Would Anyone Like To Explain What The Fuck This Is?!

[Enkidu88]

If it's any consolation something as stupid sounding (and dirty sounding if you say it fast enough) as "Jesus Ween" is never going to catch on.

If you're a pagan you should be more offended at Christmas being usurped by christianity, considering December 25th was used by various pagan religions as a time to throw huge celebrations and festivals.

 

[Treblaine]

Speaking as a Brit who was brought up overseas but often in compounds with other Americans I am so disappointed with how po-faced and niggardly the mainstream Brits have been with Halloween.

I mean the British are supposed to be fun-loving, easy going while the Americans are "supposedly" overly serious and stuck-up.

Yet this Take of the Christian tradition is distinctly Canadian is SUCH FUN! You get to dress up in such wacky costumes, meet and interact with your neighbours in the weirdest of ways. I have such fond memories as a child Trick-or-treating except for my worst one year I had Halloween in Scotland and I went out in costume with my brother and sister,

We were the only ones. The few doors we knocked on people ere utterly bewildered and down right frightened.

But how did the BBC characterise Halloween Trick or Treating when it first appeared in Britain (in the 1980's)? They said it was pure commercialism and compare the act of trick or treating to extortion(!) that should be handled by the police! Seriously, where is the Britain that gave us Monty Python when such a fun and social holiday is viewed with such cynicism and hostility.

Worst is how it is dismissed as an "Americanism" as if there was some how a more suitable British equivalent. There isn't.

It's shit like this which is why I admire America so much, it has a sense of community OTHER THAN all the blokes getting shit-faced down at the pub or being rowdy at a football match.

I love how America with this holiday can capture the macabre and make it family friendly yet still exciting. And I don't mind if some Americans want to bring some Jesus into this holiday, I mean "what would Jesus do"? Of course I'm worried they'd go on some anti-gay agenda or some other Christian fundamentalist bullshit but I'd hope they see the good Christian side of this: how this brings communities together in altruism and includes the next generation, really it includes all ages, to just have a real fun and exciting day.

Why is it Americans seem so much more willing to dress up? I mean cosplay especially.

I was lucky, in most of the places I lived overseas We'd have Halloween and then 5 days later bonfire night...

Remember, Remember
The fifth of NOVEMBER
Gunpowder, treason and PLOT
I cannot find a reason, that this treason, should ever. Be. FORGOT!

Shiiit, I remember the MASSIVE bonfires we had, the fireworks, the "penny for a guy", aw good days.

But it's not quite as good as trick or treating.

 

[tirone231]

The Christians took over every Pagan holiday they could in an effort to covert as many as they could before killing the rest. The majority of them are arrogant in their faith, ignorant of their faith's history, selfish, severely intolerant, and engage in idolatry. Given their history, does this honestly surprise you?

wow, generalization much? Man, sure glad that I'm not a Christian like Martin Luther King Jr, or Thomas Beckett, because they were just assholes, apparently. Hating a religion because of a rushed understanding of its history is also arrogant and selfish

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was Baptist.....


and Thomas Becket was Catholic.



Don't ask me what the difference between a Catholic and a Christan is though, fuck all if I know.

Southern Baptist is a sect of Christianity...as is Catholicism....you can be Christian in many different ways:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

... people in my town would hate love and tolerate the shit out of you.


yea, have you seen an angry severely overweight Baptist go off on a kid because he called her a Christian?


Then again..... This is Texas after all, normally its a great state, but when it comes to Religions.....

No worries, my family is originally from Texas. Those kinds of people are still Christians...they're just also idiots.

 

[Dfskelleton]

What? Since when has Christianity been against Halloween? I'm a Christian, and Halloween is my freaking favorite holiday.
Oh, and Jesusween is a really silly sounding name. Couldn't they have picked a better one? Jesus and Halloween, two perfectly fine names sound really bad when mixed.
Well, these guys can celebrate Jesusween. I can be Christian and attempt to pull off some sort of Lovecraftian horror costume. Hmm, Cthulhu would be nice, but he's a little bit too overused. Yog Sothoth would be pretty fun, but dressing like him would require a lot of un-poppable bubbles... suggestions, anyone?

 

[Jamash]

What? Christians are coveting the holiday of Halloween? The Holy Day of All Hallows Eve, aka Hallowmas, aka All Saints' Day, is going to be associated with Christianity?

Oh no, we have to stop this! Quick, fire up the DeLorean and set the Flux Capacitor to 609 AD.

Great Scott!

 

[masterbazza]

just keep in mind that
'the the voice that shouts the loudest is always right'

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Not gonna stop me from getting drunk and throwing shit at people who drive their cars around the neighborhood.

Seriously, get out and fucking walk. What is the matter with you people? It already is one of the most unhealthy holidays of the year, a little walking couldn't hurt.

 

[tirone231]

The Christians took over every Pagan holiday they could in an effort to covert as many as they could before killing the rest. The majority of them are arrogant in their faith, ignorant of their faith's history, selfish, severely intolerant, and engage in idolatry. Given their history, does this honestly surprise you?

wow, generalization much? Man, sure glad that I'm not a Christian like Martin Luther King Jr, or Thomas Beckett, because they were just assholes, apparently. Hating a religion because of a rushed understanding of its history is also arrogant and selfish

Actually, I've read through the Bible (which is something that not many Christians I've met have done ), and I've studied history, and the impact religion has had on it. it's why I'm a non-believer. Religion is a crutch, and an excuse for behaving badly to other because they are not like you or your. No rushed or abridged history here, just a considered opinion. If you don't like it, oh fucking well. Oh, and pointing out exceptions doesn't invalidate something, it only highlights how exceptional they were.

My only problem here is that you're going after the faith, and not the minority of believers who act that dumb. The Silent majority of Jews/Christians aren't like this, only the vocal minority. Instead of just looking at the Bible, try learning about the context for why it was written, and why certain parts sound the way they are, in other words, Religious history. Religion may be a "crutch" as you say, but for most, it's not a crutch used to attack people, it's a crutch to strengthen one's self against the many troubles in the world...it's why I am a believer.

I don't know that I would say minority. I was born and raised in the south, as a Lutheran. I can honestly say that the people and people and what they were called upon to believe broke my faith in religion. Now, I strengthen myself when I need it. As for the 'silent majority', well, you know what they say about what happens when good men say nothing. Something about evil ...

And I was born in the south (Birmingham, AL) and raised Baptist, and also became an atheist for a good long while. If you can find strength without any faith or external support system, then you're truly a strong person. I just think that your view of Christianity is based on much too small a scale. Every denomination of Christianity interprets the Bible differently, some conservatively, some liberally. I'm not trying to convert you, as I'm an agnostic, but it hurts to see people attack a religion (much like Evangelicals attack Islam) based on a limited experience. It's like saying that dogs are bad just because you got bitten by a pitbull...it's too small a testing group to analyze correctly.

 

[Sid7Zero]

After crafting and deleting multiple intelligent responses to the myriad comments in this thread, I would like to point out that I'm not exactly comfortable with anyone talking about Jesus and his ween.

 

[Treblaine]

How is one religious group's decision to have and promote a separate, sanitized (i.e. boring) version of a holiday violating Freedom of Religion?

Oh right, it isn't. Either you posted the wrong article, or I've slipped into an alternate reality where "Freedom of Religion" means "everyone has to respect my religion".

Or maybe it's opposite day? It's either one of those or you're exactly what you seem to be angry about. Either way, the U.S. Constitution says you can "QQ MOAR PLZ", because it's their right to have, promote, and observe boring holidays.

the act of freedom of religion also implies that no religion will be pressed upon others.

Celebrating in a different manner is not pressing upon others. If they forced others to celebrate as they did there would be a problem.

alright so their protected legally but damn it if someone walks up to me and says "happy jesus-ween" im punching them in the mouth so they can shut up faster.

*Slow-Clap*

Way to go, you are now officially worse than Christian Fundamentalists.

Why? For lowering yourself even below them by endorsing violence against a benign word of praise.

If a Muslim said "A'salam Allah koum" would you punch him?

You know, everyone may be annoyed as fuckers who go on about "jesus hates gays" and bullshit like that, but when you start cold-cocking people, sorry buddy, but I's cheer when the cops haul your crazy ass away.

Proper response to "Happy Jesus-ween" is "That's a retarded name for a holiday" and walk on by

 

[Madara XIII]

It's a small voice appealing to its core demographic and not much else. If you're also not aware, most of Christian holidays are hijackings of other celebrations. Let it go.

HEEEEEEY!! I'll have you know that Jesus had an all out duel with Kris Kringle and used a Rabbit to stop his evil plans to poison every child with candy. In his attack to save the world he brought us the guardian known as the Easter Bunny to constantly remind us the struggle he endured to prevent Santa from having his way!
thus resulting in CHRISTmas ....

*Takes another drag*
*cough cough*

At least that's how I remember it...*passes out*

 

[Reptiloid]

Hah, silly people. What's next? Are the christians gonna make a christian alternative to Christmas too?

Oh yeah, I went there.

 

[Akukaishi]

... *just walks out of the thread, rubbing his temples*

 

[Jaime_Wolf]

This "Fundamentalist Christianity versus Halloween" thing has been going on for, quite literally, centuries. This is not some new bit of craziness. Hell, this is how the modern celebration of Halloween started - trying to more or less ween (ugh, no pun intended) people off of their primitive devil-worshipping pagan insanity.

And, so far as I can see, the only real merits to religious freedom are:
(a) placating everyone so no group feels particularly persecuted and gets riled up over it
and
(b) preventing the biggest group of dicks from trying to rule over all the other dicks

It isn't useful because it actively makes things better, it's useful because it goes at least a little way toward preventing religious warfare and theocracy. Sure the country would be better off without religion (I already know there are religious people on these forums, this is not an invitation to start that debate, I promise I know you feel differently), but that's simply not an option. If you said "no more religious freedom!", there would be riots.

Hah, silly people. What's next? Are the christians gonna make a christian alternative to Christmas too?

Oh yeah, I went there.

You're aware that this gets proposed every single year, yes?

(So I don't get warned again for obvious satire, the "primitive devil-worshipping pagan insanity" was meant as, well, satire.)

 

[Madara XIII]

How is one religious group's decision to have and promote a separate, sanitized (i.e. boring) version of a holiday violating Freedom of Religion?

Oh right, it isn't. Either you posted the wrong article, or I've slipped into an alternate reality where "Freedom of Religion" means "everyone has to respect my religion".

Or maybe it's opposite day? It's either one of those or you're exactly what you seem to be angry about. Either way, the U.S. Constitution says you can "QQ MOAR PLZ", because it's their right to have, promote, and observe boring holidays.

Yes but the fact that CHRISTIANS!!! (My own people sadly) had to touch this holiday makes me question my beliefs a bit more. I mean honestly the history of Halloween has very little if no christian influence behind it.

We don't need these fundamentalist nutjobs highjacking another holiday
It gives bad PR with God

 

[kebab4you]

Jesus ween, god I'm childish I find this utterly hilarious to name the holiday.

 

[Tselis]

The Christians took over every Pagan holiday they could in an effort to covert as many as they could before killing the rest. The majority of them are arrogant in their faith, ignorant of their faith's history, selfish, severely intolerant, and engage in idolatry. Given their history, does this honestly surprise you?

wow, generalization much? Man, sure glad that I'm not a Christian like Martin Luther King Jr, or Thomas Beckett, because they were just assholes, apparently. Hating a religion because of a rushed understanding of its history is also arrogant and selfish

Actually, I've read through the Bible (which is something that not many Christians I've met have done ), and I've studied history, and the impact religion has had on it. it's why I'm a non-believer. Religion is a crutch, and an excuse for behaving badly to other because they are not like you or your. No rushed or abridged history here, just a considered opinion. If you don't like it, oh fucking well. Oh, and pointing out exceptions doesn't invalidate something, it only highlights how exceptional they were.

My only problem here is that you're going after the faith, and not the minority of believers who act that dumb. The Silent majority of Jews/Christians aren't like this, only the vocal minority. Instead of just looking at the Bible, try learning about the context for why it was written, and why certain parts sound the way they are, in other words, Religious history. Religion may be a "crutch" as you say, but for most, it's not a crutch used to attack people, it's a crutch to strengthen one's self against the many troubles in the world...it's why I am a believer.

I don't know that I would say minority. I was born and raised in the south, as a Lutheran. I can honestly say that the people and people and what they were called upon to believe broke my faith in religion. Now, I strengthen myself when I need it. As for the 'silent majority', well, you know what they say about what happens when good men say nothing. Something about evil ...

And I was born in the south (Birmingham, AL) and raised Baptist, and also became an atheist for a good long while. If you can find strength without any faith or external support system, then you're truly a strong person. I just think that your view of Christianity is based on much too small a scale. Every denomination of Christianity interprets the Bible differently, some conservatively, some liberally. I'm not trying to convert you, as I'm an agnostic, but it hurts to see people attack a religion (much like Evangelicals attack Islam) based on a limited experience. It's like saying that dogs are bad just because you got bitten by a pitbull...it's too small a testing group to analyze correctly.

I certainly don't mean to hurt or offend you. My opinion of religion is based on studying both the history of and the sociological impact of religion on people. People are inherently changeable. Unfortunately, religion tends to change large groups of people towards a direction of exclusion, instead of inclusion. Individually it can work wonders. Those individual accomplishments don't outweigh the group negatives. People both potentially live longer and are happier, individually. Nationally, they go to war. The first doesn't, will never, outweigh the second. Religion, it's a double edged sword. Either way you look at it, it cuts.

 

[tirone231]

Speaking as a Brit who was brought up overseas but often in compounds with other Americans I am so disappointed with how po-faced and niggardly the mainstream Brits have been with Halloween.

I mean the British are supposed to be fun-loving, easy going while the Americans are "supposedly" overly serious and stuck-up.

Yet this Take of the Christian tradition is distinctly Canadian is SUCH FUN! You get to dress up in such wacky costumes, meet and interact with your neighbours in the weirdest of ways. I have such fond memories as a child Trick-or-treating except for my worst one year I had Halloween in Scotland and I went out in costume with my brother and sister,

We were the only ones. The few doors we knocked on people ere utterly bewildered and down right frightened.

But how did the BBC characterise Halloween Trick or Treating when it first appeared in Britain (in the 1980's)? They said it was pure commercialism and compare the act of trick or treating to extortion(!) that should be handled by the police! Seriously, where is the Britain that gave us Monty Python when such a fun and social holiday is viewed with such cynicism and hostility.

Worst is how it is dismissed as an "Americanism" as if there was some how a more suitable British equivalent. There isn't.

It's shit like this which is why I admire America so much, it has a sense of community OTHER THAN all the blokes getting shit-faced down at the pub or being rowdy at a football match.

I love how America with this holiday can capture the macabre and make it family friendly yet still exciting. And I don't mind if some Americans want to bring some Jesus into this holiday, I mean "what would Jesus do"? Of course I'm worried they'd go on some anti-gay agenda or some other Christian fundamentalist bullshit but I'd hope they see the good Christian side of this: how this brings communities together in altruism and includes the next generation, really it includes all ages, to just have a real fun and exciting day.

Why is it Americans seem so much more willing to dress up? I mean cosplay especially.

I was lucky, in most of the places I lived overseas We'd have Halloween and then 5 days later bonfire night...

Remember, Remember
The fifth of NOVEMBER
Gunpowder, treason and PLOT
I cannot find a reason, that this treason, should ever. Be. FORGOT!

Shiiit, I remember the MASSIVE bonfires we had, the fireworks, the "penny for a guy", aw good days.

But it's not quite as good as trick or treating.

As a yank, thank you for your kind words. I suppose I can't come up with as well worded a reason for appreciating the culture of the U.K., but here's a list of things that I appreciate from across the Atlantic:

-damn that accent is sexy.
-i will always spell it "Theatre" not "Theater"
-Patrick Stewart and Hugh Laurie
-English theatre staying away from the neoclassical style around the time of Shakespeare while mainland Europe was homogenizing theatre as much as possible
-the creation of "Father Christmas"
-the simple delight that is "Fish and Chips"...it's so simple, yet satisfying
-...oh, and the creation of the language that I currently speak...that's pretty helpful

(also, I think we like to dress up in costume more because our fantasies are way cooler than our realities)

 

[uhddh]

Pagan holiday perhaps but it is bordering on public holiday (at least in Australia) but the Christians are almost the opposite to Pagans (the actual opposite being Satanists) and so want to change it for their children so they grow up to their beliefs and not their own.

 

[tirone231]

I don't know that I would say minority. I was born and raised in the south, as a Lutheran. I can honestly say that the people and people and what they were called upon to believe broke my faith in religion. Now, I strengthen myself when I need it. As for the 'silent majority', well, you know what they say about what happens when good men say nothing. Something about evil ...

And I was born in the south (Birmingham, AL) and raised Baptist, and also became an atheist for a good long while. If you can find strength without any faith or external support system, then you're truly a strong person. I just think that your view of Christianity is based on much too small a scale. Every denomination of Christianity interprets the Bible differently, some conservatively, some liberally. I'm not trying to convert you, as I'm an agnostic, but it hurts to see people attack a religion (much like Evangelicals attack Islam) based on a limited experience. It's like saying that dogs are bad just because you got bitten by a pitbull...it's too small a testing group to analyze correctly.

I certainly don't mean to hurt or offend you. My opinion of religion is based on studying both the history of and the sociological impact of religion on people. People are inherently changeable. Unfortunately, religion tends to change large groups of people towards a direction of exclusion, instead of inclusion. Individually it can work wonders. Those individual accomplishments don't outweigh the group negatives. People both potentially live longer and are happier, individually. Nationally, they go to war. The first doesn't, will never, outweigh the second. Religion, it's a double edged sword. Either way you look at it, it cuts.

I appreciate your intent, and certainly don't mean to attack your view of faith either. However, I think the individuality v. group traits you described are less indicative of religions themselves and more the old saying "a person is smart, people are stupid". Anytime a group of people come together and have something in common, there's the possibility of exclusion, depending on the subject matter. Politics also does this, even when not discussing religion, as can certain less harmful hobbies. For example: ever see a newbie try to play with pros on Halo or CoD? If that's not hatred and exclusion, then I don't know what is.