Why Twilight is nonsensical.

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Sorry double post.

 

[Jonluw]

I was more talking about the comment of having vemon in his system instead of blood and full control over his muscles. As the heart being a muscle he could force it pump a bit of venom in there.

Well, I did adress that issue. It even spawned this picture:

However, I admit, if he indeed has one hundred percent control of his muscles he might be able to direct blood to his penis. It is my opinion that this would require extreme concentration though.

http://www.alexsdbzrpg.com/images/Vegeta%20SSJ.jpg
"I must...concentrate...OR I WILL NEVER GET A BONER!"

Edit: In this scenario blood is of course interchangeable with venom.

 

[Jonluw]

A friend of mine suggested he would inflate his penis in order to get an erection.

So now I'm stuck with this weird mental image of Edward with a balloon animal in place of his genitalia.

 

[Shintsu2]

What, poor logic that makes no sense in a teen drama movie made for girls? HAH, NEVAR! Seriously, you expect any less from a movie series as stupid as Twilight? This is what I have to say about this damn movie series and it's idiotic female fans:

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I was more talking about the comment of having vemon in his system instead of blood and full control over his muscles. As the heart being a muscle he could force it pump a bit of venom in there.

Well, I did adress that issue. It even spawned this picture:

However, I admit, if he indeed has one hundred percent control of his muscles he might be able to direct blood to his penis. It is my opinion that this would require extreme concentration though.

http://www.alexsdbzrpg.com/images/Vegeta%20SSJ.jpg
"I must...concentrate...OR I WILL NEVER GET A BONER!"

Edit: In this scenario blood is of course interchangeable with venom.

Yes I know I seen it.

 

[RadiusXd]

vampires are just a multipurpose monster these days, noone even seems to care that they should DIE in sunlight, or any of the other stuff.

Why don't i just write a book about mummys that fly?

 

[Phantomess]

Rigor mortis wears off after a few hours of it setting in.

So it can't be that.

But surely True Blood fails from the same crime? I don't remember in Twilight there being a mention of them lacking blood. Obviously in True Blood there is V.

[Chris Crocker Impression]LEAVE TWILIGHT ALONE![/IMPRESSION]

Seriously, Darren Shan's work is poop too. Most teenage fiction is.

Half this I agree with, but I actually enjoyed the vampire-side of Charlaine Harris' books. At least they were REAL vampires (mostly and NOT relating to the whole getting it up thing). I had a bit of a problem with her shapeshifters, but mostly the storylines had more substance than Twilight. At least Sookie is a LITTLE interesting.

And rigor mortis does wear off. I was waiting for someone to mention that.

But then again, vampires have often been equated with sex, so it can be assumed that any blood ingested can be temporarily redirected for... personal use and pleasure.

Spoiler

However, the whole idea of creating a living, breathing, half-vamp child is preposterous.

 

[tologna]

also, i'm pretty sure that you need red-blood cells to preform miosis. so, no blood, no sperm.

 

[Wintermoot]

Deus Ex Machina

 

[Ask]

Half this I agree with, but I actually enjoyed the vampire-side of Charlaine Harris' books. At least they were REAL vampires
[/spoiler]

I've only read one vampire novel. THE vampire novel, written my Bram Stoker and if one actually paid any attention to that book, people would know that the obsessive part of the subculture itself is derived from attention seekers who don't know how to look at a grave message when they see it. Where does all this tie in with Twilight? I'm getting to that.

The word "Dracula" meant "arch-devil" (or something of that nature). The word "vampire" meant "sub-devil" (or something of that nature). "Dracula" was a metaphor for the countries leadership, (In Stoker's era) and how it professed benevolence when its intent was malevolent. The character "Lucy" (spoilers if you haven't read the book. Don't read on if you don't want spoilers) was a metaphor for the country herself, how she was radiant and beautiful only to have her life's blood sucked out of her by their leadership. She had (I think 3) blood transfusions from the main cast to keep her alive and this stood for the normal working man fighting to keep his country afloat while the leadership sunk it further and further until finally they destroyed it. (In this case Lucy died and came back as a vampire known as "Bloofer Lady")This meant, that the country had been sundered so irreparably, that when it rose again, it would be a facsimile of its former self, a husk.

Stoker invented vampires based on old superstitions due to lack of scientific knowledge. He did his research and came up with a few things. Steaks through the heart: Because a death like state was often mistaken for actual death, and graves were very shallow, sometimes these 'dead' would sit up out of their graves and thus be considered 'demons' and later actually killed. SO, to keep a body in its grave, a steak would be driven through the heart to ensure that the body would not sit up. Garlic: Garlic speeds the rate of decay and was also considered holy, so to line the graves with Garlic was spiritual as well as contributing to decay. Ashes in sunlight: Simple, sun permits rotting, and something that's been dead for a while alive on unholy forces, its a pretty obvious use.

So, he invented vampires to make social and political commentary due to the fact that in his era you could be killed and or persecuted for spiting your leader. In truth, the book is so much more frightening when you consider the actual desperation that the folk of his period must've lived in and then read it while seeing the parallels to society in his work. His choosing of "Vlad the Impaler" also symbolic on this point. So, Stoker had guts, true ingenuity and people who really knew how to pay attention understood what he was saying and he was able to reach his target audience.

Now however, like "Radiusxd" said, they've descended to "Multipurpose monster" and have become deluded by a desperate and obsessive subculture with no respect of the man who actually brought them into creation out of desperation for a message of reality twined in dark fantasy. Where is S.Meyer in all this? Corner of Crazytown off of Nutjob lane, little hint, its a dead end. (no pun intended on vampires) S.Meyer suffers from an obvious lack of everything. No actual writing talent, no critical thinking skills and certainly the worst fanfiction writer I've ever spotted. Her books revolve around what she wishes her life was. And sadly, its more boring in her fantasy than in her real life, I don't know which is more depressing.

Her writing doesn't profess a terror of a nation, nor convey a message that's cohesive (and effectively she's setting woman's rights back 50 years with this nonsense) for its readers. Now, I'm not saying every book needs subtext, but in this case wouldn't a volitional subtext do some good on some level? The subtext I get is: Marry young, your identity is the person you date, be slavish to your lover, stalking is Aawwrriighht, verbal abuse A OK, pedophilia isn't a crime, and waking up with a strange man in your bedroom who watches you sleep is romantic, not sociopathy. On her writing, one dimensional characters that lack the ability to grow through the story living in a one dimensional world. All in all, hack. Her demographic applies to the sexually repressed and desperate (Male or female)who like to feel sorry for themselves over minutia.

With all that said, if you read it, thanks.

 

[gibboss28]

Rigor mortis? XP

.....This would mean that he never goes soft.

By god..... Assemble the Extraordinary League of Manly Men.... I think we've solved the reason as to why women love Twilight.

Undead sparkly dicks which never go soft?

Sorry, I'm busy writing my book about Divine glow in the dark vaginas which never get loose.

I've been laughing at this for about 5 minutes now, cheers I needed a laugh today.

 

[Phantomess]

-snip-

I agree, but vampirism also pre-dates Stoker (I'm pretty certain of this, but can't remember if I read about it under a different name). He simply popularised it. Excellently researched post, though. Personally, I can't stand Twilight. I have better things that I wrote in grade school than to let my brain turn to mush after trawling through that garbage [Twilight].

In the same respect, though, what are your thoughts on Anne Rice's vampires? They seemed to operate outside of human intervention.

Spoiler

Save maybe when Lestat decided he'd be a rockstar.

In real-world application, I do remember researching vampires in America. Real, living people who live off blood. Perhaps - and I can't believe I'm saying this - this is what Meyer was trying to aim for? Then again, maybe we're not so lucky and she just wanted to be contrary-wise.

 

[Flying Dagger]

So you would agree that... wow, the apparant vast majority of users on the Escapist... are also jackasses [what IS the plural?] for hating on Twilight too? 'Tis the same thing you're essentially suggesting there for people having an opinion.

Although I'm sad you're the only one to perk up and make the point. I thought everyone who hadn't nested in the world of adult fiction loved Darren Shan.

There's a difference between calling something that's a poor example of it's genre crap, and calling something that's really at the peak of it's genre crap. I happen to be reading through the Demonata books, and have read darren shan several times.
The darren shan vampires are actually pretty badass compared to twilight vampires.
the books are extremely readable, and there's no romance to sully it all. It only loses points when in the last (and first, but you think it's just an opening) they claim it to be a true story.
I started reading them when I was a young teen, and like the harry potter stories (And toy story 3) they've grown up with me (was 19 in june). I've not read twilight but I think there's a difference between what are essentially romance and fantasy novels.

No offense, I read a couple of Darren Shan books in a day when staying with my fiancee's family so essentially I stepped back from mature writing to reading that teenage fiction. I think it's a lot harder to do it that way. I'd probably hate RL Stine or Point Horror if I were to go back and read them now.

I just don't see how so many people can hate Twilight and not Darren Shan. They both make vampires look awful rather than Bladesque which is what the people want because some God of Vampire Fiction unbeknownst to me apparently made those vampires canon. They're both teenage fiction so it is pretty PG even when trying to be hardcore, the characters are annoying - oh and the Vampires Assistant was a terrible, terrible movie too. It's all kind of hypocritical for people to be so outspoken about one series and not the series if their argument is that Twilight ruins vampires.

Yeah I heard the movie was awful, but can you blame Shan for that? It was a shame because I was totally going to go and see it with a girl who was really into Darren Shan before she dumped me then never got round to it.

I now think the Twilight hate is utterly mundane - especially on these forums when the peak of wit appears to be 'Derp, vampires don't sparkle! I hate Twilight!' - the OP was an interesting point, but yet it spiralled into another thread of repetitive anal bore. The comments spawned from the hate are just as terrible as Meyer's writing abilities. Or Shan's.

I don't really understand what's so bad about Darren Shan's vampires, they are really similar to all other vampires except they don't kill people when they feed. The reason people get annoyed with twilight vampires is that they sparkle. That's pretty much the only change that gets people riled.
As bob said, the entire idea of "real vampires" is fucking ridiculous. you should "hate" the books for being poorly written, not because they try to do something different.

But then again, I've seen two of the movies, because I'm friends with people that like them, or have been on dates with girls who wanted to see them (It didn't go very well, I wouldn't pay for her to watch New Moon so she ended up dumping me afterwards, despite her being on nearly twice as much money as me, and as soon as we sat down to watch it she told me she hadn't seen the first one and asked me to explain what had happened grr /rant) but they aren't that bad. They aren't great but I've seen worse.

Now I'm not sure where all the hate comes from, but at a guess, I'd say it's more to do with the fact that it's liked by a gender the posters here have had nothing but bad luck in attaining relationships with. (And I know a lot about bad luck in relationships.)

Also the OP's post was retarded. He's applying VAMPIRES to REAL WORLD PHYSICS.
What next, debunking tolkien for "If elves really weighed nothing why can't they fly"?

 

[Keall]

Half this I agree with, but I actually enjoyed the vampire-side of Charlaine Harris' books. At least they were REAL vampires
[/spoiler]

I've only read one vampire novel. THE vampire novel, written my Bram Stoker and if one actually paid any attention to that book, people would know that the obsessive part of the subculture itself is derived from attention seekers who don't know how to look at a grave message when they see it. Where does all this tie in with Twilight? I'm getting to that.

The word "Dracula" meant "arch-devil" (or something of that nature). The word "vampire" meant "sub-devil" (or something of that nature). "Dracula" was a metaphor for the countries leadership, (In Stoker's era) and how it professed benevolence when its intent was malevolent. The character "Lucy" (spoilers if you haven't read the book. Don't read on if you don't want spoilers) was a metaphor for the country herself, how she was radiant and beautiful only to have her life's blood sucked out of her by their leadership. She had (I think 3) blood transfusions from the main cast to keep her alive and this stood for the normal working man fighting to keep his country afloat while the leadership sunk it further and further until finally they destroyed it. (In this case Lucy died and came back as a vampire known as "Bloofer Lady")This meant, that the country had been sundered so irreparably, that when it rose again, it would be a facsimile of its former self, a husk.

Stoker invented vampires based on old superstitions due to lack of scientific knowledge. He did his research and came up with a few things. Steaks through the heart: Because a death like state was often mistaken for actual death, and graves were very shallow, sometimes these 'dead' would sit up out of their graves and thus be considered 'demons' and later actually killed. SO, to keep a body in its grave, a steak would be driven through the heart to ensure that the body would not sit up. Garlic: Garlic speeds the rate of decay and was also considered holy, so to line the graves with Garlic was spiritual as well as contributing to decay. Ashes in sunlight: Simple, sun permits rotting, and something that's been dead for a while alive on unholy forces, its a pretty obvious use.

So, he invented vampires to make social and political commentary due to the fact that in his era you could be killed and or persecuted for spiting your leader. In truth, the book is so much more frightening when you consider the actual desperation that the folk of his period must've lived in and then read it while seeing the parallels to society in his work. His choosing of "Vlad the Impaler" also symbolic on this point. So, Stoker had guts, true ingenuity and people who really knew how to pay attention understood what he was saying and he was able to reach his target audience.

Now however, like "Radiusxd" said, they've descended to "Multipurpose monster" and have become deluded by a desperate and obsessive subculture with no respect of the man who actually brought them into creation out of desperation for a message of reality twined in dark fantasy. Where is S.Meyer in all this? Corner of Crazytown off of Nutjob lane, little hint, its a dead end. (no pun intended on vampires) S.Meyer suffers from an obvious lack of everything. No actual writing talent, no critical thinking skills and certainly the worst fanfiction writer I've ever spotted. Her books revolve around what she wishes her life was. And sadly, its more boring in her fantasy than in her real life, I don't know which is more depressing.

Her writing doesn't profess a terror of a nation, nor convey a message that's cohesive (and effectively she's setting woman's rights back 50 years with this nonsense) for its readers. Now, I'm not saying every book needs subtext, but in this case wouldn't a volitional subtext do some good on some level? The subtext I get is: Marry young, your identity is the person you date, be slavish to your lover, stalking is Aawwrriighht, verbal abuse A OK, pedophilia isn't a crime, and waking up with a strange man in your bedroom who watches you sleep is romantic, not sociopathy. On her writing, one dimensional characters that lack the ability to grow through the story living in a one dimensional world. All in all, hack. Her demographic applies to the sexually repressed and desperate (Male or female)who like to feel sorry for themselves over minutia.

With all that said, if you read it, thanks.

K, so, as an an ex-fanatic (for vampires) allow me to clear a few things up. While your argument was very well-researched and thought out, the earliest known depictions of vampire-like creatures came well before Bram Stoker was born. The term "vampire" itself is even older than Bram Stoker. There was a short story (an amazing one, to tell you the truth) written in 1819 called "The Vampyre", which originally popularized the modern suave, mysterious, bourgeoisie vampire. People were "killing vampires" in the early-to-mid 1700's(meaning those exact words were used). So, no, he did not invent the concept of the vampire, nor did he invent the term.

Initially, vampires were viewed as demons that inhabited the corpses of the dead, and rose from the grave to devour blood, restless spirits that did more or less the same, or the work of witchcraft, although I'm not so well-versed in the witchcraft aspect, so I won't talk about that much.

The sun did not really "kill" the vampire, rather, it drove the demon out of the corpse, and, with no supernatural being animating the corpse, the vampire would seemingly die.

On another, side note, stakes. I don't think shoving a slab of meat through the chest of a corpse would be as effective as a sharpened stick.

Spot on about where the stake and garlic comes from, though.

As for Meyer, she has absolutely no skill when it comes to writing, and she is shamelessly bold, not to mention somewhat offensive, for writing stories about creatures she knew nothing about.

And, to just add for future reference. They are drinking blood. Whether it be animal blood, human blood, or blood from a freaking martian, it is not being injected into their veins. They are drinking it. The blood just sits in their stomachs, making the argument that by drinking blood they can get blood to flow into their penis and stay there completely useless.

 

[Xojins]

I have never read or seen Twilight, but I think it can be explained simply: Edward is not a real vampire. Honestly from what I heard, if you removed the entire werewolf aspect of it, there's nothing that establishes him as a vampire, just an emo kid who sparkles in the sunlight.

 

[Soxafloppin]

This happens in lots of fiction to be honest, Vampires having kids.

 

[Chipperz]

Because, you know, the older ones burn up in the sun, whereas the twilight ones sparkle. She changed one thing, why can't she change another?

According to people who have actually read the books, Twilight vampires DO burn up in direct sunlight, but they sparkle in half light which is more or less meant to be a warning for them to get back inside.* I'd say the only way this is a problem is if you come from New England and there is now a massive misconception that the Sun NEVER shines there.

Trust me, it's a misconception. I went there to check it out and got sunburn, which is why I won't move there

EDIT - Also, it costs a point of Vitae for a vampire to simulate having blood, either by bleeding from wounds, blushing or getting an erection. Vampire : The Requiem says so.

*And I'm going to be taking my information about Twilight from the people who have actually read it, rather than the people who have heard that vampires in it sparkle in the sunlight and have taken that as fact. Kay? Kay.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

My friedns and I have thought about this, but really

- Vampires don't need human blood to survive... They can feed on the blood of different species... Which makes no sense as their bodies are not made that way
- There are no downsides to being a vampire in her novels. Vampires are gods...

I think it's just another flaw in a list of similar issues.

Atleast in the TV series supernatural, Dean ran into a bunch of vampires who refused to drink human blood and drank the blood of animals instead, but there vampires were sick due to the unnatural blood in their systems.

We never did find a working solution that allowed for sex...

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

Because, you know, the older ones burn up in the sun, whereas the twilight ones sparkle. She changed one thing, why can't she change another?

According to people who have actually read the books, Twilight vampires DO burn up in direct sunlight, but they sparkle in half light which is more or less meant to be a warning for them to get back inside.* I'd say the only way this is a problem is if you come from New England and there is now a massive misconception that the Sun NEVER shines there.

Trust me, it's a misconception. I went there to check it out and got sunburn, which is why I won't move there

EDIT - Also, it costs a point of Vitae for a vampire to simulate having blood, either by bleeding from wounds, blushing or getting an erection. Vampire : The Requiem says so.

*And I'm going to be taking my information about Twilight from the people who have actually read it, rather than the people who have heard that vampires in it sparkle in the sunlight and have taken that as fact. Kay? Kay.

Point of Vitae? But is this in the twilight books or in other vampire novels? Stephanie Meyer made her vampires like no one else. As mentioned, they have no weaknesses really. Garlic and crosses and stuff do nothing. Only weakness is werewolf really

 

[jjofearth]

Mebbe bella haz a magik poshun and she eated it and it givs her rok-vag.