"Winning" someone's love

[Xman490]

Every time I've tried to win somebodies love, I completely failed.

If a girl doesn't like you, ask out a thousand more and maybe you'll find somebody who does...

Have you ever had the feeling that it's like gambling on a machine that may be rigged? I have.

Have you ever had the feeling that parents and similar people lie when they say you are still attractive despite romantic disappointments? I have.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I'm with:

I like to think of it more as "earning" rather than "winning," but that's just me.

This fellow. Winning someones love, to me, implies that love has a price. Which to me it does not, for it's priceless. ♥


Thus I earn. ♥

I am very pleased that we agree on this Aylaine. My problem, however, is that I tend to give mine away too easily.

You've tried being more cautious about it, I take it?

Yes, but my heart tends to have a mind of it's own.

Not many people can control how they feel, especially when it comes to things like that. All you can do is try your best, hoping for results. Giving it your all ensures that you know deep down that you did try to make it work. ♥

Except I don't know that. I'm constantly filled with self-doubt and the feeling that I somehow failed the object of my affections.

EDIT: Just realized that that was a poor choice of words. Correction: the subject of my affections... no that doesn't work either. Um... the person to whom I was devoted.

 

[blackrave]

I like to think of it more as "earning" rather than "winning," but that's just me.

^This

Also I always considered "winning" princess a cheap premise

My favorite fairy tales involved
*king being pissed by princess and marrying her to random guy, to teach her a lesson. then this random guy end up actually decent/rich/brave person that saves kingdom and improves relationship with his new spouse
*princess being kidnapped, saved by hero, hero being injured and being incapacitated. while princess and hero are unconscious, villain comes, takes princess to king and claims being the one who saved her, and demanding marriage, princess demands "proper" waiting period and during it hero comes and deals with villain
*princess marrying in spite with random dude and then [check 1st example]
*girl saving/getting the prince for a change

See there are examples of different tales

 

[SlaveNumber23]

This might be a good time to point out that the commonness of "winning someone's love" in stories isn't necessarily a reflection on society but rather that it would make for a rather boring story if the woman fell for the guy straight away! To be interesting a story has to have tension some way and having to win someone's love is a tried and tested way of doing so.

Exactly, to make an interesting story you have to give your characters a 'challenge' to overcome and 'winning' the affections of a love interest is a very easy one to pull off. You aren't meant to take it seriously as advice for real life, its merely something manufactured to create entertainment, this is one of those examples where 'that shit only happens in the movies' is relevant.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I like to think of it more as "earning" rather than "winning," but that's just me.

^This

Also I always considered "winning" princess a cheap premise

My favorite fairy tales involved
*king being pissed by princess and marrying her to random guy, to teach her a lesson. then this random guy end up actually decent/rich/brave person that saves kingdom and improves relationship with his new spouse
*princess being kidnapped, saved by hero, hero being injured and being incapacitated. while princess and hero are unconscious, villain comes, takes princess to king and claims being the one who saved her, and demanding marriage, princess demands "proper" waiting period and during it hero comes and deals with villain
*princess marrying in spite with random dude and then [check 1st example]
*girl saving/getting the prince for a change

See there are examples of different tales

I don't think I'm familiar with any tales like those. Please give me some examples.

 

[MortisLegio]

I have held many in my heart, but none of them would hold me in their arms

OT: Though it has already been posted I think it's more about "earning" her affection than "winning" it.

 

[blackrave]

I don't think I'm familiar with any tales like those. Please give me some examples.

I need to go to my parents house, then dig through my childhood books to find right ones, then find exact fairy tales
Too much hassle, so sorry, no particular examples
But I mostly read german and french fairy tales, so look into those

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I'm with:

I like to think of it more as "earning" rather than "winning," but that's just me.

This fellow. Winning someones love, to me, implies that love has a price. Which to me it does not, for it's priceless. ♥


Thus I earn. ♥

I am very pleased that we agree on this Aylaine. My problem, however, is that I tend to give mine away too easily.

You've tried being more cautious about it, I take it?

Yes, but my heart tends to have a mind of it's own.

Not many people can control how they feel, especially when it comes to things like that. All you can do is try your best, hoping for results. Giving it your all ensures that you know deep down that you did try to make it work. ♥

Except I don't know that. I'm constantly filled with self-doubt and the feeling that I somehow failed the object of my affections.

EDIT: Just realized that that was a poor choice of words. Correction: the subject of my affections... no that doesn't work either. Um... the person to whom I was devoted.

What fuels that doubt though? Is it something the devotee says, or is it something else?

I honestly don't know, but somehow 9 times out of 10 whenever a relationship fails for me I'm always feel that it's somehow my fault. The only exceptions being when the girl clearly threw my heart on the floor an stomped on it.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

I am a man whose primary sources of enjoyment are Fantasy, Science Fiction (Playing the new Xcom and lovehating it so hard right now) and candy-colored equines.
And yet, it is most of the traditional love stories that I find silly or baffling (well, that and people's love of *watching* sports. Playing them, however, rocks.)
Romantic comedies and chick flicks tend to be the top offenders, but I'll admit OP's example has caused me several moments of 'wat' and 'this...doesn't seem...right'.

 

[Hagi]

I like to think of it more as "earning" rather than "winning," but that's just me.

I'd go one step further, love should be given not earned or won.

Whether or not you receive it isn't up to you. You can't earn it, you can't win it. It's completely up to the other.

Whether or not you give it however is up to you. And then you can only wait and see if the other also gives theirs.

If so, then hey you've found love. If not, no use crying about it and take yours back even if it hurts.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I like to think of it more as "earning" rather than "winning," but that's just me.

I'd go one step further, love should be given not earned or won.

Whether or not you receive it isn't up to you. You can't earn it, you can't win it. It's completely up to the other.

Whether or not you give it however is up to you. And then you can only wait and see if the other also gives theirs.

If so, then hey you've found love. If not, no use crying about it and take yours back even if it hurts.

Well I figured it was earned by giving the other person a reason to love you back or at least trying to. But I suppose you're right.

I'm with:

I like to think of it more as "earning" rather than "winning," but that's just me.

This fellow. Winning someones love, to me, implies that love has a price. Which to me it does not, for it's priceless. ♥


Thus I earn. ♥

I am very pleased that we agree on this Aylaine. My problem, however, is that I tend to give mine away too easily.

You've tried being more cautious about it, I take it?

Yes, but my heart tends to have a mind of it's own.

Not many people can control how they feel, especially when it comes to things like that. All you can do is try your best, hoping for results. Giving it your all ensures that you know deep down that you did try to make it work. ♥

Except I don't know that. I'm constantly filled with self-doubt and the feeling that I somehow failed the object of my affections.

EDIT: Just realized that that was a poor choice of words. Correction: the subject of my affections... no that doesn't work either. Um... the person to whom I was devoted.

What fuels that doubt though? Is it something the devotee says, or is it something else?

I honestly don't know, but somehow 9 times out of 10 whenever a relationship fails for me I'm always feel that it's somehow my fault. The only exceptions being when the girl clearly threw my heart on the floor an stomped on it.

Hum. I'll have to talk to you about this in private. I might have some insight. ^-^

Any insight at all would be helpful.

 

[HardkorSB]

So a lot of movies, books, hell, even games, especially those dating simulators, empathise "winning" someone's love; in fact it's a rather common view throughout society, with deep roots in various fables and legends. As such, my query; why these mad mating rituals?

Perhaps I should explain. If we are to take the stereotypical example of a boy trying to win the girl of his dreams (probably defeating some evil arch nemesis along the way whilst performing a rocking guitar solo), the story usually goes that she initially shows no interest for him, perhaps even disdain, thus prompting him to impress her through various spectacles of supposed affection. In the end, she'll fall for him due to all his wacky, cloying attempts at romance, cut to kisses and wedding scene, the end.

Now, why the hell are we supposed to coerce relationships into existence via such efforts? Granted, love at first sight is far more moronic, but what good will ever come of forcing someone to become infatuated with you? Is this just the modern adaptation of someone pre-historic mating ritual where Grog crushes Trog's head and gives Groggina a flower so that they may procreate?

However, since all my romantic emotions and other lovey-dovey sentiments could barely fill the average teaspoon (and even then they'd be dissolved by my corrosive cynicism), I ask you, fellow escapists; what good comes of forcing love? Should it not grow naturally?

It's called storytelling.
It's presenting a simplified version of reality for the purpose of telling a story.
Stories like this are popular because there are a lot of people who have that person they fancy but is out of their reach. They want to be able to perform these various spectacles of affection to make that person fancy them back.
Of course, in fiction, things are going to be EXTREME so that the story can be more exciting.
Haven't you ever fantasized about getting something/someone you couldn't or is your life so great that you always get what you want?

Whether or not you receive it isn't up to you. You can't earn it, you can't win it. It's completely up to the other.

It's not completely up to the other and you can earn it.
One of the most important factors in a long lasting relationship (and, to me, love doesn't really happen all of a sudden, that first couple of months is just attraction) is compromise. You're sharing your life with another person. If you won't put any effort into it and sacrifice certain things (sometimes, a lot of things), you might lose that person. That's how you "earn" love.

 

[beniki]

So a lot of movies, books, hell, even games, especially those dating simulators, empathise "winning" someone's love; in fact it's a rather common view throughout society, with deep roots in various fables and legends. As such, my query; why these mad mating rituals?

Perhaps I should explain. If we are to take the stereotypical example of a boy trying to win the girl of his dreams (probably defeating some evil arch nemesis along the way whilst performing a rocking guitar solo), the story usually goes that she initially shows no interest for him, perhaps even disdain, thus prompting him to impress her through various spectacles of supposed affection. In the end, she'll fall for him due to all his wacky, cloying attempts at romance, cut to kisses and wedding scene, the end.

Now, why the hell are we supposed to coerce relationships into existence via such efforts? Granted, love at first sight is far more moronic, but what good will ever come of forcing someone to become infatuated with you? Is this just the modern adaptation of someone pre-historic mating ritual where Grog crushes Trog's head and gives Groggina a flower so that they may procreate?

However, since all my romantic emotions and other lovey-dovey sentiments could barely fill the average teaspoon (and even then they'd be dissolved by my corrosive cynicism), I ask you, fellow escapists; what good comes of forcing love? Should it not grow naturally?

Well actually it's a metaphor for self-improvement rather than 'forcing love'.

Generally the hero starts off lacking confidence/strength/character etc., which is why the romantic interest isn't interested. Then the hero grows as a character, and becomes a better person, which is what attracts the love interest.

A good example of this is Sam in Lord of the Rings. At the beginning he and Rosie have an attraction, but he's too shy to do anything about it. Then he goes off on the adventure, comes back mature and determined, downs his pint and marries her. Or take Scott Pilgrim. His initial romance with Ramona is rocky and full of sighs, but at the end he acquires the power of self-respect, and everything (probably) works out. Or for a crappy rom com example: Seth Rogen in Knocked Up. He literally starts off as a lazy bum making a porn site, but by the end of the movie has a job and shows himself capable of handling Katherine Heigl's demanding family... which gets him the happy ending.

Yes, there's the attempts at romantic gestures, but these are usually played for laughs... the audience gets a giggle out of how stupid the hero is being. Only in badly written stories are these things played straight (e.g. Twilight: 'I break into your room at night because I like to watch you sleep.')

That's generally how it works in real life too. Self-improvement leads to happy ending.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Love isn't won with grand gestures, it's proven with all the little things.

 

[Strazdas]

I'm with:

I like to think of it more as "earning" rather than "winning," but that's just me.

This fellow. Winning someones love, to me, implies that love has a price. Which to me it does not, for it's priceless. ♥


Thus I earn. ♥

i have to second that. however i think females should earn their love as much as males.

 

[MakerofMysteries]

snip

snip

In response to the two gentlemen/ladies/individuals above:

I feel that I at this point should stress that I myself do not espouse these precise views on society, relationships etc. and that yes, of course the examples presented above are exaggerated.

So, yes, it is a completely antiquated idea at least in the sense that you are talking about. However, these tropes are just so imbedded in the cultural landscape, I don't think they are going anywhere for a long while.

This explains my thoughts on the matter quite well. It's might also be worth mentioning that my annoyance with this trend stems from the assertions of various acquaintances of mine (mostly females with, IMHO, distorted views on reality and romance). Also worth mentioning might be the fact that I value some of these individuals slightly less than stale cheese and that their intellects and ambitions might as well have been copy pasted from (insert crap reality show here). What worries me is that people whom I actually respect tend to agree with Giggle-Brains and Smash-Drink-Shag whenever the subject is broached; and anyway, this makes for good rant-material.

Finally, I realise that I probably just sound bitter and spiteful, but the Escapist is generally a good place to ask around if you want a decently intelligent, unprejudiced opinion. I feel glimmer of pride for my fellow escapist whenever someone preaches for acceptance and tolerance and equality for people of varying sexualities/genders/ethnicities/creeds/etc and most of the community eagerly nods along. Now, I don't know what I'm talking about, so long. *scampers off*

 

[Nickolai77]

So a lot of movies, books, hell, even games, especially those dating simulators, empathise "winning" someone's love; in fact it's a rather common view throughout society, with deep roots in various fables and legends. As such, my query; why these mad mating rituals?

Perhaps I should explain. If we are to take the stereotypical example of a boy trying to win the girl of his dreams (probably defeating some evil arch nemesis along the way whilst performing a rocking guitar solo), the story usually goes that she initially shows no interest for him, perhaps even disdain, thus prompting him to impress her through various spectacles of supposed affection. In the end, she'll fall for him due to all his wacky, cloying attempts at romance, cut to kisses and wedding scene, the end.

Well, I think the issue is that these stories have roots in certain fairy tales or other old stories.

Recall that "romantic love" or "marrying for love" is a fairly recent concept. Historically, it was more common for marriage to be the results of land mergers between families. Before that, it involved land gifts from lords or their vassals - say a King to his Knights. A knight would have to prove his worth to his king. If he did so, he'd "win" a wife.

Well, what you're saying here largely applies to the aristocracy who would have been mindful to advance up the social and political ladder through marriage, it doesn't account for the other "99%" of the population who were ordinary farmers and small time shopkeepers. Based on when these kind of people started to write things down (around 17th century) i think it's reasonable to say that they married for love based on what they wrote in their personal diaries and what was circulating through popular ballads at the time.

Personally, i think ordinary people throughout history have always married out of love, the writings of the aristocracy (which understandably dominate historical literature) complicate things by throwing in social advancement into the equation as a major factor to consider (but not the only one, they considered love and genuine compatibility as well)- but one shouldn't draw the conclusion that romantic love is a new concept for all because a load of rich people wrote about marrying for reasons other than love. Their writings arn't representative of the broader population.

Going back further, think of the animal kingdom in general. Males often have to do mating rituals to impress a female for the purposes of breeding. Why? To prove that they're superior genetic stock. The female deer wants strong children, so she mates with the buck that kills three other bucks in one-on-one combat.

Back to fairy tales, the Knight who slays the Dragon, when a dozen other knights fell to it's teeth and breath, has proven that he is superior genetic stock.

All of this has seeped into the collective consciousness. Today, men get into fights to impress women, or buy fancy cars to show how wealthy they are. These are ways of proving that they are superior genetic stock and thus attract a mate.

Is this a good thing? No. Not it is not. There are better ways to choose today.

I'd drink to that! The social emphasis on males impressing females has always really annoyed me. I agree it's probably rooted in our evolution but it's very much reinforced by popular culture. It encourages some dickish behaviour in males, encourages women to be romantically passive and it disadvantages a lot of other males who arn't so forward in their nature. I'd love to see dating conventions become more egalitarian, but even in an age after feminism it hasn't happened.

 

[MetalMagpie]

My boyfriend didn't need to do anything to "win" my love, and I didn't need to do anything to "win" his. And it wasn't "love at first sight" (which I suspect may be a myth anyway).

It was "he's quite cute" at first sight, then as we got to know each other we hit it off more and more. Having-a-laugh gradually turned into flirting and friendly messing around turned into an excuse to hold hands. Then one day he invited me to his halls room to watch a DVD and during a quiet part of the film we kissed. (The film was Pulp Fiction, which makes this story a little less romantic.)

Anyway, there was never a distinct moment when I moved from "not in love" to "in love". In fact, it was six months into our relationship before I felt comfortable enough to say the magic words "I love you". And it was a couple of years before I realised that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with this guy.

TLDR In my experience, love develops over time. It doesn't turn on like a light-switch.

 

[Shraggler]

I hate the idea of "winning" someone's love because the guy is doing all the work while the girl just sits back and reaps the benefits.

Hahahahahaha, that sounds so bitter. Oh my gerd, I just pissed myself laughing. Gross. Urine.

OT: I think it's a load of shit. Winning someone's love seems arbitrary and shallow. "You must defeat X and attain Y in order to bang me." Fuck you.

 

[Not Matt]

okay. love is not won it's developed. it is the evolved form of trust and affection both of which have to be earned. notice how nobody says "i love you" before they have gotten to know each other well enough (before you ask, no i don't believe in love at first sight). real life isn't super Mario where if you do something to "win the girl" she is instantly in love with you. the real world doesn't work like that no matter how many turtles you jump on