Xbox one in serious trouble!

[josemlopes]

The Xbox One is in a better position than the Xbox 360 was at it's time, and the 360 made one hell of a recovery. Also, graphics never really improve all that much at the beginning of a generation.

Compare Dead Rising, an Xbox 360 exclusive released in 2006,

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With Resident Evil 4, a Gamecube exclusive eventually ported to the PlayStation 2 released in 2005.

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Not really disagreeing but that example is very bad, Resident Evil 4 was a very linear game with small enviorments, Dead Rising had big enviorments with a shit ton of characters on screen and interactive objects.

Thats like comparing the graphics of a soldier in Company of Heroes 2 with a soldier from Call of Duty 2

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[Mr C]

I don't like the PS4 controller.

What don't you like about it? For me it is the best controller in years. I hated the dual shock and was so happy when they changed it. I think it's even better than the 360 pad. Haven't played on an Xbone yet, since M$ won't release it here until the end of the year

 

[tippy2k2]

I don't like the PS4 controller.

What don't you like about it? For me it is the best controller in years. I hated the dual shock and was so happy when they changed it. I think it's even better than the 360 pad. Haven't played on an Xbone yet, since M$ won't release it here until the end of the year

I don't like the little touchpad...thing in the controller. It seems incredibly needless since it seems to be used as a glorified extra D-Pad (that may change as developers figure stuff out to do with it but I can't think of anything I can't do with the controller that that thing would do better.

Also, I really don't like the L2 and R2 buttons. This is going to sound weird but...

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You see how the L2 has that little...lip thing (like they wanted to make it a trigger and halfway through they changed their mind)? I hate that little lip thingy. It feels weird in my hand and I somehow managed to pinch myself with it the few times I've used that controller.

If it helps, I don't like the Xbox One's controller either (the triggers are...heavier for lack of a better word and the bumpers are F'ing tiny as hell).

 

[Padwolf]

Optimism is a good thing, OP! Gaming itself is going to be fine, it's just a price drop, it's not the end of it all. Besides, since that price drop sales will probably go up, which means more Xbox Gold memberships to be bought and all the other joys that need paying for on the Xbox.

The console isn't in serious trouble. All is well.

 

[Something Amyss]

Note how with few exceptions the peaks and valleys always rise.

So it will always go up, except where it doesn't. That isn't always rising, and it doesn't prove your claimed correlation.

It's simple, you can't raise gas by large amounts and there is no alternative fuel, so whenever it raises that becomes the new acceptable standard for gas. Yes gas is one of those things that we somewhat see harvested in the news, so the price does go up due to real world concerns, but the profit margin is insane and they raise it for fun and bad weather.

I'm just saying, consoles have pidgin holed themselves into believing that there isn't a viable alternative market, that their moves are always right via virtue of their movement.

What is the alternative movement?

 

[remnant_phoenix]

So out for less than 6 months and it get a price drop of £125!! (Xbox one £425 no game then £349.99 plus a £50 game free in April) I'm not a fanboy but how can anyone with a straight face think that the xbone has a long term future.

But its more than that this gen has been without a doubt the most underwhelming of all time. Not one single game has shown a significant leap. And dont get me that crap about 'give this generation time to shine. Snes, Ps1 and PS2 all had early release games that showed that wow factor but not one single game on PS4, Xbox one or even the almighty PC has shown ANYTHING that has caused any jaws to drop.

So where do we go from here, I really don't know where gaming is gonna go do you guys? for the first time in gaming history I honestly believe we have hit the ceiling.

Honestly though, what do people expect? Graphics aren't going to be huge leaps anymore. We have hit the wall in diminishing returns. Games look better, but its really better lighting, textures and such that are advancing, and its not enough of a change to be WOWed. Its not the fault of console manufacturers, its the fault of our eyes.

Its also why I think the VR and AR HMDs are going to be the future of gaming, rather than the same "console arms race" that has dominated the industry since its birth. If graphics are hitting the wall of diminishing returns or whatever, then we need to find a new path to be wowed in. And IMO that path is the Oculus Rift and countless other HMDs that will find their way to market.

Or we need stop looking so strongly for "wow" factor and start looking for substance. That is to say, better content. Style will come and go, but true substance is timeless. This is why many older games with outdated graphics can still be compelling to this day.

 

[Joos]

Consoles has lost their way. It used to be that the console was the arcady option for people who didn't want the hassle to mess around with computers, load times and patches. Just chuck the cartridge in (after blowing the dust away from the connectors off course) and off you went, with your stable, bug free and hopefully fun game.

Last week, my friend wanted to show me Titanfall on his brand new Xbox one. My mate was very excited to show it to me and mentioned how much fun he'd had with it the past few days. As he went to turn the console on, the xbox chirpily announced that there was a required patch for the OS that was required. So we had a coffee for the 20-30 minutes it took to download and install the new OS files.

We slotted the disk in and prepared for some intense mech battles. But no. Titanfall required a patch as well. However, it seemed that the patch for the game was being downloaded from a different server or the network was being absolutely mangled. The download stalled on several occasions, even though we restarted both the xbox and his aDSL modem a few times.

After a cup of tea and about an hour of waiting, we lost patience and went out for a beer instead. Personally, I couldn't care less, but my friend was a bit grumpy and disillusioned about the convenience factor of consoles that he typically mentions when we talk about the pros and cons comparing computers and consoles. I didn't say anything since I didn't want to rub salt in his fresh wounds and we both reminisced about simpler, unconnected days of gaming years past.

 

[Joos]

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Or we need stop looking so strongly for "wow" factor and start looking for substance. That is to say, better content. Style will come and go, but true substance is timeless. This is why many older games with outdated graphics can still be compelling to this day.

I hear what you are saying, but art-style as well as tech still carries a heavy burden when it comes to the appreciation of older games. For example, I discovered Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines rather late, however, it was just borderline from being apprehensively ugly. There are a few mods that help with bug fixes and content, but if there ever was a game that could do with a community based HD texture pack to stay fresh, this is definitely one of them.
In that same wave, I started playing both System Shock (1 & 2) as well as the original Deus Ex (I really liked Human Revolution), however, the (by today's standard) crappy graphics just made it impossible for me to appreciate all the good things about the games; like a barrier separating me from my fun.
However, for some reason, the old pixel art graphics of Master of Orion 2 as well as UFO: Enemy Unknown still looks perfectly fine.

 

[Joos]

For those saying that we've hit some sort of "graphical ceiling"...

Have you even seen a movie these past few years? CGI shows how far graphics can still go, we just need to make tech that can render that stuff in real time. We clearly haven't reached the ceiling, we've barely climbed out of the fucking basement.

Yea, this is so true, which makes it doubly insulting that both consoles chose to utilise such limpwristed GPU's. It's going to hold everybody back (PC as well) since everyone will be designing for the smallest denominator.

 

[Eve Charm]

Eh the one really isn't in any more trouble then the other consoles are at this point. There just isn't enough games coming fast enough for people and E3 hasn't hit yet to say " Hey guys here's what's coming. Basically for the last few months other then titanfall the only things we could push was like watchdog and destiny, and now still watch dog and destiny.

 

[neppakyo]

Didn't they put a second processor in the Xbone, somewhat undercutting both the argument and the example of Ryse?

No they didn't add another "processor". That would of required a complete redesign of the mainboard. What they did was overclock the CPU to make it come near the speed of the PS4's CPU.

Basically MS used the "Budget" AMD Jaguar with slower CPU speeds, and significantly slower GPU. The PS4's GPU is faster, and has nearly twice as many cores as the xbone. The PS4 is basically AMD Jaguar "Mide-level" entry.

And people thinking the graphics will get better are right and wrong. They'll get a bit better, devs are used to programming for x86, so what you see now is basically it. They may write a bit of code for some tricks to help performance, but expect graphics to remain what you've seen or a bit better.

Optimization now for the consoles isn't improvement, more like scaling back on certain parts to maintain performance. Basically if you run your game in "ultra" mode and find it slows down, you switch to "High or Mid" Thats what devs are doing for the consoles now basically. The PS4 hardware wise is better, and needs less software tricks than the xbone.

 

[Vivi22]

And dont get me that crap about 'give this generation time to shine. Snes, Ps1 and PS2 all had early release games that showed that wow factor

Speaking as someone old enough to remember the release of these consoles, I can safely say that that isn't true for any except the SNES. It also wasn't true for the PS3 or 360.

The PSX didn't really start to take off in terms of games until more than six months later. Same goes for the PS2 which had it's first blockbuster title in March 2001, and the PS3 and 360 (and I don't really count Resistance as showing what the PS3 was capable of. It was a decent launch title, but that was it).

So basically, we're sitting at around the point where the majority of recent consoles start getting games that utilize the hardware and don't completely suck. Assuming we don't take a revisionist view of history that is.

 

[The White Hunter]

For those saying that we've hit some sort of "graphical ceiling"...

Have you even seen a movie these past few years? CGI shows how far graphics can still go, we just need to make tech that can render that stuff in real time. We clearly haven't reached the ceiling, we've barely climbed out of the fucking basement.

This is true but to push further the hardware costs are exponentially higher, it is incredibly pricey to build a machine that can render a fluid experience with the latest engines at 4K, even 2K is somewhat prohibitively expensive. I could maybe manage high settings at 2K on my £1200 rig, at 30 or so fps in most recent AAA games.

However the cieling is a fallacy, particularly at the level the current consoles run at, the issue is really balancing the cost of the hardware with the payoff, these things need to be affordable.

 

[The Random Critic]

Everyone's a critic, everyone wants to be one, everyone thinks they are one

Though it doesn't excuse the current gen console lack of backward compatibility XD [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-ps1-ps2-games-heading-to-ps4]

 

[Requia]

Gaming itself is going to be fine. Yes, there is a ceiling graphically that we're going to hit to make (while remaining cost effective that is) but I don't think that's going to be a problem. Hell, if anything, that's going to be a great thing since innovation through a slightly shinier engine will no longer cut it.

That said, I think consoles period are in trouble (and before the pitch forks come out, anyone here who has followed me at all (for some reason you strange strange person) that I am 100% console gamer). Sony/Nintendo are a bit less susceptible to what I'm about to say but they are not invincible to it either.

At this point, a console seems to be becoming much more PCified. As in, they are getting a lot of the negatives (like constant patches and updating being needed) with none of the positives (like much cheaper pricing and the ability to use whatever control system you want). Really, exclusives are the only thing keeping consoles off of life support (which is a HUGE positive so don't get me wrong; consoles are not going anywhere this generation at least).

I'm at my own crossroads with it where I want to continue with my console ways but I don't like the Xbox One (no thanks Kinect) and I don't like the PS4 controller. As I stated, I think they're all safe from elimination...this generation. In a decade? The console as we know it may be dead.

Well, console shave one other thing going for them, they limit how often devs can require hardware upgrades from consumers. If I buy a console I know new games will work until the console maker releases a new version. But as we approach the graphics ceiling you mentioned becomes more of an issue and devs have less motive to up the hardware requirements on PC (or if the Steambox has the side effect of creating standardized PC gaming hardware for devs to target) it'll lose that edge too.

 

[Gearran]

Oh dear, it's another "[X] games are dying! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES" thread. I guess that's the flag to show that we really are into a new console generation. I'm going to sound old for saying this, but people have been doing this for about as long as consoles have been around (which actually predates the internet, if you can believe it). Every single time a new wave of consoles hits the market, the doom-criers come out of their hideyholes and shout that this part or that part of the gaming community is DOOOOOOOO*gasp*OOOMED!

Beh, whatever. I'll throw my two cents in (though I expect change back).

I for one look forward for the time when we hit the graphics ceiling. It's been a (console) generation or so since graphics became one of the major driving forces behind creating new games (yes, watching the graphics upgrade has been a fun pastime of the console evolution, but it shouldn't be a driving force of MUST PRODUCE NEW GAEMS), and I'm kind of tired of it. Graphics has never really been all that interesting to me - sure it's nice to see pretty pictures, but they I don't see them as a particularly big deal as far as the overall gameplay is concerned (one of my favorite games of all time is Earthbound, for crying out loud). However, a lot of AAA studios have been kind of skating by on really pretty graphics to get away with some sub-par (or, at best, mediocre) gameplay; I look forward to the graphics ceiling coming around to hopefully put a stop to this. Maybe then we can get back to games that are interesting for their story and gameplay, and not just because the game makes the pretty pictures on the screen.

 

[Requia]

For those saying that we've hit some sort of "graphical ceiling"...

Have you even seen a movie these past few years? CGI shows how far graphics can still go, we just need to make tech that can render that stuff in real time. We clearly haven't reached the ceiling, we've barely climbed out of the fucking basement.

But those increases in graphics make the game more expensive to develop as well. We've already hit a point *last* gen where 5 million sales was insufficient for a high graphics game. While the current methods (high quality models/textures mechanically scaled back to meet the hardware) allow a certain increase in fidelity without increasing cost the current ultra settings in PC gaming represent the probable ceiling.

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

Your Xbone price drop aside (which in my opinion doesn't really count as that POS is overpriced due to the Albatross that is the Kinect anyway) the two 'next gen' consoles are doing as well as to be expected.

This all the way! I think the price drop is in large part due to Microsoft's boneheaded decision to force the Kinect into the XB1 package, which brought their price up so high that it couldn't hope to compete with PS4. The effect was like choosing between a Bang & Olufsen sound system or a Sony system when you have a budget of only $150.

 

[Kerethos]

I'm going to repeat what a lot of people seem to be saying: It's far too early to say anything about what the current generation of consoles will be able to bring to the table, at this time. Release titles are always going to be just a small step ahead of what the previous generation had to offer, and with PC-cross platforming it's more than likely the first rounds of games will basically look like medium/high spec PC games in terms of graphics.

The release games for the 360 and the PS3 did not look much better than the last games for the Xbox or PS2, and it took years for games to really push their systems to the max. Given time I'm sure the current generation of consoles will offer impressive games, but for now I see no compelling reason to invest in a new system or cry the death of consoles.

 

[pilouuuu]

Well, I think XBone has been doomed since its inception because it was devised as a Big Brother machine, full of Draconian always on-line DRM. There was an outrage and Microsoft had to tune down the idiotic features, so it is not a complete failure.

But the problem is that its technology is outdated by the time it was released. It wouldn't be such a big problem if the thing had some good games, but most of its big games are also on the X360, so what's the point on "updating"? You'd be better off with a more powerful system like the PS4, but that console also has the same games from previous generation.

That leaves the Wii U as the only console worth having alongside a PC, as while it's less powerful than the others it's different enough from a PC, having unique and very fun games and an unique control system.

PC is the way to go. 4K, triple-monitor gaming, better sound, better performance, modding, a higher quantity of cheaper and more varied games. In the future we'll get better physics and maybe even raytracing, which will make it really hard for consoles to keep up.

This is really the PC generation!