why some of you hate anime?

[Amnestic]

Well, I spent an hour writing a 2 page word document page response for this topic but at the last minute I decided not to post it mainly because a) I've heard it's rather easy to get banned here and b) I'm guessing that about everyone who reads it would be 'easily offended' because if you like anime.. the world tends to collapse when someone with a different opinion comes along and says "I don't like it" and puts across their opinions.

So, I'll sum it up by saying I am in no way a fan of this 'Inexplicably popular medium'. If you are a fan.. go away and like it and keep it to yourself.. but the day you or anybody starts forcing it down my throat and expecting me to like it.. you won't like what I have to say to you, person to person.

Could you PM me/email it to me? I'm intrigued. You can't get banned for a PM (unless I report it, which I've got the presence of mind not to) as far as I know.

 

[Random Argument Man]

Last time I answered an anime thread, I got on probabtion. After a good argument, it was removed.

So to make it less missunderstanding: I don't like the voice acting.

 

[Shugaazer]

I don't watch it because I didn't find the stuff interesting. The voices of the chicks are what really kill it for me.

 

[RufusMcLaser]

I don't hate anime, I simply prefer to keep it at arm's length because- let's face it- most of it is shite.
MOST.
There are some absolute gems out there. My DVD shelf has some stuff like Noir, Cowboy Bebop, Serial Experiments Lain, Ghost In the Shell: Standalone Complex, and various Miyazaki films. I've even got some mediocre stuff, like Stratos 4. In short, I am not a fulltime anime hater.

But the majority of anime makes me turn up my nose. Not only because it's not very good, but because some anime fans (whom I will not dignify with words like "otaku") are utterly undiscerning about it. They seem willing to gulp it down by the fistful without complaint. That's a special kind of fanboydom of its own, the only equivalent is probably in crossover fanfic readers.
For me it's these fans who worship drek that drive me batty. Is this any different from the soulless suburbanites who plunk down in front of the tube every night for three hours of prime-time? I see undiscerning consumers perpetuating bad media. The only difference is that I'd still rather hang out with the anime fans.

Sturgeon's Law, folks. 90% of everything is crap. Also, I dislike some of the artistic conventions in manga and anime, especially the big eyes/small mouth thing. Especially because it's been contaminating Western comics for the last ten years. Blech.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Well, I spent an hour writing a 2 page word document page response for this topic but at the last minute I decided not to post it mainly because a) I've heard it's rather easy to get banned here and b) I'm guessing that about everyone who reads it would be 'easily offended' because if you like anime.. the world tends to collapse when someone with a different opinion comes along and says "I don't like it" and puts across their opinions.

If your supposed essay contained the kind of personal attacks and invective that actually would get you banned, I would suggest that any criticisms it had to offer wouldn't be worth much in the first place.

So, I'll sum it up by saying I am in no way a fan of this 'Inexplicably popular medium'. If you are a fan.. go away and like it and keep it to yourself.. but the day you or anybody starts forcing it down my throat and expecting me to like it.. you won't like what I have to say to you, person to person.

See, here's where you're raising the question, you say you are "in no way a fan of" an entire medium. Do you judge any other media in the same way? Are you "in no way a fan of" theatre? poetry? videogames? books? Real people don't make judgements that way, they make them on an individual basis. Watching a bad play does not make rational people dismiss theatre as a dramatic medium (and lord knows I've seen some bad plays), and watching a bad anime should not make them dismiss animation as a dramatic medium either.

Also, whilst you might, I concede, once have been strapped to a chair, Alex DeLarge style and forced to watch all the filler episodes of Naruto back to back, I really rather suspect that no-one has forced anime down your throat, and you are in fact being a bit of a drama queen about people questioning your blanket dismissal of an entire medium.

 

[mark_n_b]

Dominant demographics are muddied a little by the fact that different distribution media have different dominant demographics. The 8-15 year old male demographic is the one that spends proportionally more of it's free time watching television...

Proving my point. Working on the assumption that you are trying to show evidence to the counterpoint, unfortunately you cannot open with the skewing distribution models has on demographics and then justifiably use such a specific distribution model to evidence the counterpoint. If we were on the debate team I would also be forced to point out you use of modifiers like "a little" instead of "a lot" reinforces the point

It's not just philosophy, good old capitalism has a say in this as well. American TV has a much larger potential audience, and a much higher potential return on investment, so the investments tend to be larger.

agreed, but the original poster whom was less than informed was arguing that Japanese cartoons have a much larger, sophisticated, invested, and diverse viewership ergo they are better quality cartoons. That is a matter of opinion, preference is up to the individual, but American brand titles, in general, have higher production values as a matter of course, so the suggestion that Japanese cartoons are superior is a one sided sentiment.

Shonen shows have a punishing release schedule as well, as there are no season breaks, and no sweeps to hold episodes back for, they release every week without fail, there is no way for the animators and writers to get significant lead time on the air date. Time and budget saving techniques in animation are a necessity, not just a philosophy.

Animation in Japan is a significantly more horrible industry than most other countries. And the realities have lead to a lot of the philosophical differences between these two schools of animation (both have good and bad points) but this does emphasize the reasons for the significant quality variation favoring the West.

Same reason you get a lot of talking (and the reason voice acting is bigger there), because a voice actor isn't being paid by the word, and recording takes proportionally much less time, you make sure you get your money's worth out of them.

This is misleading to say the least. The implication that voice actors get paid by the word in North America is not true. And the reason voice acting takes less time is because of the smaller investment in recording studio time and the North American practice of multiple takes for quality.

The reason you get a lot of talking is more because you can use the same thirteen phonemes for extended periods saving money on animation and time. The reason voice acting seems larger industry in Japan is because of the substantially smaller film industry.

All this has benefits as well as flaws. Benefit, you get more product out faster and cheaper, which is why you are able to experiment with various styles and markets (the very thing anime fandom spooges over) flaw, you get a lot of similarity in style especially when you need a viable project (ie. for TV) and the quality hit.

But this entire discussion is secondary to the point I was ultimately trying to make. Reasonable, informed discussion like this computes to a lot less anime "hate" and a lot more, "that's cool you're into that, I like baseball myself". But instead of informed discussion you get a lot of the fanboyism which we all know and I am not even going to example.

 

[Alydr]

I would say that anime haters have probably just not seen any good anime. The same way if you go to a bad Chinese restaurant you probably think Chinese food is all bad.

I love anime but I have a balanced enough brain to realize that, just as in American TV, there is perhaps 1-2 shows PER YEAR that are of high quality, 3-5 that are passable, and the rest is garbage.

And therein lies the problem: the garbage is cheap to get licensed and in abundant supply so the really good stuff gets drowned out by the Pokemon, Dragonball, and whatever other crap is out there.

If you hate anime or think it's all for kids or just "don't like it" because it's perceived as uncool, watch one of the following top-class anime in your preferred genre, it will change you mind I am absolutely positive:

Action: Black Lagoon
Gambling: Akagi
Crime: Gungrave
Comedy: Haruhi Suzumiya
Mystery: Monster
Suspense: Death Note
Police: Ghost in the Shell SAC (second season is best)
Horror: Elfen Lied
Drama/Romance: Honey & Clover
Trainwreck: School Days

Other top-tier anime: Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni, Samurai Champloo, Kaiji, Cowboy Bebop,
Other top-tier but not completely "mature": Fullmetal Alchemist, Trigun
Other top-tier but "ridiculously over the top" and/or mecha: Code Geass, Hellsing

Finally if you're capable of expressing emotion without fearing that your manliness is at stake, anything by Makoto Shinkai is a must-watch above all else.

Those are all the ones I can think of off the top of my head. There's a lot more, but the overwhelming majority is crap.

Also, to the guy who grouped Death Note in with Bleach and Naruto: You've just proven you've never even seen a single episode of Death Note but are able to judge it as being made of fail, making it obvious you're just biased against anime and just quoting whatever names you've heard recently.

 

[DonPauliani]

I personally am in love with anime, regardless of how irrational (Love Hina), unnecessarily lengthy (Naruto) or tortured (poor One Piece-- pre-Funimation) it can get. But I dare propose that it is an occidental/oriental cultural division thing that keeps the haters goin'.

 

[Good morning blues]

The only anime that I've ever seen that I didn't hate (and I had some friends who were way into anime in high school, so this isn't lack of exposure) is Akira. I don't like anime because the production values are usually high-school-basement low, there's way too much widespread and gratuitous misogyny and violence, and in all of anime there is only one joke (male says something lecherous, female responds with violence, audience forces laughter in order to justify spending so much money on this shit).

Additionally, anime is right up there with the Rocky Horror Picture Show and World of Warcraft in terms of creepy, disgusting and irritating fanbases.

 

[ffxfriek]

i dont hate it i highly dislike naruto among others like inuyasha

 

[Huey1000]

I guess I used to like anime, but I wouldn't call it an art form, well at least not fine art. It's more a form of entertainment, for both the creator and the viewer. I wouldn't call it childish either, if watching/reading anime is childish then so would be playing a video game; I guess if you're in your thirties it would be a little abnormal.

 

[Alydr]

I guess I used to like anime, but I wouldn't call it an art form, well at least not fine art. It's more a form of entertainment, for both the creator and the viewer. I wouldn't call it childish either, if watching/reading anime is childish then so would be playing a video game; I guess if you're in your thirties it would be a little abnormal.

Watch 5 Centimeters Per Second. Ha ha, I win, it's an artform.

edit: Oh and seriously someone watch School Days. I define it as a "trainwreck" genre series because, much like a trainwreck, it is horrifying to watch but you can't help but do so. You can't look away because it's so awe-inspiringly "how the **** can this get worse" but manages to do so. I'm not talking about the art being bad or the story being bad, it's just a series of horrendous events. The ending does not disappoint though.

 

[Huey1000]

I guess I used to like anime, but I wouldn't call it an art form, well at least not fine art. It's more a form of entertainment, for both the creator and the viewer. I wouldn't call it childish either, if watching/reading anime is childish then so would be playing a video game; I guess if you're in your thirties it would be a little abnormal.

Watch 5 Centimeters Per Second. Ha ha, I win, it's an artform.

A different kind of art, not my favorite though.

 

[Alydr]

Have you seen it? Not to argue but you really shouldn't judge something you haven't seen.

This movie has the best art of any animation ever made. That's not hyperbole or exaggeration, but I'm too tired to start posting screenshots. Besides the art though, it's also an incredibly powerful story and - even taking all American and other movies into consideration - it's probably among my most favourite movies of all time, like in the top 5. I'm 20 years old and I've seen a lot of movies. I first saw 5cm over a year ago, it's not like I just saw it last night and I think it's the best thing ever or something. I'm a reasonably balanced individual, I've held down a job for 2 years, and I've been promoted and given raises without asking for them. I've got a car and a steady relationship. I am the exact opposite of the stereotypical animetard who would tell you something's "the greatest ever" just because they tried out a new shade of blue for the water in one scene or something.

Let me put it this way: The instant it's available in region 1 bluray, I will buy a bluray player only for it, just so I can watch it and it alone more clearly.

The only anime that I've ever seen that I didn't hate (and I had some friends who were way into anime in high school, so this isn't lack of exposure) is Akira. I don't like anime because the production values are usually high-school-basement low, there's way too much widespread and gratuitous misogyny and violence, and in all of anime there is only one joke (male says something lecherous, female responds with violence, audience forces laughter in order to justify spending so much money on this shit).

Additionally, anime is right up there with the Rocky Horror Picture Show and World of Warcraft in terms of creepy, disgusting and irritating fanbases.

Anime has always been a pretty different kind of entertainment but if the most recent thing you've seen are things from the time when Akira was fairly new, you really shouldn't write off the entire country's collective entertainment industry just yet. Akira is by modern standards average at best... anime has come a very long way even in the last 5 years or so. If you're looking for American-style "gay jokes and sarcasm and more gay jokes" humor, you probably won't find very much of it... but on the other hand I think you probably haven't seen the best comedies anime has to offer. Honestly in your case if you're so concerned about your self-image that you can't watch entertainment that stereotypically unattractive people watch, I've got nothing more useful to say.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

I don't hate anime, I simply prefer to keep it at arm's length because- let's face it- most of it is shite.
MOST.
There are some absolute gems out there. My DVD shelf has some stuff like Noir, Cowboy Bebop, Serial Experiments Lain, Ghost In the Shell: Standalone Complex, and various Miyazaki films. I've even got some mediocre stuff, like Stratos 4. In short, I am not a fulltime anime hater.

But the majority of anime makes me turn up my nose. Not only because it's not very good, but because some anime fans (whom I will not dignify with words like "otaku") are utterly undiscerning about it. They seem willing to gulp it down by the fistful without complaint. That's a special kind of fanboydom of its own, the only equivalent is probably in crossover fanfic readers.
For me it's these fans who worship drek that drive me batty. Is this any different from the soulless suburbanites who plunk down in front of the tube every night for three hours of prime-time? I see undiscerning consumers perpetuating bad media. The only difference is that I'd still rather hang out with the anime fans.

Sturgeon's Law, folks. 90% of everything is crap. Also, I dislike some of the artistic conventions in manga and anime, especially the big eyes/small mouth thing. Especially because it's been contaminating Western comics for the last ten years. Blech.

Yes, yes, YES! That's exactly what it is for me, too. Some people will look at an art style, or note that it came from Japan, and then be much nicer in their treatment of it than they would be of something Western. Sturgeon's Law all the way.

By the way, you have good taste. GitS and Bebop are great, and I've been planning to watch Noir for quite a while.

 

[Alydr]

Big eyes, small mouth has actually been on the decline lately... not that you'd know. Also it's not 90%, it's more like 95%.

Noir is too damn slow moving for my taste, and I'm pretty tolerant. Too many slow pan shots of the same thing, followed by characters looking profound and contemplative as if they've never seen it before. Too many of those things "bad" anime is known for. Cryptic dialogue and such just to make things mysterious and make you think there's substance that doesn't really exist. The same damn 30-second flashback like 8 episodes in a row, for no apparent reason other than to remind you that, yes, this character has a troubled past. It's not actually "bad", they just tried to spread 13-16 episodes worth of material across 24 (26?) episodes.

 

[666thHeretic]

Main characters that are impossible to like (Naruto, Inuyasha, Ichigo), female leads that are irritating idiots (Sakura, Kagome), out of place attempts at humor (Naruto, Inuyasha, Bleach, even Full Metal Alchemist), the fact that most of those attempts at humor are "[character] says something blatantly false to impress girl/heroic character, is proven a liar immediately after ending sentence" or "[character] acts like a total idiot when accused of liking a female character romantically," and so on.

Full Metal Alchemist was alright, I suppose, but I didn't watch it very long and that one guy (Hughes, I think) really got on my nerves. He has "one (UND PRECISELY VON) personality trait (fatherly love/pride towards his daughter), a cliche which is not only incredibly annoying but also a sign of lazy writing. I remember the other characters having more depth, but I haven't seen the show in a while.

Oh, and I hate it when they have the character that seems to be functionally retarded (completely naive, personality of a five year old) and then they turn out to be a borderline genius in every variety of schoolwork. Like Orihime.

EDIT: Before you respond, please be advised that I know good anime exists somewhere, I just don't feel like looking for it. Death Note seemed okay for the short time I watched it (clever plans that are actually clever, Light developing a God complex instead of becoming some overly righteous prick, that first little duel between Light and L early into the series), but I lost interest for some reason. I think it was Oblivion, doesn't matter. Anyway, I don't have a built-in hatred for ALL anime, but the topic was why I hate it. And just be glad I didn't mention Dragonball (Z/GT), because it somehow consists of everything wrong with anime, while remaining totally devoid of redeeming features.

 

[blank0000]

ME ME!!!

well the reason I generally hate anime is because I find it to be a very generic and limited form of animation.

I love animation, I love newgrounds, old skewl disney, graphic novels, what have you. But when I see a slew of anime assorted complains come to mind.

Generic: so much anime and so little to watch, generic plot, generic flow, ect. Yes the first few you watch may see "oh soo original" but as time goes on the massive robots, schoolgirls, ninjas, catgirls.......goddamendcatgirls, warrior children,a llsstart toblend in togeather and it all looks so similar I see no point in watching one over the other, which leads me tooooooooooooo

limited style: Every time I hear someone say that the Japanese have the animation world licked I die a little inside. For most "traditional" animation, its about creating flow and the creative process that leads to interesting styles and looks that help to break the 5th wall of this here world and become more truthful through exaggeration "just as in saaaaay a musical or a play". In anime that element is eliminated due to the tramatic pressure to chuck out a toon quick enough. I often see a single picture on the screen and an VERY AWARE that each frame is their. We have the same problem with any other animations, however, because anime generally is based off Manga and more "serious......lol" content, its regarded as a more sophisticated form of animation.....when it totally is not.... Hence I hold a lot of hatred toward it. I will admit that their have been some decent technicles to come out of "anime" but their generally used sparcly with help from people who actually have time to put in effort


Plus.....the plots are generally horrible, comparable to nothing worth reading or watching.

 

[Hrafnsmerki]

I hate anime, and anime hates me, and it's fine for me and for anime.

Serious, I only like Avatar (and it's not totally anime), and that's it, I think other series are stupid and childish (but it's my opinion).