Why the XBone is a good console

[Kastrenzo]

Can we please stop calling it the XbOne?

Why not X1.
Or XBomb

 

[Remus]

Lewis Black just gave the XBone the finger. Its only redeeming feature is a robot operating off the kinect that can serve beers. The failure that is the upcoming XBone is now bleeding outside the regular gaming circles. Things are really going to get interesting. Next up: Bill Maher New Rules.

 

[drednoahl]

Oh my bad, I included the wrong link with my original post. You must have quoted me before I updated with the right one. But how is it out of context when it directly confirms that you can turn off "all the capabilities of the Kinect"?

Phil Spencer is talking about in game - if the game doesn't require the kinect, that's one of the reasons the Kotaku article you originally linked was necessary and came out after the interview you now link. In game, most of the "features" on the xbone are down to the publisher or dev, but out of game it's a different story altogether and this is true of the kinect. It's an old quote and we've had more up to date information since then.

I expect that most devs will demand the kinect is always on during gameplay so they can use crappy AI to either cheat to make the game more intense, or ease off if you're not playing well using "the power of the cloud" to make single player games a thing of the past and always online a demand for AI adjustment (DRM justification.) Finishing a game like Dark Souls by your own skill will be a thing of the past - pulling the right face for kinect, hyperventilating and hitting the buttons just the right way will be the method of choice for a lot of xbone gamers to get those achievements they desire. I don't think that's good for gaming at all. That technique is called "shoot the robot then shoot the mom" by the way. Also if you've played a game for too long the devs/chose could chose to make the game boring so you buy another game, or maybe some DLC to liven it up. Again, I don't think this is good for gaming. Microsoft might not have intended for the kinect to be used this way, but if I can see happening you can be sure that money grubbing publishers will exploit it to their advantage at the cost of the gamer.

 

[mKeRix]

Alright, I kind of skimmed through the posts that were added to the topic after I left. As predicted, a lot of it was pro-Sony, but oh well. This will probably be my last post in here, as I don't see too much to discuss anymore. A lot of the people posting just repeat themselves about things that have already been discussed before, and sometimes even bring arguments that are already proven wrong. However, I hope that in the mind of some who might have read this thread, I reached my goal: making clear that all this hype is definitely overstated. Therefor I'd like to thank everyone that either decided to voice up as an XBox buyer (which takes guts to do on this community at the moment) or discussed with me by bringing up good arguments - I think that the outcome of that discussion depicts the advantages and disadvantages of the console pretty well.

But, there's one post by [user]Dexter111[/user] which he'd probably put a lot of time into, so I'll reply to him only now and hope that the others find satisfying answers to their questions and opinions on all the other posts here.

You seem like a rather ardent Xbox ?defender??, so I?m sure arguing with you won?t make much sense, but maybe it?ll get some sense into bystanders? so here it goes:

I'm here for arguing, and I'm not some diehard XBox fan. I played on PC more than I ever did on the 360. However I will buy an XBox One (if I buy any that is, reasons at the end of the post).

Wrong. Microsoft instated said policy and approached publishers for it, there is nothing ?optional? about it for you as a consumer.
In their very own words: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license
The ?optional? part doesn?t lie in blocking used games, that is a given. The optional part is if they don?t allow you to sell any of your games at all or publishers will allow to sell games at ?participating retailers? (to their conditions of course).

Not wrong. From what I see, I said exactly what is on there, with additions from other official statements.
Your quotes show that the whole used game selling is completely optional, it doesn't matter what it is defaulted to, it's optional since you can choose. Microsoft hands all decisions over this to the publishers. It even lets third party publishers choose if they want to have any exclusive deals with any game retailers or not.
Microsoft Studios however (their own publisher) will do deals with retailers, with whom is not known. And that doesn't matter too much, as they only publish a small amount of the games.

Wrong. Again, in their very own words: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license
It clearly states that game publishers again can allow you to give your game to a friend (they don?t have to) and each game can only be given once.
Anything that you stated can?t be read out of this paragraph, it doesn?t say how they want to make sure that these people are indeed your family members, it contains new vocabulary like ?shared games library? that hasn?t been assigned any meaning yet. It doesn?t even say if they can play one of your games while you play another or not e.g. if there is a Login restriction to one person at once.

Renting and Loaning are out altogether.

Not wrong once again.
Literally everything (except for the publisher's choice, which was something to be expected after the first paragprah) is in my first post, just like you quoted it. I even quoted another user's version that was more clear. I don't know if you haven't read everything completely or if you used the unedited copy of my post for whatever reason, but yeah - it's all right there.
And renting/loaning isn't excluded either, Redbox has already something going regarding that. They will expand on their possibilities though, if they do as promised.

Wrong. If people should have learned anything from the Diablo III and Sim City debacles then that this ?isn?t any problem for me? is a fallacy.
People are also concentrating too much on what can go wrong on *their* side of the connection to try and explain this away, when the problem often lies with the provider.

Leaving aside the obvious direct consequences there?s additionally dozen of ?ways? this will indirectly affect everyone gullible enough to buy into this system in ways of eliminating ownership rights as a concept for games, what they are ?allowed? to do with their games by their new master and it will be a major problem with future-proofing. (What happens when the Microsoft servers go down? People can still play ?PC? and console games from the 70s and 80s fine, the ?Xbox One? might have a relatively short time-spam.)

Not as wrong as you'd made it appear to be.
The 24h limit isn't good, and I'm aware of the consequences this could maybe have. I stated clearly that this is nothing I could really defend. However, speaking from experience, I'm fairly certain that Microsoft won't have too many problems with their servers, they have a lot of experience. This could be completely wrong, but server outages really shouldn't be the big thing to worry about here.
Future-proofing is indeed an interesting question. Nothing I can defend, all I can do is hope that they will eventually just remove the need for the servers, at least before their support ends.

Partially Wrong.
Again in Microsoft?s own words: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy
This basically just says that you can pull it from the electrical outlet and then it?s off. While the console is running it has to always be connecting. They haven?t exactly explained what ?Pausing Kinect? does.
So when is it?
What does constitute this ?explicit permission?? Signing an EULA containing a privacy section enough?

A Microsoft Exec has also said years ago that they may use it to record objects: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/kinects-camera-could-record-data-for-advertisers/

I don?t know why this doesn?t seem to bother that many people, it personally would bother me a lot.

They confirmed you being able to turn it off completely or just enable certain feature. That was mentioned so often in the thread, with so many articles proving it. As for their explicit permission, there's plenty of services that have this sentence in their ToS and people don't complain. You probably signed up for one of these yourself. You just have this horror vision of the big devil Microsoft giving everyone your data right now.
I'm aware of the patents, but Sony also patented a lot of DRM procedures. It's not a valid argument until that is actually announced. Otherwise I could just say that Sony will add even worse DRM themselves, but I can't, since they're not going to so far. See? It doesn't count.
I don't see why it would bother me too much. Google and any other ad network is already collecting data from me and showing me ads based off what they found. At least I get ads I might be interested in, not just random stuff.

Wrong. As someone already said, the PS3 seems to be more powerful: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-spec-analysis-xbox-one

There were also rumors that Microsoft clocked down the GPU of the console to only about ~900GFlops because of problems in order to prevent another "RROD" disaster and they are having problems with eSRAM yields: http://www.gamechup.com/microsoft-has-underclocked-xbox-one-gpu-clocks-having-esram-yield-problems/

In regards to cloud gaming, that is a blatant lie.
Especially the article at the end is worth reading though: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

Again, yes and no. There may be a power difference according to what people have found out so far. Will it really matter though? Take my Windows Phone example. More power doesn't automatically mean everything is better. And will the customer notice? No.
I'm aware about what cloud computing is, but thanks. I did however already say that this is still a very new technology, but it's something that is being developed. There's attempts to utilize it, like Forza's AI system, but that's still very early in the game. It's not wrong to research new possibilities. If we wouldn't, we wouldn't have all the inventions we have now. It's the potential of the Xbone's power growing over time.

Neutral. You are probably referring to their initial reveal conference that focused only on TV TV TV TV SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS. It should be rather clear that this is a gaming console though and people won?t buy hardware for $500 to do what their WDTV Live or Roku can do for under $100 or to use it as an advanced remote. Concentrating on that gives you prudence on where their priorities lie though (which didn?t seem to be gaming that much). They did kind of present a lot (and only) games at E3. So I don?t know if that will be a major issue.

That's the thing, it's not just a gaming console. It's an entertainment device.
It's not aiming to do just gaming, they are trying to make this an all in one device. And it's not a bad try. Everything I'd want to do is available there, including many features that I don't have with any other products. Their marketing reflects that, a lot of the focus has been on entertainment so far.

This is only my opinion, but I personally liked the new Controller with the improved Thumbsticks and D-Pad, it?s something I?d like to have for my PC. It?s about the only thing I liked about it though.

Personal choice, nothing I'd wanted to emphasize to make the XBone look better or anything.

I guess that depends on your perspective and taste, but the PS4 has better hardware and seems to be a lot smaller than the Xbone.

Yep, personal choice once again. The XBone is designed to fit anywhere though.

Wrong. One console costs $399, the other $499, there?s no amount of whitewashing that is going to change that. A lot of people don?t like or want the Kinect, especially since it has to be always connected for the damn thing to work, see above.

Yes and no. The price tag is indeed different. The price/value is the same.
Many people not wanting the Kinect is also something that was discussed a couple times in this thread, but to sum it up: it's not nice, but understandable.

And as I told someone before:

Every single sentence in your long post is saying something in defense of practices that will actively harm and disadvantage you, it is mindboggling how people get into that mindset in the first place.

That's partly the point of the post: to get these false rumors out of your head. I didn't add any real advantages because I felt like that would just cause even more hate, but I will do so now at the end of the post. My main post is really just there to defend the console from false accusations I came across, if you want to word it like that.

It wouldn't be so infuriating if I knew that you'd be paid by Microsoft or something, but assuming that isn't the case I really, really don't get it.

I'm not paid by Microsoft. I'm paying them by buying and using their products and services. The reason why I did this, created a thread in favor of the XBone in the relatively pro PS4 Escapist forums is above.

What kind of advantages or benefits do you get from any of these policy being inflicted upon you with some of the newest games that you feel the need to defend it is what I'd like to know.

I'll tell you what my advantages are, even though I didn't want to stir up more hate by doing so:

entertainment thanks to games and other services
friends playing with me
good servers for multiplayer etc/good online service in general
good exclusives that I want (personal opinion)
possibility of sharing games with my long distance girlfriend without having to send a bluray across the whole world
connectivity throughout my Microsoft ecosystem
fun

It?s funny that you are using ?original? opinion. Because opinions can be original a lot, but that doesn?t make them right or correct by any measure. In full knowledge that I?m godwinning ?gas chambers are great? might be an ?original? opinion, I would much deny that it is a right or correct one though.

Any opinion can be right when proven. I gave enough evidences and reasons for mine to be considered as correct (or acceptable at least). But it's also my personal opinion, and saying that someone is stupid (which you didn't, but others did around here) for buying an Xbone is wrong (and bullying). It's our choice. Some like the Xbone, some the PS4. As I said, according to Amazon the preorders have been about the same for both sides.

So overall, thank you for taking the time to search all that information up. While you were right with some (which I already said to be right before mostly, but the thread is too long to read everything I guess), many things you said were either overstated or not read correctly, at least in connection to my post.

Anyways, this is a big console war all over again. I guess I'll just have to go and talk about the Xbone on other sites until things have calmed down here. I did enjoy talking to some of you though and am slightly impressed with the popularity this thread got.
The choice of buying is yours in the end. I'm happy with my choice, it's the product I want.
To close my post, this is nice article by someone else about all the things that have been discussed here mostly, with a similar outcome like this thread (I'm talking about the opinions we've discussed, not the masses of posts for Sony repeating the same things).

 

[Lightknight]

You're just apologizing a bunch of things to try and claim that they're not as bad as people are making them out to be. We're not having to do this with other consoles. It's a bunch of small actions and each one takes them down a peg in real ways. Both the PS4 and Xbone play games. Both of them will likely deliver a lot of fun. But when comparing the two, Microsoft has put them at a disadvantage in nearly every category. It isn't that the Xbone sucks or anything along those lines. It's that they've forced things onto the consumer that limit market competition and choice on our side. This is a great console if you're an EA-esque company. But it's not a consumer friendly one.

It's a relatively simple issue. The ps4 has gone out of its way to satisfy the customer with very few negatives. They've been incredibly savy this time around whereas I thought they'd quite clearly lost their mind in the ps3 generation and they suffered for it.

Maybe all these big names have agreed to each have a generation where the others look stupid or at least one looks stupid.

 

[TomWiley]

In game, most of the "features" on the xbone are down to the publisher or dev, but out of game it's a different story altogether and this is true of the kinect. It's an old quote and we've had more up to date information since then.

Alright, it feels like we're discussing what Microsoft has said, or hasn't said, or which statement is reliable or not. So let's turn to Microsoft itself, seeing as well - Microsoft ought to be on authority on well, Microsoft.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy

The Microsoft article states that you can customize what the Kinect can see or her in privacy settings, that you you can pause/turn-off the Kinect sensor while playing (although developers can of course make games that require the Kinect be turned on) and no date gathered by the Kinect will leave your Xbox without your permission.

Again, this is on Microsoft's official website. If this isn't reliable - nothing is.

Doesn't sound like the Kinect is as much of a privacy concern that people like to think it is.

 

[AuronFtw]

Can we please stop calling it the XbOne?

Why not X1.
Or XBomb

No. When the system is designed to put a cock in your ear, why would you call it anything else?

 

[TheWanderingFish]

It's so very refreshing to see these kind of threads that go against the myopic Internet masses and and comes with an original opinion - or rather - a well-founded and not overly biased and jaundiced opinion.

Oh, so if the opinion doesn't agree with yours, then its not worth hearing? As if what you have to say, the brushing off of opposing opinion by claiming they're nothing more than the biased, knee-jerk reactions of the mob, isn't entirely myopic in and of itself.

That isn't what he said at all. It is simply nice to see people offering an alternate point of view. Nothing more, nothing less.

OT: That was a nice original evaluation. Like has been said, no one has to buy either. Honestly, I've never been a Sony guy, but the check in once every 24h really hurts. It is unnecessary, and for that reason, it shouldn't be part of the console. I understand their reasoning, but completely disagree with it.
I may be jumping to PC...

 

[CinosNroca]

I'm usually one who just reads forums and rarely posts, but in this case I just have to throw my two cents on the pile. I'm gonna use the numbers from the original post to clarify what I'm talking about.

1) Used Games:
The only thing that confuses me is: I will still be able to sell the hard copy (if purchased) to Gamestop or whatever company is deemed worthy? If so, then I don't see what the issue here is. So they dictate which stores to sell to, not that there are many used game stores other than the ones listed anyways, but at least one can still sell them!

2) Game Sharing:
In my opinion, I find this not to be a problem. Maybe because I shun most of the human race. I do live with roommates who have similar gaming interests however, so letting them play my games (and vice versa) works for me.

3) 24hr Offline Time:
Again, this isn't a huge problem for me. Yes I may have to dine on dog food every once in a while just to pay for internet, but hey at least I'm not bored! (haha) Also, I have a theory on why they did this. When the console is connected, it serches for updates and patches and such, right?. This could alleviate that 'Day 1 update' that many of us are plagued with. In fact, it may even solve the entire issue of downloading updates. If one could set it so that it automatically logs in during the time when one is sleeping or at work, then those updates could be downloaded and installed, ready to go when one next logs in. To me, being able to pop in a disk and immediately play is worth the hassle. As an added bonus I don't even have to log on, the console does it for me! This could ALMOST be a benefit.... *takes cover*

4) The Evil Spying Kinect:
Now this is the topic that REALLY burns me. First of all, since when did Microsoft, the Government, or ANY company for that matter take an intrest in what some random Joe Schmoe does with his free time? These companies couldn't give one flying flip about you, or me, or whoever decides to purchase this console. (Besides, if they really wanted to watch you they are probably doing it right now and you have done something to get yourself noticed. Like murder or money laundering.) And yes, I am well aware of the recent Verizon scandal. I myself am a Verizon customer and I just don't care. Because I have nothing, as with most people, that the government wants to know about. Yes it is a shame, but the world keeps spinning and I'm still here so life goes on. *deep breath* But I digress.
Second, if one really has an issue with the Kinect, it has been confirmed that one could just turn it off. Problem solved. And just in case one is really paranoid, then just turn the sensor so it faces a wall. Then it won't be able to "watch" one sit on the couch, take naps, or whatever interesting thing one does in front of their gaming console.

6) Features:
Crunchyroll, Netflix, and Hulu. MUCH cheaper than cable. Nuff said.

10) Price:
Yes, the Xbone is $100 more than the PS4. But let's take a trip back to when the PS3 and 360 first came out. Their roles were reversed, and yet many people flocked to the PS3. As time went on both consoles became cheaper, just as it will be with these consoles. If you want one, yet can't afford it, then either wait until the inevitable price drop or get a summer job. As the Law of Alchemy states, one cannot gain something without first sacrificing something of equal value... *hides again*

I think that about sums it up. Whether or not you buy the Xbone, PS4, or neither is ulitimately up to you. Don't just listen to the ramblings on either side and just assume they are crap. Do your own research, and find out what fits for you. Good luck and happy gaming!

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

You explained why maybe the 360 features make it not as shitty as we thought, but explained none of how it's better than current day consoles.

 

[Madman123456]

My Reasons to buy no xbone:
Calling home. Yeah, no. Not without my permission and even then, you'd have to give me something for it. On the PC, if you give me a game that calls home instead of having DRM software, maybe i'll buy that particular game.

And that is pretty much it, really. I don't care much about hardware, i have a PC that plays games with excellent graphics. If i see a game that demands too much of my hardware and i really really want to play it, then i'll think about new hardware.
I'd be annoyed with the kinect that i wouldn't want. Friends bought a wii and got tired of it fast, leaving it to gather dust. It'd be a huge step forward if the thing worked half as reliably as the push of a button.

And i wont buy sony's box either. Social media integration? I'm not a social person! I'm old, leave me alone!

Frankly, this new console generation hasn't shown me anything that couldn't have been done with the current one better Graphics? Not much. I think the "jump" from the performance of the first few games to the games of now might be bigger and i didn't have to pay for that. Look at "Oblivion" on the 360 and then at "Skyrim" on the same console.


I might be buying a wii u eventually. If they make some games that interest me. The other two companies would have to give me money before i touch their machines. Nintendo might be onto something there by making an actual game console to play videogames on it.

I don't want a multimedia center machine thing that takes over my living room. It'd be better if i take media center OS and slap it onto a PC and use that. More comfortable in use (not in the installation, i freely admit that) since i don't have to run a cable to the thing for internet or move it around so it can reach Wlan better. I'd have a remote and would switch through big lists of any media i'd put on there and play it from the harddrive. Which can be the biggest one on the market whenever i see fit to buy it.

After the disaster that was the first generation of xbox360, i do not trust the people at microsoft to build a machine good enough to do anything. I'd rather pour a 1000 bucks into a media system before i buy a pile of scrap electronics from that company.

But i don't even have to. Firstly, all the parts to build a PC that would play all the media in all the formats and resolutions are already here. You don't need a top of the line machine for that.

Secondly, i don't even have to make such a machine since i watch all my stuff on the computer i'm sitting at now. My own multimedia center, configured to my likings better then microsoft could ever do even if their hardware didn't suck.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Any opinion can be right when proven. I gave enough evidences and reasons for mine to be considered as correct (or acceptable at least).

It isn't up to you to decide if others believe your opinion is "correct".
That's their decision.

 

[Seventh Actuality]

Sounds more like you saying the Xbone being shit doesn't bother you than it actually not being shit.

 

[Gatx]

4) The Evil Spying Kinect:
Now this is the topic that REALLY burns me. First of all, since when did Microsoft, the Government, or ANY company for that matter take an intrest in what some random Joe Schmoe does with his free time? These companies couldn't give one flying flip about you, or me, or whoever decides to purchase this console. (Besides, if they really wanted to watch you they are probably doing it right now and you have done something to get yourself noticed. Like murder or money laundering.) And yes, I am well aware of the recent Verizon scandal. I myself am a Verizon customer and I just don't care. Because I have nothing, as with most people, that the government wants to know about. Yes it is a shame, but the world keeps spinning and I'm still here so life goes on. *deep breath* But I digress.
Second, if one really has an issue with the Kinect, it has been confirmed that one could just turn it off. Problem solved. And just in case one is really paranoid, then just turn the sensor so it faces a wall. Then it won't be able to "watch" one sit on the couch, take naps, or whatever interesting thing one does in front of their gaming console.

Actually, a lot. I don't know about the government, but big companies would kill for that kind of information. Why do you think focus groups are a thing? If they actually were able to know exactly what your daily habits were - what kind you TV shows you watch, where you shop, buy food, etc. they'd have way more accurate data to go by than focus groups.

Obviously the extent to which your Kinect can spy on you is heavily dependent on what room you have your Xbone in, and Microsoft probably isn't spying on you anyway, but it's the possibility that scares people. If there's a suspicious hole in your bathroom wall it doesn't matter if you're pretty sure there's no one there, but you're gonna worry that there is.

 

[Gatx]

Hey, update on the whole "Family thing." Evidently Microsoft doesn't care whether or not it's actual family members as long as they're all part of a "family group," so people have already been forming "families" online on forums and stuff, and Microsoft is evidently okay with that.

The catch is that only two people at any time can be playing one game - the person who originally bought it can play, and one other person can play a "shared" copy - so people who have large families or live in a frat house or whatever who wanted to buy multiple Xbones and think the whole house can play with just one copy of the game are a little out of luck, but otherwise it's still some good news....?

 

[Banzaiman]

Just as advance warning I dislike the Xbone for similar reasons that have been stated by the mass collective, so my responses are informed by that.

1. Used games:
The blockade of selling used games is entirely up to the publisher, so are the fees. What Microsoft has done here is an official way of what already happened before. Remember the Online Passes? That's just like that. Nobody has has to use them. They can. Now, if EA would decide to be a dick and use it - what would happen? They'd do it on every platform. They won't be interested in holding up Sony's image of the messiah console, they want their money. So afaik, it doesn't matter. The possibilities are there on both platforms.

There's not much that can be said, I think, on this particular topic. You're right, in both cases the publishers have the power to screw used games over as best they can, and if they want to they most certainly will regardless of whether the console manufacturer likes it or not. Whag I personally dislike about the Xbone is that its allowance for publishers of the specific option is a bit of unspoken support for the potential of these practices with less effort on the behalf of the publisher, whereas for other consoles the publishers had to exert more effort in the form of online passcodes to get their way.

Also, if EA goes back on its statement and includes online passes for the PS4, they'll receive even more flak. And I think that's a good thing.

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

UPDATE: Mixed this up a little bit, but thankfully [user]9thRequiem[/user] clarified it:

This is two separate things.
One is that up to 10 friends can be in your "Family", and can play your games whenever they like, though each game can only be played by one friend at a time. This is "Sharing" games. I have no idea why this feature isn't widely loved - Share games, with close friends, without needing a disc. If Microsoft went down the Sony route and made a snarky video, maybe things would be clearer.
Separately, there's "Giving" games, which can be done to anyone who's been on your friends list for at least 30 days and can only be done once. After giving someone a game, you no longer have it. This is a much less useful feature, but still beats Steam's game giving.

Before now, I actually didn't know about this, and since I'm very ignorant about this particular part of the console I'm not in a good position to discuss it at length. Still, from what it sounds like it seems fair, though I have a feeling that there'll be another facet of this I dislike. The ten friends limit also sounds fair aince I seriously doubt anyone would have more than ten people they intend to share games with.

3. 24h offline time:
This is a point I can't say much about. I can think of many reasons why they'd do such a thing, but there's nothing I really want to defend here. For me it's no problem at all, I like my games and consoles (and PC) for the online multiplayer, but I see why it would bother people. On the other hand, I'm sure this is nothing they couldn't change. It happened before, so you can hope. If you know you'll be offline for longer than a day, then definitely don't buy the XBone yet though.

Agreed. Moving on.

4. Evil spying Kinect:
This wrong, just wrong. It has been confirmed that the Kinect can be turned off completely long ago, and you won't be spied. The Kinect itself is also a fairly useful tool, I own a Kinect 1 and there are some fun games for it out there, and it adds functionality by voice commands etc. I know people don't like being forced to get a product, but it's entirely possible that there will be an "Arcade" edition like with the 360, which is cheaper and delivered without Kinect. "Why did Microsoft do this in the first place?" you could ask now. To prevent segmentation. This way everyone has the same setup and games can be designed in that way. Apart from that I believe that if people don't try something new over time, things can't evolve.

In regards to spying, I've not a clue one way or another. However, I do strongly dislike the fact we need to buy the kinect along with the console because it sort of speaks to this idea that the consumer isn't given much choice. If the extra $100 are for the kinect then fair enough on the price point, but I still don't see why it should be required anyway. If it's for a universal compatibility thing, thrn there has to be another way to integrate that rather than shovel an unwanted add-on to the main console. As for trying new things, the kinect has been tried for a long time now - and a lot of people don't like it. So why, then, make it required?

5. Hardware:
The hardware isn't too different, really. You have about the same specs in both consoles, if I trust some of the other posts I read the XBone is slightly worse, but that's nothing you could notice. Apart from that, Microsoft has the whole cloud computing thing going, and while you might start laughing at me now, this is the future and even Sony knows it.

Don't know a thing about hardware. As for cloud software, I'm not sure the entire gaming audience is ready for it yet. Maybe in a few decades when the cloud is more accessible (as in, broadband is stronger and more widespread) it might be the next revolutionary light bulb, but until then just meh,

6. Features:
The XBone is an entertainment device, and it's being marketed as such. Personally, I'd be happy if my device could do more, not mad as many others. I can use Skype, watch TV, play games, record, upload and stream... I'm happy about features. It works just like a small PC (I know, PC master race bla bla), and I think that this is good that way. I would like to see a unified experience over all devices one day.

As much as I don't want to bring others into this, but Mr. Sterling's first Jimquisition on the Xbone encapsulated the problems with its extra features. All the other things it does can already be done on other devices and particularly with its tv features. A lot of tvs do that anyway. Granted the Xbone is cheaper than some tvs, but you'll be buying both the console and the screen.

7. Controller:
For some reason I also found some people complaining about the controller. I can't really understand that, for me the XBox controller has always been the best one on the market right now. Wasn't able to hold a PS4 controller so far, but the PS3 ones were none I could really play with.

Personally I always found the Xbox controllers too big for my hands, but this is a highly subjective thing and not really worth berating a console over.

8. Design:
The simple design (even though it really shouldn't matter) is used so it can fit anywhere in your living room. It's elegant and I like it. Your choice. Although both consoles don't look too different.

Agreed. Moving on.

9. Games/Exclusives:
This is anyone's game. If you like the PS4's exclusives, go buy that. If you like the XBone's games (of which there are more announced at the moment), go buy that.

My take on exclusives - personally that is, I can't speak for anyone else - is that they're no deal sealer or breaker. They may be good games, sure, but there are always plenty of other good ones and no one needs to play every game that cacthes their attention. Besides, looking and sounding good these days is no guarantee of quality it seems.

10. Price:
I know, I know, money doesn't grow on trees. However, the console price is essentially the same for both. What makes up the other 100 dollars are the extra things in the package, like the Kinect, that you'd have to purchase separately for the PS4. And Gold doesn't count as an argument either, Microsoft and Sony both do the paying for multiplayer now. And so far, Microsoft's servers seem more powerful (waiting for statement on Sony's side), and they've been that way in the past as well.

Both the Kinect and other features I've talked about previously, I don't know about gold so I can't speak on that matter. Microsoft has every right to price it at what they think it's worth, fair enough, but it's also fair for people like me to look at it and say it's not worth it and shell out for something cheaper.


Just my reactions, I don't know much more than what I've just said so any elaboraion would likely teach me something new.

 

[Manji187]

Wow OP, the effort you put into arguing in favor of the Xbox One...so much zeal. I would be surprised if you aren't getting paid for this. So, MS damage control employee? Or externally employed?

 

[8bitmaster]

I completely agree that the Xbox One overall mega hate is not right. I have 2 big issues with it though.

The game DRM forcing you to register to an account thing. They're trying to force people into a transition into PC style digital games one step at a time, and I think this is a much bigger step than gamers want to make at this point. Last gen made a nice effort toward the end with day 1 digital and sales every so often, but I think they need to make smaller steps than what's happening with the 360 to the One. Yes I know you can share games with people on your "family" list and you and 1 other person can play a game at a time, and you can "give" someone a game ONCE, and there are the "registered" retail with used games, and it's great and all but look at the big picture. As far as we know, these "registered" used game retailers will be gamestop (and region equivalent) and that's it. How many places this gen can you go to buy used games? Not to mention rentals. Decisions like this (unless microsoft has thought of a way they aren't telling us) could cause issues to redbox, family video, gamefly, and more. Wasn't that one of the biggest arguments of console vs pc was the ease of entry? Having to jump through more hoops to play games as if it was through a pc could cause frustration and confusion with people. I believe there is still a gen or two of consoles (if we even get that far) before we can have fully digital consoles, or everyone just goes to pc gaming. There are 2 reasons that Valve can get away with fully digital and a DRM locked system. Name recognition and trust (valve has been doing this going on 10 years now), and the deals. If people couldn't get a large majority of their libraries for insane discounts, I don't think pc gaming would be as successful as it is.

The other thing is this business with keeping indies in a closed system. The news being that microsoft requiring indies to have publishers to be on the system is a little absurd when it's competition is saying the opposite. Between PC, Wii U, and PS4, indies have places to go to self publish. They aren't going to go through a publisher to get on a closed system with less benefits. There are two past events explaining why this is a problem.
First is Ronimo and Awesomenauts. Awesomenauts was originally released on Xbox 360 and PS3 with great success. They needed a publisher to do this. Why did they then release on PC and not patch on consoles in a year? Because of costs and their publisher. Ronimo brought this up a year ago on their forum (http://www.awesomenauts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6781) saying console patching was extremely expensive and their publisher couldn't afford it, and in the opposing end, the Steam version was self published and cheap to patch and fix. Granted, we don't know if for next gen if companies will fix the patching cost issue, but still if a dev is stuck with a small publisher that can't afford it, they're still shit out of luck.
The other story was with Fez, and a similar situation. On launch, there was a game breaking bug. They went ahead and patched it, but it deleted game saves of people close to the end of the game. They ended up removing the patch. Later, they brought the patch back online claiming they refused to fix it for a few reasons. They claimed that it didn't affect very many people, and it only affected those who were at the end of the game already. Their reasoning? Apparently they had to get an update certified with microsoft and that was going to take huge amounts of money and time they weren't willing to invest. The game is now on PC and I believe this issue is fixed (don't quote me on that, I haven't looked into it yet), but this is a problem that everyone except for microsoft is fixing next gen.

Let me know if I got any of this wrong btw.

Also, I'm not saying the Xbox One is truly bad or any other next gen console is good, I'm just saying these two are such extreme deal breakers for me.

 

[tangoprime]

1. Used games:
The blockade of selling used games is entirely up to the publisher, so are the fees. What Microsoft has done here is an official way of what already happened before. Remember the Online Passes? That's just like that. Nobody has has to use them. They can. Now, if EA would decide to be a dick and use it - what would happen? They'd do it on every platform. They won't be interested in holding up Sony's image of the messiah console, they want their money. So afaik, it doesn't matter. The possibilities are there on both platforms.

It... really isn't. The entire system is made so you can't trade physical copies of games without giving them to specific 'partnered retailers' who are going to be Gamestop, Game, EB Games, etc, etc. This is not an optional thing. It's the only reason the 24 hour phone home thing exists. Yeah, nobody has to use online passes because Microsoft have built a wonderful, closed garden where publishers can screw over consumers without having to lift a finger.

2. Game sharing:
After Sony's admittedly hilarious video about sharing games (which was also perceived as childish by some, but I think these little slaps are fun in a way) people have been saying that you won't be able to share games on the XBone. Well, yes and no. You can still share games, you can give your game to up to 10 of your friends without even having to hand them your disc, they'll just have it on their account and can easily download and play it right away. The only thing here is, you need to have them on your friends list for at least 30 days and you can only give them them every game once. But honestly, I don't think that's too limiting. I wouldn't hand out my games to people that I just met either. And if you know them for a while and they just made a new account, then 30 days isn't bad either. Apart from that, I've never seen anyone rent a game twice. If you like it after playing it, you usually just buy it.

So what you're saying is, these needless limitations aren't especially limiting because 'they're not too limiting'? Compared to the PS4 and the WiiU, it's still absolutely absurd. It means you can't sell your games unless you trade them into a big retailer, and the whole giving friends your games without handing them over is brought about by this limitation and it's still incredibly imperfect.

3. 24h offline time:
This is a point I can't say much about. I can think of many reasons why they'd do such a thing, but there's nothing I really want to defend here. For me it's no problem at all, I like my games and consoles (and PC) for the online multiplayer, but I see why it would bother people. On the other hand, I'm sure this is nothing they couldn't change. It happened before, so you can hope. If you know you'll be offline for longer than a day, then definitely don't buy the XBone yet though.

You may have a perfectly stable and fine internet connection, but remember Diablo 3 and Sim City? The issue is not the consumer's internet, it's the servers belonging to Microsoft and other publishers. What if there was a Sony-style mass hack? A whole month (or more!) without being able to play your games because of noxious, unnecessary, corporate serving architecture.

4. Evil spying Kinect:
This wrong, just wrong. It has been confirmed that the Kinect can be turned off completely long ago, and you won't be spied. The Kinect itself is also a fairly useful tool, I own a Kinect 1 and there are some fun games for it out there, and it adds functionality by voice commands etc. I know people don't like being forced to get a product, but it's entirely possible that there will be an "Arcade" edition like with the 360, which is cheaper and delivered without Kinect. "Why did Microsoft do this in the first place?" you could ask now. To prevent segmentation. This way everyone has the same setup and games can be designed in that way. Apart from that I believe that if people don't try something new over time, things can't evolve.

Can't be completely turned off. Needs to be plugged in and will still react to certain voice commands. Assuming there will be an arcade edition is, well, an assumption.

5. Hardware:
The hardware isn't too different, really. You have about the same specs in both consoles, if I trust some of the other posts I read the XBone is slightly worse, but that's nothing you could notice. Apart from that, Microsoft has the whole cloud computing thing going, and while you might start laughing at me now, this is the future and even Sony knows it.

PS4 is estimated to be 50 percent more powerful than the Xbox One. [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-spec-analysis-xbox-one] Consumers won't notice or care, but developers surely will. And this isn't like the PS3 where it was more powerful but came bundled with a whole bunch of programming headaches - both systems have the same architecture, meaning that the only way a multiplat game could be worse on the PS4 is if it is deliberately gimped.

As for cloud computing, ha. Hahahahahaha. Ha. No. Microsoft have yet to show anything intensive running on cloud computing, and so far it appears to be an excuse to bundle always-online into games. And if cloud does blossom into a big thing, Sony have Gaikai. So they'll be able to use cloud and have that 50 percent extra power.

7. Controller:
For some reason I also found some people complaining about the controller. I can't really understand that, for me the XBox controller has always been the best one on the market right now. Wasn't able to hold a PS4 controller so far, but the PS3 ones were none I could really play with.

Controller looks great. Can't wait to use it with my PC. All the reports coming from E3 say the PS4 controller feels considerably better than the PS3 one too. Not hard, but nice to see progress.

8. Design:
The simple design (even though it really shouldn't matter) is used so it can fit anywhere in your living room. It's elegant and I like it. Your choice. Although both consoles don't look too different.

PS4 looks like a PS2. Xbox One looks like a laserdisc player.

9. Games/Exclusives:
This is anyone's game. If you like the PS4's exclusives, go buy that. If you like the XBone's games (of which there are more announced at the moment), go buy that.

I fail to see how this is a point in MS's favour. They will have Xbox exclusives? Yay?

10. Price:
I know, I know, money doesn't grow on trees. However, the console price is essentially the same for both. What makes up the other 100 dollars are the extra things in the package, like the Kinect, that you'd have to purchase separately for the PS4. And Gold doesn't count as an argument either, Microsoft and Sony both do the paying for multiplayer now. And so far, Microsoft's servers seem more powerful (waiting for statement on Sony's side), and they've been that way in the past as well.

The console price is not 'essentially the same'. Not even remotely. You can't say 'Oh it comes with the Kinect so that's why it costs more! Really it costs $399.' What an utterly baffling argument. Is there currently even a hint of the Xbox One coming without the Kinect at any point? Nope, so it costs 100 dollars more to the consumer. You don't just subtract money from a price because something in the box adds to that overall price. You're just reaching at this point.

As for PSPlus vs Xbox Live, PSPlus costs less than gold, has better features than gold. Microsoft have so kindly graced Live subscribers with Halo 3 and AssCreed 2 now, a game that's six years old and a game that's four years old. How kind of them. PS4 also allows watching of any apps like Netflix and Flixster without a PSPlus subscription, unlike the Xbox One.

Summed up very, very well- thanks. I lol'ed a bit at the OP's price argument. +20% is not "essentially the same" for something that's a couple of hundred dollars. For me, I was seeing the Xbox One, knowing I didn't want it, and waiting for the BOHICA announcement from Sony on their price, and low and behold, it's freaking cheaper, and the hardware is more powerful, and it, y'know, well see above. Sony has one this one. Gravitating more toward PC gaming during this generation, the PS4 might bring me back to the console a bit.

Also- am I the only one who occasionally takes my console when I'm on vacation (depending on where I'm going)? The design of the Xbox One doesn't seem very friendly to that sort of thing, then again nor was the 360, or the PS3 until the last version of it came out. Also, the 24-hour-check-in, Microsoft already made quite clear where they stand on a user who may be wanting to use their console's single player content whilst out of internet coverage, when they announced that they have a console for that, the 360.

 

[COMaestro]

Hey, update on the whole "Family thing." Evidently Microsoft doesn't care whether or not it's actual family members as long as they're all part of a "family group," so people have already been forming "families" online on forums and stuff, and Microsoft is evidently okay with that.

The catch is that only two people at any time can be playing one game - the person who originally bought it can play, and one other person can play a "shared" copy - so people who have large families or live in a frat house or whatever who wanted to buy multiple Xbones and think the whole house can play with just one copy of the game are a little out of luck, but otherwise it's still some good news....?

I wasn't planning on buying an Xbone anyway, but this was one question I had in regards to the sharing. I knew there was no way in hell 10 people could all play a game at the same time from only one purchase, and I doubted that more than one person could play the game at a time. Can you post a source for this information? If only one person could play at a time, how is the license handled? I'm assuming the owner could kick off someone else at any time to play the game they purchased, but then, what if they couldn't?? Or if the two person limit described above is true, if one friend is constantly playing a game and never disconnects, is it possible to kick them out remotely to give someone else a shot at the game? Can different friends all play different games from the shared library at the same time, or can only one game be accessed at a time? I'm hoping the source you are referring to answers some of these, because I am curious.

I've always intended to go for a PS4 next generation, simply because of the past track record I have had with Sony's platforms. I have found them to have a wider range of exclusive titles, a (for me) better feeling controller, and a machine that statisically has fewer failures. I rarely play multiplayer titles, but I have already been using the PS+ program and find it very rewarding and I have been able to download and play numerous titles (Spec Ops, Darksiders, Deus Ex: HR, Uncharted: Golden Abyss, Gravity Rush) that I otherwise would not have due to finances, with many more titles to come and some extra savings on the PS Store. Microsoft has given me no reason to change my plans, and at least a few reasons to stick with them.

OP - Good on you trying to at least dispel some of the rumors that are making the Xbone seem worse than it really is, but I still find the system to be a step or ten in the wrong direction, as to me it seems to focus more on what is good for the corporations rather than the consumers. It also seems to be attempting to force things on the consumer that many have already stated they do not want.