I really don't care what demographic the show is for as long as it's well done and doesn't talk down to it's audience I couldn't care less if it's for adults or kids.
Why is western animation just for kids movies?
- Thread starter TheRiddler
- Start date
Western animation isn't just for kids movies.
Sure there are kids movies that are animated, but many animated movies are targeted just as much toward a wider audience. Why on earth do you think the Dreamworks "snark" movies were so popular... Not because kids were in on the joke.
There is hardly any animated drama, because animation lacks the finesse of live-action acting to make it as effective. Sure, there are adult geared animated dramas here and there, like Persepolis, A Scanner Darkly, and Princess, but there the medium is typically used as a twist.
Honestly, I really don't care. If I want adult oriented animation there's anime, and if I want more lighthearted animation there's Disney and Pixar. I really have no need for the latter two to start making animated versions of No Country for Old Men orThere Will Be Blood.
And let's not forget that videogames are also animated and have a wide variety of adult themes.
Sure there are kids movies that are animated, but many animated movies are targeted just as much toward a wider audience. Why on earth do you think the Dreamworks "snark" movies were so popular... Not because kids were in on the joke.
There is hardly any animated drama, because animation lacks the finesse of live-action acting to make it as effective. Sure, there are adult geared animated dramas here and there, like Persepolis, A Scanner Darkly, and Princess, but there the medium is typically used as a twist.
Honestly, I really don't care. If I want adult oriented animation there's anime, and if I want more lighthearted animation there's Disney and Pixar. I really have no need for the latter two to start making animated versions of No Country for Old Men orThere Will Be Blood.
And let's not forget that videogames are also animated and have a wide variety of adult themes.
Edit...
Just re-read the title.
Yeah, You're right, I can't actually think of any animated films aimed at adults in the West. Not sure why that is. Nor do I really consider it a 'problem' as such. It is a niche, however, that some bright young producer could probably fill and make a bucketload of money on.
Just re-read the title.
Yeah, You're right, I can't actually think of any animated films aimed at adults in the West. Not sure why that is. Nor do I really consider it a 'problem' as such. It is a niche, however, that some bright young producer could probably fill and make a bucketload of money on.
There's a lot of what could be called "mature" anime that stays far away from what Elfen Lied does.ShipofFools said:
Baccano! is a post WW2 mafia based anime with a nice spin on immortality and a heavy focus on flashbacks. There's a few characters who are pretty fucked up, but the cast is so big and varied that the fucked up guys get about as much screen time as any other.
While I've only read some of the manga Beserk seems pretty good. There's a lot of medieval conflict and war going on that help build the world. It seems like it enjoys pressing the rape button a bit much though so avoid it if that's not your thing.
Cowboy Bebop isn't adult in the focus of gore and swearing and the such, but the slower pacing and more ambiguous resolutions to most episodes certainly puts it in the "probably not for children" group.
Oh, and even though the studio does "family friendly" rather than "adult-centred", go check out Studio Ghibli. Haven't seem a film of theirs I haven't liked.
While I've only read some of the manga Beserk seems pretty good. There's a lot of medieval conflict and war going on that help build the world. It seems like it enjoys pressing the rape button a bit much though so avoid it if that's not your thing.
Cowboy Bebop isn't adult in the focus of gore and swearing and the such, but the slower pacing and more ambiguous resolutions to most episodes certainly puts it in the "probably not for children" group.
Oh, and even though the studio does "family friendly" rather than "adult-centred", go check out Studio Ghibli. Haven't seem a film of theirs I haven't liked.
This is assuming that you basically don't watch any anime though, you might've seen these already.
Because the truly immature, perceive maturity as anything kids aren't 'allowed to see or do'. (And yet do on a second to second basis, but we're talking about privileged, middle income, babied kids here)
Smoking, drugs, sex, swearing, etc. And assume since those are the confines for a 'kids movie' and animation has been used for decades to portray many things to children in a 'soft' way, that that is how it should stay.
So alot of corporate heads get together who've never taken a day out in their lives to contemplate and realize what the medium is capable of simply go 'oh those cartoons are mainly seen by children demographic' no money should ever go toward a Pg-13+ rated film or series in animation because nooooo one will watch it and noooo money will be made. Despite animation studios pushing the boundries of their confines for years against this horribly wrong stereotype.
AND YET, what does come out of the confines of 'no sex, no drugs, no smoking or swearing' I can still enjoy. Avatar the last Airbender as you used as an example, has this timeless 'harry potter-all ages can enjoy' kind of vibe to it. And I almost don't want animation to 'loose it's innocence' entirely. I mean Avatar wasn't entirely 'sexless' as the media would call it. It dealt with death, love, some very screwed up familial issues, mental psychosis and dealt with it in a way kids would probably not pick up on.
Confines are ...bad yes, but if you self impose those confines (PG rating for example) and really push what can be done with it, you REALLY can create something great if your heart is in it.
However I don't like that these restrictions are socially and corporately placed, Anime is the only bastion of animation for older audiences and it's astounded me that western industries have been so slow on the uptake.
Smoking, drugs, sex, swearing, etc. And assume since those are the confines for a 'kids movie' and animation has been used for decades to portray many things to children in a 'soft' way, that that is how it should stay.
So alot of corporate heads get together who've never taken a day out in their lives to contemplate and realize what the medium is capable of simply go 'oh those cartoons are mainly seen by children demographic' no money should ever go toward a Pg-13+ rated film or series in animation because nooooo one will watch it and noooo money will be made. Despite animation studios pushing the boundries of their confines for years against this horribly wrong stereotype.
AND YET, what does come out of the confines of 'no sex, no drugs, no smoking or swearing' I can still enjoy. Avatar the last Airbender as you used as an example, has this timeless 'harry potter-all ages can enjoy' kind of vibe to it. And I almost don't want animation to 'loose it's innocence' entirely. I mean Avatar wasn't entirely 'sexless' as the media would call it. It dealt with death, love, some very screwed up familial issues, mental psychosis and dealt with it in a way kids would probably not pick up on.
Confines are ...bad yes, but if you self impose those confines (PG rating for example) and really push what can be done with it, you REALLY can create something great if your heart is in it.
However I don't like that these restrictions are socially and corporately placed, Anime is the only bastion of animation for older audiences and it's astounded me that western industries have been so slow on the uptake.
There's an animated movie called Chico And Rita, which was very well recieved by critics and aimed solely at adults. I haven't seen it yet, but it seems very promising. But aside from that, i have to agree, there isn't happening in the world of animation if you don't want to watch shows aimed at children, comedy or superhero stuff.
I saw some Studio Gibbli films, yeah. They are like Japanese Disney films, haha. (That is a good thing)hazabaza1 said:
They exist. But it's rare and/or obscure.
As mentioned, 'Heavy metal' is quite an old one.
'A Scanner Darkly' also springs to mind - it's rotoscoped, but still technically a form of animation.
There was also a swedish thing a while back, but since I can't remember the name, it's a little difficult to say much about it.
Things like this exist, but they're very uncommon, or generally hidden away from the mainstream.
As mentioned, 'Heavy metal' is quite an old one.
'A Scanner Darkly' also springs to mind - it's rotoscoped, but still technically a form of animation.
There was also a swedish thing a while back, but since I can't remember the name, it's a little difficult to say much about it.
Things like this exist, but they're very uncommon, or generally hidden away from the mainstream.
How about something more Recent, I saw Heavy Metal in the Theater with my Dad (friend was a projectionist, don't ask.)and that was 1981.Dirty Hipsters said:
While not 'adult' as such, I'd suggest some stuff like Haibane Renmei, or Aria (keep in mind there's at least 2 series called aria. One is violent, the other is one of the least violent things I've ever seen.) if you feel inclined towards such things.ShipofFools said:
I can think of some other things too, but they start to become increasingly violent and, well, depressing really. (Not in the way Elfen lied is though...) - (well, quite a few aren't at all depressing, but some of my favourites are pretty sad...)
Animations for adults, sure:
American Pop: it's the story of pop music in the USA seen through the eyes of a few generations of a Jewish family that was expelled from Russia, it starts with Blues and ends in Heavy Metal (to the tune of Pat Benatar
), it also has a "Janis Joplin lady going under another name" in the animation.
Heavy Metal: wonderful animation, introduced certain technics that even DISNEY hadn't used yet. It's based upon the Heavy Metal comics (Metal Hurlant when it was first created in Europe, if I'm correct). It has one central (the evil of the Loc Nar) that is carried through various stories, all penned by different artists and written by different authors. LOTS of erotism (or downright porn back when it was released...). There's a Heavy Metal 2000, but though it is also adult oriented it is a very weak animation in every aspect.
Fantasia: not so sure about this, it's a Disney animation, but it's only classic music with beautiful animations to follow the mood. I'm putting it here because I remember getting this as a gift from my parents when I was a child, and... I hated it, there was only one sequence with Mickey, and even then it didn't make sense, there was no story being told (there sorta is, but it's driven to suit the music), it wasn't funny AT ALL, no action, no nothing. My father on the other hand loved it lol Nowadays I find it to be a true relic and a masterpiece of western animation.
With super heroes:
The Dark Knight Returns (lots of parents bought this unaware of the content, then complained about the extremely depressive tone and level of violence in a Batman story lol)
The Flashpoint Paradox: forget the violence, it's just too damn hard for most kids to grasp what's going on.
Batman: Year One. Frank Miller, enough said ;p
Spawn: it was an HBO TV show, I enjoyed it way more than the comics lol
As far as comedy shows go... Space Ghost Cost to Cost, Harvey Birdman Attorney at Law, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Family Guy, Sealab 2021, so on...
As you said though, they are few, and mostly in a gray area so kids can enjoy something out of it. It's a cultural thing. I'm from Brazil and the culture here regarding animation is pretty much the same. I heard it say that Akira was the first animation intended for adults to be shown in theaters, until then animations were things for children, and the west was caught quite by surprise to see Akira with it's extremely high level of violence and complex story line, the thing being, Japan never really cultivated this culture, for them it's simply another media to tell a story and, at times, it might be a more suited media, that's why we get more "adult" animations from that part of the globe.
American Pop: it's the story of pop music in the USA seen through the eyes of a few generations of a Jewish family that was expelled from Russia, it starts with Blues and ends in Heavy Metal (to the tune of Pat Benatar
), it also has a "Janis Joplin lady going under another name" in the animation.Heavy Metal: wonderful animation, introduced certain technics that even DISNEY hadn't used yet. It's based upon the Heavy Metal comics (Metal Hurlant when it was first created in Europe, if I'm correct). It has one central (the evil of the Loc Nar) that is carried through various stories, all penned by different artists and written by different authors. LOTS of erotism (or downright porn back when it was released...). There's a Heavy Metal 2000, but though it is also adult oriented it is a very weak animation in every aspect.
Fantasia: not so sure about this, it's a Disney animation, but it's only classic music with beautiful animations to follow the mood. I'm putting it here because I remember getting this as a gift from my parents when I was a child, and... I hated it, there was only one sequence with Mickey, and even then it didn't make sense, there was no story being told (there sorta is, but it's driven to suit the music), it wasn't funny AT ALL, no action, no nothing. My father on the other hand loved it lol Nowadays I find it to be a true relic and a masterpiece of western animation.
With super heroes:
The Dark Knight Returns (lots of parents bought this unaware of the content, then complained about the extremely depressive tone and level of violence in a Batman story lol)
The Flashpoint Paradox: forget the violence, it's just too damn hard for most kids to grasp what's going on.
Batman: Year One. Frank Miller, enough said ;p
Spawn: it was an HBO TV show, I enjoyed it way more than the comics lol
As far as comedy shows go... Space Ghost Cost to Cost, Harvey Birdman Attorney at Law, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Family Guy, Sealab 2021, so on...
As you said though, they are few, and mostly in a gray area so kids can enjoy something out of it. It's a cultural thing. I'm from Brazil and the culture here regarding animation is pretty much the same. I heard it say that Akira was the first animation intended for adults to be shown in theaters, until then animations were things for children, and the west was caught quite by surprise to see Akira with it's extremely high level of violence and complex story line, the thing being, Japan never really cultivated this culture, for them it's simply another media to tell a story and, at times, it might be a more suited media, that's why we get more "adult" animations from that part of the globe.
Too many tv execs in the west think in terms of trends and only trends. They don't think technical. In the East or on the indie side of the West, toon line art is only a means of delivery it has no ultimate bearing on what sort of entertainment should be made from it, nor the traditional opinion that it's exclusive to a kids market.TheRiddler said:
It is just our culture, bright colours and fantastical settings are just more kiddie friendly... Adults like grim, dark, depressing settings. They like the news, breaking bad, game of thrones, Dexter and Warhammer!
Nerds like brightly coloured stuff, MLP, anime and games (how many times have you heard complaints about grey, brown colour schemes?). Plus Nerds love the fantastical, why we play games, play D&D, watch things like anime and LOTR....
Japan doesn't have the same culture, it loves the fantastical and bright colours, which is why so many people "weeaboos" and the like.
Nerds like brightly coloured stuff, MLP, anime and games (how many times have you heard complaints about grey, brown colour schemes?). Plus Nerds love the fantastical, why we play games, play D&D, watch things like anime and LOTR....
Japan doesn't have the same culture, it loves the fantastical and bright colours, which is why so many people "weeaboos" and the like.
We do have adult cartoons. We have a bunch of them. They just aren't as prevalent as kids cartoons, or as profitable. That said I really want to create a hard sci-fi drama (with some action naturally) for adults that is animated. I think we can do with a cartoon that isn't strictly comedy or adult themed.
The funny thing is, this is pretty much the same way it is over in Japan. The vast majority of all anime produced is children's fare, and what gets localized abroad usually come from the late night animation blocks for adults. In many cases, adult anime series have fared better in foreign markets because of the larger audience for such stuff.BodomBeachChild said:
Western animation is largely marketed to kids(I say largely because shows like The Simpsons, Family Guy, and South Park have been aimed at mature audiences for decades) for two main reasons. The first is that the media they draw from, largely comics, were aimed primarily at children and young adults. The second, and much more important reasons, is Walt Disney. He made cartoons for kids, and his company made a boat load of money doing. For 20 years, virtually the only name in western animation was Disney, and for the next 20 years, Disney was still The Name in western animation. They was so successful for so long, that other animation companies are copying Disney, right down to the demographic. In contrast, while those adult animation shows I mentioned earlier were successful, they saw no where near the profits of Disney, and that's not even mentioning how many adult oriented animation shows crashed and burned(striperella, heavy metal, gary the rat, just to name a few) so from a business perspective, there is more incentive to keep your animation departments cranking out kid stuff than to try to be successful in an adult market that grew up knowing cartoons are for kids.
Pretty interesting even if it does jump on some of the bigger controversy waves. That said, i love the summation of anime: it will continue to pander to increasingly small demographics until all that is left is porn.Alek_the_Great said:
Isn't that just the way all things will end? You start out with a nice idea, and by the end: porn.