Witcher 2 was developed favoring console over PC

Wolfram23

New member
Mar 23, 2004
4,095
0
0
Ok so most people who have already played Witcher 2 know a few things. They know that combat is finicky due to the targeting system. It's based around your camera view, which happens to be twitchy, so you often end up accidentally switching targets if you don't lock on. There's also the wierd loot system, where the item box pops up and you hit Space to loot. But then in menues, like when you're upgrading or making potions, sometimes you use Space to use, sometimes it's enter. That's not ergonomic useage of keyboard space. It's also a bit wierd that the mouse doesn't get centered on things, like when you open a conversation I find it's faster to just use the arrow keys to select items instead of the mouse because I never know where the mouse pointer will be. And finally, in your inventory if you use the keyboard, TAB is used to scroll through the different menus (weapons, ranged weapons, armour, bombs, etc) and only goes in one direction. Oh, and the mouse scroll wheel doesn't work (AFAIK).

Ok so why does this mean it was developed for consoles??

Well, last night I plugged in my gamepad. And was blown away by how much better it is than mouse and keyboard in this game.

First off, combat. No longer does the direction of the camera matter for targetting opponents!!! It's now dependant on your movment joystick. Push RIGHT and attack, and you attack the target to your right. Then push LEFT and attack, and you go attack one on the left! It's so much smoother, it feels almost like Batman Arkham Asylum in that way. How did they not bother to implement this with WASD???

Secondly, looting. Once you're using a gamepad, a loot box actually appears in the corner of the screen, without clicking anything! You can SEE what you might get, and then you hit ONE BUTTON and it automatically loots it. Compared to having to highlight the loot container, click the mouse to open the loot box, and then hit Space to loot it... so much simpler! I can quickly look over many garbage loots in seconds due to it automatically showing what will be looted, rather than going highlight->click->escape, highlight->click->escape, highlight->click->escape, etc.

When it comes to menus, well there's still the 2 button system. On PC it's Space and Enter. On gamepad it's A and Y (or X and triangle if you use a PS3 controller like me). At least they're both under your thumb, not on the other side of a keyboard.

And the last thing is the inventory. Now, it's a little wierd with the gamepad because it auto selects your equipment so you need to hit LEFT a couple times to get to the item menus, but aside from that to scroll through your menu lists you use L1 and R1, so you can actually go both ways through the items. And then simply up/down to scroll through the lists. I think a mouse is slightly faster for selecting the top menu item, but in terms of going through the lists of items themselves the gamepad and arrows are best IMO.

So basically, I find the game is a lot easier to use with a gamepad, which is odd considering all the RPGs I've played on PC that have no problem with mouse and keyboard, including the first Witcher. But there's some distinct changes (combat and loot) that really give the gamepad an edge in my opinion.

I did notice a few game design elements that favor consoles but I don't mind them, because it looks and plays great anyway. The main thing I noticed though is loading zones - whenever you go through a double door system. So, for example, in Flotsam you might notice ever single exit out of the city has 2 doors you need to go through. Yeah, it makes some sense for defense but it's actually a loading zone. I've also noticed when the camera changes position a lot in cutscenes I can often catch models/textures getting reloaded - so for example a character will be very blurry for a split second and then the textures pop in. This is something devs do on consoles due to the low amount of RAM, so they stream in the high res textures only as needed and use low res when things are off camera. I also notice a bit of this sort of thing when moving outdoors, textures kind of pop into higher res as you get closer, but sometimes it changes the face of the rocks or whatever so at times it's noticeable. Still, I'm not complaining because like I said it looks great and plays very well, I'm just pointing out that they used techniques that aren't really needed in gaming PCs with 4+ gigs of RAM. Oh and I also noticed that shadows on character models are wierd. They look like crosshatching. I don't know what that's about.

Last thing. I'm guessing here (actually, I'm betting) that people are going to come in and be all upset like I'm trying to showcase PC superiority. That is NOT THE CASE. If you read my arguments, I'm meerly stating that the controls - you know, what makes the game actually playable and can easily ruin the experience if done poorly - work not just better, but WAY better and quite differently, with a gamepad.

EDIT I forgot one more thing, arm wrestling!! It's the biggest pain in the ass on PC. You have to move the mouse left and right to keep the icon centered on the bar, but it's extremely non responsive and vague. Using the thumbstick on a gamepad is ridiculously easy in comparison.
 

Togs

New member
Dec 8, 2010
1,468
0
0
1. Is the game great?
2. Did it come out 1st on PC?
3. Can you use a gamepad on PC?

Your arguement is invalid.
 

Iron Lightning

Lightweight Extreme
Oct 19, 2009
1,237
0
0
Sounds like it's optimized for a gamepad in the same way that flight sims are optimized for a joystick. Since it doesn't appear to be coming to consoles at any time in the near future, I seriously doubt that it was designed with them in mind.

It's a rather curious control optimization, however.
 

Danceofmasks

New member
Jul 16, 2010
1,512
0
0
The game plays better if you use a control scheme that doesn't involve the pause menu during combat.
I'm serious.

 

Wolfram23

New member
Mar 23, 2004
4,095
0
0
Togs said:
1. Is the game great?
2. Did it come out 1st on PC?
3. Can you use a gamepad on PC?

Your arguement is invalid.
...what? 1) Doesn't matter in the least. 2) Doesn't matter in the least. 3) Yes, which is obviously how I discovered that the gamepad controls are significantly better... duh. That's my point.
 

bob1052

New member
Oct 12, 2010
774
0
0
I'm curious how having the mouse control the camera is a bad thing and shows how the game was developed for consoles.

Also the game is graphically intensive, even on PCs. My few years old PC which hasn't had any trouble recent games on high had to go down to medium for TW2. Those buffer areas between zones were needed, even on PCs.
 

Wolfram23

New member
Mar 23, 2004
4,095
0
0
bob1052 said:
I'm curious how having the mouse control the camera is a bad thing and shows how the game was developed for consoles.

Also the game is graphically intensive, even on PCs. My few years old PC which hasn't had any trouble recent games on high had to go down to medium for TW2. Those buffer areas between zones were needed, even on PCs.
This isn't Two Worlds 2, it's the Witcher 2 (Just being a dink... but it bugs me in the same way GoW is sometimes God of War sometimes Gears of War)

Anyway, have you played it? The mouse camera speed is really fast, I turned my mouse sensitivity way down and it's still very sensitive, which has the problem where just slightly moving your mouse - or if the enemy moves - it changes your target. It would have been so much better to simply use the movement keys to select the target, which is how they did it for gamepads.

As for graphics, it really isn't that demanding until you enable Ubersampling. With everything except that maxed out (including Very High texture size) I go over 100 FPS. A lot of the games I play aren't over 50fps maxed, Dragon Age 2 is close to 60 maxed (although I'd say Witcher 2 looks a lot better!). Anyway, it looks great but not many PC games I play have those loading zones, in fact the only one that comes to mind is Deep Space 2... a console game (the elevators are the loading zones). But anyway, the only purpose of the loading zones is to load different stuff into your RAM and VRAM, which can be done dynamically on PC when you have 1gb video cards and 8 gigs of system RAM compared to 512mb of shared RAM on consoles.

...but that's kind of beside the point, because I don't really mind it except for the slight annoyance. It's also annoying that all doors are some kind of threshold, you can't just walk normally through a door, even if it's open you lose control of Geralt while he goes through a doorway. It's wierd. And when multiple ppl are going through a door they all have to wait for it to close, then open and go through. Again that's not really a normal thing and not necessary when you can load more stuff up to stream into the game as needed. But when you don't have enough memory these things make a lot of difference.
 

Danceofmasks

New member
Jul 16, 2010
1,512
0
0
Wolfram01 said:
Anyway, have you played it? The mouse camera speed is really fast, I turned my mouse sensitivity way down and it's still very sensitive, which has the problem where just slightly moving your mouse - or if the enemy moves - it changes your target.
I think that there is your problem.
I had to increase the mouse sensitivity significantly to get it to a level I'm comfortable with ...

Which might explain why I have no issues with the targeting.
 

Wolfram23

New member
Mar 23, 2004
4,095
0
0
Iron Lightning said:
Sounds like it's optimized for a gamepad in the same way that flight sims are optimized for a joystick. Since it doesn't appear to be coming to consoles at any time in the near future, I seriously doubt that it was designed with them in mind.

It's a rather curious control optimization, however.
Yeah, that's a decent analogy. It is, however, coming to Xbox 360 by the end of the year. There's no way they could do that if it was made the way the first one was, much like Crysis 2 had to get scaled back in terms of level design compared to the original (yet still looks very nice). So yes, they most definitely built the game with consoles in mind.
 

Jasper Jeffs

New member
Nov 22, 2009
1,456
0
0
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-the-witcher/714680

18 seconds in :
"A lot of people have been playing the Witcher 2 PC version on a gamepad because of the preference."

47 seconds in:
"Our target was in the PC always since the beginning. We were focused on creating the game for the PC but we were thinking about all of the players."
 

Wolfram23

New member
Mar 23, 2004
4,095
0
0
Danceofmasks said:
Wolfram01 said:
Anyway, have you played it? The mouse camera speed is really fast, I turned my mouse sensitivity way down and it's still very sensitive, which has the problem where just slightly moving your mouse - or if the enemy moves - it changes your target.
I think that there is your problem.
I had to increase the mouse sensitivity significantly to get it to a level I'm comfortable with ...

Which might explain why I have no issues with the targeting.
I suppose if you have much lower sensitivity it would be easier, but then menu navigation with the mouse is too slow for my liking. Anyway I did get pretty decent at it with the mouse, I only just plugged the controller in for about 3 or 4 hours last night, but I was totally blown away. You should try it and see what you think if you have an Xbox or PS3 controller.

Jasper Jeffs said:
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-the-witcher/714680

18 seconds in :
"A lot of people have been playing the Witcher 2 PC version on a gamepad because of the preference."

47 seconds in:
"Our target was in the PC always since the beginning. We were focused on creating the game for the PC but we were thinking about all of the players."
I'm not sure what you're getting at? But to me that seems to support what I'm saying. Sure he says it's from preference to use gamepad, but that's so very vague. I now prefer to use gamepad to play the game, but it's not because I like gamepads more than M+K, it's because the game handles so much better with one. And that second part kind of indicates that they definitely kept consoles in mind during development, hence loading zones and the like.
 

Iron Lightning

Lightweight Extreme
Oct 19, 2009
1,237
0
0
Wolfram01 said:
Iron Lightning said:
Sounds like it's optimized for a gamepad in the same way that flight sims are optimized for a joystick. Since it doesn't appear to be coming to consoles at any time in the near future, I seriously doubt that it was designed with them in mind.

It's a rather curious control optimization, however.
Yeah, that's a decent analogy. It is, however, coming to Xbox 360 by the end of the year. There's no way they could do that if it was made the way the first one was, much like Crysis 2 had to get scaled back in terms of level design compared to the original (yet still looks very nice). So yes, they most definitely built the game with consoles in mind.
Well, that's still 6 months away. Most games that plan on having a multiplatform release generally release all versions of the game in question at once so they can cash in on hype. If they planned on making it mostly a console thang then they were very stupid.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
13,769
5
43
Well, yeah. Surely this doesn't come as a surprise.

The four-button QTE fistfights and mash-attack-button sequences were kind of a giveaway.
 

Danceofmasks

New member
Jul 16, 2010
1,512
0
0
Wolfram01 said:
I suppose if you have much lower sensitivity it would be easier, but then menu navigation with the mouse is too slow for my liking. Anyway I did get pretty decent at it with the mouse, I only just plugged the controller in for about 3 or 4 hours last night, but I was totally blown away. You should try it and see what you think if you have an Xbox or PS3 controller.
Umm, I have a much HIGHER sensitivity than the default.
You should watch my video and see just how high my sensitivity is ... as well as the kind of gameplay I have being impossible with a controller.

Meaning, the ceiling of competence is higher with kb/mouse.

I'm not saying the controller is bad for this game, it plays fine.
But fine is not good enough if you're a better player than average.

Edit:
The reason I say higher sensitivity is easier ... it's an FPS thing.
Think of it in that manner: using the mouse to keep your target in the center of the screen.
 

Wolfram23

New member
Mar 23, 2004
4,095
0
0
Danceofmasks said:
Wolfram01 said:
I suppose if you have much lower sensitivity it would be easier, but then menu navigation with the mouse is too slow for my liking. Anyway I did get pretty decent at it with the mouse, I only just plugged the controller in for about 3 or 4 hours last night, but I was totally blown away. You should try it and see what you think if you have an Xbox or PS3 controller.
Umm, I have a much HIGHER sensitivity than the default.
You should watch my video and see just how high my sensitivity is ... as well as the kind of gameplay I have being impossible with a controller.

Meaning, the ceiling of competence is higher with kb/mouse.

I'm not saying the controller is bad for this game, it plays fine.
But fine is not good enough if you're a better player than average.
That literally doesn't make sense. At least not in this game.
 

Togs

New member
Dec 8, 2010
1,468
0
0
Wolfram01 said:
Togs said:
1. Is the game great?
2. Did it come out 1st on PC?
3. Can you use a gamepad on PC?

Your arguement is invalid.
...what? 1) Doesn't matter in the least. 2) Doesn't matter in the least. 3) Yes, which is obviously how I discovered that the gamepad controls are significantly better... duh. That's my point.
Ok that was a roundabout way of making my point, so Ill be more blatant- why does it matter that the game works better on a pad? You can still use a game pad on your pc, the game is still high quality, how on earth does its design choices effect you? Answer= It doesnt.

In fact the only reason I can think of to complain is if we have another self superior PC gamer.
 

Danceofmasks

New member
Jul 16, 2010
1,512
0
0
Wolfram01 said:
Danceofmasks said:
Wolfram01 said:
I suppose if you have much lower sensitivity it would be easier, but then menu navigation with the mouse is too slow for my liking. Anyway I did get pretty decent at it with the mouse, I only just plugged the controller in for about 3 or 4 hours last night, but I was totally blown away. You should try it and see what you think if you have an Xbox or PS3 controller.
Umm, I have a much HIGHER sensitivity than the default.
You should watch my video and see just how high my sensitivity is ... as well as the kind of gameplay I have being impossible with a controller.

Meaning, the ceiling of competence is higher with kb/mouse.

I'm not saying the controller is bad for this game, it plays fine.
But fine is not good enough if you're a better player than average.
That literally doesn't make sense.
What do you mean it doesn't make sense?
Your target is in the middle of the screen. If it moves, you move the screen.

You can't do that well enough if your target moves faster than your mouse can.
 

Ushiromiya Battler

Oddly satisfied
Feb 7, 2010
601
0
0
Wolfram01 said:
Ok so most people who have already played Witcher 2 know a few things. They know that combat is finicky due to the targeting system. It's based around your camera view, which happens to be twitchy, so you often end up accidentally switching targets if you don't lock on.
I guess it's a matter of taste or something, as I've had no problems with this yet....

But what really interests me is what way you went to have a ps3 controller connected and usable on the PC. I've looked around but everything I found was crap.

OT:If you find it easier with a gamepad good for you : )
Doesn't necessarily mean it was developed for a console.
Remember there's a lot of stuff that will be incredibly tedious on consoles.

CAPTCHA: Ustubse Practice... Now why would Ustubse practice? ey?

EDIT: missed a be
 

Wolfram23

New member
Mar 23, 2004
4,095
0
0
Togs said:
Wolfram01 said:
Togs said:
1. Is the game great?
2. Did it come out 1st on PC?
3. Can you use a gamepad on PC?

Your arguement is invalid.
...what? 1) Doesn't matter in the least. 2) Doesn't matter in the least. 3) Yes, which is obviously how I discovered that the gamepad controls are significantly better... duh. That's my point.
Ok that was a roundabout way of making my point, so Ill be more blatant- why does it matter that the game works better on a pad? You can still use a game pad on your pc, the game is still high quality, how on earth does its design choices effect you? Answer= It doesnt.
Ah, I see. My main point is that having sloppy controls does affect me, and it's interesting how optimized the gamepad controls are in comparison to default M+K, which has it's own merits that are not being played to. Not all PC gamers have a console/gamepad, so they're stuck with what I find is inferior controls. There's a few very simple things they could change that could make it smoother. But it's especially annoying that they made some pretty significant changes such as looting, where there's no reason they couldn't do it for regular M+K controls. Design choices and controls are at the core of your gaming experience, how does it not affect you?