WoW Player Claims Kicked from Guild for Being Deaf
- Thread starter Salem_Wolf
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Usually my threads die on me pretty quickly, so it was a scary surprise to find out I'm now hitting 215 replies. Kind of a mind blown moment. And how well it remained on the road, perhaps hitting the ditch a little bit, is creepy. I don't usually see these kinds of threads stay on topic. Hooray?RaikuFA said:
I'm sorry I feel bad for the guy, I know what it is like losing friends you thought cared about you. I lost friends I had for 9 years because I'm black and not rich enough (even though we lived on the same street), they pretended to like me just to mock me. But he is sounding like a big cry baby like everyone is out to get him. I knew someone who wasSalem_Wolf said:I gotta be honest, I feel HORRIBLE for the guy, because:Arehexes said:No it's not your fault, this topic is bugging me becauseSalem_Wolf said:Oh! No I didn't get a notification but it kind of sounded like you may have been directing that at me. I just didn't want to avoid answering you if you were discussing something, I personally hate it when someone doesn't respond. Though it sounded somewhat sarcastic. Haha, but no worries no mix-up just making sure!Arehexes said:wait, why did you get the notification...sorry I dind't mean to direct that at you, it was ment for RaikuFA and I was sure I click on his thing to quote (as you can tell from the cascading quotes). Sorry if there was mix upSalem_Wolf said:Wait are you directing this at me? If so I never got the notification for it in my inbox. So, uh, it's why I ask.Arehexes said:Well what disability do you have, is it not being able to read a whole comment. I'm still waiting on your thoughts on thisRaikuFA said:thats great. now we have an actual guild that dosent hate people for being diffrentSalem_Wolf said:Actually, he did form his own guild.poiumty said:
He tells me that i can't raid unless i have vent. Guild rules and all. I was pissed. After a huge blow out between us i get removed from the guild and put on ignore. Our guild wasn't even that good. We did naxx full clear 10 man once.
well?
Edit: Just wanted to add it was my idiocy that made me wonder if it was directed at me or not, heh, sorry.
1)Most people didn't seem to read the whole topic and are assuming he was kicked for being deaf when there is a line saying he got in a "big blow out" with the guild leader, and we don't know what happened during that part (which seems important if this was a court case or something like that)...for that case how did he get deaf, if he did it to himself I don't wanna hear whining(kinda like a skate border getting hurt and milking it even though he was doing a risky stunt)
2)People acting like competition is evil(in video games at least) just because someone got kicked from a guild. When in the rule world competition will happen to you sooner or later, if your going to hunt for a job you better be competitive if 50 other people are trying to get your job(I grow sick of that speech in my programming classes...
1) He's going through a rough period, ignoring WoW he's lost most or all of his hearing, he RL friends in his post mention that it's easier not to deal with him, and now he's out of his guild, for WHATEVER reason, he no longer has those friends of 4 years, so it really sucks for him as a whole. Maybe he was a douchebag who called the guild leader's mother a street-walking alleyway whore, yeah that might lessen my feeling on the guy's pain, but he's still likely frustrated by the reception of his accident. So, there's that.
2) They were his friends. He mentioned an RL raid which I assume to be a lan-party raid, I've never done an RL raid, so I don't know. But without more details all around, it sucks because you can only go by what's being said.
There's a quote, famously enough, that goes: "History is written by the victor." In this case our deaf WoW player is the victor, and we'll remember it going down as "he was kicked, Guild is a douche, let's do horrible things to them/guild leader until he/she feels suffering in the way this now-deaf player is/does".
It sucks, competition is everywhere I agree, completely, if you're not up to the task you lose a job, or you are kicked off the team, but also there are ways to compensate, too. Ya know? He assured the GL he would do his best to compensate and I think from what is said he wasn't even given a fair shake. Now, perhaps it's more than "no" "but why" "your mom is a whore get out of my guild" and he was given a fair shake, failed, and posted his rant, we just don't know.
But the point is: well, I don't care if you spend 15+ hours a day on WoW, it's really, at the end of the day, a game. You're not going to make nationals, you aren't in a championship game, and if you become top you get...nothing. You're not making a million dollars a raid or sign with a coach who'll get you to the Super Bowl, you're playing a game. Competition is certainly not evil, it breeds superiority (negative or positive), but I think the whole thing is childish and he didn't get a fair shake from what we know, and that's just not right. (Italics for emphasis)
Honestly, I only re-posted from the original page because I felt bad for the guy, wondered what everyone's opinion on this whole scenario was. I'm surprised it's lasted for as long as it did, for more than the reason my threads usually keel or and die in the first couple posts, haha, but more so because I figured everyone would go "that sucks, that's life". Seems to have gotten a tad out of hand, all around. For which I feel bad for, hopefully at the end of the day no one's feelings were hurt though. But, such is life I suppose...
Edit: Sorry for making such a long reply. >_<
A)adopted
B)had cancer since they were young
C)could not walk
and that person got shit, no one give this person a break besides the family. Their parents had to fight to get ramps at the school they had the person going to (and this was a public school). Picked on because they couldn't walked, even left by their date in the bathroom when they fell out of their chair (the date would not let anyone help the person more or less said "No one will help it's that's person's problem"). Had a rough life but keep their head up and did what they set out to do (I am not doing gender or name cause this was a close person to me). Died a week before getting at of college...so excuse me if I don't see someone getting deaf and not "hearing well" as a big life changer. It's not like he lost a way of life, he can still go one and walk on two damn feet.
And I know what living like a outcast is like
1)Had no friends till 3rd grade and even then they mocked me. So for the longest time my only friends where more or less bullies but I had no one else
2)Each friend hated me for no reason, the few I have left I don't feel I can trust sometimes
3)I've been beaten up for having long hair no less (a black guy with a pony tail) and was always in trouble for fighting when I didn't start it.
4)Had a whole high school more or less shun me cause I'm not "black enough"
And to explain what this has to do with the topic I'll explain it
1)I don't care if he is disabled or not, rules are rules. And note it's not like he has a mental disability where he doesn't know right from wrong.
2)If they were his friends they would have sided with him when he was kicked, they were not so they were not his friends.
3)YOU DO NOT NEED A VIDEO GAME TO OUT REACH SOMEONE. He can still walk, and get around what is stopping him? If his friends left him cause he can't hear then they aren't friends he needs end of story. Stop crying about it and move on.
4)That's life boo'hoo I hope the world is nicer to him, but you know what there are more hurting a lot more then he is. He can still do what ever he wants for the most part, he isn't bound to a wheelchair is he, he isn't sick with a cancer is he. If he is going to cry over a video game then let him, he needs to learn the world isn't a nice place and not everyone well help.
Oh btw gaming is becoming a "sport" if the crappy MLGs are anything to go by (I hate talking to people about that, the smugness is so stupid)
Sucks to be him, doesn't mean it wasn't well within the rights of the guild leader or that he was even wrong in doing it. I imagine you've never played WoW or at least never raided. Communication without the use of Vent/TS is pretty much impossible.Salem_Wolf said:
Type text? Yeah, lemme see you paying attention to your surroundings, working your rotation flawlessly and then somehow still manage to type despite the fact that opening a chat box basically nullifies all your keybindings for the duration of you typing the message, let alone actually be able to write out a coherent sentence with your attention already severely taxed.
Sorry, but it's pretty much the case of a handicapped person being dropped out of the school's football team after the accident. Sad? Sure. Wrong? Sorry, but not really.
Oh and heads up, this is coming from someone who actually has raided with a deaf person. You can read tactics on random sites all you want, fact is, each guild does things their own way, which means for every single boss, for every single pull you need to add something, that person needs special treatment which essentially comes down to 9/24 people waiting until you explain everything you just did again to a single person. More importantly, during the fights themselves, due to reasons I've mentioned above, it's impossible to communicate to that person at all.
Also, reading into the story further, he wasn't kicked from the guild. He was told he couldn't raid. Again, due to above, I can totally understand that. Now on top of that he went ahead and had a "blow out" with the guild leader, considering that from the sound of his post he was told politely he can't raid, my guess is that he started a heated argument over it and heads up, being deaf doesn't give you the excuse to go Bale on someone.
To you people thinking/saying "it's just a game" - yes, that is exactly what it is. A place where you go to have fun, not have to spend your time worrying about someone else's problems and have them lessen your game experience (which is a fact, not a matter of insensitivity). There's plenty of guilds out there that'll welcome deaf people and that's really cool, hell I've been in one and would be in one again (said deaf person above never got any flak or even animosity from anyone in the guild, myself included, was actually an awesome guy) - but it doesn't make one guild that's not willing to put up with it and place the happiness of one member over the enjoyment of the rest in the wrong.
People have made careers out of gaming ... MLGs aren't my thing, but here's an example I do follow:Arehexes said:
In about an hour (and 8 minutes), the first round of the Code S sponsorship tournament at GOMTV.net starts. GOM's tournaments have a total prize pool of US$1.5 million in 2011.
You say this:
Now yes, we dont know the kid said or did. But its the principle of the matter (to me at least). this is going to go down hill fast after this, but its the best way I can explain it because it actually happened to me. I'm Native American descent which means I'm darker then most. I, a black kid (my friend Cameron), and a large majority of white kids (most of whom are my friends), went out for a winter snow ball fight. Now, we had picked up a kid we did not know, but felt sorry for and wanted to include him in our festivities. When it came time to pick teams, he passed over both of us because and i quote him:
"they're not white. They'll be easy to spot against the white of the snow. Whoever picks them is going to have the same thing as two people with broken legs trying to win the 100 meter team dash."
So while no, we dont know what he said and he could be the one at fault, to me (and I cant stress enough that this is MY opinion and MY view on it and shouldnt be the views of everyone else), its unfair to design a guild with rules that exclude others with disabilities when you know they exist and you could potentially run into them. In the United States we had a civil rights movement and other movements for the disabled so this doesnt happen. Yes, WoW is an international game, but its been on the market for a while and is being put out by a company founded in the US.
And I'm sorry, but I feel sorry for you. Not in the way that, "oh he doesnt understand" but in the way of "its a shame he's been ostracized". Perhaps you didnt want to hear that, perhaps you dont believe it, but I do feel for you. Everyone at some point knows what its like to be ostracized, I do, you do, those to post before and after us, we all know. But we shouldnt make it the norm. We should say this is wrong. Maybe not destroy the guild, but impose a punishment of some kind. People need a lesson, an example to say "this is wrong, we will not tolerate it, nor will we tolerate other things that would be viewed as offensive." What sets this apart as morally acceptable but banning people or punishing them for putting a swastika in their gamer profiles arent just because we dont know both sides of the story? I dont remember anyone asking for that kid's side of the story. Maybe he wanted to honor a grandfather that died and he was a german soldier.
Finally, maybe this is people's lives, but that in and of itself is wrong. Yes, its wrong to judge like that, but its unnatural, unhealthy, and just plain odd to spend your life playing WoW or any other game that extensively. Boundaries have to be made between a TOY and a real life.
With that, I'll step down off my soap box and wait. Maybe the person you quoted didnt answer your call, but I tried as best I could for what they quoted me on that you quoted them for.
Yet in this post:Arehexes said:
You do close to the same thing. Albeit, when you did it you didnt say that he was absolutely right.Arehexes said:
Now yes, we dont know the kid said or did. But its the principle of the matter (to me at least). this is going to go down hill fast after this, but its the best way I can explain it because it actually happened to me. I'm Native American descent which means I'm darker then most. I, a black kid (my friend Cameron), and a large majority of white kids (most of whom are my friends), went out for a winter snow ball fight. Now, we had picked up a kid we did not know, but felt sorry for and wanted to include him in our festivities. When it came time to pick teams, he passed over both of us because and i quote him:
"they're not white. They'll be easy to spot against the white of the snow. Whoever picks them is going to have the same thing as two people with broken legs trying to win the 100 meter team dash."
So while no, we dont know what he said and he could be the one at fault, to me (and I cant stress enough that this is MY opinion and MY view on it and shouldnt be the views of everyone else), its unfair to design a guild with rules that exclude others with disabilities when you know they exist and you could potentially run into them. In the United States we had a civil rights movement and other movements for the disabled so this doesnt happen. Yes, WoW is an international game, but its been on the market for a while and is being put out by a company founded in the US.
And I'm sorry, but I feel sorry for you. Not in the way that, "oh he doesnt understand" but in the way of "its a shame he's been ostracized". Perhaps you didnt want to hear that, perhaps you dont believe it, but I do feel for you. Everyone at some point knows what its like to be ostracized, I do, you do, those to post before and after us, we all know. But we shouldnt make it the norm. We should say this is wrong. Maybe not destroy the guild, but impose a punishment of some kind. People need a lesson, an example to say "this is wrong, we will not tolerate it, nor will we tolerate other things that would be viewed as offensive." What sets this apart as morally acceptable but banning people or punishing them for putting a swastika in their gamer profiles arent just because we dont know both sides of the story? I dont remember anyone asking for that kid's side of the story. Maybe he wanted to honor a grandfather that died and he was a german soldier.
Finally, maybe this is people's lives, but that in and of itself is wrong. Yes, its wrong to judge like that, but its unnatural, unhealthy, and just plain odd to spend your life playing WoW or any other game that extensively. Boundaries have to be made between a TOY and a real life.
With that, I'll step down off my soap box and wait. Maybe the person you quoted didnt answer your call, but I tried as best I could for what they quoted me on that you quoted them for.
I understand were you're coming from, for most who haven't had it as hard this is kind of a big deal to them. Ya know? I had few friends growing up, most of my friends are on the internet so I understand how he feels so crushed his friends would leave as they supposedly did. If it's any consolation I'd have been friends with you and your close friend, and I'm sorry for your loss no matter how long ago it was. For him, though, it may be he has a social disorder than limits him from getting out, it's not uncommon, it's possible, but relax, friends leave it sucks, crying and moving on? Let him have a moment to say "well...fuck...", you've had a rough one, I get it, but no reason not to let him have a moment. Besides, he's turned this into something positive.Arehexes said:
Yeah there ARE a lot of people hurting more than him, but when does the line get drawn when we stop caring about everything and only about the worst? You can't afford food? Hey at least you have a house for now, stop crying and get over it. You lost your job? Your parents will take you in, stop crying. See how it works? Yeah you might not see it the way I do, but if you go about saying "stop crying, get over it" to him, when does the line cross when you say "sorry your husband died, you got a place to live, stop crying"? I'm not trying to be a dick about it, honestly, but you seem to be taking this story seriously and personally, if your text is any indication.
And yeah, I forgot about MLG, but I don't think these guys were in any running to be in any competition. It sucks about your life, racism is a horrible thing it is, I have a few black friends and I'm white, I see them as friends, no less, some off-the-wall jokes are said but that's about it. Racism is there, but we're cool and see past it, and it works both ways we're kind of cool with it.
Now only two points I want to bring out specifically:
1)I don't care if he is disabled or not, rules are rules. And note it's not like he has a mental disability where he doesn't know right from wrong.
Yeah, he knows the rules but after 4 years in the guild you'd think a fair shake would be given, ya know? Give him a chance and I think the situation would have been avoided, coulda gone better.
2)If they were his friends they would have sided with him when he was kicked, they were not so they were not his friends.
No, they weren't his friends, but for 4 years he thought they were. I don't care who you are, that's a horrible blow to endure. After 4 years if my best friend sided with someone else, I don't care, I'd be crushed. Anyone who says they wouldn't be is
A) Lying
B) Doesn't feel they're a friend in the first place.
My two cents in response.
Edit: Uh...is the Escapist going down cause I keep getting 404s, twice so far. Hm.
Wow, thanks. I should just quote this and be done. That was great, provocative, and quite a well-thought out response. Parallel to what I said, in many says. Thank you.emeraldrafael said:
You're assuming, and wrong at that. I have been in raids and I haven't used Vent for it MUCH. Wrath of Lich King era raids, at that, if Cataclysm has become harder, then I wouldn't know, I haven't played for about six months but I've played WoW and done raids with only typing. It works. It's difficult, yeah, but it CAN be done, impossible? No. Macros exist for a reason, and raids before voice was mandatory have existed for a long time.Vrach said:
Now I did say I didn't use vent much, I have done it, yes it makes things easier, but is it impossible without? Not really.
Really? I know guildmates who are my friends, even after I stopped playing and would accommodate for my lack of vent. So please don't presume to know everything about the game. Your experience =/= all.KarumaK said:
As a person in a hardcore raiding guild myself, I can relate to both sides of this conflict. On one hand, being kicked because you're deaf is absolutely not OK. It's not something the person can control, and it's borderline cruel.
On the other... you can't really function in a WoW raid if you can't use your hearing. I'm sorry, but you would be a liability in our raid. You can make all sorts of adjustments to your interface and add mods and such that help you out a lot, but nothing can replace live voice communication. It's the same in any competitive multiplayer scenario: voice chat is the single most important facet of team gaming.
On the other... you can't really function in a WoW raid if you can't use your hearing. I'm sorry, but you would be a liability in our raid. You can make all sorts of adjustments to your interface and add mods and such that help you out a lot, but nothing can replace live voice communication. It's the same in any competitive multiplayer scenario: voice chat is the single most important facet of team gaming.
Agreed, but I still think they could have at least tried out a Raid before he was kicked to see how much of a hindrance he was going to be. I've done some Raids about, er, 6-7 months ago that I didn't use voice chat for and they went rather well. Things may have changed a lot since then, I wouldn't know haven't played since, but I too see both sides but it doesn't stop me from feeling fairly bad for the guy and thinking that this whole situation could have been avoided.MetallicaRulez0 said:
But as I said multiple times, I don't know the whole story, but it sucks, no matter how you spin it.
Don't think all of them act like that, I've been in plenty of awesome guilds and not everyone is a jerk, some of my best friends came from WoW.strangeotron said:
Eh, I see both sides. Many guilds require Ventrilo or Teamspeak in order to communicate. Him being deaf makes that impossible. It is up to the guild to decide what to do. They chose to kick him and find someone more able to abide by the guild rules.
That being said, I have been gaming with a deaf person for many years and he is one of the best players I know. We have been in several guilds together that require ventrilo but made an exception for him. Some guilds are simply more accommodating than others. Vent is a crutch for most guilds and they require it for that reason. Some will allow exceptions for good reason (such as being deaf) My current guild is one of the top 10 man guilds on my server and we do not use vent or teamspeak. It really just depends upon the guild. If the above mentioned person is a good player he will have no trouble finding a new guild.
That being said, I have been gaming with a deaf person for many years and he is one of the best players I know. We have been in several guilds together that require ventrilo but made an exception for him. Some guilds are simply more accommodating than others. Vent is a crutch for most guilds and they require it for that reason. Some will allow exceptions for good reason (such as being deaf) My current guild is one of the top 10 man guilds on my server and we do not use vent or teamspeak. It really just depends upon the guild. If the above mentioned person is a good player he will have no trouble finding a new guild.
Some people play this game competitively. If you are running a 4x100m relay and one of your team becomes crippled or otherwise unable to run, guess what? Game over, someone else is in. When one person drags down the whole team then time to move on.
If you don't agree with that, don't be in a guild of this nature. Some people revel in success & their fun is measured in that way, and there are things that must be taken to ensure the success of the group as a whole.
As for the rest of it, a bunch of bleeding hearts on this forum crying foul about it. Don't be in a guild then if you don't like it. It's not a right, it's a priveledge.
I'd write more but it'd invite probation of some sort
If you don't agree with that, don't be in a guild of this nature. Some people revel in success & their fun is measured in that way, and there are things that must be taken to ensure the success of the group as a whole.
As for the rest of it, a bunch of bleeding hearts on this forum crying foul about it. Don't be in a guild then if you don't like it. It's not a right, it's a priveledge.
I'd write more but it'd invite probation of some sort
Agreed, but it is horrible when someone goes through something like that.Kortney said:
I put the handlebar of my BMX through my leg, scraping past my main artery, in 2007. I almost died, and I suffered from depression for over two years.
I actually started playing WoW and even though I didn't make friends on it, I joined friendly guilds and I never even heard of "vent" which I presume is the chat function for headset users.
I guess when it comes to WoW players, some really do take it seriously, without thinking about how others feel.
To be honest about the snow ball fight...he kinda has a point, if your going for camo the people who are darker then the snow is a bad thing since it's easy to spot(this is from a military logic). (my point of view)But that was rude because it's a snow ball fight with kids not military war games, but the difference is you guys picked up a kid you did not know if your quoting what I said about the friend thing. These were guys I was friends with for 9 years and they just stop talking to me because I'm black, or not one of "them".emeraldrafael said:
And I don't care if you feel sorry or not for me, life taught me in the end all you have is family and mostly yourself to look after. Also the kid isn't unable to play games, what about people who can't stand the bright lights from video games and get sick we should make it easy for them to play not ostracized them because they can't stand the bright lights. You have that puppy eye ambition where no one is hurt, that won't happen. And I would love to see the Guild Master do something like "Your Deaf LOLZ you can't do shit your out of the guild bye loser" then you can start crap up. I don't see that, I just see a WoW addict crying he can't go on a raid (which is something a lot of hardcore guilds like to do), because he is deaf and the guild master doesn't want him.
But what about the other guilds, he mention he tried to go to other guilds but they wouldn't take him. Why not hate on them, they are just as bad by everyone's book. He is just whining he got kicked from a guild. I'm sorry he was hurt, but there are other guilds since WoW is the biggest MMORPG out there you mean he couldn't find one guild? But fine you guys can go "aw that sucks"