Would Americans play a game in which the United States is the bad guy?

[Mcgeezaks]

Sure why not. I'd love to play a game where my country (Sweden) are the bad guys, even if it's not possible lol.

 

[irish286]

Except I'm not wrong and history has proven me right. It's not that war must exist, but that is DOES exist. Denying this fact is a rejection of reality and something no one should do. I don't really care who you make heroes of but making villains out of the people who defend you is wrong and you know it.
Also, my definition of fascist must be different than yours because to us you've been electing them for years.

First off, I am obviously not denying that war exists. I never claimed war doesn't exist, so how did you make that assumption?
I said that we must not accept war as something that should keep existing only because it existed.
Guess what? In the past, slavery and legalized racism existed. Imagine if people thought the way you do and assumed those things should keep existing because they have existed in the first place.

Second thing, yes, there's no doubt your definition of fascist is VERY different than mine since you actually believe we've been electing them.
A fascist is a person who thinks only their country matters and who thinks violence is a good way punish anyone who isn't part of their elite group. A fascist is a person who, for example, might want to build a huge wall to keep people who aren't from their country away.

What we have in Europe is what in Italy we call the "right side politicians". They are not the same as fascists, even if on the surface you might think they show some similar ideas.
Trump is, instead, 200% fascist and a very extreme one at it too. I just hope he doesn't really believe half of the things he says, and he says all that stuff only to get reaction votes from certain types of people.

In fact, I will end this reply by saying that this discussion is entirely pointless and we might as well end it here. Keep believing that war is necessary, that a war has good guys and bad guys, and that soldiers are the type of people we should praise as heroes.
Sadly, there's nothing I can do to change the view of someone who doesn't want to change their view. And the same goes for me: I surely don't want to believe war is necessary and there's good guys and bad guys in it, and I certainly don't want to believe we should praise soldiers (instead of scientists and all the people who try to make the world better).

So, feel free to believe what you want.

First off, War will exist whether you or I think it should or not. Just as slavery and racism still exist. Unlike slavery or racism, the only way to defend yourself from war is to take part in war.
Second, "Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"
By the official definition, Europe has been electing fascists for years.
I may not support the guy(I was a Rubio supporter), but Trump meets none of those criteria. If anything he's a Nationalist.

 

[irish286]

Explain how he is going to be fascist. Because I still think you don't know what it is.
Also, that is completely misrepresenting what I said. If you can't be intellectually honest you shouldn't be debating. What I said was "the only way to defend yourself from war is to take part in war." How do you stop a nation that wants to kill you when they won't negotiate or want something so ridiculous that you can't possibly give in? Defending yourself in war isn't evil if you didn't start the fight. You're living the results of refusing to defend yourselves from the refugee thugs you let in. Maybe when they start trying to overthrow governments you'll learn war isn't something you can choose to participate in.

 

[Keagan Neal]

<<Trump is going to be fascist by virtue of putting America's interests above, and likely at the expense of, other nations, and being willing to use force to get his way. Because THAT'S WHAT FASCISM IS.
Example being: He's insisting building a wall between Mexico and America, all for the sake of keeping illegal immigrants out, without regard for Mexican relations, at Mexican cost. Regardless of Mexico's thoughts on it.>>

...Admittedly, I don't think Trump is Fascist, per se, but his angle does seem pointed towards being a bully towards other nations.
It's kind of splitting hairs.

What I said was "the only way to defend yourself from war is to take part in war." How do you stop a nation that wants to kill you when they won't negotiate or want something so ridiculous that you can't possibly give in?

{{Simple. Negotiate. No one is so unreasonable that they won't negotiate at all. Only simple, fictional characters are like that.
While, true, sometimes words alone might not be able stop violence, resorting to violence to stop violence is a tragic choice. Violence is an unacceptable part of our world, and should be avoided at all costs.

By thinking of violence as inevitable, you accept that violence is acceptable, and it's removal; impossible
(IE: A human being consuming the entire sun), as opposed to very, very difficult (wherein winning a Nobel Prize would just be really hard).

Violence should never be acceptable. Ending violence in our lifetime is hellishly improbable, but we can work towards a future where no one will ever consider use of force to get what they want.}}


EDIT: On topic: I'd fine playing a game where America is the bad guy, but then again, I'm generally cool with a lot of things.

 

[irish286]

<<Trump is going to be fascist by virtue of putting America's interests above, and likely at the expense of, other nations, and being willing to use force to get his way. Because THAT'S WHAT FASCISM IS.
Example being: He's insisting building a wall between Mexico and America, all for the sake of keeping illegal immigrants out, without regard for Mexican relations, at Mexican cost. Regardless of Mexico's thoughts on it.>>

...Admittedly, I don't think Trump is Fascist, per se, but his angle does seem pointed towards being a bully towards other nations.
It's kind of splitting hairs.

What I said was "the only way to defend yourself from war is to take part in war." How do you stop a nation that wants to kill you when they won't negotiate or want something so ridiculous that you can't possibly give in?

{{Simple. Negotiate. No one is so unreasonable that they won't negotiate at all. Only simple, fictional characters are like that.
While, true, sometimes words alone might not be able stop violence, resorting to violence to stop violence is a tragic choice. Violence is an unacceptable part of our world, and should be avoided at all costs.

By thinking of violence as inevitable, you accept that violence is acceptable, and it's removal; impossible
(IE: A human being consuming the entire sun), as opposed to very, very difficult (wherein winning a Nobel Prize would just be really hard).


Violence should never be acceptable. Ending violence in our lifetime is hellishly improbable, but we can work towards a future where no one will ever consider use of force to get what they want.}}


EDIT: On topic: I'd fine playing a game where America is the bad guy, but then again, I'm generally cool with a lot of things.

First off what you're describing is nationalism not fascism. Second, Mexico has done nothing to stop the tide of people flooding our border. They lost the right to complain when they started ferrying people from their southern border to ours. Third, just because you negotiate doesn't mean you give them what they want. You're right violence should be avoided but you can't just give people what ever they want if they start threatening you. All that will do is open the door to extortion. By accepting violence as an inevitability you're accepting reality and can then prepare for it. As long as there are different opinions there will always be a potential for violence. Violence should be avoided as much as possible but rejecting it's existence does nothing but make you vulnerable. The world you want to work for is fundamentally impossible.