Xbox One's Frame Rate: Kid Rejected, Mother Approved

[ZippyDSMlee]

Only crack addled twitch players care about the 30/60 issue...now it drops in frame rates while player then thats a whole other can of worms.

I knew I should have invested in the crack market because there are a lot of people that care about fps the same way we care about resolution.

Here's a gaming comparison of frame rates. [http://www.gamespot.com/videos/reality-check-do-we-need-60-fps-on-ps4-and-xbox-on/2300-6415658/]

Higher framerates improve reactivity/fluidity of gameplay. Also, unlike with video, each frame in a video game is rendered perfectly without motion blur. In regular ol' video if you pause the screen when motion is happening you get blur. This difference in smoothness is why you can much more easily tell a difference during gameplay compared to the different in video.

As that video also points out by referencing actual research into the difference of frame rates [http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~claypool/papers/fr-rez/], they found that the gamers playing in 60 fps demonstrated better performance AND more enjoyment of the game. Consider that last bit for a moment. Higher frame rates can actually help us enjoy the games we play more. Perhaps the brain just doesn't have to work as hard to ignore the problems it detects in lower frame rates.

If you don't care about the 30/60 issue, then perhaps you're merely misinformed. Have you done any testing between the two with yourself? It's convenient to be able to dismiss other people's concerns or opinions as crack addled but that's an awfully close minded way to approach larger topics. Try to be more open minded to the possibility that it's not just mob mentality that's creating an issue where one doesn't exist. Mob mentality usually just blows things out of proportion but doesn't usually create an issue where none exists. It's insulting to everyone when your response to dissenters from your opinion is just that there must be wrong with them.

Up to a point then its superfluous which most of it is so meh I'd rather have a good game that shudders that dose not hold your hand or has shallow mechanics for the sake of pushing sales but then neither system offers much of that. Its funny MS went with a awkward cache/ramm setup that limits the ease of developing games for it ala the PS3 and sony went in the other direction to ensure ease of development. Lack of BWC has pretty much made the PC more worth my money so I am enjoying the kiddie console wars from the sidelines this go around. I was WII/360 mostly due to the 360 games being cheaper but still got a PS3 just not seeing much worth this go around other than the who has a bigger peter contest MS and Sony do. Gotta admit Sony got MS good the only thing I see pushing the Xbone past them is full 360 emulation and thats iffy at best so unless there is a huge jump making software run better on the Xbone its going to be stuck in 2nd place, I guess thats better than the WII U who can't get games made for it. ANd I am rambling so I will stop now LOL

 

[Darth_Payn]

Honest question - do images such as the one in the last panel actually make people laugh? Not being snarky, here; I'm genuinely curious.

Cause to be honest, that type of stuff just makes me sad.

Maybe he's projecting some of his issues into this strip; like he has a physically fit doctor brother who his mom loves just as much as* "that boy who makes that comic on the Internet two days a week".


*Obvious Lie

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

30fps is fine, its only with slow down when the screen gets crowded when its shit. Again, for me, prefer a great 30fps game than a shitty 60fps game. The fps aspect is the last thing to whine about.

 

[w23eer]

That, and The Stick of Truth. An art style that stylized would just look weird at a higher framerate.

I don't buy it. Why would it look weird? Why do you assume 30 fps looks better on something?

Because Matt, Trey and Obsidian wanted the game 'to look like you were playing a South Park Episode' janky animations, construction paper art-style and low FPS in all.

FPS wouldn't affect how janky it looks if it was deliberately animated to be janky - the construction paper art style would be preserved no matter how high the FPS is. The most you could say is that 60fps would be pointless with a South Park - esque art style.

EDIT: I just wanna say that I, and most people I know as far as I'm aware, use the words "ketchup" and "red sauce" interchangeably. That is all.

 

[Lightknight]

Up to a point then its superfluous which most of it is so meh I'd rather have a good game that shudders that dose not hold your hand or has shallow mechanics for the sake of pushing sales but then neither system offers much of that.

Sure, but why not have both? You're only complaining about the quality of games which really doesn't matter if you are already playing first person shooters or any significant AAA first person games (or third person games). If you only play indie games that don't require much processing at all then it simply won't matter to you but will to anyone else. However, the idea is that on one console (PS4) you get the same game at a higher FPS (aka, proven to be more enjoyable than lower fps) while on the other (XBO) you get the same game on a lower FPS.

As such, one is better than the other and pretending like it isn't is a momparison. When the XBO ends up having enough games worth getting or makes a legitimate argument for the kinect 2 then I'll likely end up buying it too. But any cross-console game will be purchased on the ps4.

Its funny MS went with a awkward cache/ramm setup that limits the ease of developing games for it ala the PS3 and sony went in the other direction to ensure ease of development. Lack of BWC has pretty much made the PC more worth my money so I am enjoying the kiddie console wars from the sidelines this go around.

I've got a powerful PC and have a ps4. The consoles always double as a media center for me so I was happy to upgrade from my PS3 and 360 consoles. Besides, $400 was a steal compared to what I spent on my PC. Don't get me wrong, my PC is more powerful but the generation is going to be choked by the consoles so being much more powerful just means prettier graphics in an already beautiful generation (heck, I thought the 7th generation already made it to the other side of the uncanny valley. Certainly high on the up-slope at least). So $400 and guaranteed (if popular) to be supported for the entire generation is all you need.

That being said, there are simply some games I prefer to play on the console and some games I prefer to play on the PC. At the moment, I wouldn't say either are "better". The price of the games on PC are comparable to the price of the games on the ps4 unless I wait for several months. It was also like pulling teeth to figure out how to put my first pc together so I certainly understand people going console even if I'm now perfectly capable of pc building without gnashing of teeth.

I was WII/360 mostly due to the 360 games being cheaper but still got a PS3 just not seeing much worth this go around other than the who has a bigger peter contest MS and Sony do. Gotta admit Sony got MS good the only thing I see pushing the Xbone past them is full 360 emulation and thats iffy at best so unless there is a huge jump making software run better on the Xbone its going to be stuck in 2nd place, I guess thats better than the WII U who can't get games made for it. ANd I am rambling so I will stop now LOL

I enjoyed the ps3 exclusive titles a lot more than I did the few 360 titles that were exclusive. That's why I went PS4. That the hardware is more powerful and cheaper certainly didn't hurt the decision. So far I've been pretty happy with my decision. I'd like to see some more games over the next year or so but I remember this sort of lull in nearly every console launch that has ever existed. This time, at least, I have a huge backlog of games from the 7th generation that still deserve my time.

I do not generally include the Wii in my discussions of gaming.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

snip

Sure, but why not have both? You're only complaining about the quality of games which really doesn't matter if you are already playing first person shooters or any significant AAA first person games (or third person games). If you only play indie games that don't require much processing at all then it simply won't matter to you but will to anyone else. However, the idea is that on one console (PS4) you get the same game at a higher FPS (aka, proven to be more enjoyable than lower fps) while on the other (XBO) you get the same game on a lower FPS.

As such, one is better than the other and pretending like it isn't is a momparison. When the XBO ends up having enough games worth getting or makes a legitimate argument for the kinect 2 then I'll likely end up buying it too. But any cross-console game will be purchased on the ps4.

Point taken, just an FYI I am mostly taking easy jabs at the whole debate but thats a given.

I'm not much of an indie gamer they've not got to a solid quality standard on the other hand AAA games are getting stupid, I tend to enjoy the quirky A-C games a bit more a good bit of the time.

For me it tends to be all about the games can you can't have the best games without owning all the systems but I do tend to shoot for the cheapest first, picked up 2 60GB ps3's for 500$ when the 80GB non BWC units came out.

I've got a powerful PC and have a ps4. The consoles always double as a media center for me so I was happy to upgrade from my PS3 and 360 consoles. Besides, $400 was a steal compared to what I spent on my PC. Don't get me wrong, my PC is more powerful but the generation is going to be choked by the consoles so being much more powerful just means prettier graphics in an already beautiful generation (heck, I thought the 7th generation already made it to the other side of the uncanny valley. Certainly high on the up-slope at least). So $400 and guaranteed (if popular) to be supported for the entire generation is all you need.

That being said, there are simply some games I prefer to play on the console and some games I prefer to play on the PC. At the moment, I wouldn't say either are "better". The price of the games on PC are comparable to the price of the games on the ps4 unless I wait for several months. It was also like pulling teeth to figure out how to put my first pc together so I certainly understand people going console even if I'm now perfectly capable of pc building without gnashing of teeth.

I have a Good PC(looking to go 8 core 16gb ram this year running half right now with a gf 760 ),GC,WII,Saturn,N64,360,PS3,PS2,Dreamcast tho I mostly have 360 and PS2 games with a hand full of PS3/WII games lost most of my older collections long ago slowly trying to build them back up but emulation has made some of that pointless. I finished Dragon Quest 8 on PCSX2 at 4X native resolution and it looked great. Trying to do Onimusha 3 and finally finish it,stoped playing 3 times due to horrid voice acting, but Skyrim has my soul right now. After that I think it be time for demon souls.

I enjoyed the ps3 exclusive titles a lot more than I did the few 360 titles that were exclusive. That's why I went PS4. That the hardware is more powerful and cheaper certainly didn't hurt the decision. So far I've been pretty happy with my decision. I'd like to see some more games over the next year or so but I remember this sort of lull in nearly every console launch that has ever existed. This time, at least, I have a huge backlog of games from the 7th generation that still deserve my time.

I do not generally include the Wii in my discussions of gaming.

I think the WII and PS3 had the best exclusives the 360 suffered from alot of clones games that should have been on pc 5-10 years ago tho I had gotten more 360 games mainly due to them being cheaper and most of the time having better textures also have to admit I just love the stiffness of the 360 analog sticks it kinda make me think twice about getting a PS3 title. Not being able to cheat on single player games IE code breaker/game shark/action reply to re-balance a game to my taste has slown me down, it might be burn out or old age but I am not playing like I use to then again I dunno if my attention span is better or worse than it was LOL.

I still have 15 PS2 games to play, acouple game cube games and around 20 PS360 games not to mention about 5 or 10 WII games.

Thanks for the discussion!Was thinking it turn into a drunken flame war my rambling tends to bring LOL.

 

[Lightknight]

I have a Good PC(looking to go 8 core 16gb ram this year running half right now with a gf 760 ),GC,WII,Saturn,N64,360,PS3,PS2,Dreamcast tho I mostly have 360 and PS2 games with a hand full of PS3/WII games lost most of my older collections long ago slowly trying to build them back up but emulation has made some of that pointless. I finished Dragon Quest 8 on PCSX2 at 4X native resolution and it looked great. Trying to do Onimusha 3 and finally finish it,stoped playing 3 times due to horrid voice acting, but Skyrim has my soul right now. After that I think it be time for demon souls.

With the Saturn and Dreamcast in your repertoire I'm not suprised you and consoles have an uneasy relationship.

Skyrim is an excellent game. Please note that it is one example of the type of game that would fit into this category of 60 FPS being better. I mean, let's be honest, PC is the only way to play Bethesda games if you have a pc capable of doing so. But if you only had a console you'd want to go with the one capable of playing the game better.

I think the WII and PS3 had the best exclusives the 360 suffered from alot of clones games that should have been on pc 5-10 years ago tho I had gotten more 360 games mainly due to them being cheaper and most of the time having better textures also have to admit I just love the stiffness of the 360 analog sticks it kinda make me think twice about getting a PS3 title. Not being able to cheat on single player games IE code breaker/game shark/action reply to re-balance a game to my taste has slown me down, it might be burn out or old age but I am not playing like I use to then again I dunno if my attention span is better or worse than it was LOL.

The ps4 controller is really nice. Easily the best controller I've ever held though the bar is low since I've been quite unhappy with controllers. I preferred the simplicity of the ps3 controllers and always felt like the 360 controllers were clunky comparatively. The difference in battery charge is also tremendously in the favor of PS3's controllers but the PS4 took a significant step back with the charge of the ps4 controller being significantly diminished. I don't know if that permanently glowing light that makes movie watching annoying is to blame or not but I'd much rather have had greater battery life than a share button or lights.

I still have 15 PS2 games to play, acouple game cube games and around 20 PS360 games not to mention about 5 or 10 WII games.

I've finally given up on my PS2 backlog. It's only a handful of games that are left but I can't justify the time to give them when other titles I want to play more exist. Also, I fear I've waited too long on some games as the same graphics that were ultra realistic back in the day are now painfully at the bottom of the uncanny valley.

Thanks for the discussion!Was thinking it turn into a drunken flame war my rambling tends to bring LOL.

Thank you too. I had no idea where it was going to go when the initial response was to a comment on crack addicted twitch players being the only people who care about such topics. To my surprise I get a pleasant conversation. Thanks.

 

[Fredvdp]

Framerate matters, not just because it makes the game look better, but also because it improves gameplay. I was once playing an online shooter at 60 fps and did quite well, then I started recording with Fraps, the framerate dropped to 30, and I couldn't hit a single enemy.

This is the best comparison I know of. A bit nauseating, but it shows the difference quite well: http://30vs60fps.com/

I made the switch to PC gaming last year and now I simply can't go back to low framerates. I get motion sick when I play an action game at 30 fps.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

With the Saturn and Dreamcast in your repertoire I'm not suprised you and consoles have an uneasy relationship.

Skyrim is an excellent game. Please note that it is one example of the type of game that would fit into this category of 60 FPS being better. I mean, let's be honest, PC is the only way to play Bethesda games if you have a pc capable of doing so. But if you only had a console you'd want to go with the one capable of playing the game better.

I forgot I also have a Xbox with 2 or 3 games I want to play. Really tho I go into the DC and Saturn later in thier life so I was not as burnt on them as I was going through 3 360's. Same for the Xbox I picked it up with 5 games for 119 years ago. Since I have had all the consoles I have seen the decline in mechanic depth/difficulty and rise in plays like a movie thoughtout the industry, it really started to get bad in the early 2000's now adays nearly every AAA game is dumbed down and holds your hand so you do not get lost or frustrated..... My main beef mechanics aside is level design I do not care for the boxy corridors they put you down.

Frankly ESO/FO3-4 will not be playable without mods.(still working to get my crappy FONV mod on teh nexus..just...skyrim....that and reinstalling os's twice make everything hellish) I found Oblivoin to be dumbed down a bit but good god Shyrim is piss easy it seems like they took 2 steps forward and 4 steps back.Since I fan out and explore bit by bit I level up fast had to tweak the skill growth,regen rates to less than half, made it harder by putting it on master difficulty(had to use Linda a couple times just to survive), I did "cheat" a bit by doubling the speed/range of arrows and rasieing their damages to almost twice as much,same for bolts but they are 30ish% faster than arrows.And that's globally not just for the player(can't wait till I get to a place with dearic arrows in use at 50 points of damage a hit that will not end well for me LOL) even with that dragons were untouchable by youself until level 25 or so and even then you need a few Atronach's to tank for you since 2 or 3 attacks and you are dead. Vampire attacks were hell for awhile had to reload alot due to them being scaled higher than most everything else but the guards. I got a few mods to expand the game some alchemy and magic to be precise had an enchantment mod but it forced you into 1 of 3 paths and since I tend to play once and be a multi skilled god character who dies a lot it annoyed me to know end so I went back to plain enchantment which is a shame as it's not as deep or well balanced.I'd mod the mod as it where but I am not that good at it LOL.

The ps4 controller is really nice. Easily the best controller I've ever held though the bar is low since I've been quite unhappy with controllers. I preferred the simplicity of the ps3 controllers and always felt like the 360 controllers were clunky comparatively. The difference in battery charge is also tremendously in the favor of PS3's controllers but the PS4 took a significant step back with the charge of the ps4 controller being significantly diminished. I don't know if that permanently glowing light that makes movie watching annoying is to blame or not but I'd much rather have had greater battery life than a share button or lights.

Ya but the sticks for me make the 360 superior for any game that requires precision aiming I just can not aim well in Resistance and such no matter where I set the sensitivity to but that's always been an issue with the dual shock format which to this day I think still has the superior layout just its analog sticks are way to loose.

I might break down and get a acouple 360 adapters and wired controllers for the PS3
, they make a 360 to ps3 pad but its all wired.

Still looking for a great PS3 pad have any recommendations?

If I recall correctly the PS4 has a sensor pad on the back of the controller have they gotten that past the gimmick stage? Dose it come in handy?

I've finally given up on my PS2 backlog. It's only a handful of games that are left but I can't justify the time to give them when other titles I want to play more exist. Also, I fear I've waited too long on some games as the same graphics that were ultra realistic back in the day are now painfully at the bottom of the uncanny valley.

I've got time while waiting on newer stuff to drop below 20$ I can finish out my PS2 backlog and do it on the PC where it tends to work well and looks great.

Thank you too. I had no idea where it was going to go when the initial response was to a comment on crack addicted twitch players being the only people who care about such topics. To my surprise I get a pleasant conversation. Thanks.

I try and keep things between the gutters but I am quick to do simple dumb one liners . LOL

 

[Atmos Duality]

Then how come I can always tell when a TV/monitor/projector is doing above 30 when there is no numbers to tell me?

Perhaps I have some innate bond with technology? Whoo!

No, the bond is with reason.
I'm able to identify framerate to a scary degree at a glance up to around 70FPS.

Granted, part of that is thanks to the olden days when I ran my games on a kitbash budget PC I built, and the other part designing and running benchmarks, but any gamer can at least qualitatively distinguish between two different framerates with minimal exposure.

A regular, non-techie gamer may not necessarily "notice" drops in framerate overtly...but their brain does (with apologies to Plinkett)
It makes a difference and is one of the few hard measurements of graphical fidelity available.
Once you go above 100 FPS, it becomes indistinguishable to the human brain (we have an internal "FPS cap" for obvious and practical reasons), but between 30 and ~70 it's a pretty noticeable jump.

I seriously don't understand why anyone keeps trying to assert that nobody can tell the difference...well, unless they're a shill trying to lie just to save face for their beloved company/product.