3D printers shouldn't be commercially available when people can print guns. Hospitals should have them and cities should have a public buildings that you can use 3D printers in.
World's First 3D Printer Rifle Goes Bang, Barrel Breaks
- Thread starter Karloff
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I just had a thought: fuck the guns, lets 3d print out swords and crossbows!already in use said:
you guys do know that someone in america is already printing nearly fully function assault rifles?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DconsfGsXyA
that is a real thing, and it's pretty terrifying to think that if 3D printers become commonplace, anyone and everyone will be able to make their own guns for free.
also, i know that the above is the primary concern for most people, but something no one seems to be considering is the intense rise in suicides that this kind of access to guns would create.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DconsfGsXyA
that is a real thing, and it's pretty terrifying to think that if 3D printers become commonplace, anyone and everyone will be able to make their own guns for free.
also, i know that the above is the primary concern for most people, but something no one seems to be considering is the intense rise in suicides that this kind of access to guns would create.
Short answer: Not in the foreseeable future simply due to the strength of materials.SonOfVoorhees said:
Long answer: While plastics are able to be printed and can even handle the pressure and shock of a bullet being fired, the main issue with a fully automatic weapon is the heat buildup. Even if you get all the moving parts required for a fully or even semi auto weapon perfected it won't take long for those parts to be melted or otherwise deformed by it's use. There are printer prototypes that can utilize mixtures of metal powder and various binding agents but they require a great deal of processing after being printed in order to gain the strength one would commonly expect from metal parts, and even then they trade strength for brittleness and would not be able to withstand much repeated use if they don't shatter after the first shot.
Also to keep in mind is accuracy. A 3d printer is great for making certain shapes, however the helix is not one of them, not by a long shot. The rifling that would be needed to impart the necessary rotation into the bullet to maintain even a meager amount of accuracy would need to be a secondary process, requiring both tools and skills that not everyone possesses. Even if one could do that the aforementioned issues with melting or brittleness would make such efforts short lived at best.
As it stands from now into the foreseeable future this technology will be used to make single shot guns that are only reliable at ranges where you could just as easily threaten or kill with another weapon, it also had the potential to either not work at all or catastrophically self destruct in your hands. Anyone intending to use a 3D printer to threaten someone is better off making a non functional model gun while anyone intending to make a weapon with the intent to kill is better off making a shiv.
Excellent comment. Thanks. I guess, for now, its better to use the 3d printer itself as a weapon and throw it at people than use it to make a gun.Cpu46 said:
Never fear, you need a 3d printer first. These things are not cheap or easy to find (outside of commercial application) so it isn't something we are likely to have to worry about. To top that off, with the lack of reliability and the chance it will blow up in your face, most people would rather spend the $100 on a saturday night special.AntiChri5 said:
you can get a 3d printer that prints this stuff well for $500-$1000. Also people saying "Ban teh 3d printers" calm your tits, there are easier ways to make better guns. Following your line of logic, we must ban hand tools, tubing and the internet because they can be used to make guns. This technology really comes into it's own for small, replacement parts, it's not ideal for guns. I you make guns, your better off using other manufacturing methods and materials to get a serviceable firearm. Not to mention having a 3d printer is very convenient, you can make things you never could otherwise, it represents a huge leap forward in decentralised manufacturing, we shouldn't stunt progress just to appease the rabidly anti-gun.
Wow, so an expert used an extremely expensive and rare piece of equipment to make a low quality and ineffective device that failed completely?
My GOD! THE HORROR!
Anybody here ever heard of a Zip gun? You can make the thing out of about two pieces of pipe and a shotgun shell. Something that actually works and won't blow off your hands. We've been able to build those things with a minimum of effort and a bare minimum of understanding of firearms. But of course, 'bare minimum' is lightyears beyond the normal level of education most people have on firearms.
But then the gist of it all is that 'a criminal could do something illegal' with it.
Hmm...we need to ban everything then.
My GOD! THE HORROR!
Anybody here ever heard of a Zip gun? You can make the thing out of about two pieces of pipe and a shotgun shell. Something that actually works and won't blow off your hands. We've been able to build those things with a minimum of effort and a bare minimum of understanding of firearms. But of course, 'bare minimum' is lightyears beyond the normal level of education most people have on firearms.
But then the gist of it all is that 'a criminal could do something illegal' with it.
Hmm...we need to ban everything then.
I don't understand the hysteria over these 3d printer firearms. I can guarantee you that someone could create a far more reliable and deadly firearm with metal scrap, springs and some basic machining tools, all of which are far cheaper/readily available than these 3d printers and associated materials. Perfectly useable copies of the Sten sub-machinegun were built by anti-Nazi partisans in basements all over occupied Europe. The Sten was designed using parts commonly found in hardware stores and scrap yards.
Get over your irrational fear of firearms and stop bitching about a rather interesting project.
-Fellow CanadianGunNut
Get over your irrational fear of firearms and stop bitching about a rather interesting project.
-Fellow CanadianGunNut
I don't know what you're talkin' about, Shan. There is literally no difference between printing a functional gun and building your own.Shanahanapp said:Yes but it's a lot easier to print a plastic gun off the internet.Chinchama said:I don't understand why people are freaking about a plastic gun...its just the thought or the look is scary I guess. Its not like people aren't already building their own guns at home from left over scraps. For example..
That.... gun... doesn't look confusing at all to build. I see some wood, and uh... I'm gonna say bullets... and some other stuff. See? I cracked it. Didn't even need schematics. I think I'll head down Sam's Club and buy some.... is that tape?
Not that y'all asked, but 3-D printing of any quality--that doesn't look like congealed vermicelli --is very expensive. The machines have to be RENTED, and at considerable cost, from companies that have real live liability and lawyers watching their backs. If a plastic rifle made it into a crime, the traceability would be through the roof. And no, it isn't likely to get any cheaper--the chemical process is so complex that it probably won't drop anytime soon.
I'd also like to point out, as an advocate of gun safety, that this is the antithesis of a safe gun: likely to misfire over twelve tries, a splitting barrel, and so on speak of something just as likely to burst in the owner's hands. Nor is it likely to hit its mark--thermoset plastic like this is immune to conventional machining techniques, so "rifling" of any sort is prohibitively difficult.
We're more likely to see any other kind of Saturday Night Special do the dirty deeds, than some epoxy-glued, thermo-set "prototype".
I'd also like to point out, as an advocate of gun safety, that this is the antithesis of a safe gun: likely to misfire over twelve tries, a splitting barrel, and so on speak of something just as likely to burst in the owner's hands. Nor is it likely to hit its mark--thermoset plastic like this is immune to conventional machining techniques, so "rifling" of any sort is prohibitively difficult.
We're more likely to see any other kind of Saturday Night Special do the dirty deeds, than some epoxy-glued, thermo-set "prototype".
off topic: I like your avatar : DShanahanapp said:
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On topic: whether it be this guy or someone else, given power people abuse them. Knowledge is power and as intelligent as people are there will be someone who comes up with these designs and no matter what as technology progress these will become more readily available. Aside from censorship or something else drastic I don't think there is anything you can stop this. It's kind of scary to think of how available these things could be and how devastating they could be with fully polished designs, but hopefully our ability to solve problems also progress to the point where we can find a solution to any problems that might arise from this.
It's also really late so I have no clue if anything i'm saying makes sense :3
No, this is important. We needed to see the full capabilities of one of these 3D printers before deciding what to do about them. Simply arresting him because he took the step nobody else would is laughable at best, tyrannical at worst.Shanahanapp said:
Surprised that nobody has mentioned this, but by definition this gun isn't a rifle -- it even says in the body of the text, it's smoothbore, which means there's no rifling. That means that even if the guy making this can iron out the problems with the thing falling apart on him, as it stands it's not going to be accurate at any kind of range. Granted, we're talking about what's basically version 0.5 of the Star Trek replicators here, it'll get better and have more potential abuses with time.
Lead is not, nor likely ever will be, illegal. Gunpowder is makeable, not necessarily up to Winchester quality at home but at least stable, usable powder. All that leaves is casings and primer. Casings are reusable, and somebody's gonna come up with ways to make primer. That, or we'll start seeing muzzle-loader pepperbox pistols being printed, so that homemade old-style primers can be used.Ed130 said:
Where there's a will, there's a way. Expect the next volume of the Anarchist's Cookbook to fly off the shelves the moment anything usable in making guns is banned and confiscated, or even licensed. The solution is not so simple. It also comes down to the age-old question I shall not weigh in on: Does universal gun ownership deter gun use best, or does restriction? If guns are a deterrent, more guns + more training equals a better deterrent. You can build a car, but you need a license to drive it. You likely won't get checked unless you violate the law, but only thieves and criminals and DUIs take that risk on purpose. On the other hand, if "guns kill people," we have the potential of having a lot of dangerous people saving up for 3d printers.
A friend of mine mentioned something, and I post it for thoughts: in China (and maybe other countries) a term of military service is mandatory, just like jury duty is in the US. While he didn't recommend this for the US, he did mention, why can't countries where guns are legal and personal defense is expected require mandatory training in basic weaponry? Safety training, proper-use training, the type of thing taught at Gunsite for those who know what that is or are willing to look it up. Just a question, and if anyone's willing to weigh in, I'd love the PMs.
This, and if he should be arrested, the Slingshot Guy [http://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave] should be arrested. He makes some crazy, verifiably dangerous stuff. Ridiculously AWESOME stuff, but what does a bureaucrat care about awesome?Brian Tams said:
I think that law enforcement realise better than anyone that right now there are myriad quicker, easier ways to kill people, and that this particular misuse of a human's innate ability to make tools is 1) extraordinarily expensive and 2) obviously dangerous to the user. So the discussion of printable firearms must be an exercise of future-proofing, understanding the capacities of an emerging technology and gauging it's impact. What seems clear to me is that while it may now be increasingly *possible*, it's still plainly impractical.
Thanks!Bruenin said:
I know it can't really be stopped but I hope governments get on this quickly and start setting barriers to access. I feel like having free guns available to everyone like some people want to do is insanely dangerous.
Nah, I was exaggerating when I said arrest him, but I do find this situation worrying. I find it bizarre that there are still people who believe that everyone should have guns as easily as possible.Brian Tams said: