I....did not. I still think the implication is there, though, considering that they're trying to change someone else's creative property. Just a poor choice of words, that's all.Asita said:
Why the hate towards retake mass effect? All I see is hate.
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Money is a core aspect of business, and likely the bottom line as well, but if making money is the sole reason a corporation acts then it's going to lose it's customers and the money they bring in due to displeasure at the product. Games Workshop is a good example of thinking about solely making money at the cost of customer loyalty. Giving up many things that lost them money, but made fans happy, and trying to force people to play bigger games that would cost them more to play caused many long time fans to jump ship in disgust.Bhaalspawn said:
The debate between capitalism and socialism isn't really something I can really take up due to lack of knowledge that would allow me to argue the points effectively. However there is more then one way to skin a cat and more then one way to entice change within business.
You also seem to think that the 'retake mass effect' group is actively trying to take over or control Bioware or EA. That or demanding their money back for lack of pleasure derived from the game. Last I checked the retake movement was more acting along the lines of 'you screwed up, please fix this'. It's less about making them do something and more about giving them a chance to clean up their mess of an ending before they do like you mentioned in your post, take their money elsewhere and never look back.
Comparing it to SOPA is a bit unfair as well since retake has done nothing along the lines of forcing EA to change the ending. Granted there was the FTC lawsuit but that's a debate more about false advertising then about forcing EA to change the ending. SOPA would have allowed actual censorship over then internet as opposed to a large group of fans trying to send a message to Bioware that they want and ending consistent with the series as a whole.
And for the record I never actually bought ME3.
So everyone gets the right to call us childish, entitled, but the second I said "shut up" which isn't an insult, I'm in the wrong?Chunga the Great said:
Also, yes, it makes it impossible to play at least ME3 single player. Why bother? I won't get a different ending. My choices don't matter. I get to pick one of 3 endings at the end. That's it. It doesn't matter who we recruit, who we kill, who we betray, who we ally with. NOTHING. Krogans won't appear in the final push if I cure genophage, Salarians don't show up to help me if I betray the Krogans, Rachni don't come if I spared their queen. NOTHING.
Also, the ending has multiple inconsistencies. Teammates teleporting onto the ship that runs away from their beloved captain for no reason, Joker trying to outrun explosion while using INSTANTANEOUS TRAVEL, Harbinger despite being all creepy and rapey in ME2 (THIS HURTS YOU, I KNOW YOU CAN FEEL THIS) just leaves after blasting Shepard once in the face, Mass Relays explode with the power of a supernova when they go boom, and probably destroyed a piece of the galaxy, not to mention the cinematic is pretty much dead wrong - it starts out not only NOT in the Sol system, but in a relay that was already destroyed along with the whole solar system it was located in.
Don't forget that pretty much all Quarians and Turians on Earth will die of starvation pretty quickly, Krogans will eat everyone else, starting with Salarians, and it will happen within a year or so, since Earth was devastated so much it couldn't even feed the humans alone, not to mention half a dozen of other races.
Hi, tell your grandpa it's the XXI century, and you can't go to another company for product you like.Bhaalspawn said:
Like someone said - you and people like you are the reason EA, Capcom and other douchebags get to do whatever the fuck they want. You just don't care. It doesn't affect you, so you don't care. And when it happens to you, it's too late. EA already ruined a fuckload of franchises and companies, Bioware is next in line after Maxim, Bullfrog, Westwood and others.
You may be right and something may actually come of all the rage. But my answer to the thread-starter is still the same: the hate towards Retake Mass Effect is most likely simply down to the fact that people find listening to whining about stuff they don't care about annoying.theflyingpeanut said:
Arguably, the group of fans with the most reason to complain are still Star Wars fans. They waited all those years for the prequel films, and what they got just wasn't up to scratch. The rage is all very understandable, but that doesn't make it any less annoying for people who aren't fans.
I guess because the whole thing on paper sounds very childish. Like a toddler who holds his breath because his mom won't let him eat cake for dinner. Only now it's become more like a full blown tantrum. Not only that, but the sheer amount of hyperbole being thrown around like people saying that the ending "ruined the entire series" or that "the ending ruined my experience with the entire series". People are acting like the game releases snakes or bees into your home when you reach the end epilogue. Did I like the ending? Not particularly. But what didn't happen? It didn't ruin all the fun I've had with the series. I'll keep playing the games, Mass Effect 3 included. Because I love the characters, the setting, and the plots that are present within each game. If just one of these people would take the time to talk like an actual human being without resorting to acting like the game destroyed their entire world, got them fired from their job, ran off with their girlfriend, and killed their dog, it'd probably do them a lot of good.
Yeah, I'll just consider myself lucky to have so many friends, both RL and online, who also hate Mass Effect 3's ending. That, along with a singular blog post I put together, stops me from doing stupid things like creating threads on The Escapist. ;DMetalMagpie said:
Hell, just yesterday I got a message from a friend I haven't seen since last year (although we're meeting this weekend), who was disappointed after playing through the game. He had figured he'd try the third game first, and if he liked it he'd go back and play the first two games too. That just isn't happening anymore, since he didn't like how all his choices throughout the game were rendered null and void, so he doesn't have any interesting games to play for most of the rest of the year. Oops.
Yeah, it's... I suppose it's really hard to come up with something convoluted enough in the context of the X-Men, considering how the Marvel universe tends to work.MetalMagpie said:
And yes, I meant in the video game sense, since being/controlling the main protagonist (and I do wish Wolvie wasn't the main protagonist) tends to make the experience more personal.
I always find this highly amusing, because I'm a Star Wars fan who didn't rage about the prequels, a Dragon Age fan who didn't rage about the changes in the sequel (although the final act was especially messy), and a Mass Effect fan who... yeah.MetalMagpie said:
I'm usually able to find enjoyment even in terribly flawed products, and rationalize away continuity and lore issues, but with Mass Effect 3 things are different.
True. It's still the internet though. Almost everyone is constantly whining about something, be it the fact that more attractive people than them are more successful sexually, or the fact that their boss is piping in salvia through the air vents and won't let them out of their cubicle. I find it easier to just let the whining that isn't important to me go on. It's not like these threads are disguised.MetalMagpie said:
Recently, I had a rather interesting realization. The massive reaction coming from the major "jouranlists" (I use the term loosely, and I will get to that) has absolutely nothing to do with the merits of ME3, or how they perceive the merits of ME3. Rather, it is a defense of their own reputations and their own merits. How do I mean this? Well, there is obviously a massive disjunction between the fans and major reviewers. Due to this, a very large amount of questions have been asked and brought light of the reviewing process. Now, I'm not saying that all of these raised questions have merit, but most certainly some do. This has created a bit of a backlash against the reviewing process as a whole, and the integrity of the reviewers and journalists themselves. So really, what we are seeing is *not* a defense of Bioware per se, but rather a defense of the reviewers themselves.Dark Knifer said:
That said, this brings another issue to front. I hardly view any of the reviewers as being critical in the least. If they had, they would have pointed out the many flaws ME3 has, from it's broken journal system, to it's repetitive gameplay, to the tacked on and pointless side-mission system that does nothing but create a facade of length, to the ridiculously short amount of time it takes to actually play the game (I clocked it in at just under 12 hours, with very little of substance to do within the game to lengthen this). The point is, there are a number of glaring flaws that were overlooked. The shallow and meaningless defense of their "perfect scores" exemplifies this. ME3 is a functional game, but hardly anything more than that.
Compare this with major film reviewers. A major film reviewer will not give a perfect score or rating or what-have-you to a film that is merely functional. Nor will they demean those that disagree with them, regardless of how loud they are. Rather they will be quite honest about the shortcomings a film may have, and will reserve perfect scores for those films that go far beyond being merely "functional".
When you break it down, this is why videogames fail miserably as art. The reviewers, who are supposed to be critical about the given subject, fail at doing so. And when they fail at doing so, rather than providing any more substance to their argument they make childish attacks against those that disagree with them, in the mindset of "The fans are being whiny children, which means we can also."
However, fans are not held to any standard as such. They don't need to be critical, nor do they need to provide substance for their argument. If they do, more power to them. But they are not required to do so by any stretch of the imagination, nor should they be expected to. As an audience and consumer of a given subject, they are merely allowed to do whatever they damn well please. Reviewers, however, need to be held to a much higher standard. Their entire purpose is to be critical of the subject matter, and approach it substantively. And yet, as the whole ME3 debacle has shown, they are completely incapable of doing so.
Really, regardless of what the fans say, the reviewers and "journalists" are completely out of place for calling them entitled, or any such nonsense. Their place is to be critical of the industry itself, critical of the subject matter. The fact that they are not, and instead resort to childish attacks on the fans, proves that they are not. They have no substance for their arguments, and are incapable of backing their opinions with merit. And in an effort to defend their flimsy reputation, they essentially label detractors as being childish.
I would say that ME3 is different not because of anything substantively different with ME3 itself, but rather the extremely condescending response from the gaming media as a whole as well as Bioware itself. Both have done nothing but demean the detractors completely, and have done absolutely nothing to bridge the gap. Even Lucas didn't give as much of a middle finger to the fans for some of his shenanigans. He just said "Deal with it", more or less. And the media poked a bit of fun at the loud types, but they didn't have such an organized attempt at completely ostracizing them. Really, the thing that I find most appalling about this entire debacle is the absolutely pompous attitude that has been coming from the video game media outlets and Bioware. It seems that they have the viewpoint that the only way you can say anything about the subject is if you are on the "Inside", and every one else effectively doesn't matter. Or that the voiced opinions of those outside of the inner circle are meaningless, and shouldn't even be given a chance to be heard.JediMB said:
In essence, they have taken the "Asshole Artist" shtic and ran with it. The argument really is that videogames should only be made with reviewers and the developers in mind, screw the players. Anything to appeals to the actual fans is not worthy of the time of day. Which is a load of crap.
It's pretty obvious that a lot of the outcry against "Retake Mass Effect" is EA viral people scrambling to save their company's hide. Pretty typical stuff. EA has a lot of those people, like many companies do.
Keep in mind I'm not even IN the retake thing, as I never bought ME3 - yet I was able to know what the movement is about. I think it's interesting how many journalist fail this even on a basic level.
Yeah, I completely agree. Many of them haven't even *READ* what retake is about. They know that it disagrees with them, and that's enough for bashing using the usual industry arguments ("entitled" etc)
Keep in mind I'm not even IN the retake thing, as I never bought ME3 - yet I was able to know what the movement is about. I think it's interesting how many journalist fail this even on a basic level.
The entire debacle is an industry wide embarrassment. Keep in mind I'm not much of a ME fan, and although I enjoyed the first two games of the series, I found them lacking and not really that terribly engaging. But frankly I find it both extremely interesting and aggravating the industry's rather shallow and ignorant response to those that do care about the franchise. It seems as nothing more than a shallow attempt at defending their reputations, rather than defending their opinions.zefiris said: