Will Piracy Ever be Fixed?

[Abedeus]

I'd have to agree with the "make more demos" argument.

I'm not going to buy any game without a demo version, ever since I wasted a lot of money on pre-order of Neverwinter Nights 2.

Same as I'm not going to a movie without seeing it's trailer first or buy a music CD without knowing any songs on it and hearing to at least one of them.

Well...perosnally, the only reason I -cough- pirate games is because I simply can't afford them. I don't really enjoy having mass amounts of paper wraped, badly labeled CDs. But I want something to enjoy in life, and I just can't affored waisting 400nis on one game.

Then why not steal graphic cards, computers, cars?

If you can't enjoy your life without a computer game... Well, I pity you.

If you REALLY MUST get the game, save money for it, work for it and do something to earn it. Everyone is such a bloody leech, wanting everything for free.

You're getting into the nitty-gritty of piracy.

It's not theft by the legal definition.

Granted, it is still wrong, but it isn't theft; it's something else.

If I stole a graphics card, then the manufacturer/vendor no longer has that graphics card. They can't sell the thing I took from them to anyone else. But if I pirate software I wouldn't buy (for example; Spore), then the company loses only my business; they still have their own copy hat they can sell to someone else. And, if I wasn't going to buy it in the first place, they didn't even lose my business.

Frankly, the only 'solution' to piracy is morality; if you would buy something, buy it to support the creator. If you wouldn't, then either don't get it at all, or pirate it, use it twice, then get rid of it.

Sorry, but the deal is here:

1. You pirate a game that costs $50.

2. You get a game, developer doesn't get his $50 (pff, HIS $50... he gets less, maybe except for Valve, because shop is taking some of that for the job they did).

3. You got something for free that was supposed to bring someone $50.

What's the difference between pirating a game, and buying the game from a store, then stealing $50 from the cash? You keep your money, they don't get your business.

That's the same thing when you go into a movie with a camera recorder, film the movie and then watch it for free or put it on eMule/torrents.

 

[paketep]

What really needs fixing is some developer's totally wrong mindset, like Mr. Jacobson's.

Prices would go down without piracy?. Yeah, right. I guess he doesn't have a PS3.

 

[Lunar Shadow]

I'd have to agree with the "make more demos" argument.

I'm not going to buy any game without a demo version, ever since I wasted a lot of money on pre-order of Neverwinter Nights 2.

Same as I'm not going to a movie without seeing it's trailer first or buy a music CD without knowing any songs on it and hearing to at least one of them.

Well...perosnally, the only reason I -cough- pirate games is because I simply can't afford them. I don't really enjoy having mass amounts of paper wraped, badly labeled CDs. But I want something to enjoy in life, and I just can't affored waisting 400nis on one game.

Then why not steal graphic cards, computers, cars?

If you can't enjoy your life without a computer game... Well, I pity you.

If you REALLY MUST get the game, save money for it, work for it and do something to earn it. Everyone is such a bloody leech, wanting everything for free.

You're getting into the nitty-gritty of piracy.

It's not theft by the legal definition.

Granted, it is still wrong, but it isn't theft; it's something else.

If I stole a graphics card, then the manufacturer/vendor no longer has that graphics card. They can't sell the thing I took from them to anyone else. But if I pirate software I wouldn't buy (for example; Spore), then the company loses only my business; they still have their own copy hat they can sell to someone else. And, if I wasn't going to buy it in the first place, they didn't even lose my business.

Frankly, the only 'solution' to piracy is morality; if you would buy something, buy it to support the creator. If you wouldn't, then either don't get it at all, or pirate it, use it twice, then get rid of it.

Sorry, but the deal is here:

1. You pirate a game that costs $50.

2. You get a game, developer doesn't get his $50 (pff, HIS $50... he gets less, maybe except for Valve, because shop is taking some of that for the job they did).

3. You got something for free that was supposed to bring someone $50.

What's the difference between pirating a game, and buying the game from a store, then stealing $50 from the cash? You keep your money, they don't get your business.

That's the same thing when you go into a movie with a camera recorder, film the movie and then watch it for free or put it on eMule/torrents.

Cause then they lose an actual physical copy of the game that they now cannot sell. With a torrent you aren't stealing an actual product perse, as noone lose a product that they can sell. Not saying it's right, just pointing out the differance. It's a copyright thing over theft.

 

[Abedeus]

I'd have to agree with the "make more demos" argument.

I'm not going to buy any game without a demo version, ever since I wasted a lot of money on pre-order of Neverwinter Nights 2.

Same as I'm not going to a movie without seeing it's trailer first or buy a music CD without knowing any songs on it and hearing to at least one of them.

Well...perosnally, the only reason I -cough- pirate games is because I simply can't afford them. I don't really enjoy having mass amounts of paper wraped, badly labeled CDs. But I want something to enjoy in life, and I just can't affored waisting 400nis on one game.

Then why not steal graphic cards, computers, cars?

If you can't enjoy your life without a computer game... Well, I pity you.

If you REALLY MUST get the game, save money for it, work for it and do something to earn it. Everyone is such a bloody leech, wanting everything for free.

You're getting into the nitty-gritty of piracy.

It's not theft by the legal definition.

Granted, it is still wrong, but it isn't theft; it's something else.

If I stole a graphics card, then the manufacturer/vendor no longer has that graphics card. They can't sell the thing I took from them to anyone else. But if I pirate software I wouldn't buy (for example; Spore), then the company loses only my business; they still have their own copy hat they can sell to someone else. And, if I wasn't going to buy it in the first place, they didn't even lose my business.

Frankly, the only 'solution' to piracy is morality; if you would buy something, buy it to support the creator. If you wouldn't, then either don't get it at all, or pirate it, use it twice, then get rid of it.

Sorry, but the deal is here:

1. You pirate a game that costs $50.

2. You get a game, developer doesn't get his $50 (pff, HIS $50... he gets less, maybe except for Valve, because shop is taking some of that for the job they did).

3. You got something for free that was supposed to bring someone $50.

What's the difference between pirating a game, and buying the game from a store, then stealing $50 from the cash? You keep your money, they don't get your business.

That's the same thing when you go into a movie with a camera recorder, film the movie and then watch it for free or put it on eMule/torrents.

Cause then they lose an actual physical copy of the game that they now cannot sell. With a torrent you aren't stealing an actual product perse, as noone lose a product that they can sell. Not saying it's right, just pointing out the differance. It's a copyright thing over theft.

Okay, then what's the difference between piracy and:

1. You go to a shop, open a box, get DvDs.
2. You copy DvDs.
3. You return them to the shop and nobody notices it.

It's win-win, right? NO. You got the game, they got nothing.

It's like sneaking into a movie without paying, then filming it and releasing in the Internet on eMule. That's a piracy too. Or, more exactly, theft of intellectual property.

Theft is theft. It can't be white, unless you absolutely need, NEED the thing to live. And if you do, that's a bad thing, stop.

 

[Aardvark]

If they had decent digital distribution, they'd see piracy drop. If they stopped using crippling DRM, they'd see piracy drop. If they consistently released quality products at decent prices, they'd see piracy drop. If they synchronised their release dates globally, they'd see piracy drop.

There are so many things they could do, ranging from the blatantly obvious to the not-so-much, but they don't. They have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[GoldenShadow]

The only reason people download games and music illegally is this.

Its so easy to get away with it. Instead on tightening the grip on legitimate users with DRM, tighten it on the pirates. Stop trying to prevent copies and legislate new laws to punish people using illegal copies. ISP need to give addresses and names that link with a suspected pirate IP address. An officer is sent out to confiscate your PC and it is checked for pirated material.

If there was a real threat like losing your internet access, losing your PC, fines, and/or jailtime for downloading pirated games, no honest person would do it any longer.

They already know how to track unique IPs that go to the main piracy websites. Its just a matter of giving them authority to act on it.

Remove DRM, treat the criminals like criminals, instead of the legitimate buyer.

Of course this won't stop it, but it would certainly make your average otherwise honest person think twice.

Make the act of downloading a pirated game carry the same risk as if they shoplifted it from walmart.

 

[Grampy_bone]

Piracy does not drive up the price of games. That's a myth of the game companies. If piracy were eliminated prices would go up. When PC games switched from easily-copied floppy disks to impossible-to-copy (at the time) CDs, the price of PC games basically doubled overnight. They had customers over a barrel and they were going to bilk them for all they could.

When someone pointed out above that game prices are about market segmentation, they were dead on the money. If anything piracy lowers prices, because the game companies feel they need to compete with it.

 

[Miral]

I'm also still waiting for the video game industry to fuck right off with their retarded pricing and take a look at some fucking exchange rates. God, that really pisses me off. ?60 DOES NOT EQUAL $60!

Following the exchange rates is just as bad, though. Here a typical new console game is ~NZ$110 (which *is* about US$60, according to the exchange rate). But the exchange rate is not tied to purchasing power -- if I bought US$60 of groceries from a US market and NZ$60 of groceries from an NZ market, I would end up with about the same amount of stuff in the end. As a result, games are relatively more expensive (compared to other things you can buy) here than in the US, thereby making the purchase harder to justify. (And reiterating your other point: making it even more important to have a demo.)

 

[insanelich]

Screw over the customer! Milk them for all you can!

Frankly, I support pirates. They're the critical point keeping the bigname publishers in check. Because as we've all seen, companies with dividends always go for the maximum profit. Which has and will involve screwing over the customer in every way possible and going for the generic crap pleasing as large a crowd as possible. Just look at EA and everything they've acquired.

And I have a copy of Mass Effect I don't dare install on a system without a fresh disk image because of the DRM.

And I've yet to see a pirate who wouldn't buy given two things. That the price was right and it was convenient. But spend $50 on overpriced overhyped utter crap (Fallout 3, Bioshock and Spore to mention a few big titles I wouldn't take for free) and basically the middle finger from the publisher once you realize it's crap?

Viva la revolution!

(And I have a big shelf of games that are legal, and tons of DD games.)

EDIT: And oh, kill the broke college students! Make piracy equivalent to armed robbery! Piracy is killing gaming! VHS is killing movies! Piano roll is killing the artists! (Last three real cases.) ... haven't we heard this bullshit enough times already? The end of piracy would do nothing to lower the prices, as the console market should so abundantly show. Lowering prices would cut piracy, because people wouldn't care to go through the gigantic hassle pirating stuff sometimes is if they could get the same thing quickly and conveniently.

 

[Sewblon]

I believe that exclusively distributing games electronically would help but in the end the industry will have to remove install limits and Securom. As it stands all DRM does is designate the most beneficial course of action to end users and dare them to challenge the system to accomplish it.

A "change in society" will never happen the only way for The industry to survive is budgeting their projects in order to profit in spite of piracy.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I'm another supporter of Steam, last couple of deals I went for , GTA 1,2,3, VC and SA, the lot for £15, and all the X-Com games for £3! Honestly, who's going to pirate when you can get stuff guaranteed working and patched and ready to go for a few quid.

As for DRM, I'm all for a certain level of protection , such as CD Keys, online activation etc, as it discourages the 'casual' pirates, the type who don't know much, but would download em if it was simple, and would buy from car boot sales etc.

When the you're spending almost as much on the DRM as you did on the game, there's a problem, and you're also laying a challenge down to the hackers, therefore getting people actually interested in breaking and downloading your property. Look at Spore...

One thing I think is really bad is stuff like World of Goo getting stolen, come on... I'm not saying its ok at any level, but screwing one guy outta a few bucks is the lower end of it.

 

[Scarecrow38]

Piracy is never going to be fixed because many people just don't see the problem with it. I think Steam is the best anti- piracy idea out there but you can't stop someone from torrenting a game thats 2 or 3 years old and then finding a cracked .exe (come to think of it you can't really stop all of that with most recent releases either).

 

[cleverlymadeup]

i think the guys at valve put it best, pirates are just underserved customers, here's the article [http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/valve-pirates-are-just-underserved-customers/?biz=1&page=1]

if they were served better, like simultaneous worldwide release, you'd see piracy go down but not be eliminated. there would be less ppl who did pirate things. remove drm and such and it would go down even more. you can't stop it but you will at least decrease the amount

using me as an example, i live in canada, i love doctor who and torchwood. the cbc in their infinite wisdom won't show doctor who won't air it until several months after the bbc has and even put it online for free, they don't show torchwood any more that airs on space but same thing. so what do i do? i download doctor who and torchwood. IF i could watch it on my tv even with a week or two delay i'd watch it on the cbc/space but 6 months or more is just too long.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

It's called human ingenuity. People always try to find ways around the rules, it's part of our nature.

This. It's why chimps use sticks to get termites and ants.

 

[Samah]

Make the act of downloading a pirated game carry the same risk as if they shoplifted it from walmart.

Right, except it doesn't carry that risk if they're caught; it carries much much more.

If you steal a music CD from a store (and are caught), what do you think is going to happen? They'll call the cops, you'll get fined and a black mark on your record. If you download an album and are sued by the RIAA, you'll find yourself in a world of hurt and be fined much more (and probably do jail time).

And the Walmart example is a worse offense given that you've physically stolen an object that Walmart can no longer sell!

 

[bkd69]

Once more, with feeling:

First, let's assume that every game is widely and readily available in illicit form, by which I mean, that every game player knows at least one individual who can download a game for them (I'm willing to wager that we Escapist readers are that someone, so we probably don't know anybody that's two degrees out who can't find someone to download for them, or teach them).

Now, let's say that x% of a game's players are playing from illegal copies. That means that (100-x)% of a game's players are suckers/upstanding citizens who paid for legitimate copies (less a few points for renters, borrowers, secondhanders, etc).

Any technical countermeasures are only going to (negatively) effect that (100-x)% who paid for legitimate copies, which means, illegal copies provide a better product at a better price. So no DRM, or other technical countermeasures.

So the first, most important thing, and I'm going to shout here, because it's just that important: DON'T SPEND MORE TO DEVELOP A GAME THAN YOU'RE GOING TO EARN BACK IN REVENUE FROM THAT (100-x)% OF LEGITIMATE SALES!!!!!!! As a developer, that (100-x)% is the ONLY thing that matters, because that represents income from people who bought your game in spite of having free copies readily available. And the Imaginary Pirate Revenue from that x% who are playing from illegal copies? You can't account for that anywhere. Not to the taxman, not the insurance company. And the company that you licensed your DRM from certainly isn't offering to cover it. Now, to be fair, a game like Gish, World of Goo, any of Cliffski's games, they're not necessarily going to have a really long track record to make a really solid sales projection, EA has no such excuse.

 

[Vinculi]

I doubt that piracy will ever be "fixed", even if the industry takes steps to lower game prices, serve all customers equally, give out demo discs on street corners etc, there will still be plenty of pirates who simply will not pay for something that they can get for free.

Also, we're still working on getting rid of the other kind of pirates, you know, the ones with boats and parrots, so if that's anything to go by, forum goers will be discussing the problem of piracy in 200 years...

 

[Socius]

Q: will piracy ever be fixed?
A: nope

 

[insanelich]

Q: Should piracy ever be fixed?
A: No.

Q: Why not?
A: Any method successful would inhibit society far too much.

Q: So what now?
A: Make sure you serve your real customers best, to encourage people to be a customer.