I find it because CD Projekt Red is generally more mature than Kojima, judging from what I've seen. Kojima tends to be way more silly and less serious than CDPR.
Why is The Witcher allowed to portray heterosexual male sexuality while Kojima gets grilled over it?
- Thread starter BarryMcCociner
- Start date
That is a very relevant observation. Also relevant is that this is a moment of relative weakness for Kojima, since Konami gave him the boot. "He's on his own! Quick, let's pounce!" Then there is the whole strategic and symbolic significance for gaming that Japan has, and Poland at the moment doesn't.wizzy555 said:
Plus "Kojima" is easy enough to spell for even the lazier outrage mongers. With the Polish folks, you have to make an effort.
Eh. I love both series, but they both have issues.GrumbleGrump said:
Kojima deals with subjects like PTSD, Child Soldiers, Privacy Abolition and Censorship as used by a totalitarian power, the cost of Dutifully serving your cause, Soldiers not being able to stop being soldiers and so on and so fort. Before Spec-ops The Line, the MGS series was the only anti war game series of note in the industry.
Kojima, however, needs an editor who can tone down his ramblings. Several of the games narratives could have been toned down significantly if it wasn't for his fondness of verbose and knowledgeable characters who take any chance to expound on their particular knowledgebase. Show don't tell Kojima.
Then there is the combination of comedy and drama. It's a very common pacing tool in Japanese media that can work wonderfully but kojima is rather hamfisted with. He has the general idea right, to intersperse comedic exchanges or events among the the serious drama.
The Witcher series also tackles serious stuff, but they tend to be for flavor and aren't explored in any meaningful way. The world of The Witcher is racist, but there is no exploration of that theme. The humans hate non-humans and vice versa. Done, fill in the rest withc cliched examples of racism. It occassionally touches on rape, but it's never impactful, it just happens. The world is a political minefield, but ultimately it doesn't affect geralt, as geralt is in it for himself and his friends... any outcome works as long as it works in his favor.
Saying that, because no topic is focused on to the point clearly defining right or wrong, and how every choice has both a negative and positive outcome, the world of the witcher becomes extremely grey. Geralt is more an Anti hero then a hero. If he does the "right" thing, it's usually incidental to his own ambitions.
I think their attempts at humor are more endearing, those little character moments that make you smile, ranging from witty comments, comedic pauses (there aren't enough of these in games) or just plain goofiness.
The Witcher handles sex like an adolescent would, gleefully but without substance. The first game had that awful card collecting shit, best forgotten. The sequel put more effort into it, but barring a few particular scenes, most of them were just gratuitous sex fantasies for Geralt to get involved in.
Which is fine, really. The Geralt in the books is fairly promiscuous and sex doesn't always have to be meaningful. However, much like kojimas use of comedy, the majority of sex scenes undermine the more serious overtones far more harshly then the comedy ones do.
Also, the witcher can be VERY silly:
And then theirs the time Geralt wakes up partially naked on the riverside where someone tells you that you tried to sail to paradise on whores arses.
Maybe it's because Kojima explicitly stated that Quiet would an antithesis of female characters...
[Tweet t=https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/statuses/376424191664222208]
[Tweet t=https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/statuses/376424308077109248]
[Tweet t=https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/statuses/376424398023962624]
and then goes and makes a figurine with squishable boobs. Even if he's right about the character in the actual game, that figurine detracts from any point he might be trying to make. I mean, I love Kojima, eccentricities and all, but there's definitely some dissonance there.
And let's not pretend that CD Projekt Red have never been criticised on this issue either. In fact, one of the main criticisms of one of the Witcher games (the original, I think) was the way it treated sleeping with women as a card collecting minigame.
[Tweet t=https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/statuses/376424191664222208]
[Tweet t=https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/statuses/376424308077109248]
[Tweet t=https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/statuses/376424398023962624]
and then goes and makes a figurine with squishable boobs. Even if he's right about the character in the actual game, that figurine detracts from any point he might be trying to make. I mean, I love Kojima, eccentricities and all, but there's definitely some dissonance there.
And let's not pretend that CD Projekt Red have never been criticised on this issue either. In fact, one of the main criticisms of one of the Witcher games (the original, I think) was the way it treated sleeping with women as a card collecting minigame.
Well, I imagine Metal Gear is both more successful and more famous then The Witcher, so that's probably why it receives more criticism. Also, CD Project has built up a lot of good will through consumer friendly practices.
Personally, I'm pretty critical of both. They have their merits, and they should be acknowledged, but their representation of sexual violence, and sexuality in general, is woefully poor. Honestly, for all their merits, I find both rather creepy.
Personally, I'm pretty critical of both. They have their merits, and they should be acknowledged, but their representation of sexual violence, and sexuality in general, is woefully poor. Honestly, for all their merits, I find both rather creepy.
CDPR don't take the bait as much. They make a couple comments each time, and ignore all the other bullshit. Kojima likes to actively antagonise people complaining about this stuff.
You know what question comes to my mind whenever I see a thread like this?
"Why do you care?"
Now, I don't think I mean that quite as condescendingly as it sounds, but honestly, the only impression it ever gives me is "I'm outraged that people are outraged!"
If you can't see how an action figure with squishy boobs is different than a narrative (poorly) tackling issues of sexual violence or stuffing in sexuality for the sake of appearing like a more "normal" world, then I don't think random strangers on the internet are going to be able to explain it. And if you do understand the difference, then this entire thread is just being built on the dishonest premise of trying to get some sort of "gotcha!" on people you don't like (which, to be honest, is what I'm getting from that "consistency from the masses" line anyway; let's just disregard that the audiences for Metal Gear Solid and The Witcher are probably massively different, and that the people into both who are criticizing MGS are probably the same people who were criticizing The Witcher for its portrayal of sex and everything).
"Why do you care?"
Now, I don't think I mean that quite as condescendingly as it sounds, but honestly, the only impression it ever gives me is "I'm outraged that people are outraged!"
If you can't see how an action figure with squishy boobs is different than a narrative (poorly) tackling issues of sexual violence or stuffing in sexuality for the sake of appearing like a more "normal" world, then I don't think random strangers on the internet are going to be able to explain it. And if you do understand the difference, then this entire thread is just being built on the dishonest premise of trying to get some sort of "gotcha!" on people you don't like (which, to be honest, is what I'm getting from that "consistency from the masses" line anyway; let's just disregard that the audiences for Metal Gear Solid and The Witcher are probably massively different, and that the people into both who are criticizing MGS are probably the same people who were criticizing The Witcher for its portrayal of sex and everything).
Alright, let's be real here. Kojima's stories are entertaining, but they're not high art. The man can't actually write plots beyond throwing together the standard war is bad cliches and tying them up with sci-fi nonsense. Again they're entertaining, but not exactly a "meaningful and provoking narrative."BarryMcCociner said:
Anyways, people did get mad at the Witcher over it's stuff. But it was a lot less brazen, and the devs were smart enough to recluse themselves from the conversation instead of trying to defend it (very, very poorly I might add) like Kojima did. Also, I mean, boobie toys. Nothing in the Witcher really goes beyond the status of "badly executed", but those figures were pretty much just a stupid idea overall.
Fun fact: The Big Boss model has a squishy butt and pecs made with the same material as Quiet's boobs.
Its all about exposure. MGS is a beloved and well known franchise, so people will attack it because it will bring THEM more attention.
In comparison, no one gives a shit about the Witcher series. Though there was a big palavar about the "sex cards" in the first game.
Its all about exposure. MGS is a beloved and well known franchise, so people will attack it because it will bring THEM more attention.
In comparison, no one gives a shit about the Witcher series. Though there was a big palavar about the "sex cards" in the first game.
Same reason a Batgirl cover gets viral outrage for "rape culture" while Family Guy keeps Quagmire around without shame: outrage is trendy, and it's just a mater of what catches on and what gets noticed.
This pretty much sums up my feeling on the matter.shrekfan246 said:
If you want to buy the boobie figure, buy the boobie figure.
No amount of prepubescent bitching from the Guardian (It's sad that I have to actually say that about a Pulitzer prize winning site, though that was for something...you know, important) or whatever trashy tabloid is going to make that manufacturer, especially if they're Japanese or making Japanese products, stop making it if it's financially viable for them to do so.
So buy the boobie figure. Squeeze 'em to your heart's content and ignore the whining puritanical fucks who've been given an undeserved podium from which they can broadcast their pathetic first-world whingefests.
Buy that shit and let them know there's a market? There will be enough boobie figures to fill even the greediest dragon's hoard...as we're seeing, since that figure is apparently selling quite well, as it's out of stock in the few places I've bothered to look.
I sort of oversimplified my stance on The Witcher. It's not a shallow game, if that's what you think I'm saying. I didn't want to go into depth about it as, being two 30-50 hour games there is a lot to talk about (whereas MGS is more focused and trimmed... despite Kojimas frantic and verbose writing and direction).Charcharo said:Good observation on Japanese comedy/drama combo.Ragsnstitches said:
Though id say that you missed the depth and messages of the Witcher. The commentary, the exploration...
Then again seems like for some reason mostly people from Eastern Europe seem to get that stuff (both in the books and the games)
I've Read 2 Witcher books. The short story compilation "The Last Wish" and Blood of Elves a few years ago, which were the only translated paperback books available in my local book store. The Last Wish suffered from shoddy translations, but Blood of Elves was a good read. Currently these 2, Time of Contempt and Baptism of Fire are translated. The Swallows Tower and The Lady of the Lake haven't been translated yet but are due in 2016 and 2017 respectively. The Sword of Destiny's English translation is due out this year (if it isn't out already).
There very well may be some cultural difference that eludes western European readers, some significant historical influence or contemporary social mindset that offers insight into The Witcher saga. Possibly something lost in translation.
I'm curious though as to what messages I might have missed. I'm aware that characters, events and various references to the books in the game are lost on me due to not having access to more then half of The Witcher saga. I read the ingame codex as much as I can but there is only so much I can get from them.
I have a feeling that a big part of Kojima getting more flak is because everytime he goes to shift the tone of one of his games, he blows the trannie through the engine block.
His work has more drastic and jarring tonal shifts than the Street Fighter movie starring Jean Claude Van Damme.
His work has more drastic and jarring tonal shifts than the Street Fighter movie starring Jean Claude Van Damme.
People don't understand what is normal for Japanese media. Japanese media is one of huge tonal shifts, between serious stuff and incredibly dark stuff. People apply Western standards on sexuality to Japanese created characters like Quiet. Additionally sexualised characters in Metal Gear always have a reason for it - see EVA and Paz for two sexualised characters who are sexualised on their own terms to manipulate male characters.
Also if the Chico = Quiet theory is true then the people who are pissed off are going to feel pretty stupid.
Also if the Chico = Quiet theory is true then the people who are pissed off are going to feel pretty stupid.
Oh is this about the action figure with the fun bags?
Hell, at least Hideo was honest! He designed the character to be a sex object, and the action figure reflects that.
Props for being consistent if nothing else.
Hell, at least Hideo was honest! He designed the character to be a sex object, and the action figure reflects that.
Props for being consistent if nothing else.