"Winning" someone's love

game-lover

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Nowadays, modern love stories are a bit smoother. It's not so much winning as convincing the other person to give a relationship a chance.

That can be from those who only intended on a casual fling realizing they want more.

To someone finding someone attractive but resisting doing anything because they don't match on paper, didn't fit the type they imagined, too young, too old, etc.

And even the sometimes good, sometimes bad thing of getting them to leave the person they're currently with because of some reason or another.
 

lord.jeff

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A fictional romance is as much like real love as a Kung fu movie is like a real fight.
 

Frankster

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To be perfectly honest... Up until my teens (17ish) i honestly thought this was the case, that you had to "win" someones love, it was a stereotype that might have started in media, but was also encouraged by my peer group and the school i was in. Didnt help i had a rather weak willed personlity in that i was too easily influenced by others, but i guess thats normal for plenty of people of that age, being a teen sucks. Would only be later with having more female friends that i changed.

This doesnt stop at school though, how many guys take women on dates and fully expect to get action because they went to a good restaurant or w/e, or have been on x amount of dates?
How many people persist after refusal and are told instead they need to keep trying harder by their friends in order to wow the object of their affections?
Its almost a self perpetuating stereotype at this point, with guys and girls alike believing it and encouraging it since this is seen as romantic in media.

cerealnmuffin said:
I wonder if the prevalence of such a trope is what makes some guys think it will work in real life; hence, the perpetuation of the nice guy tm.
I believe there is a correlation at the very least.
 

Octorok

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Agreed. The idea of "pursuing" someone in this Disney fashion is ridiculous. Modern culture again pushing silly gender roles to the extreme. "Love" isn't Romeo and Juliet style wooing, and it certainly isn't this "input/output" system. Women are more complex than a bloody vending machine - you don't just reach some appropriate level of pursuit and suddenly love happens.

Love is instead a lot more cooperation, and a lot more understanding. Women aren't won over by saturation of stuff done, and guys shouldn't be working night and day to force something that isn't going to work. This shit is dumb, and it'd be better for everybody if it just stopped altogether.

But, wait, it's so romantic that he keeps on trying and gets the girl in the end! Fucking factory farmed relationships. Worst thing to leak out of fiction into people's perception of reality.

See also - every romantic comedy ever.
 

Vegosiux

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My grandfather liked to say "A woman must love her man a bit and understand him a lot. A man must love his woman unconditionally, and not even try to understand her."

It's all about communication in the end. In what you aim to make a long term relationship, love isn't the most important thing, trust is. You don't live happily ever after when you "win someone's love"; hell no. That's when the real work starts.
 

TilMorrow

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Jul 7, 2010
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Aylaine said:
I'm with:
canadamus_prime said:
I like to think of it more as "earning" rather than "winning," but that's just me.
This fellow. Winning someones love, to me, implies that love has a price. Which to me it does not, for it's priceless. ♥


Thus I earn. ♥
Wow. Okay to be honest here, after reading most of the posts in this thread so far I have to say this is the one that made my brain go "What?", take two steps back over the edge of cliff 'I have a general idea' and begin hurtling towards the sharp rocks of 'I think my brain imploded' sticking out the sea of ... Suddenly I think I may have gotten the definition of winning and earning something wrong for my whole life till now and may have just learnt when something is won, it gets a price tag added to it. Right... I'm going to get something to drink now...

OT:
MakerofMysteries said:
Is this just the modern adaptation of someone pre-historic mating ritual where Grog crushes Trog's head and gives Groggina a flower so that they may procreate?
I guess you could say it is a modern adaptation and expansion on that idea what with everything else they chuck in those sorts of stories these days. But then again as you said all these concepts of 'winning love' commonly appears in some medium of entertainment than real-life so don't really expect that there are any Scott Pilgrims or that sort of person out there beating up 'bad guys'/achieving a ridiculous goal to win someone's love these days.

However, since all my romantic emotions and other lovey-dovey sentiments could barely fill the average teaspoon (and even then they'd be dissolved by my corrosive cynicism), I ask you, fellow escapists; what good comes of forcing love? Should it not grow naturally?
Whatever floats the boat of the couple I guess? Though I'm curious as to what your definiton for love growing naturally is.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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MakerofMysteries said:
So a lot of movies, books, hell, even games, especially those dating simulators, empathise "winning" someone's love; in fact it's a rather common view throughout society, with deep roots in various fables and legends. As such, my query; why these mad mating rituals?

Perhaps I should explain. If we are to take the stereotypical example of a boy trying to win the girl of his dreams (probably defeating some evil arch nemesis along the way whilst performing a rocking guitar solo), the story usually goes that she initially shows no interest for him, perhaps even disdain, thus prompting him to impress her through various spectacles of supposed affection. In the end, she'll fall for him due to all his wacky, cloying attempts at romance, cut to kisses and wedding scene, the end.
Well, I think the issue is that these stories have roots in certain fairy tales or other old stories.

Recall that "romantic love" or "marrying for love" is a fairly recent concept. Historically, it was more common for marriage to be the results of land mergers between families. Before that, it involved land gifts from lords or their vassals - say a King to his Knights. A knight would have to prove his worth to his king. If he did so, he'd "win" a wife.

That's where the Knight saving the lady from the dragon, and then getting to marry her comes from. It became rooted in fairy tales - the Knight (or Prince to up the stakes) rescues the Lady (or Princess) from some danger and his reward is marriage.

A few old tales reversed or messed with this trope - Gaiwane and the Loathly Lady, for instance, had the Knight marry the Witch out of duty to his lord. He was then rewarded when the Witch turned out to be hot.

Going back further, think of the animal kingdom in general. Males often have to do mating rituals to impress a female for the purposes of breeding. Why? To prove that they're superior genetic stock. The female deer wants strong children, so she mates with the buck that kills three other bucks in one-on-one combat.

Back to fairy tales, the Knight who slays the Dragon, when a dozen other knights fell to it's teeth and breath, has proven that he is superior genetic stock.

All of this has seeped into the collective consciousness. Today, men get into fights to impress women, or buy fancy cars to show how wealthy they are. These are ways of proving that they are superior genetic stock and thus attract a mate.

Is this a good thing? No. Not it is not. There are better ways to choose today. However, these ideas have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, since before humans even evolved into our current state.

And in any case, I tend to find that method of romantic storytelling lazy. Sure, you need to create romantic tension, but that artificial "Excuse Me Princess!" style conflict just doesn't come off as real.

A better method is having the characters get to know one another. Even if two people have an instant attraction, most of the time - particularly if there's world saving adventuring to do - hook-ups aren't a top priority. Once the characters get to know one another, then they can start to develop feelings.

Anyway... I feel like I've wandered rather far off topic here. Still, I think I covered it in there somewhere.
 

Maxtro

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Every time I've tried to win somebodies love, I completely failed.

If a girl doesn't like you, ask out a thousand more and maybe you'll find somebody who does...
 

Entitled

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Well, of course the idea of this whole male-proactive courtship is outdated, but then again, some girls are outdated themselves, and kind of expect that. And others get offended at it.

It's depending on the culture, subculture, religion, age, and cynicism level of the participants. Just know who you are dealing with.
 

CrimsonBlaze

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As real life has shown us, people who get together and later marry and/or have kids together, because of superficial pretenses often tend to not spend eternity "happily ever after." Such actions are meant to get someone's attention so that they can focus on you and give you a chance to get to know each other in order to see if you two are truly compatible. They are also efforts to prove that you genuinely are interested and care for them, and thus, prompts the other person to know that you are truly seeking companionship instead of just attention or other favors.

Such valiant efforts can be as simple as taking someone to a fancy restaurant, attending a scary event or attraction, or going somewhere where you feel comfortable and confident (one date consisted of going to the beach: tossing a football around, swimming in the ocean, having a bar-be-que, and later a bonfire). So there's no need to go to the extreme to get someone to like you; just be confident and do something that will get her attention.
 

BlazeRaider

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SpiderJerusalem said:
MakerofMysteries said:
I ask you, fellow escapists; what good comes of forcing love? Should it not grow naturally?
No idea what all this talk of "winning" anything is. If the girl/man of your dreams is making people jump through hoops and compete for their affections, you know that it's not worth it. They're in it for the attention, not anything more.

I met my fiance through a chance encounter, we got along very well. Went to the movies a few times with friends, and without noticing it started to hang out only together. Eventually, maybe a tad later than I should have (but hey, what is a shy guy to do?), I told her that I wanted to be with her as her boyfriend, man, or something. Six months later we moved in together. Another six months from that, I proposed.

We're getting married next year and it has never been any more complicated than that. I don't see why it should be.
Challenge accepted. I shall kidnap your fiance and force you to jump through a series of improbable dungeon like scenarios and unrelated puzzles until you find her half-way across the planet after foiling my scheme for world domination that otherwise didn't concern you. WHO WILL JOIN ME?!?!
 

pierre666lol

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"The book of love is long and borring, and full of instructions for dancing"

Love is by all means a slow process, takes time, effort and patience; much like learning a dance.
 

Andalusa

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I agree with Tim Minchin: love is nothing to do with destined perfection the connection is strengthened, the affection simply grows over time, and love is made more powerful by the ongoing drama of shared experience and the synergy of a kind of symbiotic empathy or... something
 

Vegosiux

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Aylaine said:
Ultimately, I feel that how each individual feels regarding their love & how thy got it is what should matter to them the most. :)
I think (or hope) as people grow up they realize that "love" is nothing but an ideal, something that sounds good as motivation, but is utterly not something a relationship can run on alone.

We're not in a cliche anime high school anymore. Other things become more important, things like trust, stability, companionship, intimacy, and the general feeling of having a safe refuge.
 

Vegosiux

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Aylaine said:
Wouldn't love/feelings in general be the sticky substance that holds that all together in terms of a relationship though? Aside from intimacy, everything there could apply to a friendship as well. Even then, friends with benefits do exist as well. I'm not sure that love has a absolute definition either. Everyone is going to define it the way they want, I believe. It's essentially why we have people who harm their significant others, deceive, lie, etc or act out towards them because they love them. :O
I don't know, I'd still say it's trust that holds it all together. With no trust, a relationship is doomed to fail. Doubt is a relationship killer, and that's why communication is something that really needs to run.

And "friends with benefits" is an expression I really dislike - the expression, I mean, not what it means. Sounds a bit pretentious to me. That's just a pet peeve of mine though, and thought I'd mention it tangentially.
 

DoomyMcDoom

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MakerofMysteries said:
So a lot of movies, books, hell, even games, especially those dating simulators, empathise "winning" someone's love; in fact it's a rather common view throughout society, with deep roots in various fables and legends. As such, my query; why these mad mating rituals?

Perhaps I should explain. If we are to take the stereotypical example of a boy trying to win the girl of his dreams (probably defeating some evil arch nemesis along the way whilst performing a rocking guitar solo), the story usually goes that she initially shows no interest for him, perhaps even disdain, thus prompting him to impress her through various spectacles of supposed affection. In the end, she'll fall for him due to all his wacky, cloying attempts at romance, cut to kisses and wedding scene, the end.

Now, why the hell are we supposed to coerce relationships into existence via such efforts? Granted, love at first sight is far more moronic, but what good will ever come of forcing someone to become infatuated with you? Is this just the modern adaptation of someone pre-historic mating ritual where Grog crushes Trog's head and gives Groggina a flower so that they may procreate?

However, since all my romantic emotions and other lovey-dovey sentiments could barely fill the average teaspoon (and even then they'd be dissolved by my corrosive cynicism), I ask you, fellow escapists; what good comes of forcing love? Should it not grow naturally?
Lemme just put this in, right here, sure one could call it an opinion derived from personal experience, but lemme say, I have a LOT of experience, and watching my many male friends succeed or fail as well as witnessing my own shit.

YOU CANNOT EVER TRULY "WIN" LOVE THROUGH EXPRESSION USING MATERIAL GOODS OR FAVORS.

You just can't, I have never seen a happy lasting relationship grow from this sort of obsequeous asskissing and vapid mindless expenditure of monetary resources.

All it ends up is gaining the appreciation of gold diggers who will inevitably cheat on you, providing you aren't so incredibly wealthy and clueless that they can see an endless source of money and be able to cheat on you without you acknowledging it.

Love is based off of a complex series of subconscious and conscious connections, based on a person in total, how you handle yourself, how you act, how you talk, how you stand, how you smell, these things allow love to develop, if all you focus on is money, you will never experience any kind of real chemistry with a likeminded female, ever.

Reason being is that in a materialistic approach you trigger an entirely separate set of subconscious signals that set you up immediately as a weakling who is good only as a resource.

Not saying that a gift every now and again is a bad thing, just, resources should never be the foundation of a relationship...
 

EeveeElectro

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Obviously movies are such are so unrealistic in depicting relationships and how people get together.
I've never known a girl to fall in love with a guy because he wouldn't give up trying to win her over. I think it'd drive most people away!
Also the girls in movies the guy wants is usually such a *****, why would you want to date someone so horrible just because they're attractive?! That's not love.

I could make an Oreo dress and bring you a bacon sandwich when you're playing your xbox, that wouldn't make you love me. Probably like me a hell of a lot, but love is connecting on an emotional/sexual level among other things.

If you have to convince someone to love you... it's not going to work.