Winning or not winning Xcom was not my point. My point was that the sequel doesn't follow the narrative they have already established. And failing on first playthrough is an inconsequential point, unless they allow players to import saves.erttheking said:
So you consider getting PTSD fun, or a good use of your time? Or even playing a character that has to go through it? I can't imagine any reason why anyone would.Radoh said:
Alright so you started by saying all games are is a power fantasy, after pointing out that this is wrong you start arguing that there's no value in having a game that isn't a power fantasy. Great.008Zulu said:
Quite simply explain that what was repelled was an analytical force, sent to assess the planet. When the last signal sent was the capital ship's destruction the Xeno's response was essentially "welp, time to stop treating them with kid gloves." It was done loosely with C&C3 as well as the anime Tekkaman Blade. It's not a hard concept but instead we're getting the "all that effort you did? waste of time."Kajin said:
What is this narrative they're violating? The narrative established very early on that humanity was massively outgunned. XCOM only stopped the temple ship from destroying the entire planet out of a fluke. Really another one could've come in after that and onquered the entire race in a day.008Zulu said:
I wouldn't count anything by Telltale as a visual novel. More like movies with quick time events? Bah. Besides, you can't have played very many (or any at all) if you believe that they all come down to one singular ending. Most of them have at least several, not counting whatever fail states that cause a game over along the way. Some of them have dozens of possible endings. And every one of them picked out by what actions you pick in the story, as few and far in between as they may be. There are choices. There are victory states and failure states that result from those choices. That makes them games. I don't understand why you're failing to grasp such a simple concept.008Zulu said:
And criticize you can. Doesn't make that criticism correct. Or even rational. The devs state that the canonical end of the first game is that we lost. They could justify it using any one of a potential dozen possible ways and it would make narrative sense. Just because their narrative is not the same narrative you tell yourself when you play the game doesn't mean it lacks any sense. It just means you're upset that you're not getting it your way. Be as upset about it as you want, but it doesn't make your arguments valid.
Games are entertainment, entertainment is supposed to make you feel good. It's as simple as that.Radoh said:
I understand that some people want more out of games, but I would like to know why anyone would knowingly subject themselves to such horrors.Daftmau5 said:
Yes we were outgunned, and destroying the ship could be construed as a fluke. But the developers haven't given a reason as to why humanity lost beyond "we wanted to take the game in a different direction". There is no logical in game reason for the sudden change.erttheking said:
I would say, at most, I have played maybe 20 visual novel games. I will just come out and say that the format bores me. Nothing else to it than that. Maybe there are ones with branching stories, where choices do matter. None of the ones I have played have had such a mechanic (Some Japanese Dating sims do, but they are romance simulators, and don't qualify). This is going back some 20 years too, it's not like I just started gaming.Kajin said:
No, there is a logical reason. The aliens were holding back the entire time. And losing was still a very real option. If losing is a massive possibility if they're holding back, imagine if they give it their all.008Zulu said:
And you've yet to give me any sort of reason why your criticism is in any way valid. I would suggest that my criticism of you is more valid then your criticism of them.008Zulu said:
Entertainment is supposed to be entertaining. That does not automatically include "making you feel good". If it did a large amount of media would simply not exist, because "making you feel good" was never its goal.008Zulu said:
It's a form of emotional release. Experiencing an emotion in a safe, controlled environment can be thrilling. It's why roller coasters exist. It's why horror movies exist. It's why stories with heartbreaking events that leave you a crying wreck exist. People find emotions like horror and fear and sadness tantalizing, so they consume that which allows them to experience such emotions without actually being damaged by them.008Zulu said:
It's only a waste of time if you yourself consider your time wasted. Did you play the first game? Did you derive enjoyment from it? Did you feel your money was well spent and that you had a good time when you initially finished playing the game? Then your time wasn't at all wasted. If you think that "oh, you lose canonically" is enough to make all of that a waste of time then you must not actually enjoy playing games all that much.LordLundar said:
Since there very beginning, I have been calling them out on their lack of coherent storytelling. Go see for yourself.Kajin said:
Why would they hold back when their entire intention was to test the human race for potential?erttheking said:
Because they wanted to see if humanity had the gift and they couldn't do that if they just went in and steamrolled them all.008Zulu said:
Since the very beginning you've done naught but complain about a game with bare minimum story elements choosing to do a sequel where humanity ultimately lost. Further, you're doing so without even knowing any details of the story in said sequel, claiming it makes no sense when you lack all the necessary information that would allow you to make an actual, compelling argument. All the while you've been acting like the developers have wronged you on a personal level.008Zulu said:
From humanity won, to a sequel where humanity lost. This being the only information the developers have chosen to release at this point. Can you blame people for being confused?Kajin said:
Works in theory, but you don't find the strongest if all you do is throw crumpled up paper at them.erttheking said:
That's why the aliens escalated it. You ever wonder why they start out with just Sectoids and Floaters? Because they wanted to give humanity time to grow under pressure. Otherwise they would've just offloaded Chrysalids, Mutons and Sectopods on day one.008Zulu said: