WTF is a Red Piller?

[Dizchu]

Uhh no. That is not the worst I see from MRAs and red pill people.

And pointing out instances of MRA etc douchebaggery isn't cherry picking.

If you look at (fairly prominent) feminist literature throughout the 20th century you'll find extreme fantasies that involved male genocide.

I know MRAs are douchebags but apart from Elliot Rodger I haven't heard anything on the same level. Oh and it'll most likely never get published.

 

[EclipseoftheDarkSun]

I think perhaps a different kind of pill would be equally appropriate http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/family/nancy_kissel/Rohypnol-pills200.jpg Well, apart from the colour that is.

 

[GrumbleGrump]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!

Walk away OP....burn the thread! Salt the earth!!!!

*sigh*

[sub/]oh how I weep for the day it has bled over here from reddit[\sub]

Ok aside from what others have said...anyone seen the Disney version of hunchback if notre dame?

They think they're pheobus

They think everyone else are quasi modo

They're actually Frollo

My god... So they're all voiced by Tony Jay?!

Imma be a red piller now

I think perhaps a different kind of pill would be equally appropriate http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/family/nancy_kissel/Rohypnol-pills200.jpg Well, apart from the colour that is.

Somebody pass the rohypnol... No fuck that, we need some Ambien.

Well, we certainly need somethiens.

 

[LetalisK]

They think the way to fight fire (a fire that is mostly imaginary) is by blanketing it with napalm.

...okay, kidding aside, you can actually put out a fire with high explosive artillery. The explosion basically incinerates what's left of the fuel and, more importantly, suffocates the area from the explosion chewing up all the oxygen.

That said, artillery usually starts fires far more often than puts them out. <.<

 

[Dizchu]

They think the way to fight fire (a fire that is mostly imaginary) is by blanketing it with napalm.

...okay, kidding aside, you can actually put out a fire with high explosive artillery. The explosion basically incinerates what's left of the fuel and, more importantly, suffocates the area from the explosion chewing up all the oxygen.

That said, artillery usually starts fires far more often than puts them out. <.<

Clever though I wonder how well the idiom "fight fire with a supply of oxygen" would catch on.

 

[Gorrath]

Men's Rights Activists.

It's like white pride advocates, in theory one of them somewhere might not be a complete wanker, but no-one's ever found one who isn't.

You may as well make a _____ there and throw any group you want into it. I get that you don't mean that literally, but it's the sort of vapid criticism that people lob at movements when they've nothing productive to say. People say the same nonsense about feminists. And MRA is crucially different than white pride advocates in that men in western society do actually have instances where their sex becomes the reason they are discriminated against. This is well documented and backed up by the same types of statistics people use to show any other kind of discrimination. Fell free to slot me in with the "wankers" if you feel it appropriate though.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Clever though I wonder how well the idiom "fight fire with a supply of oxygen" would catch on.

It was a plot point in a recent Doctor Who story. Not one of their better ones.

And MRA is crucially different than white pride advocates in that men in western society do actually have instances where their sex becomes the reason they are discriminated against. This is well documented and backed up by the same types of statistics people use to show any other kind of discrimination.

Sure, but that's got a lot to do with people who care about such issues, and little to do with MRAs. Likewise, PETA are a bunch of tossers, even though animal cruelty exists.

 

[Gorrath]

Clever though I wonder how well the idiom "fight fire with a supply of oxygen" would catch on.

It was a plot point in a recent Doctor Who story. Not one of their better ones.

And MRA is crucially different than white pride advocates in that men in western society do actually have instances where their sex becomes the reason they are discriminated against. This is well documented and backed up by the same types of statistics people use to show any other kind of discrimination.

Sure, but that's got a lot to do with people who care about such issues, and little to do with MRAs. Likewise, PETA are a bunch of tossers, even though animal cruelty exists.

Except I do care about such issues and I am an MRA. Comparing MRA to PETA is fallacious because one is a whole movement, and one is a single group within a movement. I am a feminist and I very often don't support NOW. I am an animal right's advocate and I don't support PETA ever. Being unwilling to make the distinction between what some MRA groups do/advocate for and what the core ideology of MRA is is no different than someone pretending that PETA speaks for all animal rights advocates.

 

[Godhead]

I came into this thread expecting silly conspiracy truthers or an alchemy thread. I am sorely disappointed.

 

[sombrero_joe]

Redpill is to Men's Rights as SJWs are to Feminism you could say.

Both derogatory terms that are meant to discern the more extremes. Redpillers share many of the same concerns as MRAs(prison sentences, marriage, child custody, genital mutilation, draft, due process and reproductive rights) but thrown in with a whole PUA narrative and an absolute conviction in their ideological beliefs(which easily turns into bigotry).

 

[Infernai]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!

Walk away OP....burn the thread! Salt the earth!!!!

No, that won't be enough...I'm afraid we have to call in more extreme measures...

In fealty to the God Emperor, our undying lord, I declare Exterminatus upon this Red Piller thread.

I hereby sign the death warrant of an entire thread, and consign a...few dozen souls to Oblivion.

May Imperial Justice account in All Balance.

The Emperor Protects

 

[Schadrach]

Ok so I've been seeing this phrase pop up in the forums in the past few days, and I've no clue what it's trying to describe.

I'm assuming based on the pop culture context, that it's referring to the Matrix, and someone who took the Red Pill, and thus someone who I guess "see's the Truth of the world" ??

I dunno, the context in which it has been used that I've seen, assumes I already know the definition of it, and I've only seen it over the past day or so.

So wtf is the term Red Piller talking about?

A flavor of relatively extremist MRA. http://www.reddit.com/r/theredpill - always better to look at what people believe for yourself, otherwise you end up taking the word of a douchebag like David Futrelle who'll quote mine till he strikes something he can use.

Ahh okies. Thanks for that. It doesn't sound as bad as my imagination made it out to be. Though i'm sure any site with anonymous posting can attract specially dubious intent

...Ponies...?

A bunch of people actually left http://4chan.org during the whole GamerGate mess, and moved to http://8chan.co which is similar, but allows anyone to create any board they want, and the admins generally won't bother you unless you are doing something that is actually illegal.

 

[Schadrach]

I think having a website named "we hunted the mammoth" is a perfect example of the Neanderthal mindset these guys have. "Wah, times have changed and I can't get by on machismo anymore. Unfair!"

Err, you know that "We Hunted the Mammoth" is an anti-MRA site, right? They actually specialize in digging through anything said by anyone who claims to be an MRA looking for something they can declare misogyny, sometimes going so far as to neatly trim quotes out of context. The site used to be called Manboobz. They once held a contest to see if anyone could find an MRA that didn't say anything they'd find misogynistic (then discounted one possibility because they didn't like his positions even though they couldn't find an example of his misogyny in a timely fashion).

My favorite example from there was that they once went on about the utter misogyny of an article that they claimed to be promoting domestic violence against women. The thing is the article in question was satire (poorly done satire, but clearly satire), and even if you completely missed that it was satire and took it at full "Jonathan Swift says we should eat Irish babies" seriousness, the horrific thing it recommended was "if a woman is violent towards you, respond in kind and without restraint", though it was rather graphic about it. It was also originally written in response to an article from Jezebel wherein several Jezebel editors spoke about beating up their boyfriends, and none of them acted like doing so was, you know, a bad thing.

Trim a few quotes, remove the context, ignore that it's satire (though poor satire) and you get how Manboobz/We Hunted the Mammoth presented it. There's a reason I said you should always look to what people actually claim to believe rather than what their enemies accuse them of.

Uhh no. That is not the worst I see from MRAs and red pill people.

And pointing out instances of MRA etc douchebaggery isn't cherry picking.

If you look at (fairly prominent) feminist literature throughout the 20th century you'll find extreme fantasies that involved male genocide.

I know MRAs are douchebags but apart from Elliot Rodger I haven't heard anything on the same level. Oh and it'll most likely never get published.

See, now you are cherry picking, because it's only cherry picking when certain groups are subject to it. Or does it not count because women are the proletariat of gender or some such?

 

[Dizchu]

See, now you are cherry picking, because it's only cherry picking when certain groups are subject to it. Or does it not count because women are the proletariat of gender or some such?

Ohh I'm not making generalisations about feminism, I understand that the people that call for androcide or violence against males are in the minority. The point is, they can't be ignored. Writers like Andrea Dworkin, Sally Miller Gearhart and Robin Morgan sadly characterise certain aspects of feminism and have made contributions to its vast bibliography.

Don't get me wrong, I have more respect for feminism than I do for MRAs but I haven't seen many MRAs call for a severe reduction in the amount of females the way that some feminists have called for reduction in males. I'm not so much cherry-picking as acknowledging that the cherries are there to be picked.

 

[happyninja42]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!

Walk away OP....burn the thread! Salt the earth!!!!

No, that won't be enough...I'm afraid we have to call in more extreme measures...

In fealty to the God Emperor, our undying lord, I declare Exterminatus upon this Red Piller thread.

I hereby sign the death warrant of an entire thread, and consign a...few dozen souls to Oblivion.

May Imperial Justice account in All Balance.

The Emperor Protects

Yeah, as the OP of this thread, I've had my question thoroughly answered, and would be happy to see the thread die. It was not my intent to create another flame thread, just to simply get the definition of the term as it's being used on this site. I've got that at this point. xD So stop posting here! I dun wanna see it popping up to the top of the threads list as often as it is now! xD

Note: I know me saying this isn't going to actually mean shit, but hey, I thought it was worth the effort at least.

 

[sombrero_joe]

Yeah, as the OP of this thread, I've had my question thoroughly answered, and would be happy to see the thread die. It was not my intent to create another flame thread, just to simply get the definition of the term as it's being used on this site. I've got that at this point. xD So stop posting here! I dun wanna see it popping up to the top of the threads list as often as it is now! xD

Note: I know me saying this isn't going to actually mean shit, but hey, I thought it was worth the effort at least.

That's the internet gender wars for you. I think the best thing you can get out of this is that there are extremists on every side, preaching one form of ideology or another. So its best to keep your critical thinking cap on when delving into this pile of crap.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yeah, as the OP of this thread, I've had my question thoroughly answered, and would be happy to see the thread die.

You can contact a mod and request closure.

 

[Souther Thorn]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!

Walk away OP....burn the thread! Salt the earth!!!!

*sigh*

[sub/]oh how I weep for the day it has bled over here from reddit[\sub]

Ok aside from what others have said...anyone seen the Disney version of hunchback if notre dame?

They think they're pheobus

They think everyone else are quasi modo

They're actually Frollo

I really love you for that metaphor, SO goddamned apt.

 

[Azure23]

See, now you are cherry picking, because it's only cherry picking when certain groups are subject to it. Or does it not count because women are the proletariat of gender or some such?

Ohh I'm not making generalisations about feminism, I understand that the people that call for androcide or violence against males are in the minority. The point is, they can't be ignored. Writers like Andrea Dworkin, Sally Miller Gearhart and Robin Morgan sadly characterise certain aspects of feminism and have made contributions to its vast bibliography.

Don't get me wrong, I have more respect for feminism than I do for MRAs but I haven't seen many MRAs call for a severe reduction in the amount of females the way that some feminists have called for reduction in males. I'm not so much cherry-picking as acknowledging that the cherries are there to be picked.

Wait wait wait waaaaait. Do you mean the same Sally Miller Gearheart who's famously quoted as saying "love is the universal truth at the center of creation?" The famous gay rights activist? Because I've really enjoyed what literature I've read from her. If you've got examples of hate speech from her I've gotta say I'm kinda devastated, I thought she was better than that. I won't argue with you on Andrea Dworkin though, except to say that she had a tough life characterized by domestic and sexual abuse at an early age, and it shows in her sex negative viewpoint and crusade against pornography.
Personally though, I don't think it's quite fair to say that feminist scholars such as Robin Morgan, who spearheaded second wave feminism, really characterize modern feminism. She certainly made contributions, I won't argue with that, but she was infamously trans phobic and that doesn't exactly mesh well with third wave feminism, as literally the most important aspect of third wave feminism is intersectionality.

Anyway I'd love to have a good discussion about this (I sincerely hope you can't produce the goods on Sally Gearheart, though considering second wave feminism, I'm entirely sure she's got some very problematic views I haven't run into yet.) and I'd like to say that I don't dislike any of the MRA's that I personally know, that is, compassionate male activists who try and address ACTUAL problems men face. I'd even count myself among them, except, the label is kinda toxic and all of the problems they're addressing are also being discussed by every feminist I know (thank you intersectionality!).
So yeah, I consider myself a third wave feminist, one who focuses on educating myself on the oppression that people who weren't born a white, straight, male experience.

 

[Dizchu]

Wait wait wait waaaaait. Do you mean the same Sally Miller Gearheart who's famously quoted as saying "love is the universal truth at the center of creation?" The famous gay rights activist? Because I've really enjoyed what literature I've read from her. If you've got examples of hate speech from her I've gotta say I'm kinda devastated, I thought she was better than that.

Not sure I'd call it "hate speech" and also not sure if it's reflective of her current views but in the 80s she wrote an essay called "The Future - if there is one - is Female" which included the gem "The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." I applaud her for her gay rights activism but that's some pretty bizarre stuff right there. Was it satire? I'd like evidence that it wasn't sincere just because many of the other things she's said are highly agreeable.

It's quite odd actually. You'll find civil rights activists saying some crazy feminist things despite their excellent work campaigning for the rights of blacks. Gay rights activists that propose insane misandrist/misogynist/heterophobic solutions to certain things, feminists that are homophobic (recently there have been a few examples of feminists complaining that gay rights activists "don't care about women enough" and claim that there is more misogyny within the LGBT community than with straight people, all without reliable statistics of course). Not to mention the absolutely appalling transphobia found in some feminist circles.

Shrug. Everyone's got different views though. I like plenty of musicians despite their abhorrent political views. I'm still able to enjoy Earthworm Jim despite it being designed by a bigot.

Personally though, I don't think it's quite fair to say that feminist scholars such as Robin Morgan, who spearheaded second wave feminism, really characterize modern feminism. She certainly made contributions, I won't argue with that, but she was infamously trans phobic and that doesn't exactly mesh well with third wave feminism, as literally the most important aspect of third wave feminism is intersectionality.

Hmm, it seems to me as if feminism has these "waves" so they can jettison the previous one once they realise it's become too problematic. What I'd personally like to see is more of an effort to categorise feminists. The reason I personally distance myself from the label is because of the transphobia, misanthropy and misandry. Now if people made more of an effort to make these opinions distinct (I believe transphobic feminists are called Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists or TERFs) I'd be more willing to call myself a feminist (if I had to make up a feminist label for myself it'd be a post-gender feminist).

But feminism as it's portrayed in the media is presented as this homogeneous mass. People that want to lessen the effect of gender double-standards are lumped in with women that want to hurt men or out transwomen for "not being genuine women". It's like when Muslims that practice their religion peacefully are grouped with Muslims that behead apostates. Treating them both the same both demonises peaceful Muslims and allows the violent ones to hide behind their more tolerant counterparts.

Anyway I'd love to have a good discussion about this (I sincerely hope you can't produce the goods on Sally Gearheart, though considering second wave feminism, I'm entirely sure she's got some very problematic views I haven't run into yet.)

"The Future - if there is one - is Female" is the essay I took issue with. Maybe I'm taking it out of context but as you said, second wave feminists don't shy away from really bizarre views.

So yeah, I consider myself a third wave feminist, one who focuses on educating myself on the oppression that people who weren't born a white, straight, male experience.

That's a type of feminism I can completely sympathise with! I don't want to come off as an "anti-feminist" (a feminist critic or skeptic, maybe, but I'm not opposed to feminism). I just think self-reflection and explicit disownment of toxicity will do the movement a lot of good.