World of Tanks Rolling Onto Xbox 360 Next Week

[AuronFtw]

thats my point, the bot cant have total accurate precision to weakspots if so many people can run it. unless it really somehow hijacked the aiming mechanism controls from inside the game, in which case id say hire this man, hes better than your whole team.

You... have never actually seen a bot before, have you? Or even read blogs about people's experience with them? If properly coded, a bot will outperform a player in literally every aspect of play. It can "memorize" where every tank currently spotted is by simply scanning the compass, and base its movements/target priority on that. It can shoot more precisely than any human can possibly shoot (not even requiring entering zoom mode to do it) and if playing a big gun tank like TDs, will easily top damage in the match.

WoW bots very commonly top damage/kills in every battleground they're in, can perform *flawless* raid rotations on raid bosses, and can even quest through entire zones by themselves. So... yes, bots can shoot at a pre-determined point on a tank. It isn't that hard.

I'm not sure how much you've played WoT but the matchmaking is terrible as far as balanced games go. There is skill based MM and just a general balance of tank power weighting. This lead to a ludicrous spread of tanks often enough.

I've got mutliple tier 10s, I've played it enough for my liking. The current 2-up 2-down tier spread is mostly an issue with lack of players. If you remember, it used to be a 3-tier difference, and that was honestly just retarded. But when more players joined the game, they were able to decrease the power gap without negatively affecting queue times. If the player size increases again, they can lower the power gap further to 1-up 1-down tiering without impacting queue times. That will help average PvP balance in pub matches.

That said, none of that matters at all in "real matches" like Clan Wars. Both sides get the same amount of weight points to spend on whatever tanks they wish, and a surprising amount of tier 10s are all viable for it. Some are stronger than others (nobody runs heavies other than t110e5 and t57 if they can avoid it, since they are simply the best at what they do) but it's not like the others are completely outclassed and have no chance. When the game is equal tier vs equal tier, it's fairly balanced at most tiers.

There are a few exceptions, like KV-1S shitting on everything at its tier without trying, but on the whole the game is balanced. And that's why splitting the communities is a good idea. Imagine trying to fight a pack of KV-1S all playing kb/m and you're on a controller. You'd just lose even faster.

 

[Strazdas]

I'm not sure how much you've played WoT but the matchmaking is terrible as far as balanced games go. There is skill based MM and just a general balance of tank power weighting. This lead to a ludicrous spread of tanks often enough.

There is no skill based MM and never will be. They were very clear on this to the point of banning people who suggested skill based MM after they demanded for it for the millionth time.
MM is based SOLELY on assigned tank weight which is numbers we dont know and is subject to change. there is a table of where you tarnk can get up but how much exactly it makes up in your team is unknown.
There is no lucdicrous spread of tanks. you CAN take down 2 tiers higher tank if you know how to play. the only exception to this is scouts, but they are supposed to run around in much higher tier battles.

The only two times this system breaks is if a person deliberately takes a significantly lower tank tier in a platoon or if there are so few people playing that MM picks all avaialble palyers instead of searching for a match for 10 minutes (some people claim that happens in the morning, Wargaming confirmed this occurs, i personally never saw it).

You... have never actually seen a bot before, have you? Or even read blogs about people's experience with them? If properly coded, a bot will outperform a player in literally every aspect of play. It can "memorize" where every tank currently spotted is by simply scanning the compass, and base its movements/target priority on that. It can shoot more precisely than any human can possibly shoot (not even requiring entering zoom mode to do it) and if playing a big gun tank like TDs, will easily top damage in the match.

WoW bots very commonly top damage/kills in every battleground they're in, can perform *flawless* raid rotations on raid bosses, and can even quest through entire zones by themselves. So... yes, bots can shoot at a pre-determined point on a tank. It isn't that hard.

i have coded for a bot (different game) some time ago and trust me i know how bots work. the problem with your "ideal player bot" is that it assumes the bot can read everything that happens and interpret it correctly. if somone managed to read all of that in games memory without knowing the source of the game - like i said hire him for hes a genius. what is much more likely is that it treats basic info on the screen and mostly go by OCRing the screen in attemts to decode what is happening. this means that it either has to do that with a delay or needs massive resources. minimap scan is easy, much harder to make the tank drive there. aiming at another player is not hard, aiming at precise weakspots however requires the bot to know where those are, always, no matter the angle or position of tank. this is where i see a problem for bot finding the poart it needs to shoot at, especially at long distances where the pixels litteraly merge due to screen resolution. Though long distance it probably just shoots at the center like everyone else.

WOW is an entirely different thing, because WOW source is leaked and there are private servers, making it very easy for bot to know exactly whats going on, not to mention that it needs far less precision in wow. this means it can target directly needed enemies/npcs/items instead of having to "aim" for them. question in wow is much easier than precise aiming in WOW from a programming perspective.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I'm not sure how much you've played WoT but the matchmaking is terrible as far as balanced games go. There is skill based MM and just a general balance of tank power weighting. This lead to a ludicrous spread of tanks often enough.

There is no skill based MM and never will be. They were very clear on this to the point of banning people who suggested skill based MM after they demanded for it for the millionth time.
MM is based SOLELY on assigned tank weight which is numbers we dont know and is subject to change. there is a table of where you tarnk can get up but how much exactly it makes up in your team is unknown.
There is no lucdicrous spread of tanks. you CAN take down 2 tiers higher tank if you know how to play. the only exception to this is scouts, but they are supposed to run around in much higher tier battles.

The only two times this system breaks is if a person deliberately takes a significantly lower tank tier in a platoon or if there are so few people playing that MM picks all avaialble palyers instead of searching for a match for 10 minutes (some people claim that happens in the morning, Wargaming confirmed this occurs, i personally never saw it).

There are plenty of times and examples of when MM just craps and dies at multiple tiers. High tiers used to be absolute arty parties and I've been in more than a few games in my time in lower tiers with +5 arty per side. I've also had more than few times at peak hours gotten into games where there are 1 or 2 tier 7 tank per team and the rest tier 5. Now personally, I've only had this happen with high tier heavies or tds and the rest of teams saturated with mediums.

I also never said they would implement a skill based MM and weighting tanks solely based on an arbitrary number not taking into account tank power(aside from specific cases) does lead to imbalanced matches.

On tier spread I've had many games where the tier spread is heavily skewed to the high end on 1 team. Also saying you can take down a tank 2 tier plus and actually doing it are 2 completely different things which most of the player base is not capable of doing to any regular degree. In normal game scenarios a full health tier 7 is highly unlikely to lose to a full health tier 6 or 5 ignoring scouts. It is completely disingenuous to say the tier 2 and 3 and original MM have not gotten whacky matches on a semi regular basis. So yes while I will say the majority of games are normally, fairly spread and balanced well, there is still a not insignificant chunk of badly spread games.

I'm not sure how much you've played WoT but the matchmaking is terrible as far as balanced games go. There is skill based MM and just a general balance of tank power weighting. This lead to a ludicrous spread of tanks often enough.

I've got mutliple tier 10s, I've played it enough for my liking. The current 2-up 2-down tier spread is mostly an issue with lack of players. If you remember, it used to be a 3-tier difference, and that was honestly just retarded. But when more players joined the game, they were able to decrease the power gap without negatively affecting queue times. If the player size increases again, they can lower the power gap further to 1-up 1-down tiering without impacting queue times. That will help average PvP balance in pub matches.

That said, none of that matters at all in "real matches" like Clan Wars. Both sides get the same amount of weight points to spend on whatever tanks they wish, and a surprising amount of tier 10s are all viable for it. Some are stronger than others (nobody runs heavies other than t110e5 and t57 if they can avoid it, since they are simply the best at what they do) but it's not like the others are completely outclassed and have no chance. When the game is equal tier vs equal tier, it's fairly balanced at most tiers.

There are a few exceptions, like KV-1S shitting on everything at its tier without trying, but on the whole the game is balanced. And that's why splitting the communities is a good idea. Imagine trying to fight a pack of KV-1S all playing kb/m and you're on a controller. You'd just lose even faster.

First off I'm gald you stuck with the game to get tier tens and have enjoyed the game but I think we both know getting to tier ten doesn't mean you know how to play the game aside from WASD to move and left click to fire.

Without repeating myself too much on MM, I've had plenty of dumb games where the teams are highly skewed tier wise and tank wise even with the +/- 2 spread. Personally, I had no problem with the 3 spread the only spread that was dumb was the original MM. Stuff like not taking tier into account when doing MM does end up with awkward unbalanced teams due to only going by tank weighting. As in a tier 7 heavy is worth as much as a tier 8 medium. This does not always work out.

Now if you want to talk overpowered we can talk like Tier 6 KV-3 and tier 5 KV 1 with King derp among other things. The KV 1S just does not compared in terms of OP. It has several highly exploitable weaknesses if it has no back up with the only thing really going for it that makes it even considerable as OP is the alpha damage. The alpha damage it has is overwhelming at that tier and the gun should probably be replaced with one with slightly lower alpha. So I'd say it is a bit over gunned(reload is mediocre and accuracy is relatively ass) but it is far from OP. So aside from Dat Alpha I don't see it. We can talk about OP til the KV2 with the dead loader tries to get that next shell in but it would be pointless. So that's all I have to say that.

Also while there are certainly more situations in WoT where a KB+M would be better than a controller knife range vs a KV 1S is not one of them. You know having comparably glass hull to other heavies at its tier.

Also as an aside for reference yes I have enjoyed the true oddity of MM which is the 6v6 games that happen when the server pop is low. These are true outliers of the MM.

 

[Strazdas]

There are plenty of times and examples of when MM just craps and dies at multiple tiers. High tiers used to be absolute arty parties and I've been in more than a few games in my time in lower tiers with +5 arty per side. I've also had more than few times at peak hours gotten into games where there are 1 or 2 tier 7 tank per team and the rest tier 5. Now personally, I've only had this happen with high tier heavies or tds and the rest of teams saturated with mediums.

I also never said they would implement a skill based MM and weighting tanks solely based on an arbitrary number not taking into account tank power(aside from specific cases) does lead to imbalanced matches.

On tier spread I've had many games where the tier spread is heavily skewed to the high end on 1 team. Also saying you can take down a tank 2 tier plus and actually doing it are 2 completely different things which most of the player base is not capable of doing to any regular degree. In normal game scenarios a full health tier 7 is highly unlikely to lose to a full health tier 6 or 5 ignoring scouts. It is completely disingenuous to say the tier 2 and 3 and original MM have not gotten whacky matches on a semi regular basis. So yes while I will say the majority of games are normally, fairly spread and balanced well, there is still a not insignificant chunk of badly spread games.

Arty parties were created by broken economy when they made artilery the only profitable high tier tank (seriously, i shoot 6 tanks, rake in 4k damage and still end up at a loss because my repairs cost THAT much? fuck that!). Now that they turned artilery from "knowing your position and knowing enemy actions" into "shooting at full aim on a sitting target and it may hit 1 out of 3 times" there are less of those, but TDs picked up as they are no longer raped by artillery that was slaughtered.
The optimal amount of artillery according to WG logic is 3 artillery per side (artilelry is one of 5 types of tanks, 15/5=3). now we have less than that, in fact i get more battles with no artillery than with.

2 tier difference is workable if you know not to rush/suicide. heck, you got the advantage of many mediums over few heavies/TDs, you can easily suround that one 2 tier higher heavy and eat him between reloads. but yeah, teamwork on a random match is not found.

you said, and i quote "There is skill based MM and just a general balance of tank power weighting". You may have mistyped that, and if thats so then i can understand the confusion, but you definatelly said there is skill based MM.

over 70% of the player base has an EFF bellow 900. Of course majority of players are not capable of taknig down tanks 2 tiers higher. you are however (hopefully), and as such you could take down enemy 2 tier higher while your 2 tier higher tank will then maul over the noobs. Your personal skill is your advantage. use it wisely. Oh and dont underestimate low tiers. I used a tier 6 medium to kill IS3 headon simply because my reload time was so fast even doing my 120 damage per shot i outDPS him. the tank i was drivign was ShermanJumbo. Of course this ended up with me very low on health, but there was no time for better fighting model due to being surounded thanks to incompetent teammates, but im sure you have been in similar situation. low tier tanks should not go first and die, but they definatelly can hold their own.

P.S. if you doubt my game or anything you can check my account, same name as here, Strazdas. im on EU server. And yes i dont play very often.

KV 1 with King derp among other things

but that gun was pushed to tier 6 with KV2 hasnt it (i may remember wrongly)

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

There are plenty of times and examples of when MM just craps and dies at multiple tiers. High tiers used to be absolute arty parties and I've been in more than a few games in my time in lower tiers with +5 arty per side. I've also had more than few times at peak hours gotten into games where there are 1 or 2 tier 7 tank per team and the rest tier 5. Now personally, I've only had this happen with high tier heavies or tds and the rest of teams saturated with mediums.

I also never said they would implement a skill based MM and weighting tanks solely based on an arbitrary number not taking into account tank power(aside from specific cases) does lead to imbalanced matches.

On tier spread I've had many games where the tier spread is heavily skewed to the high end on 1 team. Also saying you can take down a tank 2 tier plus and actually doing it are 2 completely different things which most of the player base is not capable of doing to any regular degree. In normal game scenarios a full health tier 7 is highly unlikely to lose to a full health tier 6 or 5 ignoring scouts. It is completely disingenuous to say the tier 2 and 3 and original MM have not gotten whacky matches on a semi regular basis. So yes while I will say the majority of games are normally, fairly spread and balanced well, there is still a not insignificant chunk of badly spread games.

Arty parties were created by broken economy when they made artilery the only profitable high tier tank (seriously, i shoot 6 tanks, rake in 4k damage and still end up at a loss because my repairs cost THAT much? fuck that!). Now that they turned artilery from "knowing your position and knowing enemy actions" into "shooting at full aim on a sitting target and it may hit 1 out of 3 times" there are less of those, but TDs picked up as they are no longer raped by artillery that was slaughtered.
The optimal amount of artillery according to WG logic is 3 artillery per side (artilelry is one of 5 types of tanks, 15/5=3). now we have less than that, in fact i get more battles with no artillery than with.

2 tier difference is workable if you know not to rush/suicide. heck, you got the advantage of many mediums over few heavies/TDs, you can easily suround that one 2 tier higher heavy and eat him between reloads. but yeah, teamwork on a random match is not found.

you said, and i quote "There is skill based MM and just a general balance of tank power weighting". You may have mistyped that, and if thats so then i can understand the confusion, but you definatelly said there is skill based MM.

over 70% of the player base has an EFF bellow 900. Of course majority of players are not capable of taknig down tanks 2 tiers higher. you are however (hopefully), and as such you could take down enemy 2 tier higher while your 2 tier higher tank will then maul over the noobs. Your personal skill is your advantage. use it wisely. Oh and dont underestimate low tiers. I used a tier 6 medium to kill IS3 headon simply because my reload time was so fast even doing my 120 damage per shot i outDPS him. the tank i was drivign was ShermanJumbo. Of course this ended up with me very low on health, but there was no time for better fighting model due to being surounded thanks to incompetent teammates, but im sure you have been in similar situation. low tier tanks should not go first and die, but they definatelly can hold their own.

P.S. if you doubt my game or anything you can check my account, same name as here, Strazdas. im on EU server. And yes i dont play very often.

KV 1 with King derp among other things

but that gun was pushed to tier 6 with KV2 hasnt it (i may remember wrongly)

Just to start off if I said there was I'm sorry that was a typing error I know there is no and never will be skill based MM. As for arties parties I'm mentioning them as MM not working now you can say that it is due to an imbalance of players and to a degree it was but it was still quite bad when did it happen and it happened far too often. As for the Derp gun yes it was but at the time when there was arguably a russian bias in tank power it was on a tier 5 KV 1.

Yes there are situations where lower tiers can beat high tiers. I've had, seen and had it done to me but it is not that often or reliable.