Why the XBone is a good console

[M Silverthorn]

I look at it all this way.

Fact: I am a gamer who wishes to crash on the couch after a long day, drink in hand, with the intent of booting up [Game Whatever] on my [8th-Gen Console]. I wish to do these things, maybe not in precise order, with as little interruption as possible. Note that I say "Game", and I don't really refer to other options like Netflix, Cable TV, Skype, etc - I'm just talking about the "Game".

Fact: I hate any strings attached that limit me in any of the following fields: sharing/lending games with/to my friends and family; waiting 5-10 minutes for my machine to connect to the internet, particularly when I just want to play a simple single-player game; subscription fees that have to ding me $15-20 a month for a game that I honestly cannot play every single day for the fact that I like having a social life outside of the game.

Fact: I have other things to fund in my home other than a gaming hobby. I am perfectly comfortable with spending $0 on any of the following options, and just skipping the entire situation.

Therefore, I break it down to the following results in the Xbone vs. PS4 debate.

1. Both consoles should allow for the couch-crashing and drink having just fine. Further to that point, I'm not interested in staying loyal to a particular exclusive series like Halo, for example - all the ones I'm interested in seem to be cross-platform so far regardless.

2. Xbone offers MORE options than just the "Game" I want to play. PS4 seems to be focused ONLY on the "Game" I want to play. Slight advantage to PS4 here, because I interpret this as being more simple - hopefully.

3. Xbone has introduced the possibility of limitations, fees, even borderline contracts when it comes to the ownership of my games - so much to the point that I will have to jump through a number of hoops when it comes to sharing, trading or lending of what I've already paid money to buy. I understand that these clauses may not ALWAYS be activated, but the fact remains that it is a possibility. PS4 has made no such claims, and doesn't appear to be drifting in that direction. For sheer ease, PS4 wins #3.

4. Xbone requires the "one a day" connection period. PS4 does not at this time. I admit that this is a small issue, given that I plan on having a reliable wifi connection in my new home that the Xbone can work through. The fact is, however, this is an irritant that I can see myself becoming a little frustrated over: I'm not always able to play every day, and the threat of having my system locked until I reconnect sounds rather annoying. What if something is wrong with my wifi because of a service failure? PS4 wins #4 again for the sheer ease.

5. Both Xbone and PS4 will require a monthly or annual subscription for their respective multiplayer or online services (to what extent and for what services exactly, I am not sure). Both systems lose points for that reason - but PS4's services claim to be cheaper. PS4 wins #5 for me for lower cost.

Like I said above, I'm content with just buying none of the above. But, given the opportunity and available funds to just say "Well, sure. I might like a new toy.", I now have #1-5 to consider. PS4 would be my machine of choice - not because of what rampant opinions have told me, paid executives, launch title lists, or the desire to defend a company's product.

So, yeah. If you're going to buy a new gadget, I say just be smart about it - read the instructions, read the warnings, and read the price tag.

 

[MushroomRetainer]

Wow. You've got balls, bro. I respect that. Kinda strange that you posted an "in defense of Xbox One" post and then filled it with stuff that nobody really seriously cares about. The controller? The design? Seriously? Who makes a console choice based on it's aesthetics? Video game consoles are for playing video games. Obvious statement is obvious. You could have ended your post at number 3, since those are the three things that the Internet is really angry about. Everything else is just tertiary. Even exclusives aren't a big sticking point, because both consoles have good exclusive games in the pipe. No one is arguing that the Xbox isn't a technically impressive piece of hardware or that it won't have any good games. No one. I've seen far more people saying things like "Man, it's too bad I won't get to play Sunset Overdrive." than "There is no good reason to own an Xbox One."

And if they are, it's because they're angry and taking cheap shots. The things people are really confused and upset about are Microsoft dipping their toes into the concept of eroding the concept of video game ownership, and forcing a daily internet check-in if you want to use your video game console to play video games. I understand that digital distribution is big and that's the way the industry is going, and the concept of digital ownership is something that companies are going to have to wrestle with, but Microsoft absolutely has not done themselves any favors by complicating the formerly simple process of owning videogames, and then not being absolutely crystal clear with everyone about it. They've been waffling around like crazy since the Xbox One was first revealed, and that just fuels the confusion and the controversy. I find it amusing that you started a post in defense of the Xbox One and it's new consumer model and then screwed up one of the most important arguments you needed to make. It's not even your fault; it's because what you can and can't do with the games you've bought is genuinely confusing and Microsoft hasn't done a good job of making it not confusing.

To your credit, I'm glad you're allowing at least one small concession to the people who aren't fond of the Xbox One with the whole daily online check-in authentication thing. We tend to take Internet connectivity for granted here in the US, but there are many places in the world, and indeed many rural places in this country where it's not a given. Like, I definitely couldn't take the Xbox One with me on a weekend getaway to my family's little shack in the side of the Appalachian Mountains. It's stupid for Microsoft to shoot themselves in the foot like that. Although, to their credit, I believe they did say, straight-up, the same thing you did: If you don't have stable Internet, the Xbox One isn't for you. Seems kind of exclusionary.

Plus, what happens at the end of the Xbox One's life cycle 10 years from now, when Microsoft turns those servers off, or re-purposes them for the next next generation? Assuming there will be one.

Also, no amount of juggling can make $399 the same as $499. Sorry, bro. I understand your point about making sure every console owner is on an even playing field, and I did buy a Wii U even though I wasn't sold on the touchpad, but the fact is that the majority of people just prefer that it was optional. Even if it turns out the PS4 camera is going to cost $100, that still doesn't make the PS4 and XBO pricing even, because people don't have to buy it. It's really that simple. If a consumer would prefer not to pay an extra $100 for a console feature that they don't want, and as a result decides to buy the PS4, without its camera, that seems like a valid, sensible choice to me. I don't see how this works out as a point in defense of the Xbox One. Understanding why Microsoft might want to do something doesn't mean it's a good decision for the consumer. That's what this whole debate is about.

...up to 10 friends can be in your "Family", and can play your games whenever they like, though each game can only be played by one friend at a time. This is "Sharing" games. I have no idea why this feature isn't widely loved - Share games, with close friends, without needing a disc. If Microsoft went down the Sony route and made a snarky video, maybe things would be clearer.
Separately, there's "Giving" games, which can be done to anyone who's been on your friends list for at least 30 days and can only be done once. After giving someone a game, you no longer have it. This is a much less useful feature, but still beats Steam's game giving.

I'm actually glad to have some clarification on this point. Microsoft hasn't done a good job of clarifying how this whole thing works.

 

[Simple Bluff]

1. Used games:
The blockade of selling used games is entirely up to the publisher, so are the fees. What Microsoft has done here is an official way of what already happened before. Remember the Online Passes? That's just like that. Nobody has has to use them. They can.

This is true, but it doesn't mean Microsoft are innocent - they're enabling it.

Now, if EA would decide to be a dick and use it - what would happen? They'd do it on every platform. They won't be interested in holding up Sony's image of the messiah console, they want their money. So afaik, it doesn't matter. The possibilities are there on both platforms.

This isn't true. It's not the same as online passes (which, incidentally, I'm not against), that CAN be used on any platform, even the PS4. However, the option to deny distribution of used games is X1 exclusive. Even if a publisher WOULD want to do it (and I doubt they will, tbh) it could only work on the Xbox One. Buying, selling and trading used games will be available for every physical game on the PS4, regardless of the publisher's whims.

2. Game sharing:
Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting.

IMO, that's incredibly shaky logic. They're imposing convoluted restrictions that have no right to be there, whether or not you yourself consider it ok. You can't deny it wouldn't be just easier without them. And although I do like the idea of digital distribution, not being able to trade physical discs is a huge drawback. If either me, or the person I was borrowing from had a spotty internet connection, the download could take hours. In many cases, swapping physical media would actually be LESS hassle.

This is two separate things.
One is that up to 10 friends can be in your "Family", and can play your games whenever they like, though each game can only be played by one friend at a time. This is "Sharing" games. I have no idea why this feature isn't widely loved - Share games, with close friends, without needing a disc.

I wouldn't go around touting that feature just yet. Microsoft have been very sketchy on the details about this so far. Maybe they just couldn't be arsed talking about it but... well, it seems very unlikely. If it works as well as you says it does (and believe me, I hope you ARE right) then why wouldn't they flaunt it? I know there was an interview with an MC exec that confirmed this, but the interview didn't give the exec's wording, and also admitted that he couldn't give details about this. Also, there's only one source I could find in my admittedly brief search on the web that even said THAT much.

Now, I'm not saying that it's going to be an incredibly restricted feature - that would be hypocritical. I'm just saying you (nor myself, or anyone else) shouldn't be making assumptions just yet. Not until we know everything. And don't get me wrong, I WANT this to be as good as you describe, because it's a fantastic idea. But I think we should wait before forming a proper opinion.

3. 24h offline time:
This is a point I can't say much about. I can think of many reasons why they'd do such a thing, but there's nothing I really want to defend here. For me it's no problem at all, I like my games and consoles (and PC) for the online multiplayer, but I see why it would bother people. On the other hand, I'm sure this is nothing they couldn't change. It happened before, so you can hope. If you know you'll be offline for longer than a day, then definitely don't buy the XBone yet though.

Yeah, unfortunately I'm one of those. I have absolutely no access to the internet at home (I'm currently typing this from my parent's house) so, if I was intending on getting a console, X1 wouldn't be an option for me.

Y'know, the thing is I'm not against all DRM. As I said above, I have no problem with online passes or Project Ten Dollar. The online check-in thing though... it feels like I, a person whom has supported their products for years, am just being shafted for the sake of their own insecurity. And I wouldn't even mind as much if they gave a valid excuse to it, or even tried. Instead they tell us that we just don't get it, but not telling us exactly WHAT we don't get. It's almost arrogant. And I know a product can't be made to tailor for one person's wants, including mine. I get that. But what is it for exactly? How does it benefit their product, or their consumers?

I have no doubt that after a while, maybe a year, they'll remove it. But for the moment it seems they're just seeing how much they can get away with.

For the record, I don't actually think their servers will break though. It's not like SimCity, which tried hosting millions of players' games. This is just a check up thing.

4. Evil spying Kinect:
This wrong, just wrong. It has been confirmed that the Kinect can be turned off completely long ago, and you won't be spied. The Kinect itself is also a fairly useful tool, I own a Kinect 1 and there are some fun games for it out there, and it adds functionality by voice commands etc. I know people don't like being forced to get a product, but it's entirely possible that there will be an "Arcade" edition like with the 360, which is cheaper and delivered without Kinect.

No such thing has even been hinted. There will eventually be one I'm sure, but it's definitely not going to be at launch. But if Microsoft are smart, and I'm sure they are despite all these hiccups, they'll be developing one right now that should be available as soon as possible. But we really can't say anymore until they themselves given us more, and so far they've given us nothing.

But this is besides the point. Why do we need it at all, Microsoft? With the online thing, I can at least make the reasonable presumption that you don't trust me. But why do I need a Kinect? I already have one. It doesn't bloody work, but maybe that's just due to my strong Irish accent. Either way I don't want it. Why don't they sell it separately for the people who DO want it for a hundred bucks, and lower the price of the core console? That'd be a great idea.

The kicker here is that the X1 won't work without it plugged in. What if it gets damaged? Will I not be able to play the X1 at all?

"Why did Microsoft do this in the first place?" you could ask now. To prevent segmentation. This way everyone has the same setup and games can be designed in that way. Apart from that I believe that if people don't try something new over time, things can't evolve.

Maybe it's hard to tell, but I actually liked your OP. It raised valid points. I disagree with nearly all of them, but I do honestly believe that you genuinely prefer the X1 and you're not just being pretentiously contrarian. I like you OP. Can j00 be mah best frendz 4evz pl0x?

But this above comment annoyed me bit. It's PR speak. The architecture can't be that considerably affected by the presence of the Kinect that it would "unify" the system, whatever you think that means. The fact that the the X1 is fully functional without the Kinect (outside of Kinect exclusive games, obviously) is proof of that. I can't imagine the developers of the PS4 are currently running around in circles in the state of utter panic because they don't have a mandatory voice peripheral.

And yeah, I agree they should try new things. But they already did. It was called the Kinect, a motion capture peripheral for the Xbox 360. Some people liked it, some people didn't. But for those that didn't, at least they could plug it out, and go on with their lives. A successful experiment if ever I saw one. Pats on the back, etc.
So that begs the question yet again. Why is it not optional anymore? For realz, liek.

5. Hardware:
Apart from that, Microsoft has the whole cloud computing thing going, and while you might start laughing at me now, this is the future and even Sony knows it.

PS4 utilizes Cloud technology, albeit not to the extent of the X1. And anyway there are problems with the Cloud - for starters, there are latency issues, which may noticeably affect the quality of online gaming depending on where and how they implement it, and it won't work as well for everyone in different parts of the world.
I'm not saying it won't work I'm sure (no sarcasm) that Microsoft will do a good job implementing it. I just want you to be aware that it isn't infallible.

6. Features:
The XBone is an entertainment device, and it's being marketed as such. Personally, I'd be happy if my device could do more, not mad as many others. I can use Skype, watch TV, play games, record, upload and stream... I'm happy about features. It works just like a small PC (I know, PC master race bla bla), and I think that this is good that way. I would like to see a unified experience over all devices one day.

Can't the PS4 do all those things, except TV? Can't pretty much anything that can access the internet do most of that stuff?
Anyhow. The unified system thing is... well whatever your opinion, the Xbox One just isn't the right format. For starters, it's not portable. And a lot of portable devices have a ton of that functionality already.

7. Controller:
For some reason I also found some people complaining about the controller. I can't really understand that, for me the XBox controller has always been the best one on the market right now. Wasn't able to hold a PS4 controller so far, but the PS3 ones were none I could really play with.

Agreed.

8. Design:
The simple design (even though it really shouldn't matter) is used so it can fit anywhere in your living room. It's elegant and I like it. Your choice. Although both consoles don't look too different.

I think they both look crap, to be honest. Maybe I'll like them when I see them up close though.

9. Games/Exclusives:
This is anyone's game. If you like the PS4's exclusives, go buy that. If you like the XBone's games (of which there are more announced at the moment), go buy that.

Fun fact: As it stands, the Xbox One currently has more confirmed exclusives. I think they announced something like... 9? PS4 only have about half that. But still, quality over quantity. As you say, it depends on the individual. Personally, I think both have interesting titles.

10. Price:
I know, I know, money doesn't grow on trees. However, the console price is essentially the same for both. What makes up the other 100 dollars are the extra things in the package, like the Kinect...

Then they should've made it bloody optional then. No, I'm not letting that go. *Crosses arms, puffs out cheeks*

...And Gold doesn't count as an argument either, Microsoft and Sony both do the paying for multiplayer now. And so far, Microsoft's servers seem more powerful (waiting for statement on Sony's side), and they've been that way in the past as well.

Fair point, but PS+ is a far better deal.

 

[Requiem191]

That piece of hardware is going to dictate how you use your product,when you use it,it's going to force you to check in like someone on parole,and has a built in camera that can record everything you do and there is no way you can turn it off.

So no this is not exaggerated and the Kinect spying thing is not false,people have a right to be pissed and if you don't like it then leave the thread.

Oh come on, this isn't how discussion works. You can't just tell someone to leave a thread if they don't like something. I hate this mentality that a lot of people have on the internet. I disagree with the guy you directed your post towards, but come on, if we try to stifle any form of discussion, we're defeating the purpose of talking about this stuff at all. "If you don't like it, you can leave" isn't a legitimate way to deal with people who have opinions different from yours, especially on the internet.

After having this argument pulled on me the same way for arguing against the Xbox One on another site, I just have to speak up for that guy. It's a silly and stupid way to deal with discussion, so don't do it.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

You know, if they decided to let me buy and use their console without a Kinect at a cheaper price point I'd seriously reconsider my stance. But what evidence is there of that actually happening?

I've seen the kind of space needed for a Kinect to work properly. I used one myself in fact. But I don't like talking to a camera, and I don't need anymore crap in my bedroom. Even if you can turn it off, it has to be plugged in for your games to work. Needless hoops that Microsoft feels as though they can get away with making people jump through.

I also don't watch TV, I don't use Skype, I have no intention of streaming or making videos.

And the price comes back to the Kinect doesn't it? Without the Kinect it's entirely possible to lower the entire cost of the system. I don't mind splashing out some cash if I want everything that I'll be paying for, but when I know the Kinect will just sit there forever turned off facing the other way with a cloth over the sensor I can't justify spending extra money on the Xbone when I could easily get a PS4 for a much cheaper price and less bullshit that I have to deal with.

And in the event that I lose my internet for more than a day (which is certainly a possibility) I'll still be able to play my single player, offline games.

And by not buying an Xbone I'll be voting with my wallet against this kind of anti consumer practice. Annoying DRM that only serves to piss off legitimate customers and slow down pirates at best.

 

[Requiem191]

You have a point....but I hate it when people just brush off privacy concerns like it's no big deal.I can handle different opinions but anyone who starts dismissing complaints about a system that has so many anti consumer features deserves to get called out.

That's true, so call him out by continuously bringing up arguments and facts and defenses that counter his own argument. His main issue is that he believes Mob mentality explains everything, but it simply doesn't. Telling him to leave doesn't help him or you and that's why we discuss anything to begin with.

Better to keep him around and have a dissenting opinion you can use in some way rather than not having it.

 

[drednoahl]

snip

I'm with ya, buddy. I have already preordered mine. Just be prepared for some venom as its alot of that going around right now. I have been accused of being a microsoft employee, and of a person that is going to ruin games for gamers by purchasing an Xbox One. I'm not kidding.

I hope you meet the requirements because even if I wanted one I don't - link below.

Xbox One Requirements:

Requires broadband internet (ISP fees apply), a Microsoft account and an account on Xbox Live in an Xbox One-supported Xbox Live country/region, and 720p or higher HDMI-compatible TV. To receive live TV via broadcast or cable, supported receiver device (television tuner or cable/satellite set top box) with HDMI output and HDMI cable required (all sold separately).

Additional subscriptions, internet speed and/or requirements apply for some features.

Kinect Sensor for Xbox One (included) and periodic system software updates required for continued use; significant updates may be required during set-up and over time (ISP fees apply).

Some games not transferable and have no resale value; restrictions on games usage apply.

Games, Kinect and accessories made for Xbox 360 or original Xbox will not work with Xbox One.

Xbox One system software uses a significant amount of storage; less internal storage will be available to users. 500 GB = 500 billion bytes.

You must accept Xbox Terms of Use (including Xbox software terms and game license terms), Microsoft Services Agreement, and Xbox One 1-year limited warranty. Some games have additional license terms.
Terms include binding arbitration with class action waiver to resolve disputes.

Additional requirements will apply.


http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/pre-order-xbox-one/disclaimer

 

[TomWiley]

It's so very refreshing to see these kind of threads that go against the myopic Internet masses and and comes with an original opinion - or rather - a well-founded and not overly biased and jaundiced opinion.

It really isn't. You are wrong on so many levels it isn't even funny. However, I am lazy and don't want to repeat what nearly every other person in this thread has said, so please read them. Re-Read them. Read them until it is engraved into your skull.

Then maybe, just maybe, you might get it.

How am I wrong when I'm not making any arguments? My post was like two lines, is it really too much to ask that you just read and comprehend that?

 

[rob_simple]

It's nice that the OP tried to be as objective as possible --I think you almost succeeded, for what it's worth-- but absolutely anyone making excuses for Microsoft at this point, and that is all they are, still comes off as a battered spouse trying to reason why they stay with their abusive dickhead of a partner.

I'm awfully sorry if I do appear like that to you, but I don't know how else to phrase it. This is really just my personal, honest opinion. For me both consoles are equally good, but as someone with a lot of Microsoft devices/services, I'm choosing the XBox One as it fits better to how I want my console to be.

'But Microsoft can change!'
'He only hurts us because he loves us!'
'Sure I'm still allowed to go see my friends; I just need to let him know where I am at all times and stop and come home as soon as he says.'

Okay, I think I dragged that metaphor on long enough.

I had to laugh.

Sorry if it gave the impression I thought ill of you, I sort of understand your stance, even if I don't agree with it. It's not often I won't remain impartial when it comes to console wars but, the way I personally see it, Microsoft are swinging for a miss here.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong, though, I do hope you enjoy the Xbone, and I mean that genuinely; at the end of the day we're all just playing games to have fun.

 

[lacktheknack]

I saw this, and my first thought was "DEVIL'S ADVOCACY: THE THREAD".

After reading it, I can confirm that.

If nothing else, Microsoft shouldn't get out scot-free because their damage control has been so, so very awful.

 

[TomWiley]

That piece of hardware is going to dictate how you use your product,when you use it,it's going to force you to check in like someone on parole,and has a built in camera that can record everything you do and there is no way you can turn it off.

So no this is not exaggerated and the Kinect spying thing is not false,people have a right to be pissed and if you don't like it then leave the thread.

Alright, hold up just a second here. What if, and yes this is a big if, you could actually TURN OFF the Kinect at anytime, making it impossible for Microsoft so spy on you while you're playing CoD? Would that do anything for you?

Because it would undermine the entire reason you're pissed to begin with, wouldn't it?

 

[Basiritz]

Anybody who defends the lack of being able to share share MY games by saying "Its not TOO limiting" FUCK YOU. I payed money for it. It belongs to me. It is my property. I dont care what any bullshit EULA says. I bought it its mine. Online games may be different since other people may be affected by what I do with it (modding, cheating etc) but single player games are MINE. Any attempt to limit what I do with it is an attempt to control ME. And NOONE gets away with that.

 

[nevarran]

The whole "10 family members" thing, sounds great to me.
I live in Italy and most of my friends live in Bulgaria. So right now I can't give them any games, DRM or not.
See, if I can share my entire library with them, now that's something.

So, if my 10 people doesn't need to verify their kinship with me via blood test or something, I'm in.

 

[Something Amyss]

I expected more apologetics threads by now. Let's se what this one has to offer.

1. Used games:

They're specifically enabling a loathed practice. That's still a bad thing. It's also unnecessary.

2. Game sharing:

Someone already pointed out the limitations here. The inherent problem is that they've made a wholly unnecessary leap in blocking normal sharing in favour of control-freak levels of bossiness, and you're trying to justify it because at least when they're done limiting you they opted to toss you a bone. It's like someone giving you candy after they robbed you.

3. 24h offline time:

The biggest problem here is that a lot of people don't know when they're going to be offline for more than 24 hours. I mean, I've got friends literally not connected to the internet, but there are those who will experience connection problems. And there's also Microsoft itself.

I don't know how long you've been a 360 gamer, but I date back almost to launch. I didn't have Gold back then, but I was an owner and purchased many games through their online. If you were an owner in the early days and you swapped out your console, even through Microsoft as part of a warranty issue, you were relegated to always online status. I spent a lot of time unable to play my purchased games because Microsoft couldn't keep their act together while my internet connection was fine. I could, for example, still play ONLINE on my PS3. Not that I had any games I wanted to, but I was able to.

I still have two XBox downloaded games (and one expansion) I haven't been able to play since the first "license transfer." One of them happened less than a week after I purchased it. Microsoft doesn't offer refunds and I fought with them for weeks before I finally gave up.

If you want to trust these guys that implicitly, go for it. I don't.

4. Evil spying Kinect:

This one is true, and follows the old adage "never let the facts get in the way of a good rant."

Microsoft failed to clarify this fast enough, and I'm sure the news was buried under the hysteria. Still, you CAN turn Kinect off.

5. Hardware:

I haven't seen any complaints about the hardware beyond PC gamers who mock both consoles. And honestly, the specs are about comparable to what I've go ready to install on my PC. I feel those complaints are kind of valid, but if people are bashing one and not the other, there is something wrong.

However, if you think "the cloooooooud" is something only Microsoft can use, then all I can say is "lolwot"

6. Features:

They're both entertainment devices. I'm betting the only noteworthy difference will be the TV passthrough, which is not all that big a feature. You still need a cable box and such, after all. They didn't make an all-in-one device, they made an add-on that nobody really needs. I'm not entirely sure the demand is there. This is why they get mocked.

Also, for the price of the XBone, you can get an actual small PC and have real PVR functions.

Emulating a PC is stupid, IMO, and I mean no offense by that. They've stripped away the standard benefits of a console and given us a PC experience for a PC price without the positives PC gaming offers.

7. Controller:

The controller actually looks quite awesome. I can't justify attacks on it. I'd have to hold one to know whether or not it WORKS good, but based on what I've got, I like it. I hope they make a version of PC.

8. Design:

They're both ugly. I don't particularly hold that against them, though.

9. Games/Exclusives:

I'm curious as to how this plays out. We've already got Smartglass-only content for DR3, and I'm wondering how much other stuff will play out that way. I'm curious to see if Sony plays the same game.

Still, the exclusives aren't mind-blowing on either end.

10. Price:

Since the price is essentially the same for both systems, including something a lot of people don't want and charging more for it is a dumb idea.

The amount of pre-orders is basically the same for both (according to Amazon).

Just a note: Sales ranks are not actual sales figures. The difference between rank 1 and 1 could be 1 sale or 1 trillion. Saying that they're about the same because One is #2 is inaccurate and disingenuous. I'd also note that the PS4 takes up both the #1 and #3 slots. That should be veeeeery telling here.

The XBone will grab a lot of the casuals

So you assume and Microsoft hopes.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

Snip of the Colossus

The OP is wrong in many ways, but you addressed most of them here so there's no need for me to repeat on these topics. However, there are two other points from the OP that need addressing:

As Yahtzee already said, you don't have to buy any console, but people feel like they do, so that's what causes these problems. That divides sites into either a PS4 fanbase or an XBone fanbase, because others just don't want to join a thread where people are going wild about the other console.

This is an assumption if I've ever seen one. Many a PC gamer such as myself are also paying close attention to the next console generation. Whether it be to see if a console can win them over, seeing how much many multiplatform games will be held back by the next consoles due to consoles often being the standard for what AAA games are designed to run on, or to keep an eye on any anti-consumer policies that console manufacturers or publishers might try to standardize; you can be certain that they are also paying close attention to what happens here.

There's also the fact that most people realize that there are more than two options, with many people planning to shift towards PC gaming after seeing these consoles. There's also the new Wii U audience thanks to E3, even if they're most likely smaller than the other groups.

Long story short, playing this off as if most people are only picking two sides is blatantly wrong no matter how one looks at it.

It changes nothing if you say Microsoft is doomed a thousand times, look at SimCity - everyone said they're not going to buy it, but it still sold well.

You have no idea about why exactly SimCity sold well, do you? Like with Diablo 3 and especially Aliens: Colonial Marines, people expected them to be good games and bought them on day-1 or preordered them before it actually came to light how bad and non-functional they were. By the time people realized how non-functional / misleading those games were, it was already too late and the sale was already made. SimCity and Diablo 3 in particular could not be returned either, so people were stuck with them after purchase.

Yes, SimCity sold well. However, it sold almost entirely off of pre-release hype and would not sold nearly as well if people knew about the issues they ended up facing beforehand. There's a reason many people swore off of preorders after playing it or A:CM.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

Nope nope nope nope nope.

The used games thing is horrible. They directly set the precedent that you don't own games. They have said games are a service not a product. Having the system available to publishers is completely evil. It encourages them to use said system.

I'm also getting pretty sick of people defending the Xbone with anecdotal crap. [i/]Well I don't share games that much, so it just isn't a problem![/i] But it is a problem. It's a problem for many people, but most importantly, it's a problem of principle. YOU don't own your games. You get to do with your games what we ALLOW you to do with your games.
Same with the online. This is a MASSIVE problem for many MANY people and just because you have decent internet doesn't make it a decent console.

You also failed to mention another huge complaint: The complete lack of backwards compatibility. If you want your arcade games, play on 360? Fuck you Microsoft.

This console needs to be shunned. It needs to fail. Microsoft is tiptoeing forward more and more, taking more and more control away from consumers. The more these practices are accepted, the further the companies will go. The Xbone is a LEAP in that direction and it must be met by resistance.

I will give you the point on the controller. I really don't get why anyone would complain about that. It's basically just a sleeker 360 controller.

 

[Maximum Bert]

It's not pure mob mentality, and I'm completely fine with anyone wanting buy a PS4. But a lot of what is going right now is indeed just an angry mob declaring the PS4 and Sony as the "holy angel of gamers".
The XBox one introduce new things and also new restrictions, but on top of that a lot of new advantages.
And you know, if the games are amazing, the console details don't matter. I feel like I'm kinda misusing Yahtzee's opinion here, but consoles are for games. If they are good games for a console, people will buy it.

Please list all these advantages because games wise I see very little they have just upset what everyone expects of a console i.e easy game access and given very little in return, now there are hoops you have to jump through. As for people praising Sony thats just because of how bad Microsoft messed up completely misreading what people wanted and expected while Sony just went more or less business as usual.

Feel free to not buy an XBone, nobody is forcing you to do so.
And it won't, I'm pretty sure about that. We've been through this so many times, and the casual customer simply doesn't are, because for them, it works. That's all they want, it working and games. They don't care about how bad the restrictions may be according to your opinion.

Thanks I wont and I never said they were also I dont remember going through anything also its working and has games lol thats the bare minimum people dont see that as anything its what they expect if it didnt do either of those it wouldnt even be a games console. If that is all people wanted then they wouldnt care which platform they got now would they, and its not my opinion that they dont care about restrictions its my opinion that many do care and it will factor into their choice of console when weighing up the pros and cons. Also they do tend to care about price so offering a more restrictive less powerful console with almost no benefits over it competition and in fact many negatives may effect the average customer after all a console is not an impulse buy many people do actually research and ask before buying one.

See, a lot of people don't want a Kinect, so it's irksome that even if you want an Xbone but don't want a Kinect, it's included in the package. If you describe it as an extra bonus thing they're throwing in then it sounds better, but if you want to use the Kinect to justify the $100 price difference, it just highlights the fact that you're being made to purchase this unwanted accessory upfront. Plus I doubt anyone who gets a PS4 is just dying to get whatever new version of Move that might be coming out.

I didnt say this please amend the quote

I know that they're forcing it onto you. I don't work for Microsoft, so I can't really tell you for sure why they chose that way. I explained my theory in the first post, but I see that it still upsets people. The Kinect is really just something that makes things more fun and more interactive. It's like the new Wii U controller.
It's no decision that I'd consider as particularly well solved, but I understand in a way. I don't think customers will care about the higher price too much, at least as of now, but that's something we'll only be able to see when it's out. Apart from that, prices are something that can change, so there's that.

I think the Kinect bubble burst long ago unless this one is flat out amazing I reckon it too will just get ignored as just another gimmick also like I said I think many will care about the higher price especially for something they dont really want but yes prices can change and Microsoft need to at least match Sony TBH. As for kinect making things more fun for most games it just seemed to make things less responsive and more annoying it was a gimmick just like the Wii controller the only difference is Nintendo got their first and reaped the benefits while after everyone realised it was mostly shit Microsoft and Sony came in with their sorry efforts. Microsoft managed to catch the last spark of attention with the Kinnect but that died fast and I have a feeling people were hoping that it and move stayed dead.

Really all Microsoft had to do was say heres the new console its more powerful it dosent shit itself and die if you look at it wrong and the gold fee is dropped not only did they not do that they actually added shit nobody wanted or asked for just for their own benefit and then hiked up the price. Also they are taking the piss with listing some of the plus points just look at this from their website on how licensing works on the Xbox One (because its so fucked up it needs an explanation now)

[quote/]Share access to your games with everyone inside your home: Your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited access to all of your games. Anyone can play your games on your console--regardless of whether you are logged in or their relationship to you.[/quote]

Wow thanks Microsoft I mean fkin ay now anyone can come round to my house and play my games on my console thats amazing this is the future except its what we have been doing since the dawn of home gaming anyway but I guess it good the Kinnect dosent ring the police or something because your friend is playing your game.

There is little reason to get a Xbox One as a console over any of its competitors including a PC except for the games but unlike previously where the games were the be all and end all now its hmmm are the games good enough to outweigh the large negatives and make no mistake this is the console with more negatives than almost any before and that shouldnt even be a factor you shouldnt even have to have that debate with yourself.

The Xbox One is bad no matter how you dress it up and people are letting Microsoft know. Defend it all you want but they have really damaged their public image with this console and it could have been so easily sidestepped as well. People dont like restrictions unless the payoff is worth it and I think many have made clear they dont see the pay off as worth it with the Xbox One.

It could still sell well but that will be largely inspite of its features rather than because of them.

 

[JetFury]

Anti consumer policies make the console unattractive right from the beginning. I won't support a system that's gonna chip away at us. No matter what games are offered

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

In the end I think it comes down to whether or not you think the new conveniences are worth tolerating the restrictions for. The 24 hour check-in seems a little too strict, but everything else is more or less what I'd expect from a system that allows you to download games that you've bought physically.

I think the issue for many people is that most of us believe they made the downloading games to the harddrive thing just so they can have the excuse for the 24 hour check in. Faster games can always be argued, but I had lightning fast reading from discs and I had abnormally slow load times from games installed. So this has to be proven to a few before we can write this off as just a bad design. For most, I'd say, it really just seems intentional just for the check-in.

Still, for me, these are the kinds of inconveniences that are driving me away from PC gaming. The only thing keeping me here is the fact that I prefer mouse and keyboard controls and that I love the PC's exclusives. The conveniences of Steam are slowly being outweighed by the restrictions and I can't help but feel that the Xbone has fewer conveniences and more restrictions when you consider my situation (spotty internet, poor). I think the best thing Microsoft can do for their PR is ensure that game prices compete with PC game prices. Many PC gamers will only tolerate the fact that they're only buying the publisher's permission to play the game, rather than the game itself is because they can get so many games for so cheap.

As a PC gamer as well (now primarily as my fourth 360 RRoD'ed...), I can say that I have a good half of my games as DRM free. They aren't the big names... well a few are. And some had the choice to play by its self or join with Steam. I've chosen to join with steam because I somewhat like the library being in on place. And the patching system is ok.

If the Xbone's features outweigh it's restrictions for you, then buy it. Your buying it won't affect my own experience... I hope :']

It will. If the Xbox One does even moderately well, next consoles will have more restrictions and the like. This is the testing ground to finally take ownership away from the gamers. Anyone willing to blithely be ok with that are pushing their agenda.

The simple question I asked myself was - what am I getting that the PS4 hasn't got for the extra $100? From what I can see, all I'm getting is additional inconvenience.

A truthful Microsoft slogan would be "Xbox One! Pay More to be Less of an Owner!"

I'll keep saying this anyone who will listen. Look up the Microsoft Zune [http://www.zdnet.com/grab-and-backup-your-zune-hd-apps-today-microsoft-changing-services-7000003508/]. When they discontinued it, they took away features. Features you paid for. For really no reason. They never explained it, and I don't think they will ever care to. Are people really willing to pay 500 dollars for less control of a console from a company that's already shown it will take away from their consumers without a second thought?

 

[Chappy0]

I would dispute your points but Dexter (as Kaulen stated) already did that perfectly.

But, one more interesting thing that I learned today concerning the Xbone; it'll only working in a chosen few countries upon it's release. Source, Xbox One pre-order product information guide: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/pre-order-xbox-one/disclaimer

Xbox One Requirements:

Requires broadband internet (ISP fees apply), a Microsoft account and an account on Xbox Live in an Xbox One-supported Xbox Live country/region, and 720p or higher HDMI-compatible TV. To receive live TV via broadcast or cable, supported receiver device (television tuner or cable/satellite set top box) with HDMI output and HDMI cable required (all sold separately).


Chosen countries:

Xbox One-Supported Xbox Live Countries

Australia
Austria
Belgium
Brazil
Canada
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Ireland
Italy
Mexico
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Russia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
United States



So yeah, I'm not seeing a lot of evidence of the Xbone being a good console.