Why the hate for Fallout 3?
- Thread starter Wargamer
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I loved Fallout 1 & 2, kinda liked Oblivion for about 20 hours of gameplay and love Fallout 3 (instead of Oblivion with guns I call it Oblivion with atmosphere. Oblivion's world felt so incredibly bland, there's no little drama's, no imagination, no interesting people, it's all a giant pile of random dungeons and blah. Stuff like the supermarket where the guy booby trapped the place and simply died in the corner of the building, too afraid to leave, I love that kind of detail).
And I play it on the PS3. (painfull2006: it IS bloody annoying we don't get the extra stuff, that's a fact, you can cry about us being sad about it all you want but we are in our right to feel that way. Thank you.)
I have yet to finish the game though, all the horror stories about the ending are keeping me from it. Got one max lvl 20 good girl and one lvl 10 bad guy, the first based on energy weapons the second on unarmed and heavy weapons. The flamer rocks btw, as do grenades, the minigun is a pea shooter that drains ammo like a madman.
Iron Mal:
You made me grin. I've played multiple games that used this system of calculating your odds of hitting based on skill beside your actual aim with the crosshair. Never has that type of gameplay ever come with such a high profile game though, so its not surprising that you've never encountered it before. But its still funny. Like that couple behind me that asked 'When are they going to stop singing?' while watching a movie version of a musical... This is the main reason its billed as an rpg first and an fps second. It should be called an fprpg really.
And I play it on the PS3. (painfull2006: it IS bloody annoying we don't get the extra stuff, that's a fact, you can cry about us being sad about it all you want but we are in our right to feel that way. Thank you.)
I have yet to finish the game though, all the horror stories about the ending are keeping me from it. Got one max lvl 20 good girl and one lvl 10 bad guy, the first based on energy weapons the second on unarmed and heavy weapons. The flamer rocks btw, as do grenades, the minigun is a pea shooter that drains ammo like a madman.
Iron Mal:
You made me grin. I've played multiple games that used this system of calculating your odds of hitting based on skill beside your actual aim with the crosshair. Never has that type of gameplay ever come with such a high profile game though, so its not surprising that you've never encountered it before. But its still funny. Like that couple behind me that asked 'When are they going to stop singing?' while watching a movie version of a musical... This is the main reason its billed as an rpg first and an fps second. It should be called an fprpg really.
Yeah, it's the lack of meaningful choices that hurts FO3 the most.
The strength of the originals was the choices&consequences and the story/writing. FO3 lacks in those areas.
On the up side:
+ better music than the originals
+ better art direction. The retro look really works for FO3.
= better atmosphere
+ weak FP combat still beats the minimalistic and mindless turn-based combat of the original
= better from a gamist POV
Actually, FO1 wasn't phenominal in the C&C department either, in-game most of it just amounted to SUCCEED or FAIL and get attacked or banished by faction X,Y.
Even the end slides were bugged and you would often get the wrong slide, like Necropolis florishing, when it was actually overrun by Super mutants in game, while the Hub gets destroyed when it's timer hasn't run out yet.
The main appeal of the originals then is simply the X factor. It worked despite it's flaws.
The strength of the originals was the choices&consequences and the story/writing. FO3 lacks in those areas.
On the up side:
+ better music than the originals
+ better art direction. The retro look really works for FO3.
= better atmosphere
+ weak FP combat still beats the minimalistic and mindless turn-based combat of the original
= better from a gamist POV
Actually, FO1 wasn't phenominal in the C&C department either, in-game most of it just amounted to SUCCEED or FAIL and get attacked or banished by faction X,Y.
Even the end slides were bugged and you would often get the wrong slide, like Necropolis florishing, when it was actually overrun by Super mutants in game, while the Hub gets destroyed when it's timer hasn't run out yet.
The main appeal of the originals then is simply the X factor. It worked despite it's flaws.
From what I see people are always going to slag off games that are popular, simply because there was one or two things they didn't like about it. Mostly it's an anti fanboy mechanism, as people are quick to say "OMFG it is teh awesomezzz!" or something to that effect. There are those who think it isn't enough like Fallout, there are some who think it isn't enough like Oblivion, and others who just plain old don't like it for no real reason, because it's not their thing. They all come together against fanboys, and then more people get annoyed and people are on the defence on both sides and flame wars ensue.
At least that's how it works in my experience.
At least that's how it works in my experience.
Because its not fun. Whenever I played it, I asked myself WHY? It just wasn't fun, and everyone told you to start with small guns, which would have given me the standard shooter arsenal, thus making the game even less fun. I played up to the end of Tranquility Lane, and then took out the disc and put Oblivion back in. Because its better.
The game is good. I just finished it yesterday and I honestly thing it is a good game. People who were fans of Fallout 1 and 2 will dislike this simply because it's not like the other games. But if you judge it by what it is, it's a good game.
Is this game really worth playing? I mean, I have heard practically nothing about about it and would like to hear more.
First of all that has absolutely nothing to do with the game in question, your going off topic because you cant seem to handle the fact that Fallout 3 is just a remake and nothing more.Wargamer said:
The game in question (Fallout 3), is bad because it took a great game (Oblivion) and just added another theme to it (Steampunk) and changed the map from a fantasy setting into a post-apoc setting.
It did nothing more, and therefore it really isnt all that fun for those of us old enough to have played the Elder Scrolls series, as those were vastly superior to Fallout 3.
Oh, and if you want to play real RPG and not video/pc games, and you enjoy the post-apoc setting, check out Mutant, its really good, played it a couple of years back with some friends.
Every game that is popular / changes the previous format etc. etc. will always have as many detractors as fans.
These discussions never come to a conclusion, they're always the same wether it's people arguing about Halo, Gears Of War, Resident Evil, whatever. It's always the same and it's boring to hear, I don't know why people even bother asking the question, who gives a fuck what someone else thinks of a game you like, you either like it or not and who gives a shit what anyone else thinks.
These discussions never come to a conclusion, they're always the same wether it's people arguing about Halo, Gears Of War, Resident Evil, whatever. It's always the same and it's boring to hear, I don't know why people even bother asking the question, who gives a fuck what someone else thinks of a game you like, you either like it or not and who gives a shit what anyone else thinks.
The main problem that I see with it is that its too imersive, imersion is almost always good... unless you're so imersed that you forget to save, you die and then you realise that the last auto save was 2 hours ago, and honestly I'm considering sell FO3 because I cant bring myself to play it knowing whats going to happen and what I have to catch up on
First off just stop. Stop before this turns into a flame war. It's your opinion that all it was is oblivion and I would have to disagree. They share the image and nothing more to be honest. I mean call me crazy, but I do believe there are some critical falicies in the way you argue that point. I'll start by listing the differences.Fronken said:
The stat systems are different.
The development systems are different.
The lock picking systems while similar are still different.
There are no guns in oblivion.
There are no atomic age themes in oblivion.
There are no perks in Oblivion.
Granted those are just a few, but if you can't give me more then they look similar then enough of the pointless flamebait. They were developed by the same people so of course it is going to look similar. It is going to share elements of design. But to say the two games are the same is a gross injustice to both games. I bring this all up because I'd rather like to keep this a civil conversation. There is a deep story involved and if you look at the shreds of evidence (and I'm not talking about the main quest, but the actual story about how the world came to be) they did a pretty decent job keeping it close to the way the Fallout Bibles dictate they should be.
Because hating on things most people like gets your posts noticed and discussed, and you can pretend that you're smarter than everyone else.
I would say it is. Most definitely.More Fun To Compute said:
It doesn't play as a 'typical' RPG, but thankfully it avoids that god-awful pitfall of "One Player MuMORPuGer that quite a few titles (including FFXII) have fallen into.
It's not a First Person Shooter either; partly because you can play Third Person (though I hate the third-person mode), and partly because your ability to damage the enemy is determined by a bunch of invisible probability tables, not how well you aim. I swear to god I have scored headshots by firing over enemies before now, and the game has magically swung the bullet down into their face. That said, I've fired dead at the chest and done no damage at all, so it works both ways.
Fallout 3 is, I'd say, perfect if you want a 'Paper-lite' RPG; the sort where all you keep track of in terms of numbers is your weapons, armour and how much swag you've earned. It's great just to go exploring, and I've been so busy exploring I've actually built up a backlog of places I keep meaning to revisit to 'look at properly'.
I like gun combat based stats more than skill but generally only if it's something like Jagged Alliance or Silent Storm so the combat doesn't really sell it for me.Wargamer said:
I do like exploring in games but not the Oblivion sort of exploring. Is it hard to explore in the game, like, do you really have to work to find something unique as in it's hidden or surrounded by near impregnable defences? When I get there is it something better than a cut and paste dungeon with 2d20 worth of monsters evenly distributed about spawn points?
I've definately found the best way to play this game is to NOT follow the quests. Some people in this thread who didn't like it said they got upto this and this point... That's wrong from the get go. You should be going out there and explore. Just pick a spot on the map and WALK your way there and see what arrows appear on your compass.Wargamer said:
"Hey, look, a cave full of Deathclaws, let's sneak in and see. Oooh, shiny bobblehead!"
"A camp, let's walk in." *beep *beep "Mines?!" *boom "Raiders?! Ah crap. Oh look, someone's journal. Oh, an interesting location's marked in it, let's go there!"
etc etc.
This kind of gameplay is a lot of fun in Fallout 3 and very lacking in Oblivion. I got the 100 locations trophy without having met up with dad yet. In Oblivion I quickly got bored of walking and quick travelled everywhere.
MoreFunToCompute:
Fallout 3 has no random generated dungeons whatsoever. All buildings and their inhabitants are fixed. And its too much to all visit within a 100 hours or so, so don't worry about that.
Fallout 3 is very easy to explore... it's actually finding places that's tricky.More Fun To Compute said:
An example is the AntAgoniser's lair (don't ask). I guessed (correctly) that as her arch nemesis lived in an easy-to-spot robot factory on the southern side of town, she would be on the northern side about the same distance away. So I went and looked... and looked... and looked... and after an hour I realised I was so far away from where I should be that I'd become completely lost.
It wasn't until I went back and talked with an NPC that I found the place; it was in a valley. I had climbed up the left side of the valley, gone around the top and back down the right side of the valley, not once thinking to actually look inside of it. If I'd had just followed the road, I'd have spotted it about a minute after leaving town.
Talk about over-thinking things...
But yeah, normally exploring is quite easy. Most towns and major landmarks you'll spot on the horizon when you get close-ish, though it seems you have to be stood at the door before it'll ping the place up on your map. I've looked at the full map of Fallout 3 a few times and thought "How the hell did I walk past all that!?". The Map is a lot bigger than you think...
Really? I knew an AntAgonist once, on the Inferno BBS. (If you get that reference without using google then I'll buy the game.)Wargamer said:
This has to be the 5th Fallout 3 hate-related thread I've posted in. That said, let's get rolling.
Mild spoiler alert!
I got myself the game just after christmas after a lot of jumping back and forth. It took some time to install so I had time to ponder my decision, and I still wondered what the hell this was when I was in the 'baby-stage'. However, after my 10th birthday, I was sold. I played it virtually nonstop for 17 hours. Then I finnished it.
But here's the kicker, I didn't hate the ending, nor did I dislike it. I felt it was actually quite nice. Sure, it's a slideshow with your accomplishments, which in my case was rather short, but somehow it hit quite close to home for me, dying to finnish your own fathers work. I do realize that might just be me, but nonetheless.
So after sleeping for about 12 hours, I decided to start a new character. I wasn't quite happy with my creation that looked like Uwe Boll in the first place, so after a quick session of Google-Fu, I found Fallout3Nexus, a modding community. If I was sold before, now I was bought back and sold twice as a male prostitute. To the same client. The modding community in Fallout 3 is huge, and there's so much for all tastes to download for free.
I found myself a sweet looking female character saved game, and started playing again, taking my time to do everything. For example, I was doing some quest which I have now forgotten, and I saw something looking like a cave entrance in the distance. I checked it out, cleared out some raiders and bagged myself some caps and ammo. I exited, and saw a tower. I ran towards said tower. On the way I saw the RobCo plant, so I went there. So it went on.
Not that the game was without flaws. You could bet your dog on that the game would crash when you hadn't saved for a long time, leaving you only with autosaves, which thankfully do come whenever you enter a building, sleep, wait, or fast travel. It was also prone to crash quite often when you entered rooms, so you'd have situations where you would save right before an autosave just in case.
But really, none of what I've written matters, it's a subjective oppinion. Imagine a Gauss-graph. You'll have the majority think it's okay, some will think it's amazing, some will think it's crap. Those who think it's crap tend to be louder. It's the loud minority syndrome-thing.
But still. A game that can get me screaming, afraid for my life when I get attacked by a Super Mutant with a minigun is a good one.
I do however understand what people are saying about it being Oblivion with guns now that I've bought Oblivion. What I do not understand is why people think that's a bad thing.
Mild spoiler alert!
I got myself the game just after christmas after a lot of jumping back and forth. It took some time to install so I had time to ponder my decision, and I still wondered what the hell this was when I was in the 'baby-stage'. However, after my 10th birthday, I was sold. I played it virtually nonstop for 17 hours. Then I finnished it.
But here's the kicker, I didn't hate the ending, nor did I dislike it. I felt it was actually quite nice. Sure, it's a slideshow with your accomplishments, which in my case was rather short, but somehow it hit quite close to home for me, dying to finnish your own fathers work. I do realize that might just be me, but nonetheless.
So after sleeping for about 12 hours, I decided to start a new character. I wasn't quite happy with my creation that looked like Uwe Boll in the first place, so after a quick session of Google-Fu, I found Fallout3Nexus, a modding community. If I was sold before, now I was bought back and sold twice as a male prostitute. To the same client. The modding community in Fallout 3 is huge, and there's so much for all tastes to download for free.
I found myself a sweet looking female character saved game, and started playing again, taking my time to do everything. For example, I was doing some quest which I have now forgotten, and I saw something looking like a cave entrance in the distance. I checked it out, cleared out some raiders and bagged myself some caps and ammo. I exited, and saw a tower. I ran towards said tower. On the way I saw the RobCo plant, so I went there. So it went on.
Not that the game was without flaws. You could bet your dog on that the game would crash when you hadn't saved for a long time, leaving you only with autosaves, which thankfully do come whenever you enter a building, sleep, wait, or fast travel. It was also prone to crash quite often when you entered rooms, so you'd have situations where you would save right before an autosave just in case.
But really, none of what I've written matters, it's a subjective oppinion. Imagine a Gauss-graph. You'll have the majority think it's okay, some will think it's amazing, some will think it's crap. Those who think it's crap tend to be louder. It's the loud minority syndrome-thing.
But still. A game that can get me screaming, afraid for my life when I get attacked by a Super Mutant with a minigun is a good one.
I do however understand what people are saying about it being Oblivion with guns now that I've bought Oblivion. What I do not understand is why people think that's a bad thing.