Will The Elder Scrolls Online end the same way as Swtor?

[SajuukKhar]

MMOs are dead, and if Bethesda wanted to exploit them they should have made Oblivion an MMO.. and made it f*cking good.

ugh....
for the 50 millionth bazillionth time... IT ISNT BETHESDA.

It was the decision of Zenimax, Bethesda's parent company.

No, no, no, no, no, no, NO! I am not going to get excited for this no matter how hard you try because that is a fuck-obvious tank! Earlier suspicions confirmed; they're inventing new classes because they need to shove them into the same tired holy trinity of tank, dps, healer but the existing classes don't lend themselves well to that. I'm taking bets right now, the Templar class is going to turn out to be paladin-like DPS with a healing gimmick.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/6819/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-The-Comprehensive-Preview.html

Add this all together, the fact that every class can use every weapon or armor, the many different spells and abilities and their morphs, and even the points you spend on Magicka, Health, and Stamina? well, you get the picture. Matt and team informed us that while there are ?heals, DPS, and tanks?, every class can take on every role with the progression system and the armor and weapons. It?s just a matter of switching out your loadout and you?re good to go.

It sounds pretty Guild Wars 2ish, every class can play every role yet some classes will still be better at it then others.

Kinda like how...... Elder Scrolls classes always played, yeah you could heal as a warrior, but you would suck at it compared to a mage.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

Yes, all subscriptions MMOs are automatic fail. WoW only survives because people started playing before everyone realized P2P was a scam and just continue to do so. WoW got is hooks in before P2P died.

And going free doesn't help a P2P game. It was developed with a subscription model in mind, so even after it goes free its still a pointless grind to get you $15.

 

[Wolfhowl the shadow lurker]

Heres a mad idea, why don't we wait till we have seen someone play this or have done it ourselfs before hateing on it. I really do not understand where all this hate is coming from.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

If Zenimax do this their job and are smart about it they can make their money before this tanks. Although, if it plays anything like a TES game I won't touch it with a barge pole.

 

[thespyisdead]

well... not if they take the GW approach to MMOs... but that's my oppinion... P2P is a thing of the past now...

 

[SajuukKhar]

Decision of? lol... What's that supposed to mean?

Anyways, if it's not Bethesda that's fine. It's still TES and it doesn't change the gyst of my post: An MMO will never work.

As in, it was Zenimax's decision to make the MMO? Not Bethesda's? is that hard for you to understand?

I think Guild Wars 2 kinda invalidates all the things you said about MMORPGs.

 

[Thoric485]

for the 50 millionth bazillionth time... IT ISNT BETHESDA.

It was the decision of Zenimax, Bethesda's parent company.

Zenimax is Bethesda. It's a shell company created by Bethesda's founder to hold the Bethesda studio, the Bethesda publishing arm and the acquisitions (Arkane, id etc.).

 

[Salomega]

I've been saying this since TESO was announced and will continue to say it: "This is a terrible idea!" The Elder Scrolls games have all been catering to the fact that your character is "The One", you are the Nerravarine, you are The Hero of Kvatch, you are The Dragon Born and that is what its all about, being the Stalwart hero of the land.

If you make it an MMO though suddenly what used to be a game where you were the main focus and everyone was amazed at your ability to kill dragons or survive super diseases or find a princely needle in a haystack to give an amulet to, now you are just one of many little derp sticks roaming around the land of Tamriel being mediocre instead of the dragon stomper.

All in all, I won't be buying this game and wish those that are a good luck with it, I'd love to be wrong about this but I just don't think I am. -shrug-

 

[SajuukKhar]

"Hard to understand"? "ugh"? Simmer down, pal, not too sure why you're being so insistent and combative about this but it's not very inviting, I've not spoken to you before so stop questioning my intelligence.

I was referring to the word 'decision', when I asked what you meant. I didn't know why you chose to say "It's Zeminax's decision" rather than "Zenimax is making it", for all I know you're just saying "Bethesda are making it... because Zeminax decided they should" or something... Sounds like some doublespeak Mitt Romney would come up with. I haven't read any articles, I don't know the whole story, but when you use a weird-ass word like "decision" I don't know what you might be talking about.

Anyways, good point re: Guild Wars 2. I haven't played the game, I played WoW back in the day, and preferred it's open world. I don't play any MMOs anymore but the last one I played was TOR and that confirmed to me very clearly that, unless there's a very strong framework in place like there was with Guild Wars 2 (there was one for WoW but they've still managed to fuck the game up for the past four years) that any new AAA MMO was going to be a grey'd out mish mash of crap.

Actually we have spoken before... several times.

I said its Zenimax's decision because
1. It is their decision
2. Zenimax isn't making it, Zenimax Online is
3. Blaming Bethesda for Zenimax getting another company to make a Elder Scrolls MMO is like blaming Bioware because EA made some other company make a Mass Effect MMO.

And as much as I doubt the MMO will be good, i see a tanking in the near future after it is released, the game could be good. It uses a weird hybrid of the single player TES games combat along with some GW2 actiony elements and limited skill bars thrown in there.

That combined with the TES style emphasis on exploration, which many articles have pointed out does exist, could make the MMO just unique enough to not feel the same as everything else.

It wont be GW2 good, but I don't think its gonna be another WoW clone.

 

[Dandark]

I actually like the look of this now, it's looking much better than I thought and I would buy this. However im completely put off by the P2P, I really like the sound of it but im not going to get ripped off by a subscription model just to play it.

If they drop the subscription model then I would easily play this though.

 

[SajuukKhar]

My point is this; a TES MMO doesn't need a holy trinity style mechanic. The game has never lent itself to that sort of gameplay and attempting to smash a holy trinity mechanic in there really only shows that they're not interesting in making an Elder Scrolls game. People play for the high adventure and the immersion, not the spamming trade-chat for three hours looking for someone willing to be a healer.

You are aware that, in a game where every class can play every role, there is no spamming for hours looking for a healer.

Case in point, Guild Wars 2.

I mean really, that IS the entire point of a "every class can play every role" system.

That's not an apt analogy at all. As has been mentioned here, Zenimax is a shell company created by Christopher Weaver, the founder of Bethesda. It isn't like someone purchased Providence Equity then said "and now we're going to have *X developer here* make a TES MMO". This was a decision that was very much made within the inner circle, so to speak, of Bethesda. Even if it was just a call from Christopher Weaver, that's still Bethesda.

One person does not equal the entire company, no matter their position.

I wouldn't blame Activision for the actions of Kotick, or w/e his name is.

So unless you have some proof that Bethesda as a whole was like "lets totally do this" you cant really say they were.

 

[Comocat]

I've been saying this since TESO was announced and will continue to say it: "This is a terrible idea!" The Elder Scrolls games have all been catering to the fact that your character is "The One", you are the Nerravarine, you are The Hero of Kvatch, you are The Dragon Born and that is what its all about, being the Stalwart hero of the land.

If you make it an MMO though suddenly what used to be a game where you were the main focus and everyone was amazed at your ability to kill dragons or survive super diseases or find a princely needle in a haystack to give an amulet to, now you are just one of many little derp sticks roaming around the land of Tamriel being mediocre instead of the dragon stomper.

All in all, I won't be buying this game and wish those that are a good luck with it, I'd love to be wrong about this but I just don't think I am. -shrug-

I think you are right. TES and Fallout both are games built around a heroic character and the choices they make. Subsequently the game world reflects those choices. One of the first choices in Fallout 3 was blowing up (or saving megaton) could you imagine an MMO where a single player could decide to destroy and quest hub? IMO TES and Fallout are mediocre games at best when it comes to mechanics, but they shine in the fact your choices seem to matter. I can't see how an MMO can capture this spirit. Give players freedom and the majority of players will turn npcs into thralls then heard them into a penis formation. Don't allow player freedom and congrats on creating generic fantasy #1000. Best of luck to the designers though, I hope it works out.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I think you are right. TES and Fallout both are games built around a heroic character and the choices they make. Subsequently the game world reflects those choices. One of the first choices in Fallout 3 was blowing up (or saving megaton) could you imagine an MMO where a single player could decide to destroy and quest hub? IMO TES and Fallout are mediocre games at best when it comes to mechanics, but they shine in the fact your choices seem to matter. I can't see how an MMO can capture this spirit. Give players freedom and the majority of players will turn npcs into thralls then heard them into a penis formation. Don't allow player freedom and congrats on creating generic fantasy #1000. Best of luck to the designers though, I hope it works out.

I've read in several previews that the game has a system that's kinda like phasing, but at the same time really isn't.

Like in one mission you can choose to save a fort, or some civilian place, and the one you save actually stays saved, and they remember you, while the other does get destroyed.

but you can group/interact with people who chose the other option.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/6819/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-The-Comprehensive-Preview.html

This is where the first interesting design decision of ESO is seen. The game uses a form of "phasing" for the lack of a better word. As you complete missions, the world changes, and choices you make stay in that zone throughout the rest of your character's life. At one point after Bleakrock when you've made your way to Morrowind, you're asked to choose between defending docks or a keep from the encroaching forces. Whichever one you choose ultimately means the other suffers. And this choice stays that way permanently for that character. You might wonder how you'll be able to group with friends who choose the opposite. I wondered too, and was assured by ZOS that there will be a work-around so that you can always help your friends and group up even if your "statuses" in the world differ from one another.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Yes, however Guild Wars 2 managed this by eliminating the role of healer. Every class is expected to maintain some degree of self-sufficiency through healing.

And, as stated by several interviews, every class in TESO does the same.

Apparently you've been living under a rock since Smith wrote The Wealth of Nations so let me lay this out for you; in traditional businesses employees have no say in how their company is run. Zenimax, and by extension Bethesda, is such a company. The vast majority of people hired in the company have no say on how it's run and the decision to make a TES MMO was likely made by a handful of people.

No I understand that quite well.

For that matter, it's a spectacular strawman on your part. No one at all is claiming that "the entire company" made this decision. When people say "X company did Y" it's shorthand for "W people at X company decided on Y so X did Y." The syllogism is shortened but the overall meaning stays the same.

But again, we don't know that Bethesda approved of it, Zenimax may have, but Zenimax doesn't need Bethesda's approval for shit.

Also, that sort of shorthand bullshit is exactly why there are people that, to this day, still say Bethesda made New Vegas, or Bethesda made dishonored.

And why not? Have you never heard of the term 'tone at the top'?

For the same reason I wouldn't blame all of America for the actions of The President.

I find it shameful that we live in a society that thinks it is acceptable to shift the blame from one person onto an entire group of people like that.

Straaaaaaw

No that is just common logic.

If there is no evidence of something, you cant claim that it exists.

 

[kasperbbs]

All i can say is that i have the same level of interest in this game as i had for swtor and that would be zero. I love Elder scrolls and i have been playing mmos for many years, but this just seems like a terrible idea.

 

[Muunokhoi]

Not to interrupt this fascinating debate but can anyone name a large brand MMO that has managed to survive against the titanic beast that people call WoW. Hell even MMO's with dedicated fanbases like Star Trek and Star Wars were unable to combat this beast who in their right mind believes that Elder Scrolls is going to ever go toe to toe in a genre they have very little experience with. I know this may sound harsh and cynical but really I don't see this ending well for Bethesda or whoever though up this hair brained scheme.

 

[squid5580]

I think the way of subscription fees really only works with WoW now, and its only because they have such a dedicated fanbase that has put so much work into their characters, that to stop paying and lose all that would be difficult. Guild Wars 2 has shown that a quality MMO can survive, and even thrive, without extorting the consumers for $15 a month or whatever subscriptions cost now. I really want TESO to do well, but i highly, highly doubt it will last much longer than SWToR did, and that game had even more hype surrounding it than this game. But we'll see, as OP said, it's still a bit too far out to call out what will happen.

I think there is 1 part of the equation being left out of the Star Wars failure. You don't have to be a gamer to be a fan of Star Wars. So the name can only cater to a specific segment of the overall fanbase. Elder Scrolls on the other hand carries weight within the gaming community. 100% of the fanbase are gamers. It could be what puts ActiBlizz to actually start trying with WOW again (I mean Kung fu pandas really??? You go from a dragon changing the entire world to a land of kung fu pandas and that isn't just laziness?? Or worse we know we got you by the balls and you have to buy it to stay competitive since it includes a level cap increase.) or go down. Sorry went off topic for a moment.

The one thing that Scrolls will need that SW didn't is a trial right off the bat. I was pretty interested in SW when it was first announced but it took them so long to get a trail version out by the time it did come I had lost interest

 

[SajuukKhar]

Not to interrupt this fascinating debate but can anyone name a large brand MMO that has managed to survive against the titanic beast that people call WoW. Hell even MMO's with dedicated fanbases like Star Trek and Star Wars were unable to combat this beast who in their right mind believes that Elder Scrolls is going to ever go toe to toe in a genre they have very little experience with. I know this may sound harsh and cynical but really I don't see this ending well for Bethesda or whoever though up this hair brained scheme.

There is a misconception that you need to do as well as WoW to be considered "doing well" in the MMO world, which is patently false.

ESO isnt trying to be WoW, or beat WoW, it isnt going against WoW, and it doesn't have to do anywhere near as well as WoW to make a profit.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I see this thread is full of some of the usual delusions that crop up whenever an MMO post appears on these forums. I'm not even going to bother correcting them all. People don't want to listen.

As for the sub fee thing...it's a calculated risk. If they're smart, they'll have a FTP model built into the back end so they can make a seamless transition when the time comes. And the time will come. It's not a very welcoming market for PTP games, it's just too saturated.

PS - I will correct one small thing. EVE has 400K subs, not 700K.

Not to interrupt this fascinating debate but can anyone name a large brand MMO that has managed to survive against the titanic beast that people call WoW.

The problem isn't WoW specifically. WoW is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

 

[Comocat]

Not to interrupt this fascinating debate but can anyone name a large brand MMO that has managed to survive against the titanic beast that people call WoW. Hell even MMO's with dedicated fanbases like Star Trek and Star Wars were unable to combat this beast who in their right mind believes that Elder Scrolls is going to ever go toe to toe in a genre they have very little experience with. I know this may sound harsh and cynical but really I don't see this ending well for Bethesda or whoever though up this hair brained scheme.

There is a misconception that you need to do as well as WoW to be considered "doing well" in the MMO world, which is patently false.

ESO isnt trying to be WoW, or beat WoW, it isnt going against WoW, and it doesn't have to do anywhere near as well as WoW to make a profit.

That's a fair point, but I think a lot of that perception will be how TESO handles their hype machine. SWTOR and Warhammer are notable in their failure because their hype train was essentially promising a new gaming experience that would overthrow WoW and revolutionize the genre. On their own they arent terrible games, but when you promise a product that substantially under delivers you open it up to criticism both warranted and unwarranted. SWTOR in no way deserves most of the hate its received as a game, but as a product it certainly does.