Would Americans play a game in which the United States is the bad guy?

[Li Mu]

Having just seen an article on the front page for the game 'All Walls Must Fall', I read the description and thought, "Ugh, yet another 'Murkia & Friends vs Soviet Nazis' game."

Game after game after game, we are presented with the same pattern. America and sometimes Britain are the good guys. Russia, Nazi Germany, Future Zombie Nazi Germany or vague Arab nation are the evil bad guys.

Even games developed by non-US devs stick to this formula. Occasionally we might see China as the naughty country, but do we ever see the United States as a villain? Do we ever see Britain or non-German Europe as the enemy?

One could even see this as a subtle propgation of the 'Us vs Them' idea. Propaganda for the young, to instill the idea that we are the good guys and the rest of the world (especially people with dark skin) are evil.

Now, I don't want to get too much into racial politics in games (you guys can get into that if you want).
What I want to know is whether anyone from one of the 'good guy' countries buy a game if you knew that you were the villains?
I'm a Brit and I would love to play a game were we had to stop the evil American war machine from invading Canada. Or perhaps play as the French, combatting British/Danish aggression as they invade Paris in an attempt to steal the French supply of croissants.

But perhaps I'm in the minority here. Perhaps devs are too scared to portray the United States or it's BFFs as bad guys because the 'Western' gaming public couldn't stomach it. Would any of you Americans play a game in which you are the evil ones and need to be stopped?

Also, to any German or Russian gamers here. Do you get tired of your country always being portayed as evil in games?

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Do we ever see Britain or non-German Europe as the enemy?

While I can't think of any examples of the UK as a nation being the villain, it is quite common for a British character in games (and media in general) to be evil, particularly those that speak with a posh, upper class British accent. Bonus points if they start out allies, but end up betraying you along the way.

Not really sure why that is. Perhaps it is some holdover resentment from the American Revolutionary War or British colonial times that mutated into 'Brits make good villains' over time.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Shouldn't this be a poll?

Anyway, I dunno. Not an American. I would be interested in playing it, as well as eager to make some popcorn for the inevitable shit slinging when it gets announced.

do we ever see the United States as a villain?

Spec Ops: The Line? Kinda.

 

[The Enquirer]

While I can't think of any examples of the UK as a nation being the villain, it is quite common for a British character in games (and media in general) to be evil, particularly those that speak with a posh, upper class British accent.

All the Imperial officers in Star Wars?

OT: As an American, yes, I would provided it's done right, but I'll say that regardless of nation because you actually want a good enemy. That really just means a good story. Though the media would have a fucking tantrum for years about that.

But are we talking about America in general as a whole or small, but not insignificant portions of it? Because the latter has been done in a number of games.

 

[Bobular]

I think a game with America as the bad guys would do well in England, most people I talk to over here already think that's the case anyway.

As usually most media will be designed with America in mind I don't think we'd ever see a mainstream game like that but an smaller dev team may give it a go. I can see the guys who did 'Hatred' having a go just for the free controversy advertising.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

While I can't think of any examples of the UK as a nation being the villain, it is quite common for a British character in games (and media in general) to be evil, particularly those that speak with a posh, upper class British accent.

All the Imperial officers in Star Wars?

There's actually a more mundane explanation for that.

Lucas had a lot of British actors and an almost entirely British crew working on A New Hope, possibly because this appealed to his sense of independent filmmaking. This also meant the movie was subject to British union rules, which at the time stated there had to be a minimum number of speaking parts for British actors, so a lot were cast as Imperial officers. A lot of minor rebels parts were actually played by British actors too, but were latter overdubbed by American actors.

The franchise as a whole also has a lot of characters with UK accents on the good side too, like Obi-Wan (Alec Guinness & Ewan McGregor), C-3PO (Antony Daniels), Qui-Gon (Liam Neeson), Mon Mothma (ehm, drawin a blank) and rey (Daisy Ridley). So Star Wars doesn't entirely conform to the Evil Brit trope.

 

[Casual Shinji]

What, you mean like Rockstar's entire body of work?

You say Americans wouldn't want to play a game where America is the bad guy, but if there's one thing Americans seem to love it's to distrust their own government. Hence the whole 'we need guns for when the Man decides to do something I don't like'. And in movies and games it's usually always the American government that's up to shadey shit.

 

[Pseudonym]

Spec ops: the line and at least a part of Modern Warfare 2 did have that. Though just a game where you straight up, out of the gate, play as a vietcong soldier or something comparable through a campaign without too many weird twists, the way you play as an american or brit in a lot of these games. I can't think of any examples.

More relevant to my own situation perhaps. If a game released where you would play as an Indonesian vs Dutch soldiers in the late forties I would probably check it out.

 

[MysticSlayer]

So, when did the United States suddenly become a hive mind?[footnote]Yes, I know, that wasn't what was said. But whenever questions are framed like, asking if a large, diverse group would do something, I always find it humorous to picture the person asking the question shocked to discover that the group actually has people capable of independent thought.[/footnote]

But I guess generally speaking: depends on whether or not the game is good. Heck, it seems quite likely that a good game playing off current political distrust will do quite well by casting America as the bad guy.

One could even see this as a subtle propgation of the 'Us vs Them' idea. Propaganda for the young, to instill the idea that we are the good guys and the rest of the world (especially people with dark skin) are evil.

Within the last approximately 70 years, the United States has been part of WWII, the Cold War, and the War on Terror. During that time, plenty of books and movies have been written about various battles and conflicts spanning these three. Is it any surprise, then, that writers looking for inspiration for their military story look to one or more of these three?

 

[Something Amyss]

I'm pretty sure I already do.

What, you mean like Rockstar's entire body of work?

...rats, someone beat me to it.

'Murrica: the greatest country in the world. You can't trust the elites, the corporations, the feds or the police, and you may need guns to rise up against any or all of them, but we're the best.

 

[Mechamorph]

I think that a good chunk of people from any country will have reservations about playing a game where their own country is the bad guy save for perhaps historical games. I do know that certain Japanese works were criticised as "anti-American" by some viewers since they portrayed the United States, often in the person of their President, in a bad light. "Gate", "Mahouka Kokou no Reittousei" and "Read or Die" come quickly to mind and there were some rumblings about "Black Lagoon" and "Code Geass" too. Overall I would think that a game where the nation of America (rather than American personages) is effectively the villain would not do overly well in that market. Many Americans love their country and patriotism is strong in the US psyche.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

[quote="Casual

 

[maninahat]

There are games were there are American villains (usually running a PMC), and I guess they are used as an erstatz version of stereotypical American jingoism. But that is always offset by the story having an American hero who is trying to stop them, and who represents the "real" America. It isn't just that American's can't be villains, its that they can't exclusively be the villains.

 

[skywolfblue]

Like Bioshock: Infinite?

 

[Recusant]

I'm a Brit and I would love to play a game were we had to stop the evil American war machine from invading Canada.

Well, as a US citizen, let me just say "Hello there! My name is Pot. You must be Lightless Void of Space."

In all seriousness, let's take a rational look at this. Any mass market game pushing the United States as "the bad guy" in a direct sense is going to run into the hard obstacle of who exactly is left to oppose them. Break it down and you could easily have a corrupt US government, corporation, agency, or group of the above, but a unified block of the largest military and economic force on Earth (with the largest nuclear arsenal, no less) is going to inherently be too cartoonish to be taken seriously. Put in the alliances and co-operation required to stop them, and you've got a scenario so ludicrous that the idea of time-traveling agents of the great 23rd-century superpowers (let's say South Africa and Poland) are each popping in to bring down the US, preventing the rise to dominance of the other is far more realistic. The kind of scenario that'd make Michael Bay say "No, that's too outlandish". And if you have an American government or other controlling power that's gone evil and is not monolithically mind-controlling the whole nation, most of the people who are in a position to stop it are going to be Americans, since, hey! they're already nearby. Could you make a game that fit Li Mu's description? Sure. It could be good, or even great. But the biggest chunk of the market wants simple, fast, easy, and imitative of what's already been made. It wouldn't sell.

American-style evil is subtler- hell, 20th-century style evil is subtler- than that. Economic and ideological dominance is so much easier than straight conquest. But this isn't the quiet supervillany it seems. Turn on a classic rock radio station and listen to all the UK citizens (or in some cases, subjects) singing with American accents. They're just imitating what they heard. Their programmers are just imitating what they've played. The average American is no more blindly patriotic than anyone else; they're simply aware of how lucky they are to have been born in the place and time they were, and almost totally unaware of how much luck has to do with it. Would they play a game in which their nation is the bad guys, even if said game is not complex or morally gray? Do Japanese gamers play games about World War 2?

 

[ManutheBloodedge]

German here. Am I tired of the portrayal of my country? Not really, but...
Well, I have no problem with any games where the Nazis are evil, because they were. That is not misrepresentation. I understand why they pop up so much in media (clear and easily identifiable enemy), and I have no problem with historic or Sci-Fi settings with Nazis in them.
What I have a slight problem with is the connotation of Germany and Nazis without context that is sometimes found in media. This normally manifests as german = evil in some subtle or nor so subtle ways. In most Hollywood flicks, the bad guys drive german cars, for example. And while that is not particulary harmful (really, it is rather amusing when you start noticing it), there are worse cases out there. Like the ONE person in the whole Star Wars galaxy I ever heard speaking with a german accent: an evil scientist who delevolped a deadly virus, not out of necessity of war, but because he liked doing so appearantly. In a show marketed towards kids. Developing and using chemical weapons wasn't even a german thing historically, the japanese did that! ...Sorry, pet peeve.
Interestingly, another example comes from the japanese. In the Senran Kagura games, one of the characters has german names for her special move weapons. One of these is called "Wolfsschanze". This was the mountain fortress Hitler and his generals planned most of the second world war in once it had started. I get that this was probably not intentional and they just wanted cool sounding names, but that is another problem in and of itself: Don't use a word if you don't really now what it means. ...Sorry again, pet peeve number two. But yeah, I found this one instance in the game problematic, not the fact that you can dress various "underage" girls down to their underwear.

So in short, saying that the germans were Nazis once is not a big deal. Connotating Germany with Nazis even today, especially without context, rustles my jimmies.

The thing that would make America a great villain in a game is that not only would an invading american army pose an immediate threat, it would be believable. Maybe you remember some of the stunts CoD and Battlefield pulled to make America a dangered and wounded country in their games. None of that here. America invades, boom, you have a mighty big problem, no matter where on the globe you are. America would be another easy villain if it was used, because just like the Nazis, everyone can tell you why America would be dangerous and had to be stopped. They spend more money on their military than some other countries make, so of course they are going to be a threat.

 

[Erttheking]

I bet they don't. They live in a culture that teaches them since an early age that 'Murica is the best country and is never wrong and their soldiers are good guys.

I would play the heck out of such game, tho.

...*Cough*

Spoiler

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/2/2a/Fallout2front.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081229142345

A game where the main villain is the remnants of the US government, who kidnap the population of main character's village, the inhabitants of Vault 13, massacre a settlement of peaceful and intelligent Deathclaws, and want to kill all mutants. (Which to them is every single person that isn't them and people in Vaults) I don't recall anyone having a problem with this.

 

[ManutheBloodedge]

I bet they don't. They live in a culture that teaches them since an early age that 'Murica is the best country and is never wrong and their soldiers are good guys.

I would play the heck out of such game, tho.

...*Cough*

Spoiler

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/2/2a/Fallout2front.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081229142345

A game where the main villain is the remnants of the US government, who kidnap the population of main character's village, the inhabitants of Vault 13, massacre a settlement of peaceful and intelligent Deathclaws, and want to kill all mutants. (Which to them is every single person that isn't them and people in Vaults) I don't recall anyone having a problem with this.

Well, to be fair, national identity looses some relevance after the nuclear apocalypse. I think what the OP meant where games in the style of Call of Duty from the viewpoint of a nation that faces America as an enemy. You know, fullfilling heroics while shooting american soilders en masse and ending the game with defeating Obama in his star-spangled bald-eagle mech. You have to admit, this kind of game is missing. If that is a good or bad thing is something everyone has to decide for themselves...