moment when a kinda-cool, but not very good, Star Trek MMO has better and more character- and lore-appropriate story lines than the nu-Trek garbage.

Considering that Picard takes place in 2399, and Online begins in 2407, are the two mutually exclusive?

 

[Kwak]

.... in this day and age, why's this thing still going?

It's not.
Only the franchise name is.
The spirit of the show died with enterprise, though the orville sorta captures it.
It's half-cheesy sentimental soap, half sometimes fairly well-written explorations of sci-fi concepts.
A lot of its appeal is to do with it just being kinda familiar and cosy, and it's a highly optimistic and hopeful vision for the human race.
Which has been thrown away in the new trek productions to favour what is dark and violent.

 

[happyninja42]

See, I could maybe buy that. Except, here's the thing.

Who is Seven of Nine in Voyager? What are her unique qualities as a character and what does she contribute to the Voyager crew and the federation?

I mean, let's leave aside the snarky answer that Seven was played by a very beautiful actress and was shoehorned into an underperforming TV show to boost ratings, as a character Seven is defined by being incredibly smart and knowledgeable. She has this incredible knowledge left over from having been assimilated into the borg hivemind. Her role on the ship is to run the astrometrics lab and scan things. She's a scientist. Because the universe of star Trek is one where scientists get to be heroes by solving problems with their brains. We also see that she carries this enormous burden of guilt for all the people she killed and assimilated, and that she increasingly comes to dislike violence and to agree with the federations values

Actually though, if you think this you're remembering wrong. Seven of Nine was actually a sexy bisexual tough chick who kicked ass and shot bad people without remorse and liked guns and killing. Because the writers of Picard only wached the episode where she had a gladiatorial fight with Dwayne 'the Rock' Johnson (and slept through the conclusion of that episode, thus missing the actual characterisation).

And that's kind of sad isn't it. I mean, of all the things Seven could have done after Voyager returned to earth, the idea that she fucked off to join a paramilitary group and became the Punisher is just kind of depressing, and that's what Picard is. It's not just Seven, I picked her because she's a particularly egregious example but virtually any recurring character or feature has gone through the same transformation. It's depressing. It's not believably depressing, it's depressing because the idiots who make this show think that depressing equals adult and adult equals sophisticated.

I'm not saying they didn't also totally destroy the backgrounds of characters, and misrepresent other relationships between characters, I'm only talking about how we got a Federation in the show Picard, that doesn't seem to represent anything of the old feeling of the Federation. People don't like it, and neither do I, but the fact that, after 30+ years, a bunch of political assholes put themselves into positions of power and influence in the government, to alter the rules, and change the public perception about US vs THEM, doesn't really surprise me. The elements of those people have canonically always been in the Federation, in pretty much every iteration of the franchise. They were just framed as isolated cases of a bad variant. Well, they're no longer the isolated variant. They've spread and have taken control of the whole thing.

THAT one bit, I don't really have an issue with. Well, I do, but not from the "it's out of nowhere and makes no sense canonically" standpoint. I mean if we can accept that the entire Head Admiralty of the Federation, at one point, were hosts to brain crabs, that had completely taken control of the upper levels of command, then "a large group of assholes took enough seats to gain political control of the Federation over time" , is hardly a blip on my radar.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Sorry, if that's a reference, it's lost on me.

Blake's 7 was a low (loooooow) budget BBC show created by Terry Nation (who also did Survivor and came up with the Daleks for Doctor Who) about a bunch of failed criminals and revolutionaries who escape and get a fancy alien ship and then go back to being criminals and revolutionaries and fail because grimdark.

The makers of Farscape explicitly stated that Blake's 7 was an inspiration, and it shows.

Really, I have the same opinions about Deep Space Nine and all of its bullshit but everyone keeps telling me that it’s fantastic and because of the Dominion War arc - which I consider the biggest story mistake Star Trek has ever made - it showed that the Federation’s principles were incompatible with ‘reality’.

Yes, this (and the writing wasn't great). Sick of everyone else who isn't in my immediately family (or, I guess, yourself, I don't think you're in my immediate family) saying it's the best evah.

(Random aside, I could see 7of9 as an action hero, but that's mostly because I remember her having proper trigger discipline and the rest of the Voyager crew getting that wrong. I'm about 90% sure that that wasn't intentional, though)

 

[Eacaraxe]

Considering that Picard takes place in 2399, and Online begins in 2407, are the two mutually exclusive?

Hilariously enough, they retconned STO's backstory upon CBS demand. Case in point, after Picard came out they removed Icheb from the game entirely, when previously he was the Starfleet TF-Omega contact on K-7.

In the STO story, Seven stayed with the Federation and was instrumental in forming the Borg Task Force and TF-Omega. She's arguably one of a handful of people responsible for the Federation not completely collapsing when the Borg re-invaded the Alpha and Beta quadrands en masse, and if I remember the original STO backstory right, she's the one who created the assimilation-resistance medical tech. She stayed with Starfleet past the point the Dyson sphere was discovered, and was sent as a Starfleet diplomatic attache to the Borg Cooperative if I remember the Delta Rising story right.

But honestly, once Legacy of Romulus came out, I switched to Romulan-KDF and never looked back, so I never saw the Federation side of the story personally.

 

[Trunkage]

Really, I have the same opinions about Deep Space Nine and all of its bullshit but everyone keeps telling me that it’s fantastic and because of the Dominion War arc - which I consider the biggest story mistake Star Trek has ever made - it showed that the Federation’s principles were incompatible with ‘reality’. If you’re displeased with why you found in Picard it’s because it grew out of that seven odd season mistake.

Funny. I don't think DS9 is great because of the Dominion War. Watching TNG again, there is hardly any depth to any characters, or constituency of characters between episodes, half the stories are mind control stories, I've watched 5 seasons and we've had 10 mins of Rikers/Troi's relationship. It apparently happened but none of its on screen so you don't get any idea that they're going to be a couple, Ro Laren had one great episode and then they wasted their whole potential. Also, everything is wiped at the end of the episode. To me, most stories were written and then they randomly picked who would be the main character.

DS9 is great because it had actual characters, that actually grew, that were put in real danger and had actual consequences. Many stories furthered the mythos of ST and the characters that were involved at the same time.

But, after hearing the backlash against Discovery and Picard, I'm definitely the anomaly.

 

[Hawki]

Blake's 7 was a low (loooooow) budget BBC show created by Terry Nation (who also did Survivor and came up with the Daleks for Doctor Who) about a bunch of failed criminals and revolutionaries who escape and get a fancy alien ship and then go back to being criminals and revolutionaries and fail because grimdark.

The makers of Farscape explicitly stated that Blake's 7 was an inspiration, and it shows.

Yeah, I get that, but what are "Angles?" Is that a fancy word for English/British?

If we're on the subject, yeah, I've seen Blake's 7, it wouldn't surprise me if Farscape took inspiration from it. That said, Firefly and Farscape do the job better than B7, and it's not just because of the budget.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah, I get that, but what are "Angles?" Is that a fancy word for English/British?

More or less, it's where the prefix "Anglo" comes from, and I used the word Anglosphere, so it seemed to fit.

That said, Firefly and Farscape do the job better than B7, and it's not just because of the budget.

Strongly disagree with that, though only seen a few eps of Firefly (and the Serenity movie).

 

[Gordon_4]

Yeah, I get that, but what are "Angles?" Is that a fancy word for English/British?

If we're on the subject, yeah, I've seen Blake's 7, it wouldn't surprise me if Farscape took inspiration from it. That said, Firefly and Farscape do the job better than B7, and it's not just because of the budget.

I’ve seen Farscape and Firefly, and not one on either show is fit to shine Paul Darrow’s shoes.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I’ve seen Farscape and Firefly, and not one on either show is fit to shine Paul Darrow’s shoes.

I would say that everything I've seen Paul Darrow in (two Doctor Who stories and one Rivals of Sherlock Holmes ep), he was mediocre at best, excepting Blake's 7.

 

[SupahEwok]

Yeah, I get that, but what are "Angles?" Is that a fancy word for English/British?

Angles -> Ængaland -> England. Original name for the Germanic people known as Anglos who settled in Britain.

 

[Eacaraxe]

Angles -> Ængaland -> England. Original name for the Germanic people known as Anglos who settled in Britain.

That's a cute response to an oblique reference.