And why? Because I'm skeptical of the idea that going software only will automatically make Nintendo more money. I think pretty much any argument in favor of it can be summed up as "I want to play their games, but not enough to buy their consoles".lacktheknack said:
Why should Nintendo go third party?
- Thread starter VG_Addict
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Well, erm, there you are, the 'I want to play their games' part. From an objective business standpoint, it's a good idea. You can't just ban a point from the discussion when it's patently legitimate.VG_Addict said:
You have an untapped market in people who want to play Nintendo games and would do so if they weren't shut out by what is essentially an entry-fee for doing so: having to shell out for a Nintendo console. You can't just dismiss that market by saying that people who play on Xboxes and PS3s want different things. There's definitely a good deal of folks out there who would appreciate being able to whip out Super Smash Bros or Mario Kart when they've got a group over, and I'd be willing to bet that there's plenty of people who'd want to play Nintendo games solo too. A fondness for GTA V or CoD or just about any damn thing out there doesn't rule out the possibility of someone liking a Nintendo game.
It's not like they'll even be risking much as far as their present audience goes, either. Nintendo fans want to play Nintendo games. They'll play them on whatever Nintendo puts them out on. That lot are pretty much a guaranteed market. Going third-party doesn't hurt that market, at least not if they do it tastefully and respectfully by letting people know well in advance of the next console generation so everyone feels they've gotten their money's worth out of their wii-Us.
AND YET THEY'RE NOT SELLING. Their "advantage" is doing not very much right now.VG_Addict said:
If you want to run a business, you need to know when to let go of your advantages. Holding onto an "advantage" that's killing you is terrible business sense.
Why do you quote the same post again?VG_Addict said:
Also, if enough people argue that they don't wanna pay for a console but want to play Nintendo games, then there's your audience right there. There's no downsides at the moment to going multiplatform beyond a miniscule drop in Wii U sales (which weren't selling anyways).
The only way holding onto exclusivity would be good for them is if they put out a killer app that single-handedly generates demand for the console as well as the game. And, quite frankly, I don't think the new Super Smash Bros. game is going to be that.
You horribly underestimate how fast money vanishes if you spook your investors.VG_Addict said:
And yes, riding out a bad console generation without doing anything will spook your investors. A lot.
I mean, you propose that they sit on their thumbs and operate at loss on purpose for years!?
Now who's making awful business decisions?
They can't just drop the Wii U. That will piss off customers. I'm starting to think YOU'RE the one who doesn't know anything about business.lacktheknack said:
And they ARE doing something. I already listed what they're doing. It's not my fault you didn't listen.
Locate the part where I said they should drop the Wii U.VG_Addict said:
Alternatively, tell me how "do something" means "drop the Wii U".
If you can't do that, consider that "doing something" might include "boost revenue by going multiplatform".
Unless, of course, you refuse to view that as valid. If this is the case, please never make another Nintendo thread again. You know our answer, and there's no earthly reason to keep asking beyond purposefully trying to piss people off and be antagonistic.
You keep suggesting this is a bad argument.VG_Addict said:
If this is a popular complaint (which it would seem to be, going by this thread), then why is it a bad argument?
You can't just dismiss and hand-wave away a common argument like this.
Because making the same mistakes again and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity?VG_Addict said:
You really need to stop strawmanning and putting words into people's mouths, if you want people to take you seriously.VG_Addict said:
They could make a better console next time. They seem to at least be learning from one mistake; they plan an on-demand service tied to IDs across software.IceForce said:
http://www.joystiq.com/2014/01/29/nintendo-envisions-on-demand-service-tied-to-ids-across-hardware/
And being popular doesn't make something right.
You again? Didn't you get your answer in any of the last 5 or so Nintendo-related threads you made? Well, whatever.
I don't think it would be good for Nintendo to go 3rd party at this point (not until they really start losing money) because they're still making money from their games and the 3DS, but I would like it if they did, because then I wouldn't have to pay $300 (in addition to the full $60 per game because their games don't drop in price for freaking years) just to play the handful of console-exclusive 1st party franchises I'm still interested in.
I don't think it would be good for Nintendo to go 3rd party at this point (not until they really start losing money) because they're still making money from their games and the 3DS, but I would like it if they did, because then I wouldn't have to pay $300 (in addition to the full $60 per game because their games don't drop in price for freaking years) just to play the handful of console-exclusive 1st party franchises I'm still interested in.
It's because Nintendo consoles have been quite incompetent in comparison to other gaming platforms the past recent years.
There once was a time that buying a new Nintendo console meant that you would be able to play all the cool AAA 3rd party games of the market,that they would have the best multiplayer experience,as Nintendo was the only one who cared on adding 4 controller ports and split screen back then,plus Nintendo's first party games that were quite innovative,and their consoles had the best graphics.
Today their consoles are the weakest home machines for gaming there are,those who will buy only a Nintendo console will loose even the best-selling 3rd party franchises,the graphics of Nintendo games are also still way behind those of the other consoles,multiplayer of Nintendo games is crippled because of the lack of proper online,and they aren't that much innovative any more.
People bought NES,SNES,N64 and even GAMECUBE as their one and only console in which they would be playing all their games for about 5-6 years. Wii wasn't like that. Wii was a secondary,supplementary console that people would buy only for Nintendo's first party games. But at least it had some brand new experiences that got people excited with all the motion controls stuff. But WiiU games doesn't even have that feeling of excitement for a new experience. Having an inventory menu on a second screen doesn't excite people.It would be more practical to just access it with a single button press while still looking at the main screen.
On a list,if you were buying SNES,N64 or Gamecube you knew that:
# The games on that machine will have the best graphics in comparison to other consoles of the same age.
# The games on that machine will be supporting multiplayer functions the most.
# You would be able to play the best 3rd party AAA series on that platform.(with the exception of Rockstar and id Software games for the Gamecube)
# You would be first to play with new cool technologies and gameplay features like force feedback,split screen,3d environments,motion controls...
Slowly but steadily the above points the brand had been associated with during the decade of the 90s and early 2000s,have been diminished.
1) First you got partial 3rd party support with Gamecube,with id Software and Rockstar snob the platform
2) It also failed to adopt to a new standard for multiplayer,the system link connection that Xbox introduced
3) When the Wii came,Nintendo lagged even more to keep up with expanding multiplayer,by not having proper online infrastracure.
4) With the Wii Nintendo did a 180% turn and rejected graphics as something substantial,while in the past it was leading the hardware race. Many Nintendo fans that valued graphics left Nintendo at that point.
5) The Wii also was left far behind in advancements and new standards when it comes to multiplayer,and especially online.
6) The Wii was also left behind with other advancements like DLCs and achievements.
7) With the WiiU thus far Nintendo seems to be loosing one more thing that made past Nintendo consoles desirable: It lacks some kind of a new technology or unique revolutionary gameplay mechanic that would excite people.
As it is obvious,all the reasons people considered Nintendo consoles THE consoles back then,aren't there today.
Since the middle Gamecube days Nintendo stopped advancing and adopting to new trends and standards of the industry.
They did tried something new and brought their own standard with the Wii which was motion controls though. And that was what made Wii the success it was. But WiiU doesn't even have that.
As such,with most of the reasons people valued Nintendo consoles missing,people stopped valuing Nintendo consoles as they did in the past. Nintendo consoles are so incompetent,that not people not only aren't excited for them,but they actually see them as a hindrance. The points they could use to justify buying a Nintendo console are so few if any that people just doesn't buy WiiUs,without that meaning they wouldn't be willing to play some of the games Nintendo is making for their consoles. People see WiiU as a thing they really don't see value in it other than playing Nintendo's first party games,but apparently a large percentage of those people aren't so fanatic with Nintendo franchises to justify buying a full price console (WiiU) just for playing one two or maximum 3 franchises. There are people who like Mario,then people who like Zelda,and then people who like Metroid. Perhaps there are also people who like some of the less popular franchises of Nintendo. But most people are fans of these franchises.
So if you put all these down and make some lists,you have WiiU feeling as a console with one of the worst value for money ratios ever.
All the other platforms get these non exclusive nice franchises:
Dragon Age
The Elder Scrolls
Fallout
Wolfenstein
Doom
Far Cry
Crysis
Serious Sam
Duke Nukem
Battlefield
Mortal Kombat
Left 4 Dead
Dishonored
The Witcher
Tomb Raider
Dark Souls
Metro
Saints Row
Grand Theft Auto
And even more that I'm currently forgetting,that WiiU just isn't going to see.
So people might love Mario,Zelda and Metroid,but when other platforms offer so many more good AAA franchises and Nintendo only has a handful,it just doesn't feel justifiable to pay a premium console price just to play such a few games.
And Nintendo's idea of making 3 Mario games per year isn't helping. They need MORE and NEW franchises. Ideally for people with different tastes.
People had been waiting and asking Nintendo to FIX problems since the Gamecube era,but Nintendo keeps ignoring them,lagging way behind,failing to conform to standards,and in turn loosing support by devs/pubs and eventually gamers.
Nintendo might be making some of the best software,(arguably) but their hardware and online infrastructure is laughable,and their introvert business relations cost them.
There once was a time that buying a new Nintendo console meant that you would be able to play all the cool AAA 3rd party games of the market,that they would have the best multiplayer experience,as Nintendo was the only one who cared on adding 4 controller ports and split screen back then,plus Nintendo's first party games that were quite innovative,and their consoles had the best graphics.
Today their consoles are the weakest home machines for gaming there are,those who will buy only a Nintendo console will loose even the best-selling 3rd party franchises,the graphics of Nintendo games are also still way behind those of the other consoles,multiplayer of Nintendo games is crippled because of the lack of proper online,and they aren't that much innovative any more.
People bought NES,SNES,N64 and even GAMECUBE as their one and only console in which they would be playing all their games for about 5-6 years. Wii wasn't like that. Wii was a secondary,supplementary console that people would buy only for Nintendo's first party games. But at least it had some brand new experiences that got people excited with all the motion controls stuff. But WiiU games doesn't even have that feeling of excitement for a new experience. Having an inventory menu on a second screen doesn't excite people.It would be more practical to just access it with a single button press while still looking at the main screen.
On a list,if you were buying SNES,N64 or Gamecube you knew that:
# The games on that machine will have the best graphics in comparison to other consoles of the same age.
# The games on that machine will be supporting multiplayer functions the most.
# You would be able to play the best 3rd party AAA series on that platform.(with the exception of Rockstar and id Software games for the Gamecube)
# You would be first to play with new cool technologies and gameplay features like force feedback,split screen,3d environments,motion controls...
Slowly but steadily the above points the brand had been associated with during the decade of the 90s and early 2000s,have been diminished.
1) First you got partial 3rd party support with Gamecube,with id Software and Rockstar snob the platform
2) It also failed to adopt to a new standard for multiplayer,the system link connection that Xbox introduced
3) When the Wii came,Nintendo lagged even more to keep up with expanding multiplayer,by not having proper online infrastracure.
4) With the Wii Nintendo did a 180% turn and rejected graphics as something substantial,while in the past it was leading the hardware race. Many Nintendo fans that valued graphics left Nintendo at that point.
5) The Wii also was left far behind in advancements and new standards when it comes to multiplayer,and especially online.
6) The Wii was also left behind with other advancements like DLCs and achievements.
7) With the WiiU thus far Nintendo seems to be loosing one more thing that made past Nintendo consoles desirable: It lacks some kind of a new technology or unique revolutionary gameplay mechanic that would excite people.
As it is obvious,all the reasons people considered Nintendo consoles THE consoles back then,aren't there today.
Since the middle Gamecube days Nintendo stopped advancing and adopting to new trends and standards of the industry.
They did tried something new and brought their own standard with the Wii which was motion controls though. And that was what made Wii the success it was. But WiiU doesn't even have that.
As such,with most of the reasons people valued Nintendo consoles missing,people stopped valuing Nintendo consoles as they did in the past. Nintendo consoles are so incompetent,that not people not only aren't excited for them,but they actually see them as a hindrance. The points they could use to justify buying a Nintendo console are so few if any that people just doesn't buy WiiUs,without that meaning they wouldn't be willing to play some of the games Nintendo is making for their consoles. People see WiiU as a thing they really don't see value in it other than playing Nintendo's first party games,but apparently a large percentage of those people aren't so fanatic with Nintendo franchises to justify buying a full price console (WiiU) just for playing one two or maximum 3 franchises. There are people who like Mario,then people who like Zelda,and then people who like Metroid. Perhaps there are also people who like some of the less popular franchises of Nintendo. But most people are fans of these franchises.
So if you put all these down and make some lists,you have WiiU feeling as a console with one of the worst value for money ratios ever.
All the other platforms get these non exclusive nice franchises:
Dragon Age
The Elder Scrolls
Fallout
Wolfenstein
Doom
Far Cry
Crysis
Serious Sam
Duke Nukem
Battlefield
Mortal Kombat
Left 4 Dead
Dishonored
The Witcher
Tomb Raider
Dark Souls
Metro
Saints Row
Grand Theft Auto
And even more that I'm currently forgetting,that WiiU just isn't going to see.
So people might love Mario,Zelda and Metroid,but when other platforms offer so many more good AAA franchises and Nintendo only has a handful,it just doesn't feel justifiable to pay a premium console price just to play such a few games.
And Nintendo's idea of making 3 Mario games per year isn't helping. They need MORE and NEW franchises. Ideally for people with different tastes.
People had been waiting and asking Nintendo to FIX problems since the Gamecube era,but Nintendo keeps ignoring them,lagging way behind,failing to conform to standards,and in turn loosing support by devs/pubs and eventually gamers.
Nintendo might be making some of the best software,(arguably) but their hardware and online infrastructure is laughable,and their introvert business relations cost them.
I don't see why not. It wouldn't hurt them any.
I'd love the hilarity of them release on only the Nintendo Consoles and the PC however.
The uproar would be incredible.
I'd love the hilarity of them release on only the Nintendo Consoles and the PC however.
The uproar would be incredible.
Because, obviously, it hasn't lost enough money (yet) for it to close its doors. It's also worthwhile to realize that Japanese business models are not like American models (i.e.: The Japanese don't tend to sell or jump ship just because they've had a few bad years).VG_Addict said:
In short: it's Nintendo's business to stay in business.
That said, it feels like you're looking for something that you're simply not going to get on this forum: validation that Nintendo will survive as it always has. To be quite frank, whether Nintendo sinks or swims at this point is Nintendo's decision. Currently, there's little exciting consumers with regard to the Wii U or 3DS, and so the two are losing money. Speaking for myself, apart from the new Donkey Kong Country (which is NOT enough to justify my buying a new console), there is NOTHING on either system that I'm interested in playing...and if you're a console maker AND videogame maker; and people don't want to buy your console nor play your games; well that's unsustainable no matter what your previous successes were.
Nintendo can try to make another console if it wants, but what would it matter if it can't spark interest? Like I said, I don't care if I play another Zelda or Mario game again, so if they want to sell it to me; they need to offer more than just the ability to play next-gen renditions of their tired old properties.
They need to excite me. They need to give me a reason to believe that their console experience is superior (or at least superior in certain key aspects) to anything anyone else is offering. I'd be willing to play a Nintendo property in the near future, but I don't care if it's on Nintendo's Box.
This is very true. There's also the very important reality that, spoiler alert, Nintendo probably doesn't want to go bankrupt. It's commonly stated that Nintendo still has relative oodles of "money" in the bank. That may well be true, but it doesn't mean Nintendo is going to want to toss it all away throwing good money after bad. It's, not surprisingly, the sign of a smart business to not spend itself into bankruptcy. They need to and will draw a line somewhere long before they get to a point where they actually run out of money. Now, will that line be drawn by them going third party on the console development side or going with a new console altogether? Who knows.senordesol said:
We've all been here before (multiple times). I'm not an investment banker so I can't make a reasonable business case for why they should, it's an entirely selfish reason, that I simply don't want to buy another (inferior) console just to play a couple of games.
I've already got my PS4 and as Sony has proved to me, they put out more exclusives I'm interested in, even to the end of the machines cycle (The Last of Us, Ratchet & Clank: Nexus, etc). Can't say the same thing for the Wii that didn't get a title for almost half a decade I was interested in.
As much as I've never wanted or owned an Xbox, I would have to say it was the Nintendo killer. The scheming vizier behind the throne, waiting years to slowly poison and kill him. The poison of choice: Online Multiplayer (and achievements to some degree). The lack of a good online store really capped Nintendo in the ass, and Sony was wise to follow suit with the PSN.
I've already got my PS4 and as Sony has proved to me, they put out more exclusives I'm interested in, even to the end of the machines cycle (The Last of Us, Ratchet & Clank: Nexus, etc). Can't say the same thing for the Wii that didn't get a title for almost half a decade I was interested in.
As much as I've never wanted or owned an Xbox, I would have to say it was the Nintendo killer. The scheming vizier behind the throne, waiting years to slowly poison and kill him. The poison of choice: Online Multiplayer (and achievements to some degree). The lack of a good online store really capped Nintendo in the ass, and Sony was wise to follow suit with the PSN.
Because simply put, some people that enjoy Nintendo's games but can only afford 1 console will usually get a playstation or Xbox instead, so they have themselves believe that Nintendo will inevitably go 3rd party for said consumer's own convenience.
At least, thats the rationale.
Personally, I believe Nintendo would sooner go bankrupt and have their IPs die with them than go 3rd party and have Mario go the way of Sonic the Hedgehog post-Dreamcast.
If I can't afford a Nintendo console, I'll either save up for one, or skip the current generation and buy the next console (which tends to be backwards compatible, which is a nice feature the other 2 seem to forget about.)
At least, thats the rationale.
Personally, I believe Nintendo would sooner go bankrupt and have their IPs die with them than go 3rd party and have Mario go the way of Sonic the Hedgehog post-Dreamcast.
If I can't afford a Nintendo console, I'll either save up for one, or skip the current generation and buy the next console (which tends to be backwards compatible, which is a nice feature the other 2 seem to forget about.)