Xbox one in serious trouble!

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

If the original Xbox wasn't in serious trouble, the Xbone is definitely not in serious trouble.

Consoles are for those that are either casually hardcore and/or hardcore in the casual department...

I'm a PC Technician and I don't want to waste the time finding fixes for PC games, you always run into some issue that takes you an hour of Googling to find some guy on some forum that found the fix for your issue. I spend more time actually playing games on console; I put the game in and it just works. For example, the first week Splinter Cell Blacklist was released, 90% of posts on the official forum were about the PC version not working whereas I played on PS3 with no issues.

 

[Sheo_Dagana]

Your title for this thread is extremely misleading, but I love how people think a price drop X number of months after a system's release means the 'system is in trouble.' People complain about expensive price points, but when said price point is reduced by any amount, those same people lose faith in the product. I've never understood it.

 

[fix-the-spade]

So out for less than 6 months and it get a price drop of £125!! (Xbox one £425 no game then £349.99 plus a £50 game free in April) I'm not a fanboy but how can anyone with a straight face think that the xbone has a long term future.

I think long term the Xbone has a better future than anyone is likely to admit to, it's just going to take some serious pain on Microsoft's part to get there.

Way back in 2006-7 the PS3 had a pretty disastrous first year too, between the price, the Mk1 Sixaxis controller and a lot of multi platforms working better on 360 thanks to CELL architecture every press release from Sony had the air of a man staring blankly into space repeating there is nothing wrong over and over. Price cuts and third parties steadily getting a handle on it got it back into shape (and ahead of the 360 on sales now).

This kind of price cut is just what Xbone needs, it has to be cheaper than the PS4 to be competitive. Once it is it has an advantage to Jor Average who buys Fifa and Cod, he only cares that it's cheaper and it works.

What's most important to Microsoft now is to get those boxes into people's living rooms, any damage from price cuts is short term and drives sales of games, which helps much more long term.

Captcha: change yourself, see, even the unfeeling machine agrees.

 

[Guy from the 80's]

For those saying that we've hit some sort of "graphical ceiling"...

Have you even seen a movie these past few years? CGI shows how far graphics can still go, we just need to make tech that can render that stuff in real time. We clearly haven't reached the ceiling, we've barely climbed out of the fucking basement.

This. And people seem to not know that there are huge differences but they are more subtle. We are approaching photo realism so despite there still being big leaps they wont be as noticeable as the 2d to 3d leap and so on not to mention it happens gradually.

 

[Jamash]

For those saying that we've hit some sort of "graphical ceiling"...

Have you even seen a movie these past few years? CGI shows how far graphics can still go, we just need to make tech that can render that stuff in real time. We clearly haven't reached the ceiling, we've barely climbed out of the fucking basement.

This. And people seem to not know that there are huge differences but they are more subtle. We are approaching photo realism so despite there still being big leaps they wont be as noticeable as the 2d to 3d leap and so on not to mention it happens gradually.

I can vouch for this.

I'm extemely impressed in the graphical leap from Forza 4 to Forza 5, but it's quite subtle and something you can't really notice on Youtube videos or in screenshots, but has to be witnessed first hand to really appreciate.

On the surface, the game looks very similar, because Forza 4 was already a great looking game and and Forza 5 continues that quality, but the subtle improvements to graphics which are actually a big leap are present, even if it's not very apparent at first glance.

One example is that now all the cars actually have windscreens, which reflect parts to the dashboard and light artefacts, another subtle change is that now tinted windows actually show the tint from inside the car, which is actually useless as it's distracting and obstructs your peripheral vision, but it's a graphical leap nonetheless.

The subtle graphical leap I've been most impressed with is the range of different textures and finishes you can paint your car in. Forza 4 just had normal gloss paint, gloss metallic paint and gloss two tone, but Forza 5 actually has a whole range of different finishes with their own textures that are rendered very realistically and look very impressive when you apply them to a car, then explore that 3D model with the camera and see all the subtle details in the the textures and see how each material behaves differently under the lights.

There's gloss, semi-gloss, matte paint, two-tone combinations in gloss, semi-gloss and matte, metal flake, polished carbon fiber and matte carbon fiber, polished or matte carbon-kevlar weave, aluminium, steel, brass and copper metal in polished, semi- polished and brushed metal effects, gold and chrome, wood grain and steel diamond plate, different camo patterns in polished and matte effect.

I expect that list of different finishes and textures is completely meaningless to most people and doesn't seem like anything special (and probably wouldn't even seem impressive on a video), but if you've got any idea of what those different materials look and behave like, and if you could see them being rendered photo-realistically in the game in 3D (rather than being flat textures that are 2D facsimiles of that material), then you would see that it is a subtle but progressive leap in the graphical prowess of the console, even if it it's only used for artistic purposes and has minimal impact on gameplay.

 

[josemlopes]

The Xbox One is in a better position than the Xbox 360 was at it's time, and the 360 made one hell of a recovery. Also, graphics never really improve all that much at the beginning of a generation.

Compare Dead Rising, an Xbox 360 exclusive released in 2006,

Spoiler

With Resident Evil 4, a Gamecube exclusive eventually ported to the PlayStation 2 released in 2005.

Spoiler

Not really disagreeing but that example is very bad, Resident Evil 4 was a very linear game with small enviorments, Dead Rising had big enviorments with a shit ton of characters on screen and interactive objects.

Thats like comparing the graphics of a soldier in Company of Heroes 2 with a soldier from Call of Duty 2

Spoiler

 

[Mr C]

I don't like the PS4 controller.

What don't you like about it? For me it is the best controller in years. I hated the dual shock and was so happy when they changed it. I think it's even better than the 360 pad. Haven't played on an Xbone yet, since M$ won't release it here until the end of the year

 

[tippy2k2]

I don't like the PS4 controller.

What don't you like about it? For me it is the best controller in years. I hated the dual shock and was so happy when they changed it. I think it's even better than the 360 pad. Haven't played on an Xbone yet, since M$ won't release it here until the end of the year

I don't like the little touchpad...thing in the controller. It seems incredibly needless since it seems to be used as a glorified extra D-Pad (that may change as developers figure stuff out to do with it but I can't think of anything I can't do with the controller that that thing would do better.

Also, I really don't like the L2 and R2 buttons. This is going to sound weird but...

Spoiler

You see how the L2 has that little...lip thing (like they wanted to make it a trigger and halfway through they changed their mind)? I hate that little lip thingy. It feels weird in my hand and I somehow managed to pinch myself with it the few times I've used that controller.

If it helps, I don't like the Xbox One's controller either (the triggers are...heavier for lack of a better word and the bumpers are F'ing tiny as hell).

 

[Padwolf]

Optimism is a good thing, OP! Gaming itself is going to be fine, it's just a price drop, it's not the end of it all. Besides, since that price drop sales will probably go up, which means more Xbox Gold memberships to be bought and all the other joys that need paying for on the Xbox.

The console isn't in serious trouble. All is well.

 

[Something Amyss]

Note how with few exceptions the peaks and valleys always rise.

So it will always go up, except where it doesn't. That isn't always rising, and it doesn't prove your claimed correlation.

It's simple, you can't raise gas by large amounts and there is no alternative fuel, so whenever it raises that becomes the new acceptable standard for gas. Yes gas is one of those things that we somewhat see harvested in the news, so the price does go up due to real world concerns, but the profit margin is insane and they raise it for fun and bad weather.

I'm just saying, consoles have pidgin holed themselves into believing that there isn't a viable alternative market, that their moves are always right via virtue of their movement.

What is the alternative movement?

 

[remnant_phoenix]

So out for less than 6 months and it get a price drop of £125!! (Xbox one £425 no game then £349.99 plus a £50 game free in April) I'm not a fanboy but how can anyone with a straight face think that the xbone has a long term future.

But its more than that this gen has been without a doubt the most underwhelming of all time. Not one single game has shown a significant leap. And dont get me that crap about 'give this generation time to shine. Snes, Ps1 and PS2 all had early release games that showed that wow factor but not one single game on PS4, Xbox one or even the almighty PC has shown ANYTHING that has caused any jaws to drop.

So where do we go from here, I really don't know where gaming is gonna go do you guys? for the first time in gaming history I honestly believe we have hit the ceiling.

Honestly though, what do people expect? Graphics aren't going to be huge leaps anymore. We have hit the wall in diminishing returns. Games look better, but its really better lighting, textures and such that are advancing, and its not enough of a change to be WOWed. Its not the fault of console manufacturers, its the fault of our eyes.

Its also why I think the VR and AR HMDs are going to be the future of gaming, rather than the same "console arms race" that has dominated the industry since its birth. If graphics are hitting the wall of diminishing returns or whatever, then we need to find a new path to be wowed in. And IMO that path is the Oculus Rift and countless other HMDs that will find their way to market.

Or we need stop looking so strongly for "wow" factor and start looking for substance. That is to say, better content. Style will come and go, but true substance is timeless. This is why many older games with outdated graphics can still be compelling to this day.

 

[Joos]

Consoles has lost their way. It used to be that the console was the arcady option for people who didn't want the hassle to mess around with computers, load times and patches. Just chuck the cartridge in (after blowing the dust away from the connectors off course) and off you went, with your stable, bug free and hopefully fun game.

Last week, my friend wanted to show me Titanfall on his brand new Xbox one. My mate was very excited to show it to me and mentioned how much fun he'd had with it the past few days. As he went to turn the console on, the xbox chirpily announced that there was a required patch for the OS that was required. So we had a coffee for the 20-30 minutes it took to download and install the new OS files.

We slotted the disk in and prepared for some intense mech battles. But no. Titanfall required a patch as well. However, it seemed that the patch for the game was being downloaded from a different server or the network was being absolutely mangled. The download stalled on several occasions, even though we restarted both the xbox and his aDSL modem a few times.

After a cup of tea and about an hour of waiting, we lost patience and went out for a beer instead. Personally, I couldn't care less, but my friend was a bit grumpy and disillusioned about the convenience factor of consoles that he typically mentions when we talk about the pros and cons comparing computers and consoles. I didn't say anything since I didn't want to rub salt in his fresh wounds and we both reminisced about simpler, unconnected days of gaming years past.

 

[Joos]

snip

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Or we need stop looking so strongly for "wow" factor and start looking for substance. That is to say, better content. Style will come and go, but true substance is timeless. This is why many older games with outdated graphics can still be compelling to this day.

I hear what you are saying, but art-style as well as tech still carries a heavy burden when it comes to the appreciation of older games. For example, I discovered Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines rather late, however, it was just borderline from being apprehensively ugly. There are a few mods that help with bug fixes and content, but if there ever was a game that could do with a community based HD texture pack to stay fresh, this is definitely one of them.
In that same wave, I started playing both System Shock (1 & 2) as well as the original Deus Ex (I really liked Human Revolution), however, the (by today's standard) crappy graphics just made it impossible for me to appreciate all the good things about the games; like a barrier separating me from my fun.
However, for some reason, the old pixel art graphics of Master of Orion 2 as well as UFO: Enemy Unknown still looks perfectly fine.

 

[Joos]

For those saying that we've hit some sort of "graphical ceiling"...

Have you even seen a movie these past few years? CGI shows how far graphics can still go, we just need to make tech that can render that stuff in real time. We clearly haven't reached the ceiling, we've barely climbed out of the fucking basement.

Yea, this is so true, which makes it doubly insulting that both consoles chose to utilise such limpwristed GPU's. It's going to hold everybody back (PC as well) since everyone will be designing for the smallest denominator.

 

[Eve Charm]

Eh the one really isn't in any more trouble then the other consoles are at this point. There just isn't enough games coming fast enough for people and E3 hasn't hit yet to say " Hey guys here's what's coming. Basically for the last few months other then titanfall the only things we could push was like watchdog and destiny, and now still watch dog and destiny.

 

[neppakyo]

Didn't they put a second processor in the Xbone, somewhat undercutting both the argument and the example of Ryse?

No they didn't add another "processor". That would of required a complete redesign of the mainboard. What they did was overclock the CPU to make it come near the speed of the PS4's CPU.

Basically MS used the "Budget" AMD Jaguar with slower CPU speeds, and significantly slower GPU. The PS4's GPU is faster, and has nearly twice as many cores as the xbone. The PS4 is basically AMD Jaguar "Mide-level" entry.

And people thinking the graphics will get better are right and wrong. They'll get a bit better, devs are used to programming for x86, so what you see now is basically it. They may write a bit of code for some tricks to help performance, but expect graphics to remain what you've seen or a bit better.

Optimization now for the consoles isn't improvement, more like scaling back on certain parts to maintain performance. Basically if you run your game in "ultra" mode and find it slows down, you switch to "High or Mid" Thats what devs are doing for the consoles now basically. The PS4 hardware wise is better, and needs less software tricks than the xbone.

 

[Vivi22]

And dont get me that crap about 'give this generation time to shine. Snes, Ps1 and PS2 all had early release games that showed that wow factor

Speaking as someone old enough to remember the release of these consoles, I can safely say that that isn't true for any except the SNES. It also wasn't true for the PS3 or 360.

The PSX didn't really start to take off in terms of games until more than six months later. Same goes for the PS2 which had it's first blockbuster title in March 2001, and the PS3 and 360 (and I don't really count Resistance as showing what the PS3 was capable of. It was a decent launch title, but that was it).

So basically, we're sitting at around the point where the majority of recent consoles start getting games that utilize the hardware and don't completely suck. Assuming we don't take a revisionist view of history that is.

 

[The White Hunter]

For those saying that we've hit some sort of "graphical ceiling"...

Have you even seen a movie these past few years? CGI shows how far graphics can still go, we just need to make tech that can render that stuff in real time. We clearly haven't reached the ceiling, we've barely climbed out of the fucking basement.

This is true but to push further the hardware costs are exponentially higher, it is incredibly pricey to build a machine that can render a fluid experience with the latest engines at 4K, even 2K is somewhat prohibitively expensive. I could maybe manage high settings at 2K on my £1200 rig, at 30 or so fps in most recent AAA games.

However the cieling is a fallacy, particularly at the level the current consoles run at, the issue is really balancing the cost of the hardware with the payoff, these things need to be affordable.

 

[The Random Critic]

Everyone's a critic, everyone wants to be one, everyone thinks they are one

Though it doesn't excuse the current gen console lack of backward compatibility XD [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-ps1-ps2-games-heading-to-ps4]