Wisconsin Protests

[darkfire613]

As some of you are aware, there are currently massive protests going on in Wisconsin against Governor Walker's proposed bill that would, among other things, force public workers to pay for pensions and health insurance, and remove collective bargaining from unions. The protests have been so massive, schools have been closed both Wednesday and today, and will be tomorrow as well. I've been at the downtown protests on all the days they've been going, tomorrow will be my fourth consecutive day at the protests.

What are your thoughts on the issue? Yes, I know a lot of Escapists don't live in Wisconsin or even the US, but what if someone tried to pass a similar bill in your area, how would you respond?

 

[PROcrastinator]

They are not only doing this in Wisconsin, but in other States as well. Florida is also trying to pass such laws as well as take out the retirement plan for public workers. These kind of laws are just going to turn-off those who wish to become cops, teachers, and firefighters and then our future is looking grim for sure

 

[WanderingFool]

Yeah, im not really sure what is being discussed.

...force public workers to pay for pensions and health insurance, and remove collective bargaining from unions.

Im sure on the Paying for pension and health insurance, but not quite sure about the bargaining with Unions part. Enlighten please? If im going to form an opinion, I would like to have all the facts straight.

 

[darkfire613]

Yeah, im not really sure what is being discussed.

...force public workers to pay for pensions and health insurance, and remove collective bargaining from unions.

Im sure on the Paying for pension and health insurance, but not quite sure about the bargaining with Unions part. Enlighten please? If im going to form an opinion, I would like to have all the facts straight.

Basically, public workers won't have the right to bargain for fair hours, raises, or anything. It effectively breaks all the power of the unions. Another part of the law is that anyone who goes on strike to protest can be fired fairly easily. The Governor has also said that if the bill doesn't pass, he'll fire 6,000 state workers who were at the protests.

 

[flagship]

The Governor has also said that if the bill doesn't pass, he'll fire 6,000 state workers who were at the protests.

Wow, you're governor really is crazy! Although I'm not sure how if his bill fails he could fire 6k specific people with the collective bargaining agreements still in place.

The increased medical and retirement costs he's proposing are actually similar to what's happened in a lot of other state like over here in Washington. However most other states have been gradual about it, slowly increasing costs had haven't shoved a law like this through with almost no time to debate it.

Limitations on collective bargaining irke me but sadly unions have pretty much died off in the private sector so I'm sure the public sector will soon follow.

 

[godofallu]

First off I live in WI, second off i'm an Econ Major so I get to be surrounded by Econ professors all day debating this thing. Say goodbye to actual class for a week, I guess it's good that I don't have to take notes.

Now first off school was only closed in Madison, there was no statewide school closings or anything of the sort.

Second off his bill is going to double the rate state workers pay for healthcare, from 75 dollars to 150 for most employees. It will also eliminate the rights for state workers to use their unions to collectively bargain for raises. Oh and there is a flat 8% pay cut too.

So what do these three things mean? 1 State workers are getting some serious cutbacks. 2 Union rights are getting weakened for stateworkers.

Now keep in mind WI has a pretty substantial budget deficit and our economic condition has been pretty crappy leading to pay cuts in the public sector. Also keep in mind that State employees got 3% pay cuts across the board 1-3 years ago.

I could talk all day about this issue, and my take on it, but who would want to read more?

 

[Worgen]

from what Ive heard all the dems have fled the state to prevent the major republican majority from being able to pass it

many states have a certain number of legislators that need to be present to pass something so when a bill will be railroaded tho sometimes the minority will flee the state so it cant be voted on, the dems tried to do that here in tx to prevent the redistricting bs that happened awhile ago but one of them came back to protest it in person but that left enough present to vote so it was passed and we got expertly gerrymandered districts that heavily favor republicans now

 

[mattttherman3]

Hmm, I live in Canada so I don't really know. But if the government ever tried to get rid of public healthcare, it would be overthrown.

 

[photog212]

I could talk all day about this issue, and my take on it, but who would want to read more?

Me.

I'm very pro union, so I support the efforts that the protesters are making. I remember the days when the words 'pro-union' were not used in a negative way or as an insult.

 

[Light 086]

I'd respond with a shotgun hahahaha j/k. I'd definitely be vocal get some people to protest, possible even protest myself. Thank god I live in Canada, we got free health care(well not free our taxes pay for it, but still...).

 

[godofallu]

I could talk all day about this issue, and my take on it, but who would want to read more?

Me.

I'm very pro union, so I support the efforts that the protesters are making. I remember the days when the words 'pro-union' were not used in a negative way or as an insult.

I boasted yesterday of "talking all day" if i had to, but that was yesterday.

If you're pro union I must warn you, our governor is a follower of the tea party, which is extremely anti union. Our governor also dropped out of college his senior year and has no degree.

Honestly next step on his agenda (besides seperating UW-Madison from the UW system) is probably going to be moving towards a right to work state. Basically this means that workers don't have to pay union dues, they choose if they do or not. That leads to less union members actually paying, and subsequently less bargaining power for unions.

Now 22 other states already have the right to work setup, and life would go on even if we had it. That said unions keep wages up, benefits, and working conditions.

It seems our governors current plan is to move to weaken unions and setup corporate tax cuts in order to coax businesses to move to WI. The problem there is that the businesses that would be moving in don't bring high paying technical jobs, which is what we should want for ourselves and our future.

As far as the threats of firing people who protest, and the splitting up of the Milwaukee public school system goes shame on him.

Personally I feel the bill is overly hurtful to state workers, since they already get paid less then their public sector equivalent. Let's face it state workers have far less salary, the cheap healthcare/benefits partially make up for the loss in pay but not enough to make the two jobs equal. A cut on their pay is harsh since they already make less, but demonizing them as the cause of our troubles is where the mayor really crosses the lines.

A change in sales tax from 5% to 5.05% is enough to equal the cash saved by cutting these state workers pay/benefits. It would also spread the burden equally, and without demonizing a minority group. It would also hurt out economy less, when you hurt the incomes of a group of people so severely they spend less. A sales tax of a penny, on the other hand, won't lead to consumers spending less.

There are many ways to fix the budget, this "plan" has been proposed as the only way. That is simply put a lie. This collective bargaining being removed might be acceptable if there was a time limit IMO, say 2 years. That way the governor could argue he just wants to cut costs without spending tons of cash negotiating with powerful unions. But taking away these bargaining rights for an indefinite period of time? Not fair or smart.

 

[Purple Dragon]

okay America's sunk in debt and lets public workers retire on gold plated pensions so make them pay more fair enough, but remove the power of collective bargaining Jesus tha something out of a dictatorship

 

[SimuLord]

The very notion of a government removing the fundamental right of workers to organize suggests that America's soon to be headed toward a Tunisia/Egypt/Yemen/Bahrain/whatever Middle Eastern country wants to start having demonstrations today situation.

And I for one couldn't be happier. It shows me that the citizens have finally been pushed far enough by the government and are starting to push back instead of meekly sitting back and taking it. Displays of actual citizenship? There's hope for this idiot country yet.

 

[thethingthatlurks]

I boasted yesterday of "talking all day" if i had to, but that was yesterday.

If you're pro union I must warn you, our governor is a follower of the tea party, which is extremely anti union. Our governor also dropped out of college his senior year and has no degree.

Honestly next step on his agenda (besides seperating UW-Madison from the UW system) is probably going to be moving towards a right to work state. Basically this means that workers don't have to pay union dues, they choose if they do or not. That leads to less union members actually paying, and subsequently less bargaining power for unions.

Now 22 other states already have the right to work setup, and life would go on even if we had it. That said unions keep wages up, benefits, and working conditions.

It seems our governors current plan is to move to weaken unions and setup corporate tax cuts in order to coax businesses to move to WI. The problem there is that the businesses that would be moving in don't bring high paying technical jobs, which is what we should want for ourselves and our future.

As far as the threats of firing people who protest, and the splitting up of the Milwaukee public school system goes shame on him.

Personally I feel the bill is overly hurtful to state workers, since they already get paid less then their public sector equivalent. Let's face it state workers have far less salary, the cheap healthcare/benefits partially make up for the loss in pay but not enough to make the two jobs equal. A cut on their pay is harsh since they already make less, but demonizing them as the cause of our troubles is where the mayor really crosses the lines.

A change in sales tax from 5% to 5.05% is enough to equal the cash saved by cutting these state workers pay/benefits. It would also spread the burden equally, and without demonizing a minority group. It would also hurt out economy less, when you hurt the incomes of a group of people so severely they spend less. A sales tax of a penny, on the other hand, won't lead to consumers spending less.

There are many ways to fix the budget, this "plan" has been proposed as the only way. That is simply put a lie. This collective bargaining being removed might be acceptable if there was a time limit IMO, say 2 years. That way the governor could argue he just wants to cut costs without spending tons of cash negotiating with powerful unions. But taking away these bargaining rights for an indefinite period of time? Not fair or smart.

Thanks for your insights! Your governor doesn't exactly strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed (though I'm residing in Texas, so...). I'm curious though, what is his rationale for singling out unions in order to balance the budget, aside form his tea party affiliation. And how is he liked up there, just from what you've observed?

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

The very notion of a government removing the fundamental right of workers to organize suggests that America's soon to be headed toward a Tunisia/Egypt/Yemen/Bahrain/whatever Middle Eastern country wants to start having demonstrations today situation.

And I for one couldn't be happier. It shows me that the citizens have finally been pushed far enough by the government and are starting to push back instead of meekly sitting back and taking it. Displays of actual citizenship? There's hope for this idiot country yet.

the irony is that the person spearheading the government's attack is a Tea Partier who claims to be anti-government. ofc, all they really mean by "anti-government" is "fuck taxes". government can burden someone else, as long as they don't take my money!

 

[godofallu]

He hasn't really gone after unions all that much yet, aside from the collective bargaining thing.

The basic rational he has been using is that state workers are lazy fat cats who pay a tenth what we do for healthcare and other benefits, and they sit behind their unions bathed in decadence.

He forgets to mention that they get paid less... or that unions protect workers from threats. IE him.

How is he liked? Well all state workers loath him, and a lot of informed people dislike him. He has a few followers but the majority of informed people seem to be against him. Then again the biggest section of the public doesn't know what is going on or doesn't care. Our voter turnout for governors isn't exactly high.

Personally he ran as a republican, not a tea party. He never said this was how he was going to act once elected. With Obama noone was surprised that he pushed for healthcare even though it was a big issue, but with Walker this all came out of nowhere.

 

[Worgen]

I'd respond with a shotgun hahahaha j/k. I'd definitely be vocal get some people to protest, possible even protest myself. Thank god I live in Canada, we got free health care(well not free our taxes pay for it, but still...).

you need to be careful even in canada, you have conservative fuckholes from here that are trying to establish the whole right wing thing up there and they are slowly but surly making progress

 

[Yureina]

As some of you are aware, there are currently massive protests going on in Wisconsin against Governor Walker's proposed bill that would, among other things, force public workers to pay for pensions and health insurance, and remove collective bargaining from unions. The protests have been so massive, schools have been closed both Wednesday and today, and will be tomorrow as well. I've been at the downtown protests on all the days they've been going, tomorrow will be my fourth consecutive day at the protests.

What are your thoughts on the issue? Yes, I know a lot of Escapists don't live in Wisconsin or even the US, but what if someone tried to pass a similar bill in your area, how would you respond?

Whaaaaaat?

What is this, the 19th century?

I've not heard about this, but it certainly seems screwed up to me. >_<

 

[conflictofinterests]

I'm fairly sure all the states are being hit pretty hard, and while I don't agree with the part about nullifying the unions, the money for pensions has to come from somewhere. At least they're not cutting them out all together like some places are talking about.

 

[ace_of_something]

It's a big issue here as well. They had a recall election for the mayor because of it... even though he made it so that the main issue (that people were getting retirement pay based on overtime pay they worked in the last couple years) could not occur in the future.

this economy has left people touchy about 'big government officials' (such as deputy sheriffs like myself) who get 'big benefits' such as retirement at a slightly earlier age than most people.