Women in games are not systematically oppressed - a vertical slice

[endtherapture]

Your argument is so stupid it deserves the facepalm but nothing else.

Yes, yes, I'm sure we're all positively in stitches that you can refuse to talk to me and post funny pictures. It is the very height of hilarity, no doubt. However, I personally interpret it as a lack of anything to actually say on the topic, prompted by a perhaps deliberate attempt to take my words to an illogical extreme of literalness. My low opinion of your approach probably means nothing to you, of course, but for all it's worth, I am not impressed.

I don't know...because I don't really care about it, but I'm sure that you can find a reviewer who reviews the game based on sexism. Do some research yourself.

You are the one who said such a reviewer exists. I did not. Therefore, it is your burden to prove that the thing you said is true. It is not my burden to prove that for you.

Well it is stupid...you're complaining about things that happened before the game...like that Gordon Freeman shouldn't even be in Half Life because he was more likely to fail his degree than pass it given his low scientific knowledge exhibited in the game. Surely you see your argument is completely based on an arbitrary point. The setting has been designed to evoke medieval Europe, sexism is a part of that, doesn't stop the female characters from being interesting.

No it is not my burden to search the internet for you. Just go on Tumblr and search for GTAV. I'm sure there's a ton of feminist commentary on there.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

I'll make it simple.; there are no sexist video games. The idea that there are is just ridiculous. The only way for a game to be sexist is if it has some way of identifying the gender of the player and discriminates against them based on that (e.g. not letting female players unlock the most powerful items).

 

[wulf3n]

every last woman is a double D wearing skimpy clothing no matter how little sense it makes.

Yep, every last female character... oh wait, except for the main one

Spoiler

If Triss is wearing DD then I'm an LL

 

[visiblenoise]

I'll make it simple.; there are no sexist video games. The idea that there are is just ridiculous. The only way for a game to be sexist is if it has some way of identifying the gender of the player and discriminates against them based on that (e.g. not letting female players unlock the most powerful items).

Totally agree. The level of "sexism" that everyone seems to be arguing about these days is on par with the kind that "causes" little girls to play with barbie dolls and little boys to play with toy cars and death robots.

 

[JimB]

Well it is stupid.

Oh, well, you saying it was stupid once didn't convince me, but since you've said it again and put a "well" at the beginning of the sentence, now I totally agree with you.

You're complaining about things that happened before the game.

Oh, for Christ's sake. No, I am not. I am complaining about where the designers chose to draw their arbitrary lines at what aspects of feudal Europe they would include and what they wouldn't. Humanity as the only species, no magic, and the spread of Catholicism? All of those are part of the image they're trying to evoke, but they didn't choose to add any of that. I assume the creators made those changes because they thought sticking to the real history wouldn't be fun, but what does that say about leaving in a prevalence of rape? That rape is fun to witness and strive against and overcome from the perspective of a man who cannot, by the game's script, ever be a victim of it? Whee, what fun!

The setting has been designed to evoke medieval Europe; sexism is a part of that; doesn't stop the female characters from being interesting.

I didn't say anything about the female characters being interesting, so please quit changing the subject.

No it is not my burden to search the internet for you.

No. We cannot begin from an assumption that whatever bullshit someone says is correct and the audience is the one who has to find proof of it. If that's how it works, then everyone is now obligated to believe me when I say you are a serial killer who has hidden the dismembered bodies of eighteen women throughout your state in secret locations; and it's now your job to prove I told a lie by accounting for every minute of your life so we can be positive you never had the time or opportunity to kill anyone. It doesn't work that way. The person who says, "This is true," is the one who has to prove he's right. Otherwise he's just plain making shit up and he knows that's what he's doing or else he'd have proven himself right already.

 

[JimB]

Every last woman is a double-D wearing skimpy clothing no matter how little sense it makes.

Yep, every last female character... Oh wait, except for the main one: [snipped image]

You may have proven yourself correct on a pedantic issue, but I personally feel you've kind of lost a greater battle by using for reference an image of a woman with her hip cocked and her spine twisted so the viewer can see tit and ass simultaneously, which ass, incidentally, is in leather pants so tight you can make out the shape of every part of each individual cheek and the depth of her butt crack. That image exists only to sell sexuality.

 

[wulf3n]

You may have proven yourself correct on a pedantic issue,

The best kind of correct. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hou0lU8WMgo&t=0m2s]

but I personally feel you've kind of lost a greater battle by using for reference an image of a woman with her hip cocked and her spine twisted so the viewer can see tit and ass simultaneously, which ass, incidentally, is in leather pants so tight you can make out the shape of every part of each individual cheek and the depth of her butt crack. That image exists only to sell sexuality.

If I were trying to argue the Witcher 2 isn't sexualised, yes. That doesn't interest me overly much though, I just like criticizing demonstrably incorrect absolutes.

 

[JimB]

I just like criticizing demonstrably incorrect absolutes.

I think that does the conversation a disservice when you indulge your hobby at the expense of the context of the discussion being picked apart, but by all means.

 

[wulf3n]

I just like criticizing demonstrably incorrect absolutes.

I think that does the conversation a disservice when you indulge your hobby at the expense of the context of the discussion being picked apart, but by all means.

True, it does make me a special kind of arse hole, but in all honesty the conversation has been dead for years. We're all just specters reenacting the same battle over and over, the outcome never changing, until the end of time. Kind of like that one level in Witcher 2

 

[JimB]

True, it does make me a special kind of arse hole, but in all honesty the conversation has been dead for years.

I...

...yeah, I can't honestly argue that point.

 

[Colour Scientist]

I read this thread earlier, and I kind of discounted it because of the capitalised NOT SEXIST (which might remind any UK viewers of BARRY SCOTT of CILIT BANG fame) approach (as well as finding the Witcher 2 NOT SEXIST), but I've come back to it now and, despite being fine before I started reading, I have one of those awful headaches that sort of hang around at the back of your eyeballs.

Please don't ever leave these forums.

 

[Phasmal]

I read this thread earlier, and I kind of discounted it because of the capitalised NOT SEXIST (which might remind any UK viewers of BARRY SCOTT of CILIT BANG fame) approach (as well as finding the Witcher 2 NOT SEXIST), but I've come back to it now and, despite being fine before I started reading, I have one of those awful headaches that sort of hang around at the back of your eyeballs.

Oh, wow. Thanks for that, I'm going to be reading all that in BARRY SCOTT'S voice now.

OT: I'm not even sure what the point of this thread is, it's not like we don't have a million of these threads right now. If you don't think there is a problem with games, then just play your games and leave the discussion about it to those who do, surely?

I dunno, I just commented because the above poster made me laugh. I think I'm going slightly mad with all this stuff about.

 

[JimB]

Would this be better?

Sure, why wouldn't it be? She's standing like a person rather than a mannequin in a Victoria's Secret window.

 

[ElMinotoro]

Tris looks like she could be a DD. Not to get you guys off topic here, but I think you might be surprised at actual cup sizes and the variety of sizes that are labelled under a single cup size.

 

[Netrigan]

Complaining about the current state of the industry is kind of like complaining about microwaved food. At the beginning it's cold, you microwave it for a minute and then the parts on top are hot and the rest is still cold. That doesn't mean the microwave is discriminating the noodles. That means it needs to be stirred around and needs some more time.
The industry is not sexist, but most of the senior staff is male because that's how it used to be.
Women working in the industry is "relatively new", and you don't become senior staff right away.
That is all there is to it.
It just needs time.

It also needs intelligent people being both supportive and critical. All well and good to pat a five year old on the head and hang his picture on the fridge, but an artist is going to need people who are willing to be brutally honest and not just tell him what he wants to hear.

We know there's some problems here and the only way the problems are going to be fixed are for people to keep complaining, because that's how a lot of people know there's a problem. If the air conditioning doesn't work in your office, someone has to complain (and keep complaining) until it gets fixed because the guys in maintenance are just going to assume there's no problem if no one is complaining.

So until the problems in the video game industry are fixed, you should accept that there's going to be people criticizing the industry. Some will do so in a respectful manner just to keep forward pressure on the industry, others will be that asshole that screams at you for not doing your job properly. But until the problem is fixed to everyone's satisfaction, the complaints will keep coming.

 

[endtherapture]

Triss could be a DD but who cares...women exist in all shapes and sizes, you can get a supermodel with A cups and a quantum physicist with E cups...breast size is such a pathetic thing to categorise characters one. Big boobs =/= sexualised and small boobs =/= non sexualised.