Xcom Classic Difficulty Smells a Bit Like Bullshit. (Kinda Ranty)

[BloatedGuppy]

I will admit that the "panic" thing is one of the few things I didn't like about X-Com: EU. To me, it really killed the idea that these guys are supposed to be the most elite soldiers in the world when they suddenly panic and start shooting each other.

My best ever panic moment was in an escort mission. I'd successfully killed the last of the Thin Men, and was running the VIP to the Skyranger for pickup. One of my troopers, an Assault, had been poisoned in the final firefight. She had enough health to survive the poison, but it was still ticking. It ticked, and she went into a panic, and turned and one-shot the VIP. MISSION FAILED.

I don't like how the aliens get the "We have been discovered!" move, then get another move right in the middle of my turn.

Uh...they don't get a move "right in the middle of your turn". The "We have been discovered!" move is a handicap intended to make things easier for the human player. If they removed it, the game would become significantly harder to the point of being broken, and require a complete redesign from the ground up.

I don't use Heavies, at all. Even with a scope they have crappy accuracy. I always go 3 Support (which seem to have the best accuracy, except for snipers), 1 (perhaps 2) snipers and either one or two assault.

Heavies aren't for accuracy. You take Holo Targeting, Suppression, HEAT Ammo, Danger Zone, and Mayhem. Suppression never misses, confers tremendous offensive and defensive bonuses, and once you've got Mayhem does reliable (if minor) damage as well. A single Suppression can shred all a Cyberdisc's probes whilst doing significant damage to the disc itself. Hugely effective against Sectopods too. A second Heavy can follow the same build, or get kitted out with Rockets for wall breaches and AoE control.

They're not the best class in the game...that's the Squad Sight Sniper...but they're a close second.

Support is the worst all around class, although you more or less need one for battlefield recovery.

 

[Bleidd Whitefalcon]

snip

This might be depressing to you. There are plenty of people who have dumped the game because of what I'm about to say. I'm going to take something that Matthew Berry (ESPN Analysis) says about Fantasy Football that I think perfectly matches the attitude you need to play XCOM:

"At it's fundamental level, Fantasy Football XCOM is all about minimizing risk and giving yourself the best odds to win"

It's unfortunate that you got unlucky so early (or maybe it's fortunate; getting a TPK later in the game, you might as well shut it down since it's all over except for the mercy killings. Not to beat a dead horse but you can see that in my group as I just shut it all down after; see April 26th 2013 entry if you care to see the unraveling). That's what XCOM comes down to; set yourself up in the best possible position to succeed.

You are going to get unlucky; I guarantee it. Do you have the skill, knowledge, and yes, luck, to get past it? That's what separates commanders like me from people who are good at the game

Are you ever going to start that up again? 'Twas a fun little diversion

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Are you ever going to start that up again? 'Twas a fun little diversion

I am quoting you so you'll read this. Tee hee!

If he's smart, he'll wait until the expansion launches in under a month before doing the next edition of Tippy's Army.

 

[Bleidd Whitefalcon]

Are you ever going to start that up again? 'Twas a fun little diversion

I am quoting you so you'll read this. Tee hee!

If he's smart, he'll wait until the expansion launches in under a month before doing the next edition of Tippy's Army.

...I'm an idiot and had forgotten about that *facedesk* Thank you for reminding me, Sir Guppy *tips hat*

 

[Tallim]

Yeah it sucks, it happens and it's entirely possible that you aren't playing the tactical game as well as you should. The single best way to improve your game (and I suggested this to many of my friends who struggled with the game's many quirks) is to watch Beaglerush play on impossible.

Start here:

 

[Pink Gregory]

I don't like how the aliens get the "We have been discovered!" move, then get another move right in the middle of my turn.

I don't use Heavies, at all. Even with a scope they have crappy accuracy. I always go 3 Support (which seem to have the best accuracy, except for snipers), 1 (perhaps 2) snipers and either one or two assault.

If you download the XCOM toolboks mod, there's an option that actually removes the 'alien discovered' free move, if you like.

Oddly enough, I'm completely the opposite; I've only recently started a classic ironman playthrough, and I'm making use of explosives and LMGs more than anything else.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

The game has a weird difficulty curve and, yes, sometimes the RNG will just up and screw you over.

Do I have a story for you, sir.

I picked up this game because it sounded like something I could enjoy. I start on Easy, and then not 5 missions in did I get one of those "omfg-important" invasion missions where I had to go and kill the aliens or lose a member country. My starting squad of extremely rookie troops have so far reliably missed any enemy they've been shooting at if predicted at 50% chance or less, even with the enemy less than 5 squares in front of them (no, really, this happened with an assault rifle with neither in cover). Suffice to say I got buttsecks'd very hard by the Random Number God because it apparently felt I wasn't appreciating the cover-based clusterfuck enough and had to reload. Only -barely- made it by the skin of my teeth that time, but I think I lost one squadmate to those zombifying walker things.

Even on Easy it was disgustingly difficult, and FAKE difficult no less by the AI basically never ever missing me even if it had the same hit% as me, so I took to using a Trainer to boost 5 squad members and the Chinese dude. Cleared the story mode in maybe 2-3 days, ending was completely not worth it and permadeath should be a selectable option, not mandatory.

 

[veloper]

The game is easy, even on normal.

Some simple guidelines that you should have figured out yourself by now:
1 Don't advance any further if a couple soldiers already moved, because then most of your guys get to shoot before the aliens do.
2 Patience.
3 Snipers with squad sight in the back and assault guys with fast reflexes for spotting.
4 Don't be afraid to fall back with your spotters (after the snipers made their shots).

You don't even have to be clever with flanking and trying more advanced tactics. That stuff may get the novice player into even more trouble when he sucks at cleverness in tb-tactical games. Just rely on snipers and, esp. in the early game, grenades.

 

[tippy2k2]

judo

chop!

That actually was the plan. As many in here have stated, running on normal is relatively easy but I had a lot of trouble getting the balance between doing what was needed and making it fun for everyone on classic. I'm hoping that with the expansion, I could do the dry-run again since you guys get murdered a lot on normal just due to tippy ignorance

Hey, a purple zergling! Guppy, I command you to go hug it! We can't assume it's evil just because it looks evil, that's racist!...OH MY GOD! GUPPY!!!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Back OT: I don't know if it's been enough time (I mean...it's only been a day ) but have any of the tips helped or do you still feel that the RNG is malicious and evil. Well...either way you'll feel that but do you still feel it's bullshit?

 

[Robert Marrs]

I have to say after playing classic mode for about 10 hours it seems like their idea of making the game harder is to just screw you over time and time again and make the stronger enemies appear sooner. It does seem very cheap at times when you miss an 85% shot only to be have your best guy get killed by a sectoid who lands a critical hit from miles away. They don't seem to behave any differently tactically they just land more shots.

 

[DementedSheep]

I have to say after playing classic mode for about 10 hours it seems like their idea of making the game harder is to just screw you over time and time again and make the stronger enemies appear sooner. It does seem very cheap at times when you miss an 85% shot only to be have your best guy get killed by a sectoid who lands a critical hit from miles away. They don't seem to behave any differently tactically they just land more shots.

They do behave differently on classic. They try and flank more, use suppression, overwatch and special abilities more, some move around the map before you activate them rather than sitting in place (though this is apparently the cause of the teleport next to your guys bug)and they are less inclined to just follow you into an overwatch ambush. They get higher accuracy, health and crit chance as well of course and it's more weighted in their favor because its a higher difficulty than normal and there only so much you can do with AI. Missing an 85% shot and getting crit by a sectoid miles away is not cheap, its just bad luck. Most of the time when I've had one shoot at one of my guys from a long distance they miss even when my guy is in only half cover and not hunkered down. Players have tested whether the hit chances displayed are actually accurate and found that it was. You just remember the bad luck streaks more than when things go well.

I do wish rookies didn't panic so easily though. Last time I played I had a guy get injured, not even killed causing his nearest squadmate the freak and finish the job and another one to panic and shoot her. Maybe it wasn't actually panic? maybe it was some f-ed up love triangle revenge shooting. I've yet to have one of them shoot my VIP in the face thankfully. Oh well shit happens. Overcoming losses is part of the game.

 

[reidrokz]

I love how every time someone complains about XCOMs difficulty I feel like a god. Although I can feel every complaint you mentioned about impossible. I've beaten the game twice on classic ironman without any cheesy tricks, and yet I frequently die on the first mission of impossible. Seriously screw impossible.

I think there is a mod that gets rid of an invisible +10 aim (or crit can't remember) on classic (and +20 on impossible) to all aliens and that to me seems to be a god send.

 

[ERaptor]

The random factors are the Reason i only play the Game on normal. On Normal Difficulty, i feel the Game is being "fair" in balancing the apesh*ting Soldiers and "Im gonna miss that 90% Shot 3 times because FU*K you." by making the Enemies a tad less hard.

I started a Game on Classic, and after the third or fourth mission it was pretty much savescumming my way to Victory. Since that sucks, i stopped the playtrough after a while and started on Normal again.

The best example was i think the third or fourth mission, with an added Rookie to level up some reserve Meat Shields. I had an entire Squad of Floaters, 3 of the @$$holes no less, crit in a row, which send my Heavy dead to the ground and my Medic close to biting the Dust as well. The Sniper has a clear, open shot, i think it was over 80%, and misses. I heal the Medic, but the Floater gets another hit on him, whereafter he looses his sh*t, runs into the open and gets himself killed. The Rookie freaked out right afterwards and ran away as well, thankfully _not_ to the next open space beneath 3 killer Aliens. The Sniper then proceeded to miss AGAIN. I pulled the Mission off, but with 2 of my Main Guys gone, it was pretty much over and i had to retry. Im actually very glad i didnt see Mutons, i _dont_ wanna know what they do to you on Classic.

And it's not just the Mission-Gameplay, the overall Panic-stuff on classic just seemed unfair. I literally had to PRAY the next mission would hit a Country with a high Panic rating, so i could get it down a bit. It just seemed impossible to get enough Satellite support up to keep Panic at reasonable Levels. I had Country going crazy without the possibility of getting the damn panic down because the Missions send me everywhere else.

All in all, everything above Normal is a bit too much Dicerolling compared to actual tactical Combat. At least to me it felt that way.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I'll admit I thought the 'panic' mechanic was poorly executed in X-Com: EU, but sometimes I think people overemphasize the screwing over they get from the RNG.

There's a concept in psychology (I can't remember the name, if someone does feel free to fill me in) where we have this tendency to always remember bad things, but just accept good things as normal and don't pay attention to them, and thus don't remember them. So, for example, a person who's driving somewhere and is running late gets 45% green lights and 55% red lights, but they will only remember the red lights they got, and then they'll say "I have the worst luck, I got every damn red light possible!" even though it isn't true.

Likewise, I think people sometimes focus heavily on that one time their guys missed a 90% shot twice, but ignore all the times the aliens missed shots that they should have easily made on them.

 

[daveman247]

If you download the XCOM toolboks mod, there's an option that actually removes the 'alien discovered' free move, if you like.

Oddly enough, I'm completely the opposite; I've only recently started a classic ironman playthrough, and I'm making use of explosives and LMGs more than anything else.

Same, rocket launchers all day. I just want them dead, DEAD!


OT: Well thats the price you pay for having random elements in a game, sometimes it will just dick you over. I once lost my entire "A" team in one turn of mutons suddenly kicking ass every which way. Leaving me with the chuckle brigade. I had to take a long break from the game after that XD


On a similar note, people looking forward to the expansion in a month? Mechs and gene-soldiers sound great to me!

 

[Vegosiux]

I'm running two parallel playthroughs right now, Easy and Classic. One is for the achievements and just having fun with discovering everything, getting all the data entries and the like, and generally just cruising around, having fun and not giving much of a damn about the panic levels. I can even reasonably finish missions without anyone even getting injured. After I stopped giving a fuck about cover on terror missions, those Chryssalids maybe manage to can one or two civvies, and since my main sniper got In The Zone, she absolutely rips through those buggers. Luckily as they creep me out to no end.

The other is for when I feel like I want to be brutalized, chewed up, spit back out, pounded to dust and resurrected just to go through the experience again. And the memorial wall is going to run out of space. For how XCOM is supposed to be a covert organization, I'm totally going to blow my cover with recruiting all over the place. Think my turnover in new recruits has been at least two and a half satellites worth of cash...and there's no way I could have done without the Asian starting bonus, to at least get the OTS stuff I need to keep me effective at a discount.

Captcha: screw driver. Yeah, screw that guy!

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I think there is a mod that gets rid of an invisible +10 aim (or crit can't remember) on classic (and +20 on impossible) to all aliens and that to me seems to be a god send.

The balancing on Classic is fine to me. It feels right. Who cares if aliens are more accurate? They're aliens.

Impossible gets a bit ridiculous because of hit point thresholds though. It requires such insanely conservative tactics as to remove a lot of the fun from the game, and the bugginess renders it borderline unplayable. Then again, they did name it "Impossible", and not "Pleasingly Difficult".

 

[Vegosiux]

Impossible gets a bit ridiculous because of hit point thresholds though. It requires such insanely conservative tactics as to remove a lot of the fun from the game, and the bugginess renders it borderline unplayable. Then again, they did name it "Impossible", and not "Pleasingly Difficult".

They should name it "And this is why you shouldn't glorify war". Because to me, it simply seems the most brutally realistic portrayal of an invasion by technologically superior alines - you know jack squat about them, you need to adapt on the fly, constantly fight an uphill battle not only against aliens but also against the panic and chaos that results in global instability, and, in case of Ironman, there's no room for mistakes. You're not supposed to win it, as the odds are stacked so heavily against you in terms of a completely overpowered invader that expecting victory would be foolish. It's more a "humanity's last stand" scenario - it's a long shot in the dark, but it's the only shot you have. It's not a time for heroes and tales of glory, it's a bloody battle for survival in which, for once, we're at a huge disadvantage. Basically, you don't want to go into Impossible with the expectation of beating it, only with wondering how long you can last.

Actually, calling the difficulty "Enemy Unknown" would have worked too, as it goes well with the concept of having to learn to know thy enemy before you can fight them, yet need to fight them in order to learn to know them.

Needles to say, I like the game once I got into it.

 

[Vivi22]

Honestly, I haven't had a problem with Classic before. Is it tough? Sure. You've got to play smarter than on Normal, but Normal is pretty easy.

Classic is the closest thing to the original game in terms of difficulty while still being fair. And considering Normal is a difficulty that exists I don't think Classic is too over the top. It's quite fair, consistent, and an enjoyable challenge. If you'd really like to see unfair feel free to try the original game sometime. It's a great game, lot's of fun, but sometimes it just kicks you in the nuts for shits and giggles. You think you know terror missions? You've never seen real terror.

 

[aprildog18]

Likewise, I think people sometimes focus heavily on that one time their guys missed a 90% shot twice, but ignore all the times the aliens missed shots that they should have easily made on them.

One reason is maybe because your soldiers can get seriously injured or die from one really stupid lucky shot. And if enough of that happens, people die and then you're stuck with poopy soldiers. While if you crit OHKO someone with 5% hit chance and 1% crit, that's pretty cool, but there are still hundreds of other aliens to kill.

It's been a long time, but there was one time in XCOM iron-man where one of my soldier got mind controlled, and the controller baddie had like 5 health left (I'm not entirely sure about the situation but I'm pretty sure there was no safe way out). So I rushed in with my soldier and took two shots at him at 95% chance and missed both of them. Then the mind controlled guy crit and killed one of my other soldier.

Also another time I had a sniper on the roof with 2 health left and just finished all the bad guys on my screen, so I just hunkered down in the middle so no one could hit me if there were unrevealed enemies (escort mission). Then a Thin Men appeared on the tile next to my sniper and turned on overwatch. So if I killed him, I would die from poison, but if I moved, I would die from overwatch.